If This Ain't Entrapment, I Don't Know What Is

Looks like our police have lots of time on their hands, between staking out airport bathrooms and hanging out topless in public parks.

Picture the scenario: A topless sunbather says "Hi." She invites you over to chat. She rests her foot on your shoulder. After a while, she asks to see your willy. When you oblige, police burst out of cover and arrest you for lewd behavior.

I take it that the police in Coulmbus, Ohio have the rape, robbery and murder situation all under control?

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...t_071227_m.jpg

Topless Woman Lured Perverts in Police Sting

Firefighter Busted for Exposing Himself to Sunbather Appeals 'Entrapment' Conviction

By MARCUS BARAM, Dec. 28, 2007

Robin Garrison, an off-duty 42-year-old firefighter, was walking in Berliner Park in Columbus, Ohio, in May when he saw a woman sunbathing topless under a tree.

He approached her and they started talking and getting comfortable, the woman smiling and resting her foot on his shoulder at one point.

Eventually, she asked to see Garrison's penis; he unzipped his pants and complied.

Seconds later, undercover police officers pulled up in a van and arrested Garrison; he was later charged with public indecency, a misdemeanor, based on video footage taken by cops who were targeting men having sex or masturbating in the park. While topless sunbathing is legal in the city's parks, exposing more than that is against the law.

The case is just one of the more extreme examples of police stings aimed at luring people into committing crimes, a tactic that has resulted in hundreds of arrests, many convictions and plenty of controversy.

Law enforcement officials say that such sting operations are an extremely effective means of lowering crime rates and stopping the criminally minded before they commit worse offenses. From early 2006 to the spring of 2007, there were 160 citations for public indecency in the city, according to an investigation by 10TV News. Among those who were caught in the stings: an Ohio State University doctor, government employees and a retired highway trooper.

But such operations veer dangerously close to entrapment, say lawyers, civil libertarians and defendants who've been caught in sting operations.

At Garrison's trial, his attorney argued that it was a case of entrapment. "Columbus police utilized this topless woman to snare this man," said Sam Shamansky. "He sees her day after day. He's not some seedy pervert."

The argument failed to sway a Franklin County Municipal Court jury that found Garrison guilty of public indecency last month. He was ordered to stay away from the park, placed on a year's probation and fined $250. Currently, Garrison remains on paid desk duty while the fire department conducts an internal investigation into his behavior.

"We want to be held to a higher standard, we are in the community every day and we put our best foot forward, but sometimes we stumble and make a mistake," said Columbus Fire Battalion Chief Doug Smith.

Garrison could not be reached for comment.

Shamansky plans to appeal the verdict on the grounds that the jury wasn't instructed on the definition of entrapment.

Other police departments across the country have dangled other temptations, from big-screen plasma TVs, Xbox 360 consoles and a shopping bag containing a cell phone and an iPod to catch people breaking the law.

In New York City, nearly 300 people, many of whom had no criminal record, have been snared this year through the NYPD's Operation Lucky Bag, in which undercover officers leave a wallet, iPod or cell phone in a subway station and wait to see who picks it up.

Although deputy police Commissioner Paul Browne says the program has helped cut subway grand larcenies by half, critics say that the police have gone too far.

"It's pretty straightforward that this is a police-created crime," said Legal Aid Society lawyer Alex Lesman, who defended a man arrested for taking a bag containing an Xbox video game box, a Sprint cell phone and cash. "The police set this whole thing up. They shouldn't be doing that and luring people in that situation, especially in this age of terrorism where the transit system is always telling you to be on the lookout for suspicious bags."

The judge agreed with Lesman, acquitting his client, Antonio Arroyo. "The police should concentrate their noble efforts on behalf of the city on countering real crimes committed every day," wrote Kings County criminal court judge Matthew A. Sciarrino Jr. "They do not need to manipulate a situation where temptation may overcome even people who would normally never think of committing a crime."

Other lawyers have argued on behalf of their clients that the operation may also violate New York's personal property law, which allows someone who finds property worth more than $25 10 days to turn it in to the owner or the police.

An NYPD spokesperson emphasized that Operation Lucky Bag does not use abandoned property; rather it is property actively left by an officer who is still in the vicinity. In addition, it is used at stations where similar crimes have been reported.

Another sting operation that made headlines involved police in El Paso, Texas, and U.S. Marshals sending out messages to wanted felons stating that they had "won" free Xbox 360 consoles and/or big-screen plasma TVs. The operation led to 115 arrests last month and the police picked up more than $25,000 in traffic fines.

