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Not necessarily. I respect that you payed good money for the game but that does not automatically mean I am going to install something I might never be able to remove.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
Econ and/or this community will have to make a choice. When it makes its choice, I will make mine depending on what that choice is. It would suck if it came to that but I blame CA for using such bull!@#$ heavy-handed tactics.
Oh and we have this:
First of all it says that only the Bioshock version does this (and this version is the "worst"), and that it cannot EASILY be deleted, which makes me think that it CAN be deleted, ofcourse I will not go and try to delete it, as I might @$#%! up my computer doing that (it might seem I know much, in reality I know very little), but I find it strange that you cannot simple delete a file from your PC.Quote:
Bioshock/SecuROM also accesses the internet and attempts to bypass firewall permissions at some point during its installation, and installs files in a hidden directory that cannot easily be deleted.
Well, everything I have read so far says its hard/impossible to delete. If I could delete it, it would go a long way towards making me feel better about it.
I would still have concerns but that is the big one for me.
Well, sooner or later some genius hacker team will find a way to take away the securom, I almost garuntee you someone will accomplish this sooner or later. So I'll get kingdoms at a later date when they find a way. :beam:
RK:
What sucks is, I want Kingdoms. I really do. But, if this security-thingy is as bad as I hear it is, I don't want it that badly. Its sad that things in the industry are going this direction.
My sentiments match PK's on this exactly.
If I remember correctly, the bigger problem with SecuRom is that to delete it, it must be deleted from your registry meaning that its not something you can just carelessly mess with yourself unless you want to accidentally do something and mess up your computer
Stig, you have an opinion on the secuROM matter, but it doesn't reduce or invalidate others OPINION on the topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
Here are some "experts" talking about the Bioshock Securom version, which I know is not the CA version. I've still got no idea if the hardware changing issue and/or the registry entry are reversable in the CA version. AND That is what has me worried.
If you install patch 1.3 you will remove the current security in MTWII and replace it with secuROM, and there IS NO game play changes to the main game.
That's a fairly poor reason to patch that into your machine if you have reservations.
If you can't see that Stig then we have a problem.
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Have a read gentlemen.
This is the Bioshock write up on the SecuROM which can be applied to varying degrees to Kingdoms.
It's a good read.
The most important aspect I can see are the very unimpressive disclosure that something is being put on your machine permanently and that fact that only a few hardware changes can cause the problems documented here.
http://www.twitchguru.com/2007/08/27/bioshock_drm/
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Ok, after thinking about this, I made a decision. I am simply not putting SecuROM on my computer. This is not negotiable. If the community and/or econ insist on patching to 1.3, then I will simply ask for one of two things. I would either a.) want to work out something where I can proxy my battles. If this is not acceptable then I would ask to b.) be put on reserve duty.
This way, I get to play with you guys, you guys get to have 1.3 if you want, and I don't have to load that piece of !@#$ software on my computer. This is my stance until I see something that puts my fears at ease regarding SecuROM.
:yes:
the whole tripping after one mobo or HDD change makes me want to return this POS right now, I'm glad I haven't installed Kingdoms yet. I last 6 months on a mobo tops, I was looking at the new X38 based ones the other day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuperman
Every six months...that's insane Stups. :yes:
Why?
Oh. . .btw, I'm taking Matthias in a slightly different direction. I'm thinking using it as a lead in to a story.
I wouldn't want things to get to "boring". :laugh4:
Let me just clarify. After running ProtectionID on the m2tw exe file, it found that it is still SafeDisc 4.6 and not SecuROM. So it shouldn't be a problem to update next diet.
Kingdoms.exe has SecuROM however, from numerous reports.
that might be a slight exaggeration, but I am on my third on 18 months. I've switched AGP for PCIE and changed form AMD to Intel, each required a mobo change.Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
Yeah that would explain it then Stupes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuperman
Why all the hardware changes and why so drastic.
PCIE / Intel / Nvidia is the best combo now, and it doesn't look like changing soon.
meh, I wentQuote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
4600+/X800
4600+/7800gt
E4300(@2.9hgz)/X1900XTX
I'm somewhat of an 'enthusiast' (nerd), :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Dude, we all play a game where we pretend we're medieval German knights and then we move a representation of ourselves on a map that is on the computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuperman
We are all nerds... :yes:
Speak for yourself PK :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
I'm an international man of mystery and business. I regularly hang out with James Bond, The Saint and other such men of intrigue and standing.
