Never say Never

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11-06-2007, 20:22
Odin

Never say Never

I might have said I wouldnt turn back to MTW VI after MTW2, however I have tried multiple mods for MTW2 and to be blunt I cannot loose. I am thinking about reloading MTW VI on the new Pc and giving it a whirl again.

However I now have a the latest greatest windows XP, I also dont think i saved the XL mod. Anyway, anyone else out there come back to MTW from MTW2?

I just recall VI actually being a challenge, the AI was very unforgiving and there were even civil wars !.

Anyway I spent hundreds of hours playing MTW, and to be blunt its far was far more challenging then its successor.
11-06-2007, 23:22
Kaidonni

Re: Never say Never

Well, I never could get into M2TW. I just couldn't. I've always been annoyed at the sheer amount of information to be read. I started with MTW in 2002...but it sank into obscurity. Then, in 2004, RTW. Enjoyed it, but it ran it's course. Got MTW Gold Edition, and that's won my heart.

Tried M2TW...but it just didn't seem like it was working for me. Especially when the AI makes the most idiotic invasion choices. I mean, if Venice was serious about invading me, then they should have landed a full stack army right next to a poorly defended settlement of mine - and also considered the fact I have my own powerful full stack well within range! I mean, they blockaded me TWICE! And they, for some reason, didn't really want war...that's the separate military and diplomacy AI systems for you. :furious3:
11-07-2007, 01:16
PershsNhpios

Re: Never say Never

Well, I am attempting M.T.W. now after playing Europa Barbarorum, and before that, Rome: Total War with many mods for over a year or so.
I hope there is still an active multiplayer here.
I have seen the thread for reunions and such, however I would like to know whether this is still continuing?

I too, must say that I have never truly had to question stratagem whilst playing RTW, even the mods tended to simply change the appearance of things.
You could attempt to put all difficulties on Very Hard, however this would make things even more unbelievable, and ruin any fun at all.

I used to win any and all battles by having a cavalry of fifteen units led on the map by a young general, who would skirmish all opposition in a campaign, and weaken the enemy considerably, (Javelins, archery, and effortless charges on light Foot), and then the army following led by the king would defeat all survivors.

This should never of been an exploit - it was very real in Antiquity to have thousands of horse travel before the army to weaken the foe.

I am still waiting for my purchase of MTW Gold, but I plan to play it with the XL mod, and I think I will start a Polish campaign on Hard.

"First to fight!"
11-07-2007, 05:37
Mouzafphaerre

Re: Never say Never

.
Welcome back to Medieval from MiNO* ye infidels! ~D

* Medieval in Name Only
.
11-07-2007, 11:56
macsen rufus

Re: Never say Never

Welcome back to another prodigal, your indiscretions in dallying with the "2" will be overlooked :bow:

Seriously, after the disappointment of RTW I really wasn't tempted by M2TW - certainly not enough to buy a new PC capable of playing it...
11-07-2007, 12:42
Odin

Re: Never say Never

Quote:

Originally Posted by macsen rufus

Welcome back to another prodigal, your indiscretions in dallying with the "2" will be overlooked :bow:

Seriously, after the disappointment of RTW I really wasn't tempted by M2TW - certainly not enough to buy a new PC capable of playing it...

Never bothered with RTW not a time period I was intrested in. MTW2 sure has nice graphics, but its literally near impossible to loose. I just have to download XL again and I will return back to playing it regularly. MTW2 isnt without its strong points, but I never felt challenged.

All you need to do is spend 30-40 turns on economic upgrades spiced up with a few key military units and your unstoppable. The AI is simply silly as well, MTW had some less then stellar moments but if I left a province lightly defended thats where they would hit.
11-07-2007, 13:34
caravel

Re: Never say Never

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=79902

I was reflecting on your old thread from around 8-9 months ago. I still do think perhaps that had you gone through the whole RTW "experience" then M2TW may not have appealed to you.
11-07-2007, 14:11
Odin

Re: Never say Never

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caravel

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=79902

I was reflecting on your old thread from around 8-9 months ago. I still do think perhaps that had you gone through the whole RTW "experience" then M2TW may not have appealed to you.

Excellent link, I have grown far more argumentative in my tenor here at the org, thankfully there are several other sites in which to discuss the total war series.

