Printable View
http://img139.exs.cx/img139/2059/earlylegion4pk.jpg
Early legion , some small touch up made....
http://img139.exs.cx/img139/5280/samnite2wv.jpg
Samnite Gladiator final version
http://img139.exs.cx/img139/1218/centurionearly3kv.jpg
Centurion early
http://img139.exs.cx/img139/6687/centurionlate9cx.jpg
Centurion late....
Looks lush Prometheus :)
The red trim on the Late Centurion scale maybe could use some shading to make it stand out against the red tunic. I don't know if you want to give the Centurions their rods of office?
Btw, what are fonts?
...Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
Unfortunatelly, the colour of the Liby-Phoenician Infantry's tunic is wrong. And the shield should not have the Greek pattern.
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/6709/a7ix.jpg
Having linen or leather shoulder pads on a metal cuirass is like having cycle tires on a M1 Abrahams. And the Roman helm should have a different angle for the neck guard.
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/341/b1fq.jpg
On the back of cuirass near the neck, between the shoulder pads it is dark. Why?
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/7541/c1cv.jpg
Hastati do not have shield patterns?
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/310/d6ip.jpg
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/7612/e0vs.jpg
Unfortunatelly, the shield of the Celtiberian is wrong. They didn't use this shield. It was one of Celtic design, quite a lot more oval and straight.
http://img66.exs.cx/img66/1217/f5jc.jpg
What's with all the Roman units? I mean I know some people might think that they're important, but their the most historically correct faction in the game to begin with! Can't we focus on fixing the mockeries before tweaking the boring Romans? Their has been no work done on the Parthians or Scythians, so why are people making changes to the Romans?
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I just don't get it. Their are far more pressing and interesting units to be fixed than the Romans.
True, but in the end they'll all get done ~:)
The Romans may be the most accurate, but still need corrections, and the corrections should be relatively quick and easy to do. And some one needs to do them eventually anyway, and if that's what Prom feels like doing, then all the better, gets them out of the way, and then we can focus on the other factions.
Because PROMETHEUS is Roman...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
Guys dont be so harsh critisize Prometheus. You have correct opinions on screens. Works are really good and very close to osprey prints as a reference.
Aymar can you be a roman centurion reincarnate ~:)
Alriteee....
The early centurion should have mail shoulder guards.
Also, don't centurions have the scabbards on the left?
But when Osprey prints conflict with Historical excerpts, they are wrong. Some of the Osprey plates have a bit of artistic licence. That is so in this case and according to what I mentioned in the pictures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Legioner
I wasn't being sarcastic. PROMETHEUS IS form the city of ROME.Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Legioner
I understand where Steps coming from but having played with Proms Roman units, they really are a great addition. They look more accurate and are much much better than the originals. Stunning stuff
Prom pretty much finished them so there's not much of a problem imho.
The only minor things that concern me are:
1) The silver bits all over the late centurions lower tunic. What are these?
2) The mask for the standard bearer. IMO, there should be three skins for the Roman standard bearer. Republican, Early Legionary and Imperial / Late Legionary. This can be done without using additional unit spots right? Also, the mask, if used should only be for the Imperial (and the eyes need to be closer set..seems distorted).
my2bob
No, I believe this is correctQuote:
Originally Posted by DemonArchangel
Keep this in mind if you seem concerned at how screenshots are being replied to:
First, many of our skinners are posting their alpha/beta shots here in this forum, both to get the type of criticism that is being supplied and to tease people with the sort of units we are working on. Constructive criticism is a necessary part of the process of building an EB unit, so that everyone has a chance to comment on what should be changed and, especially, -why-. It is ok to state that a unit is not depicted correctly, though where disputes arise quoting sources is necessary.
Second, we have a lot of people from a lot of different cultures here. North Americans expect someone to give constructive criticism in this sort of manner: "Well, the unit looks great! I would just suggest one or two things..." However, I have seen one of our members from Russia both give responses and expect them this way: "The unit is completely wrong, it needs to be this way!" I assume from our interaction that evaluation of other people's work is handled -very- differently in Russia - what we in America would consider brutally honest without an American sense of courtesy. (I hope you don't mind me using you as an example, DM!)
