Middle east shmiddle east, we can have a war right here !

Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S. 150 Years Ago

Anyone want to run with this one? Or does this belong in the news of the weird thread?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S. 150 Years Ago
Thursday, December 20, 2007


WASHINGTON — The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States.

"We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us,'' long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means said.

A delegation of Lakota leaders has delivered a message to the State Department, and said they were unilaterally withdrawing from treaties they signed with the federal government of the U.S., some of them more than 150 years old.

The group also visited the Bolivian, Chilean, South African and Venezuelan embassies, and would continue on their diplomatic mission and take it overseas in the coming weeks and months.

Lakota country includes parts of the states of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming.

The new country would issue its own passports and driving licences, and living there would be tax-free - provided residents renounce their U.S. citizenship, Mr Means said.

The treaties signed with the U.S. were merely "worthless words on worthless paper," the Lakota freedom activists said.

Withdrawing from the treaties was entirely legal, Means said.

"This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically article six of the constitution,'' which states that treaties are the supreme law of the land, he said.

"It is also within the laws on treaties passed at the Vienna Convention and put into effect by the US and the rest of the international community in 1980. We are legally within our rights to be free and independent,'' said Means.

The Lakota relaunched their journey to freedom in 1974, when they drafted a declaration of continuing independence — an overt play on the title of the United States' Declaration of Independence from England.

Thirty-three years have elapsed since then because "it takes critical mass to combat colonialism and we wanted to make sure that all our ducks were in a row,'' Means said.

One duck moved into place in September, when the United Nations adopted a non-binding declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples — despite opposition from the United States, which said it clashed with its own laws.

"We have 33 treaties with the United States that they have not lived by. They continue to take our land, our water, our children,'' Phyllis Young, who helped organize the first international conference on indigenous rights in Geneva in 1977, told the news conference.

The U.S. "annexation'' of native American land has resulted in once proud tribes such as the Lakota becoming mere "facsimiles of white people,'' said Means.

Oppression at the hands of the U.S. government has taken its toll on the Lakota, whose men have one of the shortest life expectancies - less than 44 years - in the world.

Lakota teen suicides are 150 per cent above the norm for the U.S.; infant mortality is five times higher than the U.S. average; and unemployment is rife, according to the Lakota freedom movement's website.

Didn't we put these people down a long time ago? This is what happens when you leave survivors... :laugh4:

lol, funny.

Oh man. If they overturn the treaties with the U.S. government, doesn't that mean they are on land otherwise claimed by the U.S. government? Since many of them were evicted from their own land, they were given land already claimed by the U.S., many of the tribes probably have no historical affiliation with the land that they reside on currently, having lost their homeland 100 years ago.

What is the status of the land without the treaties?

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

What is the status of the land without the treaties?

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Thats a good question. I dont have time to look into it as I am having another snow storm here in MA (hey Don Corleone you reading this? hows your back? :laugh4: )

My first instinct tells me that a defacto state of war would exsist.

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Originally Posted by Odin

Thats a good question. I dont have time to look into it as I am having another snow storm here in MA (hey Don Corleone you reading this? hows your back? :laugh4: )

My first instinct tells me that a defacto state of war would exsist.

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I think so. We can offer the option of integration or deportation since their reservations are no longer theirs. Maybe if they refuse to move we can use force to remove them. They are no longer protected as citizens.

Just food for thought.


PS - Can anyone else find a confirmation story? I can't except for in wikipedia. Reuters doesn't even have it.

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

I think so. We can offer the option of integration or deportation since their reservations are no longer theirs. Maybe if they refuse to move we can use force to remove them. They are no longer protected as citizens.

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They declared a part of the US as their own country, ie. no loner yours, so it would be non-natives who are deported...

I do remember hearing something weird that according to some older treaties, native Americans can in theory buy up large parts of northern US lands for a extremely low price due to inflation.

I cant do more research on this right now I have to provide a taxi service for a friend.

I'd be much obliged if someone with some spare time could dig a bit into the treaties and maybe post some specifics?

Otherwise if my rudementary understanding is correct we need to redelpoy forces out of the middle east back to the home front to combat this new threat to the republic. :wiseguy:

Lakota Treaties

to repeal "150" years of treaties would only repeal the Fort Laramie Treaty of 1868 and the un-ratified agreement of 1882 according to this list.

Someone can correct me here, but I don't believe that most native americans were ever truly granted full "citizen" status in the US, even though they're basically treated as such?

Regardless if they are or aren't, I'd say that in this day and age, they really are for all intents and purposes US citizens, and these "indian reservations" are simply specific land grants to them that have "special" status. So in effect, these "treaties" are really just legacy pieces of paper which I personally would not ascribe much or any value to at all.

