The Seleucids

I have always found the Seleucids to be extraordinarily difficult to play. I have always attempted to keep all of the starting territory, and I have always found myself without enough soldiers to cover it, without enough tax money to get new soldiers and spending all that I can save on city improvements to keep the populations in the green.

But today, I embarked upon a different strategy. Instead of one of continuity, the first thing I did was pull back all of my forces from East of the modern-day Zagros Mountains. I destroyed all of the improvements in those cities I could and recouped some cash and then I turned up the taxes to full.

While my empire was cut in half within a few turns, I have found it much easier to preserve the remainder and have managed to expand into Ptolemy and Pontic territory in Asia Minor with the extra troops I pulled out of the East.

I figure that when I have built up an excess of funds and a couple sizable military forces, I can easily reconquer that which I let go, minus what other parties have captured in the meantime unless I am ready to commit to a war of conquest.

Thoughts?

You got it right on cue. At the start you empire is already in decline so it is best to hold onto the cities with econimic and military importance and abandon all else. a good idea is too keep a province near Baktria and Pahlava install a level 4 gov (allied state?) and use them as an outpost to keep the 2 factions in check.

I've never had problems with the eastern cities in my seleucid campaigns.

My starting tactic is usually like this:
- change the capitol to Seleukeia
- adjust taxes (very high where possible, low in the rebellious cities)
- get some extra cash by selling my map to the ptolies
- get some cash by destroying all granaries (population growth is usually much faster than I need/like it and they can easily be rebuild later)
- disband the fleets and some unnecessary units
- move as many units as possible to the western front
- kick the ptolies out of Asia Minor and the phoenician coast as fast as possible, your starting units are enough for this
- focus on building roads and first lvl regional MICs everywhere
- then focus on building mines and - where necessary - public order buildings, so that you can increase taxes everywhere

With this tactic you can become really powerful within the first ten years. I usually expand into Asia Minor and the rebel controlled East and then attack either Egypt or my eastern Allies. Actually the AS is one of the few factions you can play without ever going into the negative.

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Thoughts?

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Its not really realistic.
In real world you would most likely got assassinated if you try to force this.

Give up half of our territories? NEVER!

Change the capital to Susa immediately, then build law related buildings in cities until they are reasonably stable, then build mines, as many as possible. Removing corruption is every bit as important as building mines at the start.

In asia minor (modern turkey), give the Ptolies a kicking until they go home. Ensure that Galatia rebels to the gauls with help from your spies (if taken by Pontus). Do NOT send spies to upset Baktria, Parthia or the Armenians. Tribute of 100-200 Dn when possible seems to help. I have reached 230BC with not a single incident with those groups. At one stage the Armenians had a full stack with faction leader next to one of my northern cities (chasing rebels) guarded by a client ruler and skirmisher, and didn't even look like taking interest in it.

Naturally all the time, build up armies in problem areas. Initially native phalanx, a general, 2-3 units of slingers and 2 peltesta should be more than adequate for any threat. Have one of these in the east, west and south (antioch). Pushing the Ptolies back out of Judea is a priority as they simply will not leave you alone. Take Cyprus, and if you do not keep it, give it to a good ally who is at risk of being punted early on. Usually I try to help the Maks who have been cripplied in EB1.0.

Along the way, all should settle and the world is your oyster.. enjoy!

Sounds a fun mod, thoughts?

I have a really amusing and good Seleukid campaign (Hard/Hard). I managed to destroy Bakteria ,Pahlava and Hayasdan within first 10 years of my campaign ! All you need is some courage and to be aggressive.
I successfully implemented the Blitkrieg tactic for my both Pahlava and Seleukid campaigns. Neutralising as much threats as possible at the beginning.
Now I'm a billion manoi(dollar) emperor :laugh4:

My Tactic for Seleucids:

Give up the 4 or 5 cities in the Northeast that are revolting, destroy every building there, destroy the few soldiers that camp around there and start creating mass-armies in Sardis and Antiocheia, who are going to rush ptolies...

If you crush them before they get their freaking galatians and elite-pikeman you will be fine, and able to re-conquer your towns in the east.

Next kill the Pontians... they will treat you as soon as they can... leave the Hayasdan as a client vs. the sarmatians, and then go to greece ^^

well thats my tactic for seleucids ^^

Problem with those 'freaking galatians' is that, in fact, the Ptolemies start with the MICs to recruit them IIRC.

I never change the location of my capital (only exception would be a loss of it to invaders - but that never happened so far :sweatdrop: ). I know that it will help you a lot, especially with the Seleukides, but I think you imbalance the game by doing this because revolts in the east and west are the main difficulty in playing the - all in all oversized and too powerful to be interesting - seleukids. Otherwise it's too easy and - in my humble opinion - a bit boring. I can also agree with LorDBulA

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Its not really realistic.
In real world you would most likely got assassinated if you try to force this.

Give up half of our territories? NEVER!

