How to break enemy alliances

This is a followup to a previous topic i made called "how to break up enemy alliances". The problem i was having was that AS and ptolemy were allied nonstop against my pontos - the computer has a tendency of forcing alliances between all your territorial neighbors, and the alliance will always be against you! I was tired of dealing with the AS AND the damn egyptians who just seemed so cozy towards each other but kept throwing stack after stack after me.

But i found a solution to my problem by accident: eventually, one of your neighbors who is part of the alliance against you will ask you to become protectorate. ACCEPT this, there is no downside (that i can tell so far), this will FORCE you to have trade rights and alliance with one of the enemies in the alliance against you.

Then, since the the computer will never break protectorate (as far as i can tell), you attack your OTHER enemies in the same alliance against you, and due to the diplomacy system, it will cause the alliances between your "protector nation" and every other nation in that alliance to BREAK.

Since the computer has no choice but to continue the protectorate status, and therefore cannot re-ally with the other nations in the evil alliance (so long as you maintain hostile relations with those other nations), the computer is forced to fight itself.

Example from where I am right now - Ptolemies and AS were allied against me (as usual) while i was still struggling for control of asia minor. Ptolemies foolishly asked me to become their protectorate and I immediately accepted, since the computer does not renege on protectorate deals, and that mean the Ptolemies were gone as a threat until i felt like dealing with them. Withe protectorate, I gained trade rights, access rights, and an alliance with ptolemies. Then, I ATTACKED the AS town of Sardis, causing all of the ptolemies alliances' to break except for me and a couple of far away nations. Now the AS and Ptolemies are enemies (since it is impossible for the computer to make them friends again, they always fight), and I am free to ravage the AS while the Ptolemies do nothing.

If you become a protectoree, all of your money at the end of the turn goes to the protectorate holder.

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Originally Posted by Gaivs

If you become a protectoree, all of your money at the end of the turn goes to the protectorate holder.

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I havent observed this, I get 5000+ mnai per turn (which I added up and makes balance)

I noticed in a campaign where I have a protectorate of my own, they sometimes give me tribute, and sometimes don't. Does anybody know what exactly happens ? I suspected maybe a tribute once a year (so every four turns) but it didnt seem to follow this pattern. But then, that could be because the protectorate was bankrupt.

EDIT: On topic, I find a good way to break an enemy alliance is to take a core territory from one enemy, and present it as a gift to the other. War usually ensues.

Its whatever money is left after expenditures. So if you spend all your money any turn, it really doesn't hurt you. At the very least if you get a Protectorate you can tell how busy it is by the relative size of the tribute you get from them every turn. As for breaking enemy alliances generally you need to be allied to one and attack the other. Though the territory idea sounds good. Usually its not an issue for me.

Download the force diplomacy mini mod. As long as you dont go silly with it and demand tribute from every faction etc stuff like that, its usefull to curb the stupid AI. In your case, that alliance is retarded, so you use force diplomacy and make either faction attack the other, and force them to ceasefire with you.

Forced Diplomacy will solve your problems. But without it, the "important territory idea" sounds good. Another possible way I used sometimes is to send spys in a territory occupied by one of your enemies which will most likely rebell to the allied faction (for example, Galatia from Seleukids to Arverni or Aedui, Helvetis from Sweboz to one of the gauls, iudaia from seleukids to ptolies etc.). This will also cause a war.

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Originally Posted by gurakshun

(...) Then, since the the computer will never break protectorate...

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My experience show that the AI in fact does attack its own protectorates sometimes. :wall:
In my current campaign (as Pahlavans) Epeiros tried to delay its inevitable doom by offering themselves as Roman protectorate. The Senate always accepted but attacked next turn. This cycle repeated for several turns, until the powermongering Romans swallowed them completely.
Also in my first campaign (0.81) I tried to become a Seleucid protectorate to see what it does - only to be attacked by them anyway...:no:

The best way to break an enemy alliance is with spies. In my current campaign as Pahlava( luck to you, Marvin), I have caused war between Arche Seleukia and Hayasdan, by causing a town of Hai ethnicity to rebel against the AS.
I've also caused war between the AS and the Ptolemaoi, Pontus and the KH, and fomented countless other troubles. My two cents! :idea2:

Speaking of alliance breaking, how do you make another state a protectorate?
I'm trying to force some enemies of mine to submit, but I can't find it