Thus, the Lakota have decided to "tear up" the old treaties, fine. In my mind that is tantamount to renouncing one's citizenship, and they'd henceforth be deported. have a nice day, thanx 4 playing lole, etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Odin

My first instinct tells me that a defacto state of war would exsist.

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That being the case, all I would have to say to them is: Good luck with that guys. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

That being the case, all I would have to say to them is: Good luck with that guys. :laugh4:

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I doubt they need luck, it shouldn't bee too hard...

Just stay away from hospitals and weddings, and you're safe from any bombs... :laugh4:

Detailed list of Lakota grievances can be found here.

If they're clever they'll ask China and Russia to support their cause... :eyebrows:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Oh wait, am I just planning the doom of the country I want to visit next year? :sweatdrop:

Well if one tribe does it others can follow. I hope they dont get their own country. If they want one so bad than fight for it.


Their are plenty of mid-westerners here that would love to play John Wayne and fight injuns...

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Someone can correct me here, but I don't believe that most native americans were ever truly granted full "citizen" status in the US, even though they're basically treated as such?

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Well theirs the forthaddmendment then this from wiki

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The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 gave United States citizenship to Native Americans, in part because of an interest by many to see them merged with the American mainstream, and also because of the heroic service of many Native American veterans in World War I.

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So in effect, these "treaties" are really just legacy pieces of paper which I personally would not ascribe much or any value to at all.

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If you personally would not ascribe any value at all to it is irrelevant , since your courts have agreed to its values and your government put a cash value on buying out clauses of the treaties , though of course the Sioux declined the cash option and wanted their agreed signed entitlements instead .

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. In my mind that is tantamount to renouncing one's citizenship, and they'd henceforth be deported. gtfo, have a nice day, thanx 4 playing lole, etc etc.

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errrrrr....where would you deport someone to who doesn't come from somewhere else ?

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

If you personally would not ascribe any value at all to it is irrelevant , since your courts have agreed to its values and your government put a cash value on buying out clauses of the treaties , though of course the Sioux declined the cash option and wanted their agreed signed entitlements instead .


errrrrr....where would you deport someone to who doesn't come from somewhere else ?

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The moon?

They don't need an army, they have the international press. The US government will be scratching their heads on what to do about this one I should think.

Great White Father will buy them off, ultimately (i.e. settle for billions in cash for de-facto abrogating the treaties).

IMO

Around the year 2017.

You read it here first.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Great White Father will buy them off, ultimately (i.e. settle for billions in cash for de-facto abrogating the treaties).

IMO

Around the year 2017.

You read it here first.

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Digging them all government graves would probably be cheaper, but that ship has sailed.

It's a sad fact, but yeah, with global communications and ubiquitous video, genocide just doesn't go over like it used to.

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

errrrrr....where would you deport someone to who doesn't come from somewhere else ?

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"Native" is a misnomer. The indians traveled to the americas from elsewhere as well, over the frozen Bearing Straight, iirc.

If they don't want to be a part of this country, send them to Alaska where they will be given ships and provisions(its the least we can do after completely sweeping the floor with them), and set them afloat. Good luck in Asia.. :idea2:

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Originally Posted by Lemur

It's a sad fact, but yeah, with global communications and ubiquitous video, genocide just doesn't go over like it used to.

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Kind of hard to call it genocide when they were the ones to declare war. Not to mention is the punishment for treason not death?

This is actually really interesting. Seems almost blindingly moronic on the side of the lakota to do this. But they seem to be out seeking international help also. With the UN agreements this might actually turn out ugly both ways.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

"Native" is a misnomer. The indians traveled to the americas from elsewhere as well, over the frozen Bearing Straight, iirc.

If they don't want to be a part of this country, send them to Alaska where they will be given ships and provisions(its the least we can do after completely sweeping the floor with them), and set them afloat. Good luck in Asia.. :idea2:

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Well if you go that far back, why not just send them to that valley in Africa where we all came from?

No wait, the US is christian, I guess that means they have to be deported to the garden of eden, right?

At least, they signed treaties, whatever good it made for them… I think the Seminoles are still officially in war with the US of A…
And I don’t know what will happen if all countries claim compensation to the US for no respect of treaty? Too late for Louis the XVI, anyway…:yes:

Louis XVI died heedless of things like these...

More tribes will have to follow or the this protest will just die out before the end of the year. What good is renouncing treaties when you're not numerous enough to make some impact.

just grant them a whisky distillery.

the old white mans hard liquor will sort them out!