Another case of organized Islam putting its worst foot forward

This is just spectacular. They are potentially going to give this nice old lady, a British teacher, 40 lashes and some prison time, because she perpetrated a horribly insulting crime against Islam. What is it you ask? She allowed her class of seven year olds to name the class teddy bear "Muhammed."

Off with her head...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rnational/home

My favorite bit:

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Although Khartoum officials played down the case and said it was an isolated incident, Sudan's top clerics said in a statement Wednesday that the full measure of the law should be applied against Ms. Gibbons, calling the incident part of a broader Western "plot" against Islam.
Northern Sudan's legal system is based on Islam's Sharia law, which harshly punishes blasphemy. Any depiction of the prophet is forbidden in Islam, for fear it would provoke idolatry. Caricatures of Muhammed in some European media last year sparked riots in several Muslim countries.
The Sudanese clerics said this was blasphemy and believed it was intentional.
"What has happened was not haphazard or carried out of ignorance, but rather a calculated action and another ring in the circles of plotting against Islam," the Sudanese Assembly of the Ulemas said the statement.
"It is part of the campaign of the so-called war against terrorism and the intense media campaign against Islam," they said.

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Idiots.

I've been following this story for the last few days. Well as they say "When in Rome....." etc, etc.....even if the Romans turn out to be vicious, sadistic, mongtards.

The poor, poor woman. :shame:

Ahem.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Ahem.

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OK.

However, now that this poor women has been charged, I think it deserves a thread of it's own.

BTW, she didn't name the 'teddy', her class did, by a democratic vote. Something that she had to explain beforehand as her pupils had absolutely no clue about democracy. Mebbe that's (one of) the issues here.

Just a thought.

I hope she can expect more British support than the non-Muslim minority in Sudan...

That is wrong. Utterly and completely wrong. My condolences to her.

By the way, was she a citizen of Sudan, or muslim even?

She's a Scouser.

Apparently the private school where she teaches is a Christian school, even though most pupils come from Muslim homes. I think that goes a long way toward explaining the commotion.

Idiots, nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

She's a Scouser.

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Oh, if she's a scouser then why the hell does she have a thread, let alone evoke compassion within us?
On a serious note, I think this is awful! Is not Muhammed a common name for some areas of the Islamic world?

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Originally Posted by IrishArmenian

Is not Muhammed a common name for some areas of the Islamic world?

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It's extremely common. One of the boys in her class was named Muhammed, and they named the bear after him. The prosecution is baseless, stupid, and utterly silly. I can't imagine a better way for Sudan to make itself ridiculous, or to tarnish the reputation of Islamic Law.

Contrary to many claims in this thread, they are not "idiots" just because they take their religion seriously.


The teacher easily could have insisted on another, non-offensive name and avoid this whole issue. That she did not just goes to show that she was likely trying to inflame the Muslim world, or at least indifferent as to whether she would or not. Part of a good teacher's responsibility is to avoid doing irresponsible things like that.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

The teacher easily could have insisted on another, non-offensive name and avoid this whole issue. That she did not just goes to show that she was likely trying to inflame the Muslim world, or at least indifferent as to whether she would or not.

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Nav, why not do a bit of research before you post?

A pupil of the teacher leapt to her defence yesterday.

The seven-year-old said he suggested the name – after himself, not the Islamic prophet.

And he says he would be upset if jailed Gillian Gibbons never came back to teach at Unity High School in Sudan’s capital Khartoum.

The lad, who spells his name Mohammad, said: “The teacher asked what I wanted to call the teddy. I said Mohammad, after my name.”

He added that most of his class agreed with his choice and described Gillian, of Liverpool, as a “very nice” teacher who never mentioned religion in class.

His mum added: “I’m annoyed that this has escalated in this way. If it happened as he said, then there is no problem here – it was not intended.”

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Originally Posted by Lemur

Nav, why not do a bit of research before you post?

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That is just one side of the story, and may not be the true side.

There is also the other side which states:

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The Sudanese clerics said this was blasphemy and believed it was intentional.

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And in any case, if she did indeed do it inadvertently, then it speaks to her not having a proper level of world religion education to hold a teaching position, especially one where she is teaching Muslim students.

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Originally Posted by IrishArmenian

Oh, if she's a scouser then why the hell does she have a thread, let alone evoke compassion within us?

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Exactly what I was thinking.

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Originally Posted by Navaros

Contrary to many claims in this thread, they are not "idiots" just because they take their religion seriously.


The teacher easily could have insisted on another, non-offensive name and avoid this whole issue. That she did not just goes to show that she was likely trying to inflame the Muslim world, or at least indifferent as to whether she would or not. Part of a good teacher's responsibility is to avoid doing irresponsible things like that.

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Muhammed is a pretty common name. It would not have occurred to me, someone who lived his whole life in a muslim society, that this name is more inappropriate than any other for a teddy bear. So I don't see any reason to suspect that the teacher did it intentionally.

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Originally Posted by Komutan

Muhammed is a pretty common name. It would not have occurred to me, someone who lived his whole life in a muslim society, that this name is more inappropriate than any other for a teddy bear. So I don't see any reason to suspect that the teacher did it intentionally.

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Jesus is a pretty common name too, but you should still be careful of which things you name jesus. Especially if you live in a theocracy or similar.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Jesus is a pretty common name too, but you should still be careful of which things you name jesus. Especially if you live in a theocracy or similar.