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This is especially true because many of the secondary troops of the Seleukids are locals, and many of your Phalangites (klerouchoi and the natives) are also committed to the area they come from because they have been given land (a so called kleros) of which they make their living and pay their equipment. So my advice is: let the rebels come against you. You still can cut your losses and make a forced retreat, but don't give up without a fight.
:book: But there is also an argument for your tactic: the Seleukids (Seleukos I himself) once gave away large part of his territory in india (Gedrosia, Arachosia) to Chandragupta, an indian king, but only in exchange against about 500 war-elefants. So probably, if somebody makes you quite an offer... . With about 500 elefants one could care about the :egypt: - at last, if you are more lucky than Selekos I.

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Problem with those 'freaking galatians' is that, in fact, the Ptolemies start with the MICs to recruit them IIRC.

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Rly? In my last 5 games the Ptolies send masses of Galatians after 2 years or so... until then alexandria must have fallen ^^

the seleucids being my favourite faction they're also the hardest. their empire is huge BUT population is so low - especially in the core regions around mesopotamia - and taxes dont get any money, further more half of the empire is rebellious, strong enemies lie to the south while rapidly agressive empires grow in the east.

i used to kick out the ptolies first which proved quite easy when commanding armies yourself. but then the baktrians had to attack me in the far east and ever since they keep bugging me there.

my best seleukid game made me have an empire from india to pergamum. i subdued carthage by sacking their whole empire from lepki to corsica and gave it all away to the romans (making a buffer). my armies have marched east and taken half of teh territories of the pahlava and drove the baktrians to the far north, they only exist because they're a buffer against the annoying saka. the year is 218 BCE... IM BROKE... well its to say... i have an empire from india to the shores of greece and i make hardly enough money to make more than 2 buildings/turn and maintain my SMALL army which is on the defensive against the baktrians and sabae (where the f*** do those full stacked armies keep coming from??? baktria has 1 YES 1 friggin province and still 2 full stacked armies :wall: ). how come the biggest empire in the world is having a hard time subduing bedouin tribes attacking bostra...

when i'm playing the romans and have half the empire i have now i can build multiple defence and offense armies while still builing up my economy. its just not fair... i'm the friggin basileus of the world !!! :furious3:


the seleukid finances are just terrible, on my next try, i'll give up the east and focus on the west, where true wealth lies. :2thumbsup:

AS is certainly not easy, but they are definitely not the hardest. Pontus and Hayasdan for instance are way harder.

Well the Seleucid's are definetly fun to play, and not to difficult.
I believe that their finances are pretty solid... You just need to take out the ptolies in Asia Minor and the Levant...

P.S for Marodeur
AFAIK the Seleucid had 2 capitals, Antiochia and Seleukia, with Seleukia being the more important one till 240 BC. So techically changing the capital to Seleukia on the Tigris isn't ahistorical.
Dunno why the seleucid start with Antiochia as their capital.... Probably to try and convince the AI that Asia Minor and the Levant are more important then the eastern deserts and rainforests:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Gaius Valerius

when i'm playing the romans and have half the empire i have now i can build multiple defence and offense armies while still builing up my economy. its just not fair... i'm the friggin basileus of the world !!!

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Sea trade makes the difference. With the Romans all your towns have access to the sea and have sufficent trading partners all around, either other towns of yours or big foreign cities like Carthage. For example, with Taras alone you will make some 2,000 mne in trading short after conquest.

With the Seleucids most of your towns are midland or along coasts where no good trading partners are around. From an economic point of view you should concentrate on the West: Secure all around the Aegean including the islands. With the mines and the sea trade you will make enough money to run your empire.

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Originally Posted by konny

Sea trade makes the difference. With the Romans all your towns have access to the sea and have sufficent trading partners all around, either other towns of yours or big foreign cities like Carthage. For example, with Taras alone you will make some 2,000 mne in trading short after conquest.

With the Seleucids most of your towns are midland or along coasts where no good trading partners are around. From an economic point of view you should concentrate on the West: Secure all around the Aegean including the islands. With the mines and the sea trade you will make enough money to run your empire.

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Is trade really that profitable? I have never actually noticed one way or the other.

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Originally Posted by Dhampir

Is trade really that profitable? I have never actually noticed one way or the other.

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Just take a look on the trade details page of your sea cities: you often make more money by trade in these cities than by tax.

I think that should be fixed no? I mean historically the Seleucids weren't exactly short of money aigh?


Cheers...

Must not be fixed IMHO. The Seleucids had serious domestic problems throughout their entire regin that cannot be displayed with the RTW engine. So beeing short of money is the best way to create an empire in EB that is looking much stronger than it is.

Didn't thought of it that way... Well, it can always be displayed by the low public order and all. I haven't played extensivly with them in 1.0 but in .80 Once I started to make money it was like exponential afterwards... It was amazing really and I was able to field the "nicer" units...

Cheers...

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

Problem with those 'freaking galatians' is that, in fact, the Ptolemies start with the MICs to recruit them IIRC.

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Alexandria has MIC 3, but Galatians require a 4. It's just a matter of a few years in which the AI upgrades them.

Most problematic seems to be the MIC sharing with AS, I think. It allows the Ptolees to raise and retrain their units immediatly after conquest in every town. That is the reason behind their speed of expansion.

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Originally Posted by konny

Most problematic seems to be the MIC sharing with AS, I think. It allows the Ptolees to raise and retrain their units immediatly after conquest in every town. That is the reason behind their speed of expansion.

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Agreed. But the seleucid get the same advantage if they manage to control the Levant