No truces? No upgrades? Too many Greeks?

I have read with interest and dismay the info that i can not recruit local troops to defend Sardinia from the hated Carthos... Sigh. :laugh4: "Sardinian and Corsican units..."

I confess, I am new to the game, I am playing the Romani, and have set it at a very low setting to get the "feel," so more experienced players may laugh at my questions, and i understand that. Ok, so, I was wondering about a few quick things?

1) Preamble AI won't make truces??? I am the Romani, as I say. I had taken all of Italy and managed to establish a truce with Epiros after taking Taras. I also overran eastern Sicily from "rebel" Greeks, who steadfastly refused to make a pact of any kind with me!! Then, my "oldest and best friends," the now-hated Carthos, turned on me in 200 BC, and that after I had scrupulously avoided doing anything to offend them (there are so may "rebel" town to expand into that was easy -- I thought anyway)!! I quickly overran Lilibeo (western Sicily), Sardinia and Corsica (sorry for the modern terms but i am still learning!). I then offered them terms, and they refused!!! I learned a new "strategy" at that point.

In playing RTW I had learned if you drop an army onto the coast of Africa you will soon lose it, and any city you conquered. Instead I assembled a fleet and army in Sicily and "raided" Africa. I would seize a town, putting all the populace to the sword, and then "burn it to the ground." My "raiders" would then return to the ships, and treat the next town further west or east on the coast to the same "lesson." Within a short time my treasury was burgeoning, which i used to build those grossly expensive buildings one needs to expand, like mines and such, while quickly reducing the Carthos to impotence. With no ports they soon were driven from sea. I left spies on the mainland, and when one detects a new port built it is a sign it is time to repeat the lesson --- and add to my treasury!!

1) Question To this date (about 140 BC, or SIXTY years of war!) they have steadfastly refused any offer of a truce and trade rights, even if i try to sweeten the offer with cash!! Is the AI really that obstinate, and/or dumb?

2) Since THEY refused any truce, I have also seized the Balearic Isles from them (Bocchorros?), which brings us back to the thread, "Sardinian and Corsican units." The western Med is awash with Balearic Slinger "mercs," but I can not recruit any in my own town??? What's up with that???

3) Since the Carthos keep fighting, I have since overrun all their towns in Iberia too. That soon brought me into conflict with the Lusos, even tho' I scrupulously avoided entering their territory and offered them trade rights (I really am a sort of peaceful guy!). After THEY lost two towns to me they wisely entered a truce. So the AI WILL make SOME truces??

4) Preamble "Freed Slaves??" Mean-when, as resources permitted, I had conquered a few rebel strongholds in "southern" Gaul, and "Illyria" down to Epiros. About 175~ish, my ALLY (shades of the Carthos) the KH, turned on me; the blackguards! I destroyed no fewer than FIVE (5) armies they threw at me in Illyria, and they showed no signs of stopping; all offers of a truce were rejected. So, I hoped my "Carthaginian Strategy" would work here too; I seized Crete, and established it as a base of operations. Then i descended on their "strategic rear" and laid waste the Peloponnese, Athens, Chalkis, Halikarnasis, and Myletes. Rhodes i besieged, but have kept as second Aegean base.

4) Question Its now about 140 BC, the KH keep fighting, and I am trouncing them. But I am armpit deep in rocks and pebbles, and was wondering where the devil the KH got all these "freed slaves" of a sudden? Its not a big deal. My two armies currently rampaging into the western Aegean (I have conquered down to Pella now they are weakened) are trouncing them at each turn. BUT... why can't "I" raise any units of "freed slaves??"

5) Maybe I don't understand this MIC-mack thing too well. However, its 140 BC and while the rebels running around Italy have the Polybian reforms, "I" am still fighting with Camillan troops!!! What's up with that????????? IIRC, I am at MIC level 4 in Rome and Capua!

All advice and constructive comments greatly appreciated (its my first post!).

:2thumbsup:

1) Yes, it's common held knowledge that "AI" in RTW means "Artificial Idiocy". There's nothing modders can do about it. There is, however, a force diplomacy mod where you can, you guessed it, force the AI to accept your demands. You can find it in the modifications subforum.

