Rebels/Enemy Factions - What side are they on, again?

Last night was a very long and very interesting battle. Obviously I have a huge and very intesting history to where I got to this point, but, basically, it's simple. High period. Sicilians. I forget the year, but pretty well into the game. I have a great economy going and two decent Army stacks. The rest are mercenaries and bribed armies holding garrison.

Assassinated italian leader. Took over rebel lands early on. Now hold Sicily, Malta, Naples, Venice, Milan, Genoa, Corsica, Sardinia, Greece, Constantinople, Crete (or whatever island the italians had), Serbia, Prussia, Livonia, Wales, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Denmark, Sweden, Norway & Chernogov.

French sent Crusade through Genoa. Needed to protect armies and garrison due to high zeal. Said no way, go around. Wound up in a fight. My prince Alex pushed Crusade through Tuscany to Rome. The Crusade has been bouncing back and forth in the Papacy and is pretty much surrounded.

Knocked out French Navy (luck) and sent Prince Alex to the Mid east further stomp on the French provinces (Anitioch, Tripoli, Palestine) until they were pretty much worn down to nothing. Never held siege and just went up and down the cost and did some stomping with some great battles. So, enough was enough and the Jihads started from the Egyptians. So I got them out and sent them home.

Here is where the battle started. Italians came back in Tuscany along with Rebel force. Huge armies. More than I had in numbers that could commit to keeping Tuscany.

I had some bribed artillary, a prince with huge valor (6), a bunch of sticks, axes and cavalry. I figured I could hold defence as long as my sticks could hold.

I set up three artillary peices on top of small hill (very small). Surrounded by Archers, Sticks in line encircling about 70% of the hill. Reinforcement stick just outside of this hole. The hole was filled with the sergents and cavs on the outside.

Waited for first units to appear. Rebels. Target artillary on general. General dead. Waited for attack. Archers had a fight. Faked a stick move, cav ran off and sent my cav to take out archers.

Once cav were engaged, italians appeard from the 3 o clock. Massive never ending waves. My fake move forced the rebel cav around to the 3 oclock of my line and basically couldnt' do anything because of sticks. Rebels waves would wind up in this small valley (village) between italians and the line. Italians and Rebels went at it. All I could do was watch.

My line wasn't touched for most of the battle, frequent bumps with the sticks happened, but they would wind up back in the field fighting and my guys went back in line. Royal knights took off in frequent impetous adventures so I let them go so at least someone could get some more valor on this one. Every now and then, a rebel or italian unit would break free from their battles, flank my units to the open rear, only to be met by the cav or sergent units.

Once the italian general was in view, Targeted him with artillary. Within minutes, he was gone too.

fight kept going, and going, and going with my guys holding position and the rebels and italians duking it out. As a unit won, I'd send in my cavs from the side or back and surprise, they're all running. then, get my unit back in formation and hang out.

Longest fight so far, yet no where near as exciting as others. Too bad I didn't save, save the battle or even some screenshots of all of the ground beef.

This goes in line with what I've always thought about rebels. They're completely on their own.

In this case, they were simply trying to beat both you and the Italians in that battle...no matter how improbable that was.

They're just the drooling mob so to speak- No loyalties and only in it for themselves.

I had a weird one a few nights ago in my Danish/Early/Hard campaign. I had invaded Scotland, and pushed the English off the British Isles (left with only Normandy, IIRC). I had not yet taken Wessex, they had rebelled when I killed the English King in Wales the turn before. So Wessex had 2 units of Royal Knights, just ripe for the slaughter, and I moved in with my 6* general with some Vikings/Clansmen/Feudal Sergeants, maybe 4-500 troops total.

Of course, the French decided to join the party from Flanders. We weren't at war (no alliance though), so I wasn't really sure what was going to happen. They also outnumbered me, and I didn't really want them to get the province that way. I got a bridge map, with the French on my side and to the left, and the rebels on the other side of the bridge. I set most of my troops facing the French, with a Viking and FS unit facing the bridge in case the rebels got frisky. The rebels stayed where they were, and the French moved forward, sort of angling towards the bridge. But then they tooted their horns and charged in. They had a few units of hobilars, some militia and spears, and two RKs. After some fighting and dying, they started to rout. The best part was that they routed across the bridge, right into the rebels on the other side, who proceeded to slaughter them to a man. This also drew the rebels across the bridge to my side, where I was able to crush them more efficiently. :viking: Couldn't have asked for a better result. Not only did I take Wessex, but the French wasted a stack and took the blame for starting the war that I wanted anyway. They didn't even get the chance to attack my ships that turn, and I was able to prepare for it on the next. ~D

lol...

The French got owned...

One the occasions in which I find myself in a 3-way battle including rebels, they seem to end up helping me more often than not. Not always, of course; they have wrecked my plans from time to time. On the whole, however, I find rebels to be unlikely allies in my quest for domination. :yes:



By the way: I wish you a belated welcome to the Org, stxman! Good to see you here. ~:cheers:

Yeah, rebels can be pretty mercurial.

However, you can't really Ally with them ,as they're supposed to be sites for expansion.

Thats lucky for you. When a 3 way battle involving rebels, and a other faction happens, both sides always seem to gang up on me. :(

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Originally Posted by Kenshin the vega bound

Thats lucky for you. When a 3 way battle involving rebels, and a other faction happens, both sides always seem to gang up on me. :(

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I try to move away from the other two armies and let them slug it out. Sometimes it works and I can manoeuvre my forces with aplomb to strike at the winning side in their moment of triumph :2thumbsup:

flanking an entire army that is fatigued from a triumphant battle and striking them when theyre morale is worst is a great way of maximising kills and captures while minimising your own casualties :)

well yeah, that's a good strat. let the two other combatants duke it out and strike at the winner.

When I try hiding in the corner, both army's go after me. :furious3:

This always seem to happen. Its a good thing that most of the time I am able to deal with both army's.

as is often the solution to many battlefield problems: Ranged attack combined with a pikeman/spearman defensive set.

Discourage both enemies from attacking head on as much as possible, and further "encourage" them to attack eachother by providing artillery/missile fire from the rear of the same defensive position.

Eventually, they'll get the point that they simply have to fight eachother first. Hopefully :yes:

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Originally Posted by Ravencroft

well yeah, that's a good strat. let the two other combatants duke it out and strike at the winner.

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That, however, doesn't always work out. I've noticed on more than one occasion that the AI armies are just as reluctant to engage in battle as I am. If I'm allied with them, they wait very long to press forward and most of the time they keep a big reserve. When I'm facing multiple armies, it doesn't mean that they will duke it out amongst themselves first unless unallied and starting very close to eachother.

I've just had a rebel army and a french army on a bridge battle; it was interesting...
I had to split my defences over the two bridges. I held the frech bridge using halberdiers, but only had spearmen to defend the other. The rebels broke through and charged into the rear of my army on the french bridge.
My vanguard and rearguard crumbled. The rebels then set about the french as my army routed, thankfully I held some mounted crossbowmen back and as neither gained the upper hand within the time limit, my mounted troops watched on serenely from the hill. The numbers of dead were huge on all three sides, but I held the territory! - Lucky, but we all need a bit of that!

Sounds like an epic battle there IronSword. I love Bridge battles mself.