Good music

Okay I'm posting this back here, because all the cool people seem to hang out in the Backroom. Plus, if I really really get on a roll (bourbon willing) this could turn into an ugly rant.

I want to ask a question to all the Orgahs out there: is it just me, or does it seem like all the best music has already been recorded?

Think about it seriously. When is the last time that you saw/heard someone with the same honest feverish energy as Otis Redding, or Jimi Hendrix, or Janis Joplin? When is the last time you heard someone with the same musical talent as The Electric Flag or (**** you, Gawain, for you were right... :shame:) the Beatles? Sure, there are plenty of bands that make it as "pop" bands, but none of them seem to have... that. Whatever THAT is. That thing that hits so hard when you listen to it, in the same way that the right selection of classical music can. That thing that brings tears to your eyes.

What is it that is keeping us from making good music these days? The best answer I can come up with is MTV. Their constant omnipresent control over America's youth means that whatever they present will become a prevailing force. But that isn't the end-all, be-all answer: MTV gave Stevie Ray Vaughn his debut, unless I am mistaken, and you have to admit, he was DAMN good. Michael Jackson too, deserves plenty of the blame; unless I am sorely mistaken, most of today's pop can trace its roots back to that human monstrosity. So maybe it's him. Or maybe it is simply the increasingly frenetic attitude of modern Western culture. We are completely obsessed with the newest and the best these days, and there's no use denying it. Even in the 70's and 80's, we still respected, for the greater part, the work of earlier musicians. Not so today.

And so, as I sit in my dorm room, committing various activities which my most prestigious university frowns down upon, I feel moved to ask the opinions of the Org as to why popular music no longer encompasses any bands who may have any lasting musical value. Hell, is it really all in my head? Am I some atavistic fool, clinging to a past that I should have lived in? Or are we really going through a musical crisis?

For your consideration, I submit six of my favorite live performances previously posted (in a strongly reactionary manner) in a "worst music videos" thread:

The MC5: Kick Out the Jams

The Jefferson Airplane: The House at Pooneil Corners

The Pink Floyd: Interstellar Overdrive

"Big Mama" Thornton: Hound Dog

Otis Redding: Satisfaction

Queen Janis: Cry Baby

If you know of someone as good as these guys who has ht it big recently, please do post them here. I could use a little encouragement.

OK
Zorba
(Reverend Gonzo)

Justin timberlake?

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Justin timberlake?

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Great one Sasaki.

meatwad Reverend Gonzo: I don't like much of what is being produced today, but I suspect I probably won't like much that was being produced back in the day as well.

Live long enough and time will do its job; the bad music will be largely forgotten and a few precious gems will be free to shine.

But yeah, if you turn up the radio these days you get cynical fast. I spent a year feeling just like you do because the rap music on radio (the one I had been mind-raped into listening every morning: the woe of school buses!) was so pathetic: it was like there's no good music being produced in this world anymore. I find these days though, that the music I appreciate the most often reveals itself first in places where they aren't limited to merely sounds: concerts, soundtracks, a good accompaniment in a dramatic moment in my favorite show, etc, etc.

The thing is, I try to be everything but a music connoisseur. Know nothing, cares nothing, and listens only with my two ears. Like what my ears like, and I'm happy. I miss out, but I'm also no longer suffering from musical depression.

Besides, old genres don't die, some will continue to play them the old skool way while others adapt them in new ways.

With your list I doubt our tastes correlate that well though. :clown:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Justin timberlake?

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:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

There are plenty of bands today that have great deals of energy and can generate a huge buzz in the audience, but I think that many (Not all) bands today don't write for any reason but making money. There are still exceptions (like Anti-Flag) who can bang out some great tunes, but the majority are in it for the money, unlike in the old days.

Some older Pop music kicks new pop music's ass! However, I used the word some and I think you need to look harder. There are great acts around that rock, and damn they rock hard!

put on some Queens of the Stone Age albums...and embrace the Gods of modern music.... (hell...not just Queens...anything Josh Homme has his hands on has proven to be quite good.....Queens, Eagles of Death Metal, Kyuss, Mondo Generator, The Desert Sessions...etc..etc)

accept no substitutes...