So just keep these in mind when reading or writing responses. We have people from all over the world, just give each other the benefit of the doubt and assume everyone is trying to help each other before assuming anything else.
Cheers!
First , I posted some action pics just for fun not to show them to be criticized since most of them are already aknowledge by Urnamma and me so We know what is to change and what is not .....this was just a show.... when i post instead here pics is for new units that I completed and so those should be criticized
but since some critics comed anyway i will answer here....
Accordinf to Urnamma discussions the color is fine , the pattern is wrong ...Quote:
Unfortunatelly, the colour of the Liby-Phoenician Infantry's tunic is wrong. And the shield should not have the Greek pattern.
that is still your personal opinion on wich Urnamma doesn't agree , I personally know that shoulder pads were used and posted some pics too for thi but I will leave the decision to Urnamma here since is his unit...Quote:
Having linen or leather shoulder pads on a metal cuirass is like having cycle tires on a M1 Abrahams. And the Roman helm should have a different angle for the neck guard.
? What? Oh if u refer to the back of the Sacred Band phalanx is the hairs long and dark and linked by a little strap of leather but since the sun is on the otherside it looks darker....Quote:
On the back of cuirass near the neck, between the shoulder pads it is dark. Why?
that is an experiment , to make them look more close to original sculptures where no patterns are visible , I tought I could leave the patterns for the richer and more heavy dressed units....still to be decided tough...Quote:
Hastati do not have shield patterns?
I followed always the same pattern of Osprey , I haven't seen any other plate even from other sources than osprey were other shields are used by this particular unit and all the scutarii or heavy inf seemed to use this one ,I'll ask urnammba about it tough.... about the roundness I think u are right.... and also the used a javelin and not a spear no?Quote:
Unfortunatelly, the shield of the Celtiberian is wrong. They didn't use this shield. It was one of Celtic design, quite a lot more oval and straight.
__________________
I made like this since in some representations the triarii do have this pattern onthe mail shoulder so I assumed the centurion to distinguish himself could use it as well My idea could be that since little is known about early and later triarii we could give the later the shield pattern , the 3 feathers and the patternon shoulder , differently from the earlier ones or a compromise between them .... few would have changed instead for the others but the shield pattern may be .....Quote:
The early centurion should have mail shoulder guards.
Also, don't centurions have the scabbards on the left?
Also I think you are right about the centurions to keep their scabbard tothe left , but were the pugio then?
-------------------------
? I don't understand what u refer to , probably the scale mail?Quote:
1) The silver bits all over the late centurions lower tunic. What are these?
I think so but the early legionary and the republica would differ few and I already made ingame , just not depicted well by any pic....Quote:
2) The mask for the standard bearer. IMO, there should be three skins for the Roman standard bearer. Republican, Early Legionary and Imperial / Late Legionary. This can be done without using additional unit spots right?
early imperial time like the segmentata units and the scale suit centurions... will fix the eye thing....Quote:
Also, the mask, if used should only be for the Imperial (and the eyes need to be closer set..seems distorted).
Becouse I wanted to make a movie of the carthaginian battle of Cannae , so I needed romans too....Quote:
What's with all the Roman units? I mean I know some people might think that they're important, but their the most historically correct faction in the game to begin with! Can't we focus on fixing the mockeries before tweaking the boring Romans? Their has been no work done on the Parthians or Scythians, so why are people making changes to the Romans?
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I just don't get it. Their are far more pressing and interesting units to be fixed than the Romans.
U accusing me of Factionism...???Quote:
Because PROMETHEUS is Roman...
This has nothing to do from were I am from infact If you remember I made and completed the full Scythian faction befoure making the romans , but I discarded since was judged not appropiate to the mod and not too realistically close to originals.....
