Keeping the Peace With the Pope

So I started my first campaign of M2TW yesterday and played for about 5 or 6 hours.

Anyway, I'm playing as HRE. I manage to build quite a sizeable army while sending out a couple of small armies to take rebel cities, early on. Soon, the Danish declare war on me so I decide to go on the offensive since my large army was not too far away. I attack their castle within a few turns and manage to take it easily. This was basically their only defense before their capital city. I take the few prisoners ransom (I think it was only like 5 or something) and they refuse. So I start marching up toward their capital. I decide to attack a smaller city that was on the coast thinking I could use it for a quick route to their capital (which I didn't end up using). Well after I take that city I get a message from the Pope saying I'm going to be Ex-Communicated if I don't stop attacking other Catholic factions. Which brings me to my question: Am I supposed to just stay on the defensive so I don't lose points with the Pope? Because they declared war on me by attacking one of my armies.

Anyway, I ended up destroying the Danish within a few turns and was ex-communicated. This caused me to march down to Rome and take it over, killing the Pope. I thought about assassinating him, but thought I'd make a statement to the next Pope (who I haven't had problems with yet haha).

This was probably a bad idea since I forgot to ally myself with Milan and they got pissed that I marched through their territory (and ended up killing my best general).

Sorry to make this so long, I just figured maybe a little back story could let you figure out my flaws and let me know how to play both sides so to speak. Thanks!

Step 1 is improve your reputation with the Pope to perfect, either by giving him money via diplomacy or territories, map information, etc.

Step 2 is select your target Catholic nation and attack them.

Step 3 is to watch for Papal warnings. If your relations are perfect you won't be warned with excommunication, only with a lower reputation with the Pope.

Step 4 is to restore your reputation with the Pope after he knocks it down. Give him all the same stuff as before until you're back to perfect.

Step 5 is smash the rest of the world.

The only problem with removing the Pope via armies is that your public order goes down due to excommunication and being at war with the Papacy. You can't get back to being at peace until a new Pope spawns, and if you're especially unlucky he'll ask some far away land for a new home and set up the new Papacy in Dublin, thus making it harder to get peace or kill him again.

:egypt:

Park a diplomat next to Rome and feed him money.

I think every faction gets a diplomat at the start of the game, and after you've got the basic trade rights/alliances with your neighbours, send him straight to Rome and offer 100 Florins and map info every turn as a gift. You should also be able to get an alliance with the Pope, and that is extremely useful.

As for the new Popes respawn positions, I'm not sure how that works. In my Venetian campaign I took Rome fairly early on, when there were still many rebel settlements, and I had a crusade declared on me, and I had an incredibly frustrating search all over the map before I eventually found him hiding in an ambush position in the island with Cagliari on it, a rebel settlement at the time.

In my Byzantine campaign however, I didn't take Rome until fairly late and there were probably no rebel settlements, and every Pope that generated did so somewhere in the Rome region.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

Park a diplomat next to Rome and feed him money.

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That's no joke.

Other ideas:

1. Play a Muslim faction. That's what I do.

2. Offer him an alliance very early. The earlier the better.

3. Stay on the defensive when attacked by a Catholic faction. In the situation you discribed, Denmark probably would have attacked you again and gotten excommunicated themselves.

4. Attack Catholic factions that have very low standing with the Pope. One reason I like to play Spain and Hungary is that they border Muslim and Orthodox factions respectively. You can expand against those with few problems. This has the added advantage of allowing you to build churches and priests. This makes the Pope happy and gives your priest piety, getting them elected Pope for their conversions of the populace.

Thanks for the help every one.

The new Pope asked for Rome back which I gave to him and I haven't had a problem with him. My task right now is to reclaim my capital (which will be hard because Milan cornered me down by Rome and wiped out most of my large army). I'll then go on the defensive for a few turns and try to get a diplomat to the new Pope just in case.

Then Milan will fall!

Thanks again!

Good luck.
Just keep handing the Pope a bit of cash every turn and he'll be your mate again soon. Then Milan is yours!!! :charge:

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Originally Posted by Doug-Thompson

2. Offer him an alliance very early. The earlier the better.

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If you want that then do not attack anyone (except rebels) and send your diplomat to Rome as fast as you can.
Alliance + occasionally diplomatic offers ( money, map info) + avoid starting wars with other catholics = Peace with the Pope

:2thumbsup:

i have the same problem as you but im wondering that how much money should you give the pope? i dont got that much cash to spare :no: and does it make any difference to give several times 100 or just once 1000?

One of the things I do is boost my rating up with el Padre, normally to perfect on the diplomacy sheet and full crosses on the papal overview, and i wait until one of my (catholic) enemies gets excommunicated. Following that I order a crusade on one of their settlements, and the Pope accepts, letting me ransack an enemy for free! A bonus of this if you order a crusade on a far away settlement and conquer every city and castle on the way you can practically destroy your enemy. By the time the crusade is over you have enough money to consolidate and your enemy is too weak to fight back.
:2thumbsup:

Give him enough to get perfect relations. Think of it as an investment, perfect relations means you can sack another half dozen AI settlements and get back ten times the cash you gave him easily.

Throwing in a promise to attack his enemies, even if it's just the rebels, and map information, military access (sometimes), and whatever else you can think of doesn't hurt either.

:egypt:

Don't do the crime, if you can't take the time.

~:wave:

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Originally Posted by cassu

i have the same problem as you but im wondering that how much money should you give the pope? i dont got that much cash to spare :no: and does it make any difference to give several times 100 or just once 1000?

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Welcome Cassu ~:wave:

I usually find a regular tribute of say 1000 florins for 10turns does the trick, literally every 2nd turn your rating on the pope-o-meter goes up. Even if you have a tight budget it is worth it

Here's how I fixed my status on several occasions with my Ventian campaign; Capture Rome, sack it, then send a diplomat to the remaining Papal state army/settlements and offer to give back Rome for reconcilliation a peace treaty and trade rights. This usually restores your standing, gets you out of war and gives you a nice cash boost.

Rinse and repeat each time you get excommunicated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cassu

i have the same problem as you but im wondering that how much money should you give the pope? i dont got that much cash to spare :no: and does it make any difference to give several times 100 or just once 1000?

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I do it in 100ƒ increments. If I get the "barely accepted" message with the whine "I guess we'll agree to this if we must," I offer another gift of another ƒ100. I also give him map information once in a while.

On a finer point that I'm not sure of, factions are reconciled when an old pope dies and a new one is elected -- unless there is a crusade in progress against them. The faction remains excommunicated until the Crusade is resolved. Somebody who plays Catholic factions more than I do needs to speak up on that.