However I do have one small item to offer, a very rare admission/event here on the totalwar.org forums.

I was wrong.

you had said all along that the evolution of MTW2 could be directly linked to RTW. You were right, I dont regret my choice to get MTW2 it is a beautiful game, yet within that beauty is a simplicity of execution that brings it away from the strategy genre of games.

STW for me was and is the best TW game i have ever played, the unified unit selection of factions allows for more balance. That said MTW VI with the XL mod has provided me with hundreds of hours of challenging game play (well far more challenging then MTW2).

I have had beautiful battles in MTW2, simply stunning visually but the outcome was never in question, I have never lost a game of MTW2 and completed it a few times. IN MTWVI I have lost games from civil war, to actual defeat on the battlefield.

Im am refreshed in my humility to admit that MTW VI is the superior game, and grateful that I retained my copies of it (and there is XL 3.0 :thumbsup: )
11-08-2007, 14:11
caravel

Re: Never say Never

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odin

Excellent link, I have grown far more argumentative in my tenor here at the org, thankfully there are several other sites in which to discuss the total war series.

However I do have one small item to offer, a very rare admission/event here on the totalwar.org forums.

I was wrong.

You weren't necessarily wrong, you had simply made up your own mind to try M2TW instead of listening to those that were possibly biased by their experiences of MTW. All in all I think you made the right decision as you've had many months of gameplay, a break from MTW and some experience of the newer second generation TW games. If you hadn't tried it then you would still be none the wiser.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odin

you had said all along that the evolution of MTW2 could be directly linked to RTW. You were right, I dont regret my choice to get MTW2 it is a beautiful game, yet within that beauty is a simplicity of execution that brings it away from the strategy genre of games.

Unfortunately it does seem that M2TW is by all accounts an RTW mod. Many of the same problems that plagued RTW still plague M2TW and now it seems that a new patch for Kingdoms is not forthcoming. Personally I feel sorry for those that have bought it, as they will continue to have to cope with it's bugginess (not to mention SecuRom) unsupported. It is possible that we'll see a repeat of the community based bug fixer such as Player1's for RTW/BI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odin

STW for me was and is the best TW game i have ever played, the unified unit selection of factions allows for more balance. That said MTW VI with the XL mod has provided me with hundreds of hours of challenging game play (well far more challenging then MTW2).

STW and MTW are more challenging due to their longer drawn out tactical battles. Battles in the later games are not much more than charge and rout affairs. When winning RTW battles I always feel as if the AI didn't really put up a fight or that I had somehow exploited them. With MTW winning always felt deserved unless you were edge camping or blatently trying to shoot the general out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odin

I have had beautiful battles in MTW2, simply stunning visually but the outcome was never in question, I have never lost a game of MTW2 and completed it a few times. IN MTWVI I have lost games from civil war, to actual defeat on the battlefield.

This is due to the battlefield AI that has been worse since RTW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odin

Im am refreshed in my humility to admit that MTW VI is the superior game, and grateful that I retained my copies of it (and there is XL 3.0 :thumbsup: )

:bow:
11-08-2007, 14:32
Odin

Re: Never say Never

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caravel

You weren't necessarily wrong, you had simply made up your own mind to try M2TW instead of listening to those that were possibly biased by their experiences of MTW. All in all I think you made the right decision as you've had many months of gameplay, a break from MTW and some experience of the newer second generation TW games. If you hadn't tried it then you would still be none the wiser.

indeed

Quote:

Unfortunately it does seem that M2TW is by all accounts an RTW mod. Many of the same problems that plagued RTW still plague M2TW and now it seems that a new patch for Kingdoms is not forthcoming. Personally I feel sorry for those that have bought it, as they will continue to have to cope with it's bugginess (not to mention SecuRom) unsupported. It is possible that we'll see a repeat of the community based bug fixer such as Player1's for RTW/BI.

I certainly had no illusions that MTW2 would be a superior game, I did hope that at a minimum i would be offerred the same challenge i had in MTW with some slightly better graphics. I am no modder, but I am baffled as to the inept AI, literally I have left england undefended, prosuctued a hostile take over of france. All the while Scotland, a french ally as well as being at war with me did nothing, and they very well could have swept all the way down to London.