Often the Osprey writere are historical experts who have spent lot of time studiing thos things and so I thrust them in many ways , an example is ... the praetorian guards , there are descriptions of them sculpted in marble dressing metal cuirass like CA did , but the Osprey books describe them with segmentata or other armours couse of deeper historical sources , so is not a free artist license at all , it is a work made in conjunction between the writers historical and the artist.....Quote:
But when Osprey prints conflict with Historical excerpts, they are wrong. Some of the Osprey plates have a bit of artistic licence. That is so in this case and according to what I mentioned in the pictures.
I have seen this shield pattern in other books as well. I have a number of books by a writer called Tim Newark working for blandford publishing, a particular plate showing a iberian celts attacking a roman fort. A light infantry man was armed with a shield identical to this armed with javelins.Quote:
I followed always the same pattern of Osprey , I haven't seen any other plate even from other sources than osprey were other shields are used by this particular unit and all the scutarii or heavy inf seemed to use this one ,I'll ask urnammba about it tough.... about the roundness I think u are right.... and also the used a javelin and not a spear no?
This is the Unit Sceeenshots thread. Lets us not spread to thin...Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
That is not what he told me.Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
It is not my personal oppinion. I've shown you several depictions of Roman and Greek sources, and it was quite obvious that Metal Cuirasses hadn't Leather or Linen shoulder pads. They didn't had shoulder pads at all, or, at the most, they had Imitation shoulder pads made of METAL. I said a couple of times: "If you want to make shoulder guards to the cuirass, at least make them in METAL!!!"Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
OK. I couldn't distiguish the hair...Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
Ok. Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
It's not the pattern!!! It's the shape I'm talking about!!! The Celtiberian shields are not Roman shields!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
Here are some pics:
http://www.historialago.com/leg_iberos_i_osuna_01.jpg
http://www.historialago.com/leg_cart...adosesp_03.jpg
http://www.historialago.com/leg_iber...uerrero_01.jpg
http://www.historialago.com/leg_iber...erreros_01.jpg
http://www.historialago.com/leg_cart...adosesp_01.jpg
http://www.historialago.com/leg_iber...erreros_01.jpg
http://www.historialago.com/leg_iber...a_sitio_01.jpg
Are these enough for you???
Why do people think I'm accusing anyone of anything???!!!! I was stating that, since you're from Rome, you would prefer to do the Romans before the others. I'm doing the same!!! I'll do the Iberians first because I feel the need to make them before the other units that I will eventually work upon. It has nothing to do with Factionism, it has to do with personal taste.Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
Don't misinterpret what I say...
Yes. But you have Urnamma (who is an Academic Schoolar specialized in North African and Eastern Ancient History) to comment Osprey's Historical accuracy. It is good but it has flaws too. Urnamma (and a lot of others) have refered that: "If it conflicts with historical excerpts, then it's wrong. Period." And do you know what? They are right.Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
Are we all speaking English or not? Where did I say that the pattern was wrong? The shield's shape is wrong!!! Not the pattern!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Blind King of Bohemia
Read carefully before you post.
Alright geezer calm down, i know what you said, to be honest i just said i'd seen the pattern before, i didn't say anything about your post or say you were wrong in anyway so go easy mate, no need to blow your stack. Jesus
Sorry. I got irritated for no reason. I apologize. I'm a bit stressed... :embarassed:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Blind King of Bohemia
Yes and may be you need a couple of glasses tooo?Quote:
Are we all speaking English or not? Where did I say that the pattern was wrong? The shield's shape is wrong!!! Not the pattern!!!
Read carefully before you post.
look here is my previously quoted by u sentence....
can u read it now?Quote:
.... about the roundness I think u are right....
