It's not anti-climactic if your avatar's name is Publius Laevinus!
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It's not anti-climactic if your avatar's name is Publius Laevinus!
LOL @ TC.
Sure.
Any chance of an update to the library? (My character's bio doesn't have my name on it, and the family tree is a bit outdated)
Just a question to all.
Does the game have an inbuilt Frame Rate counter?
No, you'd need something along the lines of FRAPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
Free, easy to use and it counts frame rates. Plus, it's handy for screenies as well.
:balloon2:
Only 2, and I've lost both of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
There seems to be a hiatus while we wait for Warluster to load his save. Any chance of using the time to write a Chancellor's report, Ignoramus? I've just had a look a the latest save and it is a very tense situation, with lots of battles looming with Venice, rebels, Milan and the Poles. We don't need anything fancy, just a context for what is likely to be a spate of battles etc.
Econ,Im bit confused,but has Warluster fought a battle after this savegame?
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1136.zip
I don't know, but I assume so. Ignoramus said Warluster had not uploaded his save. From this thread it looks like Warluster fought a battle between 6-8am this morning, but the savegame was posted 6-8 hours earlier. Ignoramus should be able to clarify this.
Ok.Thanks for the info.:bow: It seems there are quit a few battles coming on our way soon.Lets hope we are not beaten back into Germany on all fronts:sweatdrop: .
If I could switch gears for a second, I'd like to address family tree issues and avatar placement again. I know dry subject but I brought a visual aid:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
As you can see most adoptions have happened, I think due to game mechanics, in the Swabian and Franconian houses. That's great, the more avatars in play the better. However, as you can see Austria is getting the short end of the stick, and Bavaria, on the family tree at least, doesn't exist yet.
I think it is time to even things out a bit by not using the family tree as a strict guide to the houses. I think many of us agree that AussieGiant deserves an avatar, but if we followed the family tree, when would he get one?
Also project this tree forward a generation or two, even if Bavaria and Austria do start getting avatars the tree will still be lopsided, with a majority of family members in Swabia and Franconia.
I know we want to sync the Family Tree to the Duchies so it's pretty and makes sense, but at some point, and I think we're reaching it, this will have a detrimental effect on the PBM.
Thoughts?
Edit: If it's any help, I'd volunteer to be Imperial Genealogist to keep track of who's in what house.
Tricky one, yeah. Tbh, not sure how it should be handled. Might be worth keeping in mind that the Bavarian chick will come of age in only a couple of turns though, and since they usually get a marriage offer almost immediately, that would give us at least one bavarian avatar.
But after that? Hard to say. It is possible that things will even out (because the Swabia and Franconia are pretty much full, it looks like Austria will be next in line for adoptions, and then probably Bavaria. I don't know exactly how it's assigned, but it looks like it just works its way down the family tree breadth-first, "filling up" one generation at a time, and for each generation just going left -> right until all members of that generation are "full". Which means it will be ages before Swabia and Franconia get new adoptions.
So I suggest we wait a bit to see if it shows signs of evening out.
Also it should be possible to get some of the Franconian and Swabian women to marry into the two other houses when they come of age. Either that, or they could travel the world a bit before marrying, to limit the growth a bit.
Only princesses, daughters of the current ruler, get a represenative on the game map, unlike other daughters of marriageable age. The only princess we're due at the moment is Elsebeth, Heinrich's youngest daughter.
Adoptions tend to occur starting with the eldest son, Henry the heir, and then move to the second son, Dietrich. If it stayed that way, Leopold would be up next, but it seems that Sigismund, as Henry's eldest (adopted) son, is now getting adoptees. If it continues to follow this pattern I doubt Austria or Bavaria will get many adoptees at all.
There is much sense in what Overknight is saying,but i would first wait until Von Mandorf have married and also to see where the next adoptions will go. Also its a clear possibility that we could have dead avatars soon. So the situation between houses could chance completely.
Mandorf, being a general, won't marry unless it's into the Imperial Family, and I'm not going to send the current princess to him when she comes of age. Most likely I'm going to marry her off to Otto, who should see some adoptions because he (IIRC) is older than Sigismund.
If we still don't get anything from that I suggest that some of the newer Swabian and Franconian generals "defect" to one of the other two houses in order to keep the balance going.