3) Yes, sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. If you want a truce it helps if you don't share a border, because if you do, the AI is likely to go after you as if that was the only option they had, no matter the reality of their situation.

4) "Freed slaves" comes up when a city rebels to a faction's favour (like for example Massilia revolting to the KH). I don't think you can get them any other way (though that matters little, what with them being teh suck anyway, and expensive on the upkeep at that).

5) The FAQ explains the requirements to get the reforms (I, having never played a Romani campaign at all, couldn't tell you even if I wanted to). As for why rebels get polybian units, I don't recall the details but it has been answered before. Someone else will have to give you the details on that.

Many times the AI accept my truces, and some times, they offer me truces.
I'm a blitzer( don't know how to write ir, but is something about killing everything too fast). So, when the enemy is almost defeated, or when i don't atack them after many turns, like epeiros, when I kick them from Italy, they ask me truce, or accept my truces. And I play a very hard campaing.
You'r enemies must be with full power, and not harmed with your raids. You must become a true threat to them, once they realy fear you, they wil accept a truce, at least it is what happens with me :)

You should get the polybian reform unconditionally in 200 bc (or something like that) unless you did not have the script activated and that means you are not playing EB. Please refer to the FAQ.
G

Nighthawk: Just to make sure...are you activating the EB script each time you play?

Due to the fact that the RTW engine is specifically designed to use one model for multiple units (at least it allows for less model entries in the descr_model_battle.txt than it does for entries in export_descr_unit.txt) you will often find yourself puzzled by: why does faction X get units 1 thru 7 and why do I not? Or: why do the others get Reform units immediately?

The short answer is that it's a matter of 'model-sharing' and 'ensuring recruitment possibilities'. The long answer is the same, but it goes about explaining it in more (quite redundant for answering your question) detail.

And to really make sure this gets you thinking:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tarkus

Nighthawk: Just to make sure...are you activating the EB script each time you play?

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Either you didn't, because of the fixed date by which the reforms trigger no matter what, or you mistyped and meant 240 BC. ~;) In the latter case you will either have to look up the requirements for Polybian reforms in the FAQ and play accordingly to speed things up - or just be patient for another 28 years or so, because IIRC the fixed date is 212 BC.

Listen carefully , I shall say this only once .

To answer your slinger question , they only like Punic travelling salesmen and the Portugese . It's a union thing .

Don't sweat it too much , the Celtic slingers are actually better in many ways {25 meters more range 50% more ammo and armour piercing shortswords} and they're right trollops who work for anyone and cheap {257 Mnai too boo-coo , 193 all my mother lets me spend} .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Frost

Listen carefully , I shall say this only once.

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:candle: RENE! What are you doing with that girl!!? :laugh4:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Frost

To answer your slinger question , they only like Punic travelling salesmen and the Portugese . It's a union thing .

Don't sweat it too much , the Celtic slingers are actually better in many ways {25 meters more range 50% more ammo and armour piercing shortswords} and they're right trollops who work for anyone and cheap {257 Mnai too boo-coo , 193 all my mother lets me spend} .

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:surrender2: Dang.... Sooo, if I am following you, if I want $um, I have to lay out mega-minai to hire $ome "on the field" as merc$. Otherwise, does that mean I WILL get to recruit some vice having to "hire" some, once the Marian reforms finally kick in, but not until then?

As to the Marian, and Polybian, Reforms. Thanks all who pointed out the "script" thingy. I had no clue you had to do that every-dang-time! I thought once you did it the FIRST time it would stay "on" every time you reloaded the game?? I will be more careful from now on.

And yes i really did MEAN 140 BC -- that was not a mistype. Curiously, as soon as I did the script thingy, it shot me back to 200 BC the next time I hit the hour-glass button to end the turn -- kind'a like in football, getting 70 years added back onto the clock!!! I can now BUILD the Polybian reform by buying the next upgrade to the beer hall (errr, troop training hall), but it did not make it retroactive for me.

One more question? What happens now to all my hard-fought and veteran CAMILLAN troops?

