Another Benefit of Sharia Law: Lash those rape victims!

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

Quote:

---

A court in the ultra-conservative kingdom of Saudi Arabia is punishing a female victim of gang rape with 200 lashes and six months in jail, a newspaper reported on Thursday.
The 19-year-old woman -- whose six armed attackers have been sentenced to jail terms -- was initially ordered to undergo 90 lashes for "being in the car of an unrelated male at the time of the rape," the Arab News reported.

But in a new verdict issued after Saudi Arabia's Higher Judicial Council ordered a retrial, the court in the eastern town of Al-Qatif more than doubled the number of lashes to 200.

---

:daisy:

Not exactly nice (by Western standards), but if the law in her country says that you cannot be in another guy's car unless you are related, then she was asking for it (the punishment, not the rape) really.

As per the article, not only was her sentence raised (for trying to influence the judiciary via media campaigns), but that of her attackers' (sentence was found too lenient) as well.

Still, hopefully she will get counselling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Not exactly nice (by Western standards), but if the law in her country says that you cannot be in another guy's car unless you are related, then she was asking for it (the punishment, not the rape) really.

...

Still, hopefully she will get counselling.

---

Boggles belief. Counselling? :dizzy2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

:daisy:

---

You need to learn the difference between muslims and their government. You don't vote for neither dictatorships nor monarchies, you know...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

:daisy:

---

Yeah, in the same way that the Westboro Baptist Church encapsulates everything that is wrong and disgusting about christians, or Adolf Hitler encapsulates everything that is wrong and disgusting about northern Europeans. :wall:

So, when are we going to do the regime thing in Saudi? Oh, wait,....

Couldn't care less how they run their homo-erotic deserts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoreTore

You need to learn the difference between muslims and their government. You don't vote for neither dictatorships nor monarchies, you know...

---

Saudi Arabia is no police state a la Soviet Russia... if a majority wanted things different, they would be different.

Unfortunately, the only popular movements seem to be for even stricter islamic law a la Al Queda.

I don't buy the argument that there are throngs of moderate muslims waiting for liberation from their oppressive governments. It certainly didn't happen in Iraq.

It'd be interesting to see some polls on how the Saudis feel about their law codes.

Quote:

---

Yeah, in the same way that the Westboro Baptist Church encapsulates everything that is wrong and disgusting about christians, or Adolf Hitler encapsulates everything that is wrong and disgusting about northern Europeans.

---

The Westboro Baptist Church does not represent the law of the United States and Adolf Hitler did encapsulate the views of many Northern Europeans..... 70 years ago!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Saudi Arabia is no police state a la Soviet Russia... if a majority wanted things different, they would be different.

---

No? They've got a special police force, use torture, hereditary rule, censorship, complete control of the army, etc... It's an absolute monarchy, for crying out loud!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Unfortunately, the only popular movements seem to be for even stricter islamic law a la Al Queda.

---

So the reason why saudi arabia is actually getting more relaxed on the despotism is because of what then? And I'll laugh if you say "international pressure".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

I don't buy the argument that there are throngs of moderate muslims waiting for liberation from their oppressive governments. It certainly didn't happen in Iraq.

---

People tend to rally against a foreign invader simply because they're foreign. Overthrow the government without ruining the country in an invasion, then we'll talk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

It'd be interesting to see some polls on how the Saudis feel about their law codes.

---

Won't happen, because, you know, these things are censored by the state... But I suppose censorship is not a sign of a police state...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Adolf Hitler did encapsulate the views of many Northern Europeans..... 70 years ago!

---

Unfortunately, he still has a fair few supporters here. And they're currently on the rise, especially in russia...

Panzer, you actually know nothing at all about Saudi Arabia, do you?

Here's a link: http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/saudi/

And this is to save you the bother:

Quote:

---

No dissent allowed

Anyone brave enough to voice dissent in Saudi Arabia is likely to end up in jail for a very long time and suffer other violations of their basic human rights. The reason is simple. The government does not allow any criticisms of its policies or any independent thought or activity that might challenge the status quo.

.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

homo-erotic deserts.

---

:laugh4:

Well, you could at least care about the woman who is about to get 200 lashes after getting raped.

Then again if women there were very strict and would never enter a man's car or even hang out with men, forcing men to either break the law themselves or live in celibacy, then maybe the men would want to have those laws changed sometime.
Yeah, I know, great plan, will definitely work, but then the plan with the army is a bit worse since the army is currently very busy giving freedom to Iraqi women and the other "armies" aren't up to the task anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

Boggles belief. Counselling? :dizzy2:

---

Rape victims should get counselling (if they want it that is). Don't you agree?

Panzer:

You really should brush up a bit on particulars.

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, even in its naming, is a wholly-owned concern of the Saud family. It isn't -- quite -- an absolute monarchy, but at a minimum you'd need to label it an oligarchy dominated by one family.

I've heard people describe the Saud family in terms that were far too close to the fictitious Corleone family.


You are correct in that most of the populist opposition in SA are actually reactionary and not revolutionary in character. I haven't read anything about a group of would-be Roundheads cropping up (though others may correct me here if I have missed it).

EA:

Regime change -- Magna Carta at least if not Cromwell -- would be something to work for, I agree. Bit difficult to get started when the only apparent groups on the ground to take up the reins make the Al Queda network look like a group of candy-assed liberals.