Here is instead the Belgae warband asked me by Psicho V , steel needing some work tough ...
http://img91.exs.cx/img91/311/a1xy.jpg
Ahh, I see things are back to normal. I am playing peacekeeper and Aymar is blowing his lid over nothing! ~D
Aymar, this is getting -far- too involved for the screenshot thread anyways, let's move this to the threads for the appropriate factions. Besides, that way you can let your temper loose on people who are used to it already, not the unsuspecting public! ~;)
You too, Prometheus. Let's try to keep this as uncluttered as possible so people don't have to wade through all sorts of discussion to get to the screenshots, which is what they're here for :)
(And yes, I am aware of why you're responding, I just ask the responses get moved to the appropriate faction threads)
The Belgae look good, but their shields are too rounded, they carried more angular shields, and one skin of them would have dark blue body paint (Briton Belgae, Gallic Belgae should lack the paint). Pyscho V posted a picture of a model of a Belgae warrior, the Briton should have similar paint designs.
I read it before pretty well. I was replying to Blind King of Bohemia, not to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
BTW, the Belgae looks good, but shouldn't the hair and moustache be a bit blonder?
Ok what about this?
http://img23.exs.cx/img23/8871/a5re.jpg
That fast? :stunned: Great work!!!
Good, but darken the paint more. The Belgae added a copper solution to their woad, which darkened it to a deep, dark blue, but the designs are very good. The only other request is a variation in tartan colors for the pants between the Gauls and Britons, but that can wait (I imagine it must take longer).
What you mean ? isn't the tartan good?Quote:
The only other request is a variation in tartan colors for the pants between the Gauls and Britons, but that can wait (I imagine it must take longer).
The tartan is great, but the Gallic Belgae and Briton Belgae would probably have a variation of colors. I'd suggest blue in place of the yellow, since the southern Britons and the associated Belgic tribes used more blue dyes. However, not the 'Briton' blue from vanilla, they would use a darker blue, almost purple color.
That and the Belgae are for both Gauls and Britons, and Belgic peoples in each one would look a bit different, due to the dyes available (and British Belgic tribes would paint themselves but Gallic Belgic tribes would not).
retattooes...
http://img27.exs.cx/img27/5555/a6lw.jpg
That's fantastic! Much better. However, they should probably be a bit more blonde (some were redder haired though, so that's not really incorrect either, they got the red hair from breeding with Germans). Also, the shields shouldn't be so rounded, they had more angular shapes, identical to the Naked Fanatic shields in vanilla
alrite, now just reverse the scabbards on the centurions.
the centurion wore his sword scabbard on the left, not the right.
Because the Gladius was such a short sword, the scabbard was used, by the legionaires, on the side of the hand that used the sword. PROMETHEUS image is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonArchangel
:guitarist: Prom!! Prom!! Prom!! Prom!! in other words, Fantastic!
Very early WIP for the Gallic Light cavalry. No need to comment on the texture, Psycho hasn't got it yet.
http://img86.exs.cx/img86/2594/lightcav4ep.jpg
Update:
http://img152.exs.cx/img152/8195/lightcav26sy.th.jpg
Hey, Vercingetorix!! Even without the final texture, that is billions of times better than vanilla RTW.
BTW, the cheeck guards seem a little loose. Shouldn't they be close to the face?
http://www.legionxxiv.org/centurionpage/
That one says that the centurions wore it on the left hip. I know about the bayonet grip draw Aymar.
http://www.westair-reproductions.com...s/minrfig1.htm
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1853...17#reader-link
Greece and Rome at war. I've read it before, and it seems reputable enough, considering the author used historical finds as basis for his drawings.
Yes the Centurion's sword is on the left.
You are right the Centurions had the gladius on their left while the legionaries on their right ....Quote:
That one says that the centurions wore it on the left hip
http://img135.exs.cx/img135/6529/a1bt.jpg
What about this variance for the Britons?
and a battle screen...
http://img160.exs.cx/img160/7858/a7yz.jpg
http://img135.exs.cx/img135/6104/a8ju.jpg
Top notch work, PROMETHEUS!!! :2thumbsup:
http://img134.exs.cx/img134/7829/a2sn.jpg
Final version , with new pattern for the Briton shield , and torcs added and all cas files made ....
I must say that those guys look fearsome ~:eek:
Yeah - awesome work Prom, them are some excellent Briton skins.
Those > Originals
Awesome looking Belgae, I like both variants.