And....I'm full of bull@#$^ too!! :beam:
Thank goodness for that. :thumbsup: Not that I am worried about SecuROM - I've had it on my machine for a year or so - but because this discussion was turning into a Mexican standoff. Unless anyone finds that the patch does install SecuROM, I suggest we close the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
I respect people's differing opinions on patching, but whichever way we go it is going to inconvenience some people. Either people without Kingdoms will have to patch their game for little benefit other than to keep in the PBM. Or people with Kingdoms will have to uninstall their new game. The latter is not a major problem for a short period, like the next 5 turns, but becomes a big hassle for the a long period, say if this game lasts until Christmas. On balance, I think patching the PBM at the next Diet is the best course of action.
Last word on it:
Aussie, Kingdoms does NOT (read: N.O.T.) have the same secuROM as Bioshock, end of story.
Sides as I said, I never found that SecuRom was even getting installed, and I never heard anyone from CA saying something about it (and I do talk to them from time to time). As I said, that thread was mostlikely made by a frustrated hacker, and FH just said that we can "safely" patch.
Actually, that doesn't matter. As I've said about 2000 times, the patch does not change anything.Quote:
On balance, I think patching the PBM at the next Diet is the best course of action.
Actually Bioshock and Kingdoms do both have SecuROM 7 versions. The only difference is that Bioshock also has limited activations.
Can't tell you the exact version number without the exe though.
This discussion really should be in the Citadel though and not here. As econ suggested, unless there is any more valid reason cropping up, we patch up to 1.3 at the next diet and there shouldn't be discussion over kingdoms vs bioshock here really.
Not really true, as I said I never found anything related to SecuROM, so for Kingdoms it does not put anything on your PC. And as you said the protection is still SafeDiscQuote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
Anyway on safedisc:
It does the same as SecuRom really. Just not a registrykey but a file. It's as harmfull as the other. Only difference is that it gets deleted during uninstall (or atleast we take it that happens)Quote:
SafeDisc installs its own Windows device driver to the user's computer, named secdrv.sys. In addition to enabling the copy protection, it grants ring 0 access to the running application. This is a potential security risk, since trojans and other malware could use the driver to obtain administrator access to the machine, even if the programs are running under a limited account.[citation needed]
Even worse is that (beside the default configuration on Windows XP), most installers don't set the security configuration appropriately, allowing every user to let the driver configuration point at an arbitrarily chosen executable which (at the next reboot) is started with administrator privileges.
But as you said, end of story.
I HEAR you Stig and that's not my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
I understand the version of secuROM is not the same, or at least does not have the same characteristics as the Bioshock version.
Can you ASK your CA friends to confirm there are no undeletable files and any and all hardware changes WON'T cause any problems?
I won't be buying Kingdoms as I don't have time to play these expansions anymore...BUT I will have to install the 1.3 patch so we can all continuing playing together.
As we both know, given the patch does ZERO to the game itself, I'm trying to determine if there are any HIDDEN problems at this time.
And before sprouting off some crap about that no one has said anything to date...therefore we are "All Good", then how about a comment in black and white stating that from CA.
Half the problem with the Bioshock debacle was that NO ONE said anything until problems were encountered by the customer. That type of behaviour leaves a lot to be desired.
Not surprisingly CA have said nothing to date on the matter.
if someone has a problem with me discussing the game OOC in this thread then go ahead and move it.
Edit:
So does it or doesn't it install SecuROM?? We can't even agree on that.
Just for clarification: Patch 1.3 for M2TW (vanilla) is SafeDisc.
Kingdoms 1.3 (the exe file) is SecuROM 7.
If that really is the case FH then we are good to go!!Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
And on SecuROM, for those who might be thinking about being Kingdoms:
As long as you have adminright for your PC it does not install anything.
I need a drink nurse!! :nurse:
While FH's statements make me feel a little better, I am going to hold off on patch 1.3 until I see how this all shakes out. I'll just go with my proxy/reserve option once this PBM patches. I am not convinced the patch is harmless and it is not going on my computer until I am satisfied. This whole securom debacle has spooked me big time.
This way, I get to be lord-god-emperor of my computer and you guys get to patch. :yes:
Belated battle report up:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=144
If there is no action taken on the battle queue by 0200 GMT (2200 Eastern Daylight) I will take back the save.
I am a bit alarmed at the number of battles being skipped lately. If you can't fight, update the active duty list.