Queen´s featuring Cee Lo - I wanna make it wit chu


well...Danko Jones is pretty good too...great live act...

Danko Jones - Baby hates me


There is very good music out there today...I will have to say that you have to look hard to find it most of the time...as it is buried under the tons of crap pop music MTV and it´s ilk try to push down our throats...

that is not saying that all Pop music is bad...but it is not my bag most of the time...occasionally something good comes along..but that´s it....last week I a friend of mine made me listen to Justin Timberlake´s new album and I had to admit that it was a very good pop record.......if you asked me 5 years if I would ever like anything Timberlake put out I would have laughed my ass off.

This (language warning!) is good music. ~;)

I had a long post before but this should sum it all up.

I'd tend to agree with you, as most new stuff that is decent these days tends to be a direct derivative of older stuff.

Nothing will hold that place in my heart that Frank Zappa (Inca Roads), Pink Floyd (Echoes), Funkadelic (Eddie Hazel's masterpiece Maggot Brain), Jimi Hendrix (Spanish Castle Magic), The Quicksilver Messanger Service (Mona), Hawkwind (Angels of Death) and Captain Beefheart and The Magic Band hold.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by CA

Snip!...great tunes...

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I think that is the whole problem! All new songs are nothing but tunes; they're not special, nor do they transcend the barriers between the spiritual and the tangible. They're just songs to while away useless hours, and pass about in a comercial trance.

:End Rant:

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Originally Posted by Ronin

There is very good music out there today...I will have to say that you have to look hard to find it most of the time

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True. I like QOTSA, its not my favourite, but they're pretty good. I also appreciate Tool, the progressive aspects are very nice.

Bah!

If only you guys understood norwegian... Jokke&Valentinerne makes extremely good music. Or made, he's quite dead now.

EDIT: Hey! The wonders of youtube! https://youtube.com/watch?v=2WeEnoYEoPc old and crap quality, but still...

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Originally Posted by Rythmic

I also appreciate Tool, the progressive aspects are very nice.

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:yes: Very complex musically, not commercialized at all. Mainstream radio stations will only play a few of their songs due to content or length, but they don't really care. Probably works nice with altered states as well. ~;) YouTube has tons of videos (both official, fan made, and live), the claymation ones from the Salival DVD are good.

The competition within the music scene is much bigger today. In 1790, the music business could probably only handle a handful of really great composers, and in 1960, the world couldn't house more than a dozen pop/rock bands. Today anyone who looks good and is good at singing (or can fake being good at singing) can become famous.

There are still talented people out there, they just don't get the same amount of attention as previous generation's geniouses.

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Originally Posted by Rythmic

I think that is the whole problem! All new songs are nothing but tunes; they're not special, nor do they transcend the barriers between the spiritual and the tangible. They're just songs to while away useless hours, and pass about in a comercial trance.

:End Rant:


True. I like QOTSA, its not my favourite, but they're pretty good. I also appreciate Tool, the progressive aspects are very nice.

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That´s very debatable....the songs are special or not depending of who is listening to them....that special meaning is self discovered...you can´t just rubber stamp a specific song and say "this has no special meaning" (well..except for really commercial pop crap like Britney and such)

songs like QOTSA´s 'Better Living Through Chemistry' and TOOL´s 'Aenima' are in that special level...and the generation that grows up listening to it will consider them as such...just like past generations looked at Zeppelin for example.

As long as new people continue to discover what is great about music there'll be a need for new bands. Sure, we can all just moan about how the best has been and keep tastes stuck decades ago, or at least be open-minded enough to recognise new bands on their own merits and accept changing styles.

Why should people keep writing books? Why even keep on living, if there have been so many people before us and so many achievements most will never surpass? Because the exceptional is always a minority; and exceptional people are never discovered overnight, whatever modern tv such as MTV want us to believe. People seem to expect something exceptional every year, month or week, and as long as that's the case there'll always be enough suckers buying the next best thing.

Plus, the main focus for me when it comes to music is still live performances.

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I'm worse than a n00b about popular music. If it comes to art music though (:inquisitive: for lack of a better word) I think 20th century has been a rebirth...for the Euro-American part at least.
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Good modern music? Rammstein comes to mind. ~;)

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Originally Posted by Husar

This (language warning!) is good music. ~;)

I had a long post before but this should sum it all up.

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Awesome. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

As long as new people continue to discover what is great about music there'll be a need for new bands. Sure, we can all just moan about how the best has been and keep tastes stuck decades ago, or at least be open-minded enough to recognise new bands on their own merits and accept changing styles.

Why should people keep writing books? Why even keep on living, if there have been so many people before us and so many achievements most will never surpass? Because the exceptional is always a minority; and exceptional people are never discovered overnight, whatever modern tv such as MTV want us to believe. People seem to expect something exceptional every year, month or week, and as long as that's the case there'll always be enough suckers buying the next best thing.

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See, this is what happens when I post hammered... I actually agree with you.

I myself also enjoy modern bands, and I appreciate their modern style. What I take issue with is our relatively modern habit of completely abandoning older styles and sounds, rather than taking the time to integrate them with newer musical movements. I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that the best is already past us. There are plenty of good bands out there today. The problem is that they are not really given the respect and attention that they should.

A few examples of what I mean:

The Dolly Rocker Movement.

(same)

Dead Meadow.

The Black Angels.

A couple other performers that I don't really like, but seem to exemplify what I am talking about:

Keb' Mo'. He is much more modern that the example I gave here, but again, the old styles can be revived and celebrated, and enjoyed just as much, as you can see here.

The White Stripes. Again, I am not the biggest fan of most of their work, and Jack White really needs to work on his guitar solos (they are kind of directionless and amateurish,) but he still captures the old Blues spirit and energy.

The point is, aside from the White Stripes, none of these guys have really hit it big, and I find that to be disappointing.

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Plus, the main focus for me when it comes to music is still live performances.

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Damn right. If you look at my links, you will notice they are all live. Real musicians are at their best onstage.

Metal.
Metal is modern.
Metal is awesome.

Both old school and more recent metal are awesome. Even KoRn is awesome, (but not metal, they're like neo-funk). It's just so powerful and technical that it deserves a mention here.

The Rebirth of Terror

There's some great stuff that remembers old stuff but pushes forward. The North Mississippi Allstars come to mind quickly. The sons of Jim Dickinson formed a band and regularly bring RL Burnside's son in to play with them. The play blues that almost sounds like something from way back when but its got a certain amount of moderness to it that makes it its own distinct thing.

Sorry DA, but I'd have to disagree with you. Personally I hate the sound and music, I appreciate the technicality of the structures and time signatures. But the power chords get really dull, really quickly.

Green Day.:yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxfpMGLMZ7Y
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pql8RN5QjTc&NR=1
second one is rather slow-developing, but very nice overall, imo.

Old Green Day songs are better. They are one of the better groups out there right now though. Boulevard got played wayyyyyyyy to much when it first came out but it is a good song. American Idiot was a great album but on an individual basis old Green Day songs are better.

And what a nice, chilling voice the singer has. :inquisitive:

Erm I mean if all the fans are only interested in their great guitar and drum skills, why have a "singer" at all? ~;)

So after some discussion, we've decided that the "problem" with music in 2007 is not the music or the musicians, but the recognition? The marketing?

The 'problem' doesn't exist imo.

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Live long enough and time will do its job; the bad music will be largely forgotten and a few precious gems will be free to shine.

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What you refer to as old music is by no means the sum total of all music, it is la creme de la creme. The sea of awful music that was created alongside it is forgotten.

Similarly, todays music is a sea of sound. There are gems in there, and time will recognise them and isolate them from the rest, but in the meantime, who gets played on the radio is as much affected by marketing as by musical talent.

So in conclusion my argument is: Old music is not 'better', it is merely 'filtered' :grin:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

What you refer to as old music is by no means the sum total of all music, it is la creme de la creme. The sea of awful music that was created alongside it is forgotten.

Similarly, todays music is a sea of sound. There are gems in there, and time will recognise them and isolate them from the rest, but in the meantime, who gets played on the radio is as much affected by marketing as by musical talent.