For comparison, here's the family tree towards the end of the Will of the Senate PBM:
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b...y_tree_255.jpg
I'm assuming M2TW follows similar conventions as RTW, but am open to correction on that.
From Wots, you can see that eventually all four lines get avatars although the fourth - Titus Vatinius? - is distinctly short-changed. However, the third, the Aemili, was arguably the dominant family in the game.
I do want to keep the tie between Houses and branches of the family tree, as it is so neat. But I am aware of the potential problems over unequal assigment of avatars. I don't think it is a big problem at the moment - AussieGiant was mentioned, but IIRC he only got a computer that could play M2TW a week or so ago, so it is not like he has been sidelined for a long time. All the players without avatars are generally fairly new entrants to the PBM, having voted in only one or two of the four Diet votes so far. I will start to really worry when some folk still don't have avatars and we have avatars spawning in Houses with no avatarless players waiting.
At the moment, Franconia has no waiting players so Ignoramus has been instructed not to accept any more adoptions into that House. Swabia is likely to get the next adoptee and as xdeathfire is still without an avatar, I am not inclined to instruct Ignoramus to turn another Swabian down. However, beyond that point, we should not accept any more Swabian adoptions.
I don't know if turning down Franconian and Swabian adoptees will give a chance for the other Houses to adopt. I am working on that assumption, but it is hard to test. In a run through a moment ago, I turned down a Swabian (the one destined for xdeathfire) and got no new adoptees in the 5 or so turns I played on. I think we may have reached the steady state ratio of avatars to settlements, so unless we conquer more settlements, we may not see many more avatars in a hurry.
On the issue of Elsebeth, she is 14 now and will come of age in 1144 - about 5 turns from now. That will put the Bavarian House on the map, so to speak. I don't know what is better - refuse any offers of marriage, so that Mandorf or Otto can marry her and become Duke; or accept an offer so that a new avatar is spawned for lilirishman1986 or nazgul3. From the principle of putting more bums on seats, I am inclined to the latter path although I guess we should leave that decision to her father, Generalhankerchief.
Bottomline: I recognise that this issue is extremely important, but I think we should hold off radical steps until we get to the situation where no avatarless player can be assigned a new general because they are all in the wrong House.
EDIT: The final point to note from wots is that sooner or later, the number of avatars is likely to far outnumber the number of active players, so this should be mainly a transitional problem.
IIRC, there was some discussion earlier about having Elsebeth just marrying whatever person comes along and having them join Bavaria to eventually become Duke. I could perhaps do that and it would make sure that players got avatars quicker, but as far as role-playing goes I would like to see the von Kassel family expand (although that worked so well with Dietrich :wall: ).
Thanks for the answers everyone. I realize this isn't a crisis yet, but it's something we should keep an eye on.
I know AussieGiant hasn't been avatarless all that long, but considering his time with the game and his contributions I think he merits the next avatar. This meshes nicely with the fact that Austria has only one avatar at the moment, Leopold is a Duke without an entourage :laugh4: .
In hindsight, one of the solutions we should have considered would have been to give Bavaria to Sigismund when he spawned. He'd still have his own distinct portion of the family tree to keep track of. A little late now perhaps.
Edit: I don't think Otto would denounce Heinrich in the Diet, he's not fond of building watchtowers. I think the worst he's done has been to call the plans for invading Rome hubris. Not exactly endearing, but not treasonous.
Regarding Elsebeth - why don't we role play it? But marriage requires consent on both sides. Otto could decline Elsebeth's hand if Overknight wants a third Bavarian player to have an avatar quickly. I guess that's an OOC factor - in character, he may feel he's not worthy or just not stand the woman.
BTW: perhaps Otto should also instruct Ignoramus not to accept any marriage proposals before Elsebeth? I am not sure if non-royal generals do get marriage proposals, but they may.
I don't think they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
Recall the generals you were able to recruit in BI - these "starter generals" such as Dietrich von Saxony, Maximillian Mandorf, and Otto von Kassel are akin to those.