This ploy, which has been used in other cities in recent years, is a new twist on an old trick, because sting operations involving drugs and prostitutes have been around for decades. And though defendants often claim entrapment, that argument rarely works in those kind of cases.

"The definition of entrapment is police activity that induces somebody to commit a crime that they otherwise wouldn't do," said Gabriel Chin, law professor at the University of Arizona. "It's not entrapment to give somebody an opportunity to commit a crime."

Chin explains that entrapment involves an officer cajoling and persuading someone who's resistant to the idea of committing a crime. "Just preying on a predisposition is not necessarily entrapment."

But he said that Operation Lucky Bag seemed to cross a line, especially when compared to longstanding police operations involving officers posing as drunks to lure muggers to take their wallets or jewelry.

"Very few people who see a drunk with gold chains or an old lady with money sticking out of her purse succumb to temptation and assault that person," he said. "But lots and lots of people wouldn't turn in a wallet when it's full of money. You could ask whether it's an appropriate use of police resources. If we really want to criminalize people who do what we don't want them to do, a lot of people would be in jail."

The temptation may just be too powerful. "I've found $5 on the street and put it in my pocket," said Chin. "If I found $5,000 on the street, I hope I would do something different."

Oh man...:sweatdrop:

comon who wouldnt oblige?

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Originally Posted by Boyar Son

comon who wouldnt oblige?

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Liberace? :inquisitive: :laugh4:

Guess what state Dennis Kucinichis from. Welcome to Ohio. ~:wave:

The police video is posted here. What a pathetic waste of police time and manpower. I suppose the firefighter will now be classified as a sexual offender for the rest of his life, right?

It seems to me like the disrespect some give to their local police forces in America may be warranted. I've always laughed at people who say things like that, but it seems to me they may have a valid point. I really haven't seen police forces like that. A few pushy officers, yes, but at the end of a long day that's only to be expected.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

The police video is posted here. What a pathetic waste of police time and manpower. I suppose the firefighter will now be classified as a sexual offender for the rest of his life, right?

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Wow, what a textbook case of entrapment. And a total waste of resources. Of course, seeing that this is from Columbus, none of it surprises me. :no:

"Sir, put your ha....wait...don't."


I have to say that is entrapment. If someone was smoking a cigarette and offered my marijuana, there is a line, and they just crossed it.

Moral: Don't trust women.

What the...
Don't they have anything better to do ??

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Originally Posted by Lemur

In New York City, nearly 300 people, many of whom had no criminal record, have been snared this year through the NYPD's Operation Lucky Bag, in which undercover officers leave a wallet, iPod or cell phone in a subway station and wait to see who picks it up.

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I must be missing something... what is illegal/ a crime in picking up something from the floor/from a chair, when there isn't anyone around ? How do they know the person picking it up isn't gonna return it to the police ?

I guess those police think that any lone man is a potential sex offender.
Meanwhile, there are people getting shot in the US.

HILARIOUS !

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Originally Posted by Sinan

HILARIOUS !

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Is so, until you realize a man's life might be ruined if the scums put him on the death sex offenders' list, an equivalent of pariah status in the United States in many situations...

:stars:

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Originally Posted by Blodrast

I must be missing something... what is illegal/ a crime in picking up something from the floor/from a chair, when there isn't anyone around ? How do they know the person picking it up isn't gonna return it to the police ?

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Those were my thoughts too ~:(

I really do hope that all these cases are quashed in court; they're just cases of police wasting their time and public money.

It brings to mind the local police here, who've set up a static speed camera on a bridge in the inner city - for "public safety", of course. The fact that it would reportedly net upwards of $70000 per day (at least until people learned it was there) had nothing to do with it, I'm sure...

And my Euro-compadres wonder why we're just a LITTLE skeptical about leaving personal safety in the hands of the police?

It's this kind of example of their wonderful use of resources. :wall:

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

And my Euro-compadres wonder why we're just a LITTLE skeptical about leaving personal safety in the hands of OUR police?

It's this kind of example of their wonderful use of resources. :wall:

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there...fixed it for you...

over here the police don´t pull this sort of stunt...they have better things to do.

I agree that it´s entrapment and a total waste of police resources :no:

This is the part where I usually jump in and say things like: "You have to understand where they're coming from...", "...a crime is a crime, is a crime. Don't want it? Exercise your franchise and change the law!...", and other pro-police platitudes.

But in this case, I got

nuttin'.

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Originally Posted by kukri

But in this case, I got

nuttin'.

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Those were probably displayed as well.


Ronin:

The problem is that, as heavily bureacratized organizations, police forces can really be somewhat disconnected from their own populations. No longer "our" but "the" as I phrased it. It's an aspect of bureacratic organizations that Hannah Arendt talked about under the label "structural violence."

This would never have happened in Mayberry.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

... It's an aspect of bureacratic organizations that Hannah Arendt talked about under the label "structural violence."

This would never have happened in Mayberry.

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Unless he were in charge:

https://jimcee.homestead.com/knotts02-mayberry.jpg

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Originally Posted by sapi

It brings to mind the local police here, who've set up a static speed camera on a bridge in the inner city - for "public safety", of course. The fact that it would reportedly net upwards of $70000 per day (at least until people learned it was there) had nothing to do with it, I'm sure...

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Well, with a speed camera I wouldn't complain. All you need to do is go the right speed, +/- five km/h or so, and you'll be fine. That's hardly entrapment.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

And my Euro-compadres wonder why we're just a LITTLE skeptical about leaving personal safety in the hands of the police?

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This was my first thought, too. Mind you, our coppers would be keen to try out that sort of thing too, but the judiciary would stamp on them.

Thus, I would offer that the problem may not be the police force, but your legal system. To an interested outsider, the courts over there seem to have significant problems with delivering real justice - as in decisions that are just, but go against the popular or governmental fiat. Plea bargaining, localised racial intolerance, religious pressure groups, and so on appear to undermine your justice system. Appeal to the Constitution tends not to be available in most cases because of cost, and no doubt time.

This story would seem to be a minor example - the judge appears to allow such behaviours and doesn't throw the whole thing out of court, embarrass the police and award costs against them.

It's a long tradition of police forces across the globe to "fit villains up" because they just know they're villains. Indeed, most police consider every citizen a prospective villain. It is for the courts to stop them and set their boundaries.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

On the personal safety tangent, I should ask where is the constitutionally guaranteed armed rising against an oppressive government? Waiting for the Hildabeast to attain office? :devil:

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Originally Posted by Boyar Son

comon who wouldnt oblige?

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She'd seriously have to talk to me for quite a while and bring up some very cinvincing arguments (no, not those! :laugh4: ) to make me do that.
That stuff down there is my very secret and only special people and doctors get to see it. ~;p

But Lemur is probably right, there should be more important things to care about than people who do what a lady tells them.

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Originally Posted by sapi

It brings to mind the local police here, who've set up a static speed camera on a bridge in the inner city - for "public safety", of course. The fact that it would reportedly net upwards of $70000 per day (at least until people learned it was there) had nothing to do with it, I'm sure...

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Those things, along with their red-light camera brethren are nothing but government cash machines, plain and simple. :no:

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

Indeed, most police consider every citizen a prospective villain.

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That's clearly the case in the OP. People with clean criminal backgrounds are being lured into "crime" by police with too much time on their hands. It's really disgusting.

I will never do that again...

Where lies the line between a sting operation and entrapment? I imagine that it's the point where a crime wouldn't have happened if the controlled situation' wasn't there. A car thief trying to steal a monitored car is in my eyes legal but the police asking people to commit a (small) crime certainly isn't.

In Belgium sting operations in itself are illegal because of the same reasoning above. The car thief wouldn't have stolen that car if it wasn't there. This doesn't take into account that the person could've been 'on the hunt' so that the thief still would've committed a theft.

I prefer the sting operations as a legal instrument for the police, however with a judicial branch that keeps a close eye on whether or not the police tricked the accused in committing a crime.

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Originally Posted by Peasant Phill

Where lies the line between a sting operation and entrapment? I imagine that it's the point where a crime wouldn't have happened if the controlled situation' wasn't there. A car thief trying to steal a monitored car is in my eyes legal but the police asking people to commit a (small) crime certainly isn't.

In Belgium sting operations in itself are illegal because of the same reasoning above. The car thief wouldn't have stolen that car if it wasn't there. This doesn't take into account that the person could've been 'on the hunt' so that the thief still would've committed a theft.

I prefer the sting operations as a legal instrument for the police, however with a judicial branch that keeps a close eye on whether or not the police tricked the accused in committing a crime.

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Yeah, I think the main difference between a sting and entrapment is that in a sting the police just sit back and wait for someone to do something wrong, and then arrest them, and in entrapment they put up a neon sign saying "FREE CAR" and then arrest you for taking the car.