graphics problems, even in BIOS

Okay, this is a quick summary of things right now, detail is in spoiler tags below (originally posted elsewhere ~:))

Connecting the graphics card to the monitor over DVI gives the 'signal out of range' error.

Connecting it over VGA works, but shows visible distortion in the BIOS (white dots/lines over the screen).

Installing the official driver will cause windows to crash on bootup, blaming the display driver.

Letting windows install its driver will do the same; the only one that works is the generic VGA one you automatically boot to.

Booting up the system in PCLinuxOS (over VGA, I happened to have a liveCD lieing around) shows a huge amount of distortion on the screen. Once it gets to the 'select keyboard type' screen, the monitor is covered by random distorted clutter, and I can only see anything at all by moving the mouse over part of the image (like when an application lags out, highlighting something makes it, but nothing else, show up).

I think my graphics card is dieing - can anyone suggest anything to the contrary? :(

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hmm, well that was odd. I'm writing from an old computer that we happened to have lieing around, because my main computer has decided that, after a graphics driver crash in tf2 (screen went black, had to hard reset - it's happened before, with recovery possible), not to display anything :P

Even during the BIOS boot, the monitor displays 'Out of Range, H-frequency 65 KHz, V-frequency 56 Hz.

It posts correctly, and from what I can hear, almost appears to be booting correctly too.

The problem is, I can't see anything :(

I'm going to try it on this monitor now (will need to shut this down to do so, hence no results yet), and if that fails, I suppose resetting the CMOS won't hurt.

Else I'm forced to go for professional help :(

Any blinding flashes of insight, anyone? :)

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Well, that was even more odd.

The computer booted fine using this old CRT monitor, and I elected to go into safe mode.

I uninstalled the graphics driver, rebooted, and replaced it with the newest version that I happened to have sitting in my downloads folder.

However, now booting while not in safe mode (ie, off the nvidia driver) gives a BSOD naming nvlddmkm.sys (the nvidia vista display driver) as the culprit :(

Oh, and oddly enough, there are a collection of white dots displaying during BIOS boot, scattered over the black background in groups of three vertical 'lines'.

:(

I guess my (only? :P) next step is to see if the other monitor will accept the signal from this, working, computer.

The crash-on-boot with the nvidia drivers has me puzzled, though :S

I would say it's time for a DX10.1 graphicscard. ~;)

I really hope not, it's not something which will help me right now (the current system is CPU-limited with a 3500+), especially as my budget doesn't stretch very far right now :grin2:

If they tell me it's dead, I'll ask them to flash the BIOS and pray, but I doubt it'll do much ~:)

That said, what would be the rough equivalent of a 7800gt in the current batch of nvidia cards? Synthetic benchmarks almost seem to suggest a 8600gt, but I've heard that doesn't hold up in real life performance. Would a 8600gts (256mb) be closer?

I really shouldn't have let myself fall out of date with the graphics market :laugh4:

Three things you need to try sapi.

First, try a different monitor that you know is working.

Second, swap out a different video card that you know is working.

Third, try both the good video card and monitor together. If you still have problems, try to re-flash your mobo bios. If that STILL doesn't work, then just give up because you're extra :daisy:ed at that point.:lam:

Your symptoms sound very close to what happened to me in the past when I had an older CRT bite the dust, so my guess would be your monitor is going bad.

Oh I thought my eyes came across a passage where you tested the monitor on another computer, if you didn't, listen to Whacker, he's a good man. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Whacker

Three things you need to try sapi.

First, try a different monitor that you know is working.

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Check. The signal is identical over VGA to this monitor as it is over VGA to a CRT I had lieing around in another room; it's distorted during boot (the black background of the BIOS POST checks had white flecks on it), and testing PCLinuxOS on this computer over VGA showed massive distortion.

Do VGA connections have higher tolerances to signal fluctuations or something? Because I'm struggling to come up with a reason that the VGA input would work, shoddily, while the DVI didn't (by the way, by 'VGA input' I really mean a VGA-DVI converter sitting on my usual output)

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Second, swap out a different video card that you know is working.

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I don't have a spare PCIE one unfortunately; certainly that'll be my first instruction once I've got it down at the shop tomorrow :yes:

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Your symptoms sound very close to what happened to me in the past when I had an older CRT bite the dust, so my guess would be your monitor is going bad.

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I would have thought the same actually, except that the problem first appeared after a graphics driver related BSOD, and the image isn't good on the second monitor (I mean, it's as readable as it is now, writing from my primary monitor over VGA...at 1280x1024 on a widescreen ~:(...but it's still not as good as it was). The collections of white vertical lines over the BIOS background are what worry me :wall:

If you end up having to get a new video card, I highly recommend an 8800GT 512mb. They can run pretty much every game out there at maxed graphics (yes, even Crysis) and they will continue to perform very well for a couple years. In addition, while they're not a budget purchase, they're not insanely expensive either, and you can pick one up for $250 USD. For a card that can run anything at maxed settings, that's a very good price. It will pay for itself in the long run.

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I would have thought the same actually, except that the problem first appeared after a graphics driver related BSOD, and the image isn't good on the second monitor (I mean, it's as readable as it is now, writing from my primary monitor over VGA...at 1280x1024 on a widescreen ~:(...but it's still not as good as it was). The collections of white vertical lines over the BIOS background are what worry me :wall:

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OK, I just realized I didn't catch all of your initial post. :wall: Now I'd agree, it's almost starting to sound like your vid card is going bad. I'm sure you know they build those things at the factory with a certain amount of smoke, and if you let it out, well that's just not good mmmkay?

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I don't have a spare PCIE one unfortunately; certainly that'll be my first instruction once I've got it down at the shop tomorrow :yes:

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No spare vid card! Heathen! Get a real cheap one to try this with, because if we find out your card is bad, you can just return it and get a nicer one. I say get a cheap one, because there's always the possibility that your mobo is going bad, and it send the vid card some juice outside of it's electrical tolerances and caused the problems. You don't want to go buy a real nice $200 card and then have it fried too. (Not like this is the voice of experience talking either :embarassed:)

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Do VGA connections have higher tolerances to signal fluctuations or something? Because I'm struggling to come up with a reason that the VGA input would work, shoddily, while the DVI didn't (by the way, by 'VGA input' I really mean a VGA-DVI converter sitting on my usual output)

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Honestly I don't know for sure, but I *think* that any standard DVI port is capable of doing normal analog VGA signals. That, and DVI has tighter signal thresholds (strength, voltage, etc) and is less amenable to bad signals or hardware. VGA is old and as long as you feed the signal within the monitor's ranges and tolerances it'll "work". I'm not 100% sure about what I just said, someone else can correct me/keep me honest.

From what you're describing it seems like artifacts due to overheating memory/gpu. Have you tried underclocking and seeing if the problem goes away? Is the card overclocked? Check the fan on the card to see if it's spinning and also if the heatsink is clogged with dust.

As to the DVI/VGA difference. The VGA is an analog RGB signal so it will display something even if it's distorted and/or only displaying or two of the three channels, whereas DVI being digital can potentially black out altogether or show an out of range error if there is a fault with the display adaptor.

Crashes pointing to the Nvidia display drivers are not always an indication of a driver problem. Malfunctioning hardware can still cause this and often does. Also the fact that you're getting it at the BIOS and when booting from another OS eliminates the driver anyway.