Quote:

STW and MTW are more challenging due to their longer drawn out tactical battles. Battles in the later games are not much more than charge and rout affairs. When winning RTW battles I always feel as if the AI didn't really put up a fight or that I had somehow exploited them. With MTW winning always felt deserved unless you were edge camping or blatently trying to shoot the general out.

Yes I agree the AI was smarter, in most MTW battles where I have the better army the AI parks on high ground and waits, a very sound but simple tactical move. In MTW2 I have brought a full fledged army filled with spears, knights and ranged units against two rebel archers. The archers charge to range and then attack, rather then run to higher ground.

I do contend that the balance of units plays a large role, while VI introduced new names and sprites a close look reveals that most factions have the ability to produce a similar unit type. STW there was even more uniformity, and that lends to more balance something void in MTW2
11-08-2007, 15:06
OmarPacha

Re: Never say Never

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odin

I am refreshed in my humility to admit that MTW VI is the superior game, and grateful that I retained my copies of it (and there is XL 3.0 :thumbsup: )

Yes, I did. I've been playing MTW2 for a while, 2 campaigns (Venice, Russian) the I get bored of enemy leaders passing borders of your province without you could do nothing to stop 'em.
That is not strategy that is only an irritating waste of time in chasing.
Moreover I found this kind of gameplay a great historical mistake. In middle age passing through someone else's land with an army was not so easy but ending in war.
I've unistalled MTW2 last summer.
11-08-2007, 15:11
Odin

Re: Never say Never

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmarPacha

Yes, I did. I've been playing MTW2 for a while, 2 campaigns (Venice, Russian) the I get bored of enemy leaders passing borders of your province without you could do nothing to stop 'em.
That is not strategy that is only an irritating waste of time in chasing.
Moreover I found this kind of gameplay a great historical mistake. In middle age passing through someone else's land with an army was not so easy but ending in war.
I've unistalled MTW2 last summer.

Excellent observation, Ive had the Byzantine emperor all by himself pass through my hungarian lands. The kicker is we were at war, I attacked and killed him.

I like having generals other then heirs but thier behavior was silly, not only that but obtaining generals was a random affair which seemed to be based on kingdom size, not the actual merit of the sovereign.
11-08-2007, 16:39
caravel

Re: Never say Never

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odin

Yes I agree the AI was smarter, in most MTW battles where I have the better army the AI parks on high ground and waits, a very sound but simple tactical move. In MTW2 I have brought a full fledged army filled with spears, knights and ranged units against two rebel archers. The archers charge to range and then attack, rather then run to higher ground.

This is the same as RTW. The enemy never seem to make proper use of the terrain and especially not the high ground or woods. In MTW and STW the enemy hid in the woods and would always deploy to the higher ground. If you'd try to redeploy higher still they would cotton on to your intentions and redeploy higher or to another position. In fact in MTW battles pincering enemy armies was a delicate maneouvre that could go badly wrong at any moment. In a recent RTW battle my force of Gauls sallied from Rome to attack a alrge Brutii force of Principes, Hastatii, Town Watch and Equites, as well as the General's unit. The enemy fell back and repositioned itself further from the walls downhill of my emerging force. The result was a slaughter.
11-10-2007, 10:12
cegorach

Re: Never say Never

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

I am still waiting for my purchase of MTW Gold, but I plan to play it with the XL mod, and I think I will start a Polish campaign on Hard.

"First to fight!"

Indeed, but for more fun in white and red (or rather white and red and blue considering the time period) I can suggest Pime and Musket mod.

After all who can really resist this :laugh4: :

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

https://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b...orhusaria1.jpg
11-14-2007, 17:10
The Unknown Guy

Re: Never say Never

I am tempted to reinstall MTW (uninstalled it because I didn´t have time for the full "medieval campaign) and remod viking invasion into playability (mainly nerfing huscarles a bit). I think that it is less likely to stagnate, specially if modded to make armies smaller. So it´s prolly more suited for short-term fun.

Still, I´d like a long epic campaign which didn´t fall into the usual "ginormous army" fragfests. I wonder if in Caravel's Pocket mod it´d have been better to remove homelands except for very specific units, and instead raise steeply maintenance costs, and building reçs (might mess aroudn with that if I do reinstall)

Sidenote: all hail Technoviking :p https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsntHcWiy4