Acropolis Now

To 25 leading economists - "will the Euro survive until the end of the next parliament?"

The results - No = 12, Yes = 8, Don't know = 5

And even some of the "Yes" votes clarify that they don't believe it will be the same Euro that currently exists, as members will have exited and dafaulted.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...ive-years.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Germany & France on the verge of open conflict over Euro's future:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7144778.ece

Time to withdraw U.S. forces and watch those two go at it again. Just like old times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vladimir

Time to withdraw U.S. forces and watch those two go at it again. Just like old times.

---

Lies and deception, if our two leader want to go to war it will be a cage match or a mudfight or something like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

Lies and deception, if our two leader want to go to war it will be a cage match or a mudfight or something like that.

---

what is lies and deception?

---------------------------------------------------------------

good article on how Soros drove Britain out of the ERM:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...jugular/57696/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Furunculus

what is lies and deception?

---

The part where he insinuates France and Germany are almost at war again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

The part where he insinuates France and Germany are almost at war again.

---

he didn't, he said that political convergence necessary to keep france and germany as the engine of european federalism is in danger of stalling as a result of different policy objectives over the euro crisis.

germany is being pragmatic and restricting economic governance to the Eurozone, thereby damaging the political ideal that everyone goes down the ever-deeper-union path together.

france is being idealogical and attempting to rope the whole EU into economic governance because they are afraid that an a-la-carte EU will destroy momentum for a federal union.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Furunculus

he didn't, he said that political convergence necessary to keep france and germany as the engine of european federalism is in danger of stalling as a result of different policy objectives over the euro crisis.

---

Oh yes, he did, he was obviously looking forward to us "going at it again" like we did in WW1, WW2 and the Franco-Prussian war etc. What you describe is the link he posted and used to build his guerretic-voyeurist propaganda on top of it. ~;p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

Oh yes, he did, he was obviously looking forward to us "going at it again" like we did in WW1, WW2 and the Franco-Prussian war etc. What you describe is the link he posted and used to build his guerretic-voyeurist propaganda on top of it. ~;p

---

sorry, i thought you were responding to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

The part where he insinuates France and Germany are almost at war again.

---

I would totally repatriate to get in on some of that action. Invading France is practically a family tradition. :laugh4:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

I would totally repatriate to get in on some of that action. Invading France is practically a family tradition. :laugh4:

---

Too late for that! The Nazis, who brought such dishonour and shame to the German army, and unspeakable misery to their first victim, Germany, are no longer.

If you desire, however, to march into France in a German military uniform, then our good friends, modern democratic Germans, have held military parades on the Champs-Élysées since 1994, to the respect and friendship of the audience.

:germany: :love: :france:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://img692.imageshack.us/img692/...allemande1.jpg

~~o~~o~~<<oOo>>~~o~~o~~

The symbolism of the Franco-German axis served a historical purpose. It is getting a bit old, a bit empty though. Also, although WWII is always close to the surface on the internet, in real life nobody is interested in that ancient history.

Quite apart from any symbolism, and independent of the personal chemistry of leaders, France and Germany must closely co-operate out of necessity. With Spain and Italy in trouble, and the UK not part of the Euro, it is clear that France and Germany have a preponderous weight in the Euro rescue operation.

Me, I think the Euro needs closer political and economical co-operation succeed in the long term - Sarkozy's position. However, in the short term, focus needs to be on discipline, an independent ECB, etc - Merkel's position.
I hope the AD/HD midget will be firmly wrestled to the ground by the bulky Wagnerian Valkyrie.

bloody tinternet posted on wrong thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Me, I think the Euro needs closer political and economical co-operation succeed in the long term - Sarkozy's position. However, in the short term, focus needs to be on discipline, an independent ECB, etc - Merkel's position.
I hope the AD/HD midget will be firmly wrestled to the ground by the bulky Wagnerian Valkyrie.

---

I agree with you, but unlike you I don't want the Euro to succeed in the long term; I think the project is doomed through it#s corrupt inception.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Me, I think the Euro needs closer political and economical co-operation succeed in the long term - Sarkozy's position. However, in the short term, focus needs to be on discipline, an independent ECB, etc - Merkel's position.
I hope the AD/HD midget will be firmly wrestled to the ground by the bulky Wagnerian Valkyrie.

---

reading Der Spiegel it seemed fairly clearly that Sarkozy was argueing for EU economic governance whereas Merkel was argueing for Eurozone economic convergence..........?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

I agree with you, but unlike you I don't want the Euro to succeed in the long term; I think the project is doomed through it#s corrupt inception.

---

i am quite happy for the Euro to succeed, as long as its participants are both willing and able.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Too late for that! The Nazis, who brought such dishonour and shame to the German army, and unspeakable misery to their first victim, Germany, are no longer.

If you desire, however, to march into France in a German military uniform, then our good friends, modern democratic Germans, have held military parades on the Champs-Élysées since 1994, to the respect and friendship of the audience.

---

It was, of course, only a joking reference to the fact that three successive generations of my family participated in three successive invasions of France with varying degrees of success. I currently hold no claims on French territory... :grin:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Me, I think the Euro needs closer political and economical co-operation succeed in the long term - Sarkozy's position. However, in the short term, focus needs to be on discipline, an independent ECB, etc - Merkel's position.
I hope the AD/HD midget will be firmly wrestled to the ground by the bulky Wagnerian Valkyrie.

---

Der Speigel has changed its tune:

they now say that Sarkozy wants Eurozone governance whereas Merkel wants to widen it to the EU27.

odd............

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...699672,00.html

..........................................................................................

lol:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...eign-debt.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Furunculus

lol:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...eign-debt.html

---

I never thought banking news could be so funny.

Spain pushes for the public result of Eurozone banking stress testing in an effort to unfreeze lending:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...sts-surge.html

this should have been done long ago, British banks were put through this back in 2009, the result of which is that interbank lending in the UK is seen as a much less risky proposition.

Just some article's for the interested on Irish involvement in UK.

AIB have to raise some extra capital to satisfy the new banking regulator a man by the name of Matthew Elderfield as a result they are having to sell prized assets across Europe. This man has really kicked butt here and long may it continue :thumbsup:


AIB faces tough sale on UK assets




Irish debt nightmare for UK banks

ugly for britain, but only if ireland goes down the tubes which is highly unlikely as long as the Euro doesn't.

Maybe the Merkel-Sarkozy rift wasn't as wide as some people thought:

Quote:

---

One area where they reached easy agreement was the performance of the German national team which beat Australia 4-0 in the World Cup on Sunday. "My first words will be to congratulate our German friends on a remarkable start for the German football team in the World Cup. We are delighted for you. It was even pretty spectacular," said Sarkozy.

---

Even though there may be some differences, we solve them with words here in Europe. ~:cheers:

I'm not sure about this whole financial government thing and taxing this and prohibiting that and what it's supposed to achieve. Will they finally be able to throw someone out of the eurozone or is it just a lot of talk about establishing more talk and trying to seem concerned? :sweatdrop:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

I'm not sure about this whole financial government thing and taxing this and prohibiting that and what it's supposed to achieve. Will they finally be able to throw someone out of the eurozone or is it just a lot of talk about establishing more talk and trying to seem concerned? :sweatdrop:

---

Pretty much watch as we see more reports from the "Markets Raising Concerns" bah

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

Maybe the Merkel-Sarkozy rift wasn't as wide as some people thought:



Even though there may be some differences, we solve them with words here in Europe. ~:cheers:

I'm not sure about this whole financial government thing and taxing this and prohibiting that and what it's supposed to achieve. Will they finally be able to throw someone out of the eurozone or is it just a lot of talk about establishing more talk and trying to seem concerned? :sweatdrop:

---

No, you solve them with 50,000 U.S. troops stationed in Germany.

Did Austria even show up?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Furunculus

he didn't, he said that political convergence necessary to keep france and germany as the engine of european federalism is in danger of stalling as a result of different policy objectives over the euro crisis.

germany is being pragmatic and restricting economic governance to the Eurozone, thereby damaging the political ideal that everyone goes down the ever-deeper-union path together.

france is being idealogical and attempting to rope the whole EU into economic governance because they are afraid that an a-la-carte EU will destroy momentum for a federal union.