That puts me, as a player, in an awkward position. OOC: I would like another Bavarian avatar, but I would also like to see an established and experienced player as Duke. I've had a lot of fun plotting with TinCow. He'd be my first choice for Duke. I certainly would enjoy being Duke, but I'm uncomfortable promoting myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
IC: Otto is ambitious, but not as ambitious as Dietrich. He wants fame and glory, Bavarian jackboots treading on the enemies of the Reich, but he hasn't set his eyes on a royal marriage like Dietrich's first incarnation. He's not going to advocate for it, but he wouldn't refuse.
I hate to be wishy-washy both IC and OOC, but I hope you realize my dilemma.
Of course I might just be over-thinking this. :juggle2:
Please marry Elsebeth to Otto. Max will be a bit of a geezer by the time she comes around and I think it will just work better for RP to have Otto become the leader. It will also be interesting because Max will end up getting demoted from Steward to Count, since he can't be a Steward when there's an active Duke around. Plus, if Max isn't in the family tree, he'll never get married. All of that will go well with my RP plans for him, so let's just commit Elsebeth to Otto. GH can come up with whatever RP reason he wants for that marriage.
Overknight: yes, it was awkward for you to be put in that position but I think the outcome of both your and GH's in character deliberations is the plausible one.
Congratulations, you are now engaged!
:smitten: :kiss2: :flowers: :deal2: :shakehands: :dancing: ~:cheers:
Now, start writing a romance story. :whip:
:wink:
econ21, I'm not sure about the UK, but if I posted a story about the romance between a 14 year old princess and a 37 year old soldier on the net, the FBI would be breaking down my door the next day.:sweatdrop:
However, kidding aside, I think it would make for an interesting coop story or at least good RP fodder. Personally, I'm thinking this would be one of those awkward and cold political marriages, particularly considering the age difference.
If it helps the storyline, Max can take a formal vow of celbacy and commit himself to never marry. That would pretty much force Heinrich to find someone else for her.
What happens if one of our existing generals marry Elsebeth? Does it depend on the general's background (ie. royal descendants move Elsebeth over to their branch of the family, others are moved up to her branch?)
I never really experiemented with this, but would be good to know. If so, perhaps it would make most sense for one of us adoptees in the two "crowded" houses married her, simply to limit the growth of Franconia/Swabia.
edit: Eek, there were a lot fewer posts when I started writing this... :p
Jalf - that's an interesting question, I don't know. But out of character, I think Overknight is right - it's best if an established player heads the House of Bavaria at least initially. He's too modest to say it, but he fits the bill well.
TinCow - you mean Manfred is not already celibate? He certainly sounds on the road to it. But I would not worry about us needing this device as an in-game rationale for Elsebeth marrying Otto. GH seems to have his own long standnig in character reasons for preferring Otto for this match.
Jalf, it's complicated.
The game began in 1080, with four family members, Kaiser Heinrich, Prinz Henry (Duke of Swabia), Leopold (Duke of Austria) and Agnes (a Princess).
Also there were three generals (Avatars but not in the family tree, basically placeholders until the family tree grows), Dietrich von Saxony (Steward of Franconia), Maximillian Mandorf (Steward of Bavaria), and Otto von Kassel (2nd Elector of Bavaria).
A few years into the game Dietrich married Agnes so he became part of the family tree and became Duke of Franconia. His subsequent run in with the Kaiser (entertaining reading if you want to go back in the Diet) makes family reunions at the royal palace very awkward.
Bavaria is the only House left still run by a Steward. Whoever marries Elsebeth, who was born in 1082 I think, when she comes of age will be Duke of Bavaria and brought into the family tree if not there already (i.e. the title becomes hereditary instead of appointed). Most importantly Bavaria will be on the map as econ said. We can start producing kids and adoptees for Bavarian electors to play.
If Elsebeth marries someone already in the family tree, like an adoptee such as Jobst, her icon on the tree, I think, will move down to the adoptee's position. Either the adoptee or a non-family general will get a boost in loyalty from marrying into the family.
None of the houses are "too crowded" at the moment, my concern was that Austria and Bavaria would not have enough representation on the family tree in the future.
I hope that fleshes it out for you.
Hi all,
I fought the battle ages ago (1 day ago) and tried to upload, and i thought I did, but obviously didn't, I will try and upload it now, sorry for tyhe wait, I was at work!
If you need any help let me know, I've done it a couple of times.