The Belgae look excellent. The skins there, the Gallic skin will actually be the 'rebel' variant, the Gallic variant will lack body paint. Both look excellent though, I am very pleased to see them coming along so well.
And they should look fierce, the Belgae contained some of the most fierce tribes of Celtic warriors, like the Nervii.
http://img23.exs.cx/img23/1733/a1ow.jpg
HERE is a first work in progres on the Helveetii unit....
~:eek: ~D stop your making me cry !
Awesome cuirass and helm!!! :stunned: Awesome!!! It looks just like a pic I've seen!!! And this is just a prototype... :pleased:
http://img22.exs.cx/img22/7849/a5ey.jpg
Ok here is a first poreview in game please tell me what to change and what is ok....
http://img22.exs.cx/img22/3739/a1lz.jpg
The shield should be more rectangular, I apologize, I was tired and had somehow confused rectangular and square. They should be more rectangular shields, but otherwise it looks fine. Totally my mistake, should've correct you before you did that, sorry.
http://img71.exs.cx/img71/6291/a4dn.jpg
What about this? I will rotate the shield to make it possible to the lances to go past the shield without clippings.....
Man, i just want to say that your work gets better everytime i see it ~:cheers:
I just cant wait to get this mod :bow:
http://img89.exs.cx/img89/5273/a8br.jpg
Ok I have rotated of 90 degrees the shields at least they have less lances clipping , but the clipping still remains for some , I guess There isn't much else I can do about this , I have tried severall combinations but is always the same....
Brilliant work Prom !!
A few suggestions:
* Shield should be this shape
http://www.arms-armor.cz/catalog/fil...s/th_sh053.jpg
We're not actually too sure of the design they would have used, but anything from the Southern Halstatt B culture would be fine.
* Needs a torc
* Need thick wrist bands
* Belt needs to be thicker
* The Cheek guards shouldn't really be there. If your set on including them may I suggest smaller rounded triangular ones.
* The checkered pattern needs some work..and I'd reduce it in size a tad, esp around the sleeves.
* I'd give them a cloak in some other colour than the reddish
Lovin this...See History come to life on your screen !
my2bob
http://img135.exs.cx/img135/6044/b6jk.jpg
http://img135.exs.cx/img135/8832/a7oj.jpg
fixedQuote:
* Shield should be this shape
I used a pattern that Ranika suggested me from a Helvetii leader....Quote:
Were not actually too shure of the design they would have used, but anything from the Southern Halstatt B culture would be fine.
they already haveQuote:
* Needs a torc
addedQuote:
* Need thick wrist bands
?Quote:
* Belt needs to be thicker
removedQuote:
* The Cheek guards shouldn't really be there. If your set on including them may I suggest smaller rounded triangular ones.
fixedQuote:
* The checkered pattern needs some work..and I'd reduce it in size a tad, esp around the sleeves.
From discussions with ranika I think this is the better , tenue light reddish tartanlike colour and pattern....Quote:
* I'd give them a cloak in some other colour than the reddish
:jawdrop: Jawesome!!!! :guitarist:
Prom, You are truly impetuous. You are like a fighter that keeps on going and going and a fighter that won't stop! :thumbsup:
Fantastic work, PROMETHEUS!!! :thumbsup:
But there are two details that need fixing.
1.The lower part of the trousers need to be wider (near the shoe).
2.The crest. You can use a rectangular shape and use alpha oclusion in the texture map to draw the shape. You will spare polygons and time with this. Remember the procedure for feathers on helmets?
Agree on both accounts.. esp #2
fixedQuote:
1.The lower part of the trousers need to be wider (near the shoe).
I know but this don't work if the part in question is not in 2d but on 3d and so is there , anyway if this is still disturbing I could make it only a 2 d variant but then u won't be able to see the point from the frontal view.....Quote:
2.The crest. You can use a rectangular shape and use alpha oclusion in the texture map to draw the shape. You will spare polygons and time with this. Remember the procedure for feathers on helmets?
