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Hello,
I have seen quotes from the Cycles of Don, Telam, and Dunnar on EB loading screens. I've looked unsuccessfully for English (or any other for that matter) translations, and come up empty. If anyone knows where to obtain English translations for these texts, please let me know.
Thanks,
Zzrow Graff
I think they got those from some guy on the forums called Ranika. If I recall correctly, he said it they were still unpublished findings of some such.
There have been some serious doubts expressed as to their authenticity. I don't think it's inappropriate to ask the EB team to provide some verification of the sources for these quotes, particularly when there must be hundreds of period quotes about which there is no question.
Yes, but not many from the celts, I wouldn't have thought.
And who is casting the doubt?
I remember a huge hullabaloo about this a few months ago.
The problem is that it would be very very hard for an entire 'cycle' to go unnoticed for so long, as cycles consist of an enormous amount of work spanning centuries of time.
I figured they were going to remove them for 1.0, simply because, being unpublished works, there is no way for the EB team to prove they existed.
That being said, they take historical accuracy fairly seriously, so I don't think they would add them willy-nilly.
It's a sensitive subject IIRC, and I don't mean any offense to the team members by this post. I have 100% faith that if they included it, there is a good reason. Otherwise, they would have axed them, like they've done for so many other things which were proven false after a time.
Bootsiuv
Nice use of the word hullabaloo! :2thumbsup:
Ranika was an esteemed EB member and not "some guy". I think you didn't intend it to sound that way but this needed clearing up :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Elthore
He had an impressive knowledge of the Celts and all the "doubt" cast was cast by someone who was IMHO an initiate and not an expert with the access Ranika had.
To imply that those quotes were dreamed or made up is an affront to all of our work and please refrain from such opinions. (This is not aimed at anyone just saying...)
Why is Sun Tzu and Confucious in there? They were 100-200 years before EB's time period and were 2000+ miles to the east of EB's Baktrian borders...
:D I think they're cool btw
You guys will/may know Ranika from the Bartix thread; and will have seen his work in the form of the Galatians and many, many Celtic features to EB.
Strategist Sun and Confucius were there in RTW Vanilla. EB seems to have simply added their own quotes on top and replaced Vanilla instances with original language or different translations often. Still there are some things directly from Vanilla in EB.
Was?....Pitty i really enjoyed his posts and i have noticed his absence...oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmeth
No aspersions cast on Ranika, but it is not an insult to a scholar to ask him or her to verify something by showing some evidence or proof. The guy from the posts didn't sound like a tyro to me and his questions were never really answered. They still haven't been. Where do these Cycles come from? If you can't support it, why include it? It'd be an easy enough matter to clear up.
well the idea that ranika made these up is stupid for two reasons: 1-seems that hes a highly respected, legit historian, he wouldnt just make them up. 2-if he DID make them up, damn that mans like a buddha!:laugh4:
in the Ulster Cycle, there's a Donn Cúailnge (black-curly hair), of Cooley (his bull). Its actually Donn, as in irish and scotts gaelic. It can mean black, brown, or dark and as a name it means the Dark One. Not good luck to have it as a personal name. Its normally used to denote a dark or evil spirt (ever heard of Bownies or Donnies), or in ancient times it was also used as the name for the god of the other world or death. He commands the army of the wind; the black birds. Now, that someone brought it up I've never seen or heard of a Cycle of Don or Donn?
I'm not trying to hassle anyone by questioning authenticity. I just thought they sounded really cool, and I'd like to read them if they have been translated into English. If they haven't that's cool, I'll just have to throw a jealous grimace at whoever is lucky enough to be able to read them in the original. ~:cheers:
Right, even the Don in Donald is not really a good scotts name. It means black sail (actually doom) and was typically used to denote a person of Norse affiliation or decent. Unfortunately, I happen to know a little about 'all things scott.'
If it's not Scottish....... IT'S CRAP!!!!!
*dropkicks graff* crazy fool:furious3:
hey, I know Ranika is very well informed on the celts, his posts were very interesting to read and contained a wealth of knowledge. However, it is very unacademic to be using non peer-reviewed or unpublished sources.
I do think that most people, including myself, dont really care about that though and they're just looking for something interesting to read!
So is there absolutely nothing info regarding these sources???
it's just a gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Elthore
"I do think that most people, including myself, dont really care about that though"
read, stupid
Uh oh, this again!
hey guys, check it out, I got this from Merlin himself!!!
"that sounded like a wet one, terrence!" - cycle of farts
"Whats that a'boot, phillip?"
My badness edited out by me.
Calm down people.
Why is everyone so touchy these days?
As you say, your complete stangers, so who cares what you acctualy think of each other?
Just don't inflicit it on the rest of us.
And it has to be said, cmacq, you did start it.
Peace, dudes:hippie:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharnakes
I'm not entirely clear on this, yet as always, you are correct, my bad.
hah, im just kidding around.
I only wanna know where these Cycles come from so I can enjoy reading them, not to audit their sources. EB tries to be academic as possible, so I thought i'd give them a reason to search for these(since the only source is one of their -former-members). My school's library network (UofT) is very extensive, and there is no record of them.
Sorry, so was I. I tried finding them as well. There seems to always be something I've never seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elthore
Now, then...
he may have taken The Donn Cycle from the Lebor Gabála/Lebor Gabála Érenn/Leabhar Gabhála Éireann in English The Book of the Taking aka The Book of Taking Erin's Isle/Erie/Ireland or The Book of the Conquests and also often commonly called The Book of Invasions?
This Milesian character is Eber/Emer Donn mac Miles/Mil Espáine
When alive he was somewhat of a very bad dude, hence the name. I think there also was an old Hebridean story about Donn's pursuit of the Dannan/De'anna from Erie to the Isle of Mull? In one or both stories, after he was killed, I think he became the infamous Donn, king (god) of the dead? There are several additional short-stories just about the KIA Donn. Its been a long time since I've seen these stories, I'll have to check on them?
I've never seen this part of the Leabhar Gabh`ala called a cycle before? But, then again, there may be more to the story than I'm aware of. Maybe he connected all the sperate stories into a single thread? I think historically thats how all the other so-called Cycles became Cycles to begin with. As I said there always seems to be something. Maybe there's a bright Erinite out there that could shed some light?
I suspect that a translation error, or just a simple typing mistake has been made. I think Telam should be Elam. Elam was an ancient civilisation around southwest Iran. It existed for several millenia, but it was long gone at the time Rome: Total war begins. The Elamais were their successors, and they did live to see Rome: Total War. Very little is know about the Elamais, as they spent most of their days under Parthian, and later Sassanid rule.
Uh.... where did this come from? Do you even know what you're talking about? o.O Telam and Elam are NOT related in any way, and I doubt such an important typo would be committed by Ranika, who is to the Celts what the Persian Cataphract is to the Parthians.
These are Celts we're talking about, and I don't think any translation error could involve a Celtic name. What a bad start to the forums...
And your explanation for the fact that nobody out of EB ever heard of Telam is "It is based on new unpublished discoveries"? When are these going to be published then? It is logical you get fuss like this when you put quotations in your game, when the people you quote don't seem te have existed.