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So, why is it okay to give the name Mohammed to a person, and not to a teddy bear?

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

So, why is it okay to give the name Mohammed to a person, and not to a teddy bear?

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Because a person is a human being, and thus worth quite a bit more than a teddy bear, perhaps?

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Originally Posted by Lemur

It's extremely common. One of the boys in her class was named Muhammed, and they named the bear after him. The prosecution is baseless, stupid, and utterly silly. I can't imagine a better way for Sudan to make itself ridiculous, or to tarnish the reputation of Islamic Law.

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This is the reputation, and in fact the reality, of islamic "law".

Rule by decree, no rights, no fair trials, incredibly brutal punishments, confessions via torture, and no real concept of justice.

But hey, they came up with script over 1000 years ago, what a beautiful society... ~:wacko:

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Rule by decree, no rights, no fair trials, incredibly brutal punishments, confessions via torture, and no real concept of justice.

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That's the truth of every society who lacks democracy.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Jesus is a pretty common name too, but you should still be careful of which things you name jesus. Especially if you live in a theocracy or similar.

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Name one place in the world where you would be lashed 40 times for naming a Teddy Bear Jesus. The only fanatics I would worry about lashing me 40 times would be the ones in the Society for Separation of Church and State.

And Navaros, quit using your religious beliefs to troll. It doesn't become you, or the Christ you claim to follow.

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So, why is it okay to give the name Mohammed to a person, and not to a teddy bear?

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I'm sure naming a child Mohammed is a way of honouring the Prophet, and I believe that in Islamic societies, the choice of a name is designed to impart certain qualities to the recipient. To be named Muhammed is to become like Muhammed.

Furthermore, Islam proscribes the making of images of creation (this extends to human beings generally, not just the Prophet) - according to my Muslim friends, their children are not allowed to have dolls, as these are an infringement of that ruling (of course, it doesn't mean they don't have dolls etc ~D). Which puts teddy bears in an unusual situation - are they "bears" or not? Obviously a teddy bear as portrayed is not a reproduction of a real bear, so can it be idolatrous?

However, all that said:

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Originally Posted by OP

The Sudanese clerics said this was blasphemy and believed it was intentional.
"What has happened was not haphazard or carried out of ignorance, but rather a calculated action and another ring in the circles of plotting against Islam," the Sudanese Assembly of the Ulemas said the statement.
"It is part of the campaign of the so-called war against terrorism and the intense media campaign against Islam," they said.

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... is complete garbage. Some people just look for excuses to be offended - it's vanity, pure and simple, and something probably very un-Quranic, too.

If we gave these ulemas the respect they deserve, they would truly learn what an insult is :bow:

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Name one place in the world where you would be lashed 40 times for naming a Teddy Bear Jesus.

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It doesn't exist, because fortunately the christian lunatics don't rule any countries(as opposed to islamic lunatics, who rule a few countries).

Though there have been more than a few idiot cases in the christian world too, like raped women jailed up for having an abortion...

Bah. Dispicable story, really. Story is proof why countries need separation of church and state.(well, there are other examples too) It really doesn't do justice to the vast majority of muslims.

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Originally Posted by kamikhaan

Bah. Dispicable story, really. Story is proof why countries need separation of church and state.(well, there are other examples too) It really doesn't do justice to the vast majority of muslims.

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Well, a state church can work the other way too, it doesn't have to be the church meddling with state affairs, it can also be the state meddling with church affairs...

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Originally Posted by PJ

Rule by decree, no rights, no fair trials, incredibly brutal punishments, confessions via torture, and no real concept of justice.

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Sounds like Gitmo to me :clown:

... but seriously, PJ, can't you find a broader brush to paint the situation with? Or maybe you just know bugger all about the intricacies so will gloss over them like they don't exist? "Sharia law" is no more monolithic than "western law" - different jurisdictions have different codes and traditions, rulings are interpretations, it is different between the Sunni and Shia traditions, Wahhabists are different again, some points of law swing on disagreements over the precise meaning of obscure words in Quranic Arabic etc etc.

Now, I agree that currently some Islamic courts seem to be under the sway of a bunch of virulent dingbats, but not all. Some secular, Western societies have some pretty crazy judges too, but to brand the whole tradition with the excesses of the extremes is not helpful at all.

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Originally Posted by macsen rufus

Some secular, Western societies have some pretty crazy judges too

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I think Fragony can expand on that topic :laugh4:

You mean like the guy from Niagara who locked up the entire courthouse?

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

You mean like the guy from Niagara who locked up the entire courthouse?

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When did Nigeria become a western country? :inquisitive:

Truly absurd case, very stupid on behalf of the Sudanese government, for what reasons i'll explain in a second. Opened the letter page of The Times the day after the story broke, and there was a single letter that pretty much sums up the whole situation, from a muslim bloke in Glasgow and went something along these lines.

'This makes me embarassed to be a muslim and to be Sudanese.'

And then i read The Times article on it where they made a pretty good point - nowhere in the Koran does it say you shall not make idols of Mohammed (pbuh). Nowhere does it forbade it - it just frowns on it, but it does not say that adorable English teachers should get a flogging for allowing some little kid to name a teddy after himself.