Thanks. ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
Ok, I understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS
But for that to happen, you must look straight at the face of the soldier, and all of the other soldiers within the unit will have the head slightly tilted. So, the problem will only affect one soldier at a time. Try it and see if it works. Working or not, both solution are fine by me.
He has unique strong passion on RTW. He is my hero :charge:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormy
I'd like to be able to see the crest from the front. If it cant be done without it, I'd rather keep what Prom's already done.
my2bob
Sigh, those are absolutely amazing. I'm starting to check this thread every other day to see if more unit pics have been put up. It's so sad. :embarassed: . Shouldn't the crest bee a bit higher and steeper though? I've seen those types of helmets before in person, and the ones that I have seen tend to be a bit higher. Not an expert, just mentioning it. Can't wait for more! :2thumbsup:
Why dont u make a fat celt for once im sure there must of been fat/large if i want to be politically correct , celts im sure they wid of been clet or british though i dont thin the germans wood
of.
The Celtic warrior would have been tall muscular individuals and one for one a celt would outmatch a legionary, even roman writers would admit to this. The statue of the celt put much fear into the much smaller roman but they used other techniques in order to solve this problem with better organisation and cohesive tactics to enable victory.
Legends that pass in the mouths of the ones who didn't were testimones in perosns , The celtys were higer yes nut the avarage legionary was a bit more than one meter and 70 cms , the 1.70 was the entry levelk to be in the legion , while the Celts reached even 1.80 but not much more , the germans instead reached higer ranges even 1.85 at the best ....
Err... no... 1 Roman foot is shorter than 1 modern foot.
The avg. legionary was apt to be something like 5'3 while your avg. celt was like 6 ft.
No you are wrong the Roman standards to accept people in the legion is that they had not to be shorter than 1.70 cms
anyway here is the Lybian spearmen need to know how it looks now...
:charge:
http://img133.exs.cx/img133/4117/a5ww.jpg
http://img133.exs.cx/img133/5711/a2fc.jpg
Palm of the right hand doesn't face outwards.
On normal people anyway.
It does in RTW. It's the CA bug, I think somebody here got the poor job of correcting it already :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonArchangel
Are you going to make new animations for the hoplite and phalanx units ?
Lovely model Prom !
Let's wait and see... :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Meneldil
Crests are not supposed to be worn by every single Spartan soldier. Only for officers of each pentekostye, and an transverse crest for the Polemarch..
Crests had the same function as the stars on officers' uniforms these days. As well as the function of quickly identifying friend from foe, similar to the IFF systems in modern fighterjets.
From this junior member...
I finally read through this thread (took several hours). There are some incredibly talented individuals working on this project...
My main reason for visiting the Org these days is to check on the progress of this Mod. In fact, Europa Barbarorum inspired me to join and begin posting!
Astonishing work folks, astonishing. I hope you all have resumes submitted to developers. It takes true individual dedication to effectively contribute to this massive and complex undertaking with no monetary compensation.
Europa Barbarorum is stirring up anticipation for higher standards in gaming production from this gamer. I hope CA is paying serious attention to the modding community and the potential modding has for their target markets.
Please continue with your impressive labors. I think I'll begin to look into modding myself (despite a 40+hr work week and full time university study).
Warmest regards,
Divinus Arma
Thank you indeed for your kind words. :bow:
I think I speak in name of the whole team when I say that, although this project has always been approached more as a way to make ourselves happy, when playing RTW, than for any recognition, we always apreciate when people demonstrate such interest for the MOD.
I hope we can make all people's expectations more than fulfilled... :bow:
Having read through this entire thread I must say I'm very impressed with the work you guys are doing. Very professional work indeed!
I really only have one thing to question and that is the physical fitness appearance of some of the units with bare chest...
Particularly the abs of some barbarian units look really really big.. Maybe tone the muscles down a bit so they don't all look like they're pumped up on steroids?
Maybe fatten some of those units up just a bit too? I mean, even for present day soldiers it's not very smart to get rid of all your body fat as that will make your body get cold very fast when you're in the field, so imagine how it must be for those Gauls in the winter... :p