So in conclusion my argument is: Old music is not 'better', it is merely 'filtered' :grin:

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Precisely. Some music I loved when I was younger (which obviously isn't even that long ago) I can't even begin to listen to now, which only makes even more clear how much better the music is that I still enjoy after all that time.

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Originally Posted by Reverend Gonzo

Okay I'm posting this back here, because all the cool people seem to hang out in the Backroom. Plus, if I really really get on a roll (bourbon willing) this could turn into an ugly rant.

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Please, rant away. I would very much rejoice in reading it.

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I want to ask a question to all the Orgahs out there: is it just me, or does it seem like all the best music has already been recorded?

Think about it seriously. When is the last time that you saw/heard someone with the same honest feverish energy as Otis Redding, or Jimi Hendrix, or Janis Joplin? When is the last time you heard someone with the same musical talent as The Electric Flag or (**** you, Gawain, for you were right... :shame:) the Beatles? Sure, there are plenty of bands that make it as "pop" bands, but none of them seem to have... that. Whatever THAT is. That thing that hits so hard when you listen to it, in the same way that the right selection of classical music can. That thing that brings tears to your eyes.

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The last time I saw or heard someone who has "it?" Not so long ago; myself. Though I have been out of it for a long time as certain activity suppressed me.

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What is it that is keeping us from making good music these days? The best answer I can come up with is MTV. Their constant omnipresent control over America's youth means that whatever they present will become a prevailing force. But that isn't the end-all, be-all answer: MTV gave Stevie Ray Vaughn his debut, unless I am mistaken, and you have to admit, he was DAMN good. Michael Jackson too, deserves plenty of the blame; unless I am sorely mistaken, most of today's pop can trace its roots back to that human monstrosity. So maybe it's him. Or maybe it is simply the increasingly frenetic attitude of modern Western culture. We are completely obsessed with the newest and the best these days, and there's no use denying it. Even in the 70's and 80's, we still respected, for the greater part, the work of earlier musicians. Not so today.

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Average people who enjoy average, or worse, music. Anti-"artist" activity, anti-intellectual activity, lack of people who "know" what it is all supposed to be about, etc., etc.

And not to forget: money.

Also there are many average, or worse, or even very good, "technical audio people" who know well -- or not so well -- about gear who often try to make music using all this gear (hardware/software). They know production, but they do not really know music that well. In the modern day you would see how many of them construct things, music, and such, according to certain established conventional rules, digital stuff, tricks, easy stuff, and so on. Do you know how simply and easily I could construct a cool sounding beat, put some pads on it, maybe some bass, arrange it a bit more fast, make a quick mix, and have a popular song done? Hell, I don't even HAVE to mix it carefully and I don't even want to think about this... "music process" because it is so dirty and filthy. And even a person who knows very little of these things (music and production) could easily learn to use certain tools and.... "make music". I prefer to call it... "make rubbish fast and easy" so you can "make some $$$ and look cool to the ignorant and foolish including yourself".

Sorry, for I haven't read the whole thread. But Peter Gabriel is one artist I can think of at the moment who seems above average. Then there is Radiohead who has always been very creative, experimental, original, and actually superior to most bands, and so on. Thom Yorke -- their singer -- also made a good original interesting album a while ago.

Then there is film music, but in many movies even that has become so "standard" I dislike listening to most of it and exclude myself from even listening to it mostly.


About those those 70's, 80's and 90's: UGH! The advance of cheap electronical rubbish. Oh God! Oh GOD, I don't wanna think of it, please kill me now!!!!

In fact I'd go further than I have before and suggest that the focus on the best of the past is damaging to our current music. Stuff like old bands like Spice Girls and Rolling Stones reforming to go on tour is frankly ridiculous.

I never liked Spice Girls, and though I enjoy the Stones they're both past it, and cannot live up to the music they created. Pink Floyd playing at Live 8 is another good example. Everyone was yelling their heads off, but have you actually listened to a live record of the night? It's pitiful compared to their performances in their hay day.

But people recognise the name and the fame, and don't listen to the music. It's easier to settle in to listening to the stuff you know and know you like, it's much harder to find new music you like.

BEST. CHRISTMAS. SONG. EVER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3DyxaCYlfg

'Nuff said.

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