Not to mention the economic hiccough caused by all that oil going off line for a few months or years. I'm ALREADY paying enough extra at the pump to enrich the lives of a few thousand oil futures investors....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by English assassin

Panzer, you actually know nothing at all about Saudi Arabia, do you?

---

You are talking to someone who thinks the nazis were fair enough and that south america needs facist dictators back to sort it out. He doesn't know much of anything :laugh4:

Play the ball, idaho....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idaho

You are talking to someone who thinks the nazis were fair enough and that south america needs facist dictators back to sort it out. He doesn't know much of anything :laugh4:

---

seen worse

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

:daisy:

---

Either that, or their government, but you're probably right.
Now, who wants to go blame Russians for their governments crimes?

Ugh. When I read these articles I wish we could produce more of our own domestic fuel so wouldn't have to trade with these monsters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Rape victims should get counselling (if they want it that is). Don't you agree?

---

I just found the combination of essentially saying she got what she deserved (ie. punishment), but that she should get counseling (what? for the rape or the lashes) a bit curious to say the least.

Rather than scream and yell about Sharia, could I ask LeftEyeNine or Mouzapherre, or somebody else actually familiar with the intricacies of Islam whether this really is is a valid ruling within Islam or if this is a perversion of their system? Not your opinion mind you, is it scripturally/dogmatically valid....

I ask because I'm trying to project here for a moment. I've been a practicing Roman Catholic for most of my life (took a few years off to explore being Protestant, but if anything, I think I learned more about my faith). I attended a Roman Catholic high school, I received the Pope Pius XII and Ad Altare Dei awards, served mass, you name it. As far as laity goes, I 'should' be pretty up on all of this.

And I cannot say for certain that bishops coming out and ordering their congregants not to support pro-choice candidates, or conversely, their position ordering their congregants to drop all opposition to illegal immigration, ala Cardinal Mahoney, is technically valid (and I've been thinking about it a lot lately).

I certainly wouldn't respond well to a Lutheran living in Umea, Sweden (nothing against Swedes, trying to pick an area where there's no Catholics) telling me that this represents everything that's wrong with the Catholic Church. :shrug:

woman needs 5 witnesses easy as that. Under sharia her crime is not being able to make the men control theirselvels because she was in the wrong place (duh), cultural thing, they have that, culture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

I just found the combination of essentially saying she got what she deserved (ie. punishment), but that she should get counseling (what? for the rape or the lashes) a bit curious to say the least.

---

Its obviously not kind to lash a rape victim, but if you break the law, there tend to be consequences (i.e. in SA according to the article that is driving a car, affiliating with other men, attempting to use media to influence judiciary).
What I mean is that she should get counselling unless she opts out of it for the rape, but she should eventually serve her sentence for the laws that she did break.

Being a victim doesn't mean you can break the law (regardless of how outdated it is) and get away with it.

Good post Don.

I too would like LEN or Mouz' to weigh in. Turkey especially, as the most "secular" of Muslim nations, should have some valid insight.

Perversion or not, it's still a barbaric act.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Perversion or not, it's still a barbaric act.

---

I'm not in any way trying to defend the legal practice. But it's being raised as an example of the endemic woes of Islam. My point is that before it can be raised to that status, let's make sure it's actually valid within an Islamic framework.

Personally, I find the whole affair repugnant. I would rather visit Iraq than Saudi Arabia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Its obviously not kind to lash a rape victim, but if you break the law, there tend to be consequences (i.e. in SA according to the article that is driving a car, affiliating with other men, attempting to use media to influence judiciary).
What I mean is that she should get counselling unless she opts out of it for the rape, but she should eventually serve her sentence for the laws that she did break.

Being a victim doesn't mean you can break the law (regardless of how outdated it is) and get away with it.

---

A definite judgement from my side will have to wait, but I have yet to see anything suggesting she voluntarily entered the car; let alone, that that could ever justify such a punishment even after rape.

Still, at least Britain and Saudi Arabia "share common values", so certain ministers claim...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

A definite judgement from my side will have to wait, but I have yet to see anything suggesting she voluntarily entered the car; let alone, that that could ever justify such a punishment even after rape.

Still, at least Britain and Saudi Arabia "share common values", so certain ministers claim...

---

Agreed, let's wait for one of our Islamic members to post regarding this issue.

The article doesn't say whether she was forced into the car or whether she was in the car to begin with and driving it. Since she was sentenced for driving a car though (which is illegal there), I imagine she was there to start with before the men raped her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

The article doesn't say whether she was forced into the car or whether she was in the car to begin with and driving it. Since she was sentenced for driving a car though (which is illegal there), I imagine she was there to start with before the men raped her.

---

But where do you get the driving part from? The closest I'm finding is that she's being punished for being "in an unrelated man's car at the time of the attack".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

But where do you get the driving part from? The closest I'm finding is that she's being punished for being "in an unrelated man's car at the time of the attack".

---

I inferred it (not sure if correctly or not) from:

Quote:

---

Saudi Arabia enforces a strict Islamic doctrine known as Wahhabism and forbids unrelated men and women from associating with each other, bans women from driving and forces them to cover head-to-toe in public.

---

Hmmmmmm....Daisy replacements bad I guesss, anyway...What I said has to be right, there's only 2 other people on this threads that aren't n00bers...And of course either one, or, (worse), both may have beards!!!