1) Do they just automatically "upgrade?"

2) Or, do they upgrade the next time I can get them back to Italy to "retrain?"

3) Or are they "shot;" Camillans forever??? I.e., I might just as well disband them and replace them with new-formed green Polybian units back in Italy?

Thanks guys. And to the Mod-developers. I am enjoying the heck out of this game. I hated the war dogs and incendiary pigs!! :thumbsdown: IYGMD? ~;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Come in Nighthawk

:candle: RENE! What are you doing with that girl!!? :laugh4:

:surrender2: Dang.... Sooo, if I am following you, if I want $um, I have to lay out mega-minai to hire $ome "on the field" as merc$. Otherwise, does that mean I WILL get to recruit some vice having to "hire" some, once the Marian reforms finally kick in, but not until then?

As to the Marian, and Polybian, Reforms. Thanks all who pointed out the "script" thingy. I had no clue you had to do that every-dang-time! I thought once you did it the FIRST time it would stay "on" every time you reloaded the game?? I will be more careful from now on.

And yes i really did MEAN 140 BC -- that was not a mistype. Curiously, as soon as I did the script thingy, it shot me back to 200 BC the next time I hit the hour-glass button to end the turn -- kind'a like in football, getting 70 years added back onto the clock!!! I can now BUILD the Polybian reform by buying the next upgrade to the beer hall (errr, troop training hall), but it did not make it retroactive for me.

One more question? What happens now to all my hard-fought and veteran CAMILLAN troops?

1) Do they just automatically "upgrade?"

2) Or, do they upgrade the next time I can get them back to Italy to "retrain?"

3) Or are they "shot;" Camillans forever??? I.e., I might just as well disband them and replace them with new-formed green Polybian units back in Italy?

Thanks guys. And to the Mod-developers. I am enjoying the heck out of this game. I hated the war dogs and incendiary pigs!! :thumbsdown: IYGMD? ~;)

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1- No
2- I don't think so, never tried retraining them after the reforms.
3- A better idea would be to use 'em up. Keep 3 or 4 units with each of your new armies, give them the "first contact with the enemy jobs", use 'em to pin enemy phalanx (this is probably what you'll be fighting a lot of at this point in the game-esp. if you are expanding somewhat historically), use the new Polybian units to flank-this will get the noob troops some experience 'cause they will be getting a lot of the 'kills'. They will eventually die off due to attrition, but using them to pin at least gets your Polybian noobs trained up near the exp. levels the old Camillan troops were at.

I think you can still build/retrain Camillan units in cities if you do not upgrade the mic buildings, so you can field and maintain both sets of troops.

I just combine the old camillian units until there all gone and replace them with polybian.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MerlinusCDXX

1- No

2- I don't think so, never tried retraining them after the reforms.

3- A better idea would be to use 'em up. Keep 3 or 4 units with each of your new armies, give them the "first contact with the enemy jobs", use 'em to pin enemy phalanx (this is probably what you'll be fighting a lot of at this point in the game-esp. if you are expanding somewhat historically), use the new Polybian units to flank-this will get the noob troops some experience 'cause they will be getting a lot of the 'kills'. They will eventually die off due to attrition, but using them to pin at least gets your Polybian noobs trained up near the exp. levels the old Camillan troops were at.

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1) So it now seems.

2) I had a few spare minutes to run another round of turns. I have gotten to the Poly' Reforms (PR) now in Aretium (IIRC) and Roma. I had sent a detachment of "old sweats" back from Illyria to "retrain." They got to Aretium at the same turn as the Reform occurred. The Accensi could still be retrained, as they carry over into the PR, but the other "old guys" did not appear when i hit the retrain button -- only the Accensi. So, i elected to disband the one unit that was down about 30 men in strength, retrained the Accensi, and have begun to recruit new units. IIRC i had a CR Triari and one or two Hastati that were around 70 men each and something like experience level "3."

3) I've decided to do exactly as suggested by several of you; keep them, and go ahead and "use 'em up."