---

France is not being idealistic as desperate to keep hold of German subsidies. If Germany stopped believing - and therowing money liberally to almost everyone else then France would have to sort out itself. France has been reliant on foreign support from at least 1939, and arguably since 1914.

~:smoking:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

France is not being idealistic as desperate to keep hold of German subsidies. If Germany stopped believing - and therowing money liberally to almost everyone else then France would have to sort out itself. France has been reliant on foreign support from at least 1939, and arguably since 1914.

~:smoking:

---

Aren't we all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

France is not being idealistic as desperate to keep hold of German subsidies. If Germany stopped believing - and therowing money liberally to almost everyone else then France would have to sort out itself. France has been reliant on foreign support from at least 1939, and arguably since 1914.

~:smoking:

---

What kind of tabloids do you read? :huh:


If you mean strategically - all countries except a hegemon rely on a balance of power and on alliances. Only during Louis XIV and the Revolutionary era did France not need alliances.

The kiddie version of history in the UK is that the silly continentals can't help misbehaving themselves, repeatedly start petty wars, which are then sorted out by Britain, which a most ungrateful continent is never thankful for. Reality is that Britain and its enormously overstretched empire, fully part of Europe, relied on a balance of power, the aggressive maintenace of which has always been Britain's policy.
For example, the UK did not fight in Flanders because the English like the French so much better than they like Germans. The British allied with France to stop Germany, the largest power of Europe, from its threat to topple Britain, in particular its fleet building policy. Britain did not save France, Britain saved its Empire, with Belgium coming in as a handy battlefield. In 1914, the Empire was defended to the last Frenchman, in 1940, it was defended to the last Russian. Both World Wars also showed Britain was not at all capable of defending its Empire on its own.

If you mean economically dependent - massive French financial, political and intellectual expenditure has been quite instrumental in maintaining and spreading democracy and stability in Europe, including the British Isles. As has been German desire to create a peaceful Europe, and a European Germany.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Both World Wars also showed Britain was not at all capable of defending its Empire on its own.

---

I would agree with this entirely, after all every Totalwar game that has a British Isles in it the English are usually weaker and poorer than Europe. Safe behind a channel without fear of attack it can involve itself in wars on the mainland to disrupt any one nation dominating Europe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

I would agree with this entirely, after all every Totalwar game that has a British Isles in it the English are usually weaker and poorer than Europe. Safe behind a channel without fear of attack it can involve itself in wars on the mainland to disrupt any one nation dominating Europe

---

And in every Total War game the British Isles are the perfect place to forge an unbeatable empire. Not a good comparison.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

I would agree with this entirely, after all every Totalwar game that has a British Isles in it the English are usually weaker and poorer than Europe. Safe behind a channel without fear of attack it can involve itself in wars on the mainland to disrupt any one nation dominating Europe

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vladimir

And in every Total War game the British Isles are the perfect place to forge an unbeatable empire. Not a good comparison.

---

The two don't exclude the other. On the contrary...:beam:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vladimir

And in every Total War game the British Isles are the perfect place to forge an unbeatable empire. Not a good comparison.

---

Wrong it's because it is disadvantaged that Britain is so strong, it 's a geopolitical reality that Britain must always prevent a single nation dominating Europe.

Once Europe is divided Britain can rest easy in the knowledge her empire will not be troubled.


This is real reason Britain is in the EU to my mind, Britain ensure's it does not get overly powerful and overshadow it. They can never hope to dominate it themselves but they must ensure that Germany and France also do not

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Wrong it's because it is disadvantaged that Britain is so strong, it 's a geopolitical reality that Britain must always prevent a single nation dominating Europe.

Once Europe is divided Britain can rest easy in the knowledge her empire will not be troubled.


This is real reason Britain is in the EU to my mind, Britain ensure's it does not get overly powerful and overshadow it. They can never hope to dominate it themselves but they must ensure that Germany and France also do not

---

Wrong (let's just keep saying it back and forth)

But seriously, that's silly. You're saying they're strong because they're weak. What you mean to say is that Britain is easily defensible once it has naval superiority. Internal lines of communication give it the ability to respond quickly to invasion and the channel presents a logistical challenge to any would-be invader.