BTW, I'm curious --- along the lines of the Balearic slingers and no-unit-in-Sardinia-you-damn-Roman! :laugh4: How is it I can not recruit any native cavalry in Iberia?? I just recently got the right buildings and enough "citizens" in towns to recruit Numidian light horse, so i am puzzled i can't recruit any "Spanish" cavalry... Am i "too early?" IIRC Gaivs Ivlivs Caesar had some in Gaul, but that is still "years" away... Is that the problem?? :juggle2:

Thanks guys!!

You should be able to recruit some Cantabrian light cavalry in Cantabria (duh), but only if you set up a level 3 government there.

I suggest you download and install the EB recruitment viewer, it'll answer all your recruitment-related questions:

https://www.europabarbarorum.com/downloads_misc.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visitor13

You should be able to recruit some Cantabrian light cavalry in Cantabria (duh), but only if you set up a level 3 government there.

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Ahh, well, I am fighting a war on about four fronts right now. 1) the hated "Carthos," 2) the KH, who as I have noted else-when don't know when to give up and sign a truce, 3) the Lusos, and 4) the persnikity "Rebels" on the Gallic front. Then there's the occasional, umm, "misunderstanding" BY the Ptolomaies! to make it five! Their last one cost them the sack of Alexandria for their pains!!! They signed a truce immediately after in return for the charred remains being handed back to them. So, I have only had time to just overrun Vellikie, & now I will have to see about the level 3 govt. and what I can do there. Thanks for the tip. :idea2: Appreciate it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Visitor13

I suggest you download and install the EB recruitment viewer, it'll answer all your recruitment-related questions...

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Oh! :oops: I've only been playing about a week now --- since downloading the game. I'll see about that. Still "finding my way." Thanks! :beam:

1) AI Truce, War with Carthage - I believe there is a script that triggers a drastic change in relations and eventually war if you cross the border in Sicily. Yes, that means even those rebel-controlled settlements. I think I was able to overcome this by sending a diplomat over to bribe one of the settlements after it was weakened almost taken over by Carthage.

2) Balearic slingers and other types of troops - Yes, you cannot train all types of military units. These units are not native to the Romans. You can, however, hire them as mercenaries.

3) Truces - Yes. Sometimes.

4) "Freed slaves" - They are released when a city rebels to a faction's favour. Disband them as soon as you have enough troops to maintain order.

5) Reforms - As stated above, make sure you activate the script. Also, pay attention to warnings and messages. The warning about crossing into Sicily should have come up if you activated the script.
(Crossing into Sicily was a treaty violation which would provoke Carthage. Historically, the Roman occupation of Messana was a breach of the treaty in force between Carthage and Rome which stated that Rome should not interefere in Sicily and Carthage should not interfere in mainland Italy. Polybius justified Rome's actions by attacking and discrediting the treaty as well as the Greek historian Philinus.)

P.S.
I am also relatively new to EB but I am a veteran of RTW and several mods. I would suggest using a higher difficulty setting - Medium or Hard as this makes the mod more enjoyable overall and definitely affects the AI and behavior of the other nations. I also initially found it difficult at those settings so I "sent" myself aid by adding gold in the initial turns.

I am also not much of a blitzer. The only territory I "blitzed" was Rome proper. I usually hold out on expansion and focus on development after Rome and the northern borders are secure.

Glad to see the main EB script activation has helped you out, Nighthawk...it may be a pain to get used to but you're basically playing vanilla RTW without it.

And in regards to Camillan troops post-Polybian reforms: Lots of thoughts on this, as is seen from the responses here. I try to be as "historical" as I can be and, assuming this was actually done at the time, I slowly disband Camillan units as new Polybian units are moved into my armies. It just doesn't *feel* right to keep them around too long after the new Polybian counterparts are on the scene. But I may just be talking out my arse, as well...

Have fun getting sucked in to the EB vortex...I too feel your pain as my Roman generals are also battling a remnant Carthaginian empire, a back-stabbing Lusitannan hoard, an angry Hellenic mob in the Peloponnese and a seemingly endless wave of Ptolemaic sarissas...but that's what makes this game great!

Also do not forget to upgrade your mics. The reformed units are only available after you did that.