Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Concluded]

Question for those more knowledgable about mechanics than I:
For the two turquoise saber attacker, is there anything in that write-up that shows the use of two active abilities? It looks to me like one active ability plus some passive and active defenses, but I'm not positive.

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Originally Posted by Nightbringer

I think it is pretty likely that turquoise double saber was diana abnoba, since that is the same as she was seen using when she died.

The other turquoise attacker seems to be the same one that targeted me last night. According to chaotix everyone was accounted for last night except seon, so for the time being that is where my vote shall rest.
vote:seon

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That theory would work great if I wasn't busy roleblocking Diana (although it said I failed).

In addition I was attacked by yet another man with a turq lightsaber. Yes. I was the one who was attacked by the other turquoise saber.

I think the Sith is the third or fifth assassin. Like I mentioned above, I don't see any indication of a second active ability in the two turquoise saber attack. That indicates only a single action being used, while that person clearly has two actions available to them because they are using double sabers. So, one other action was spent on something else. Under the circumstances, it seems very likely that other action was used to vig Diana to blend in with the rest of the crowd. Of the vigs, the first and second are using double-bladed sabers, which means they do not have the ability to attack two different people, so those people cannot be the two turquise saber attacker. That leaves vigs three, four, and five as potential Sith. However, vig four appears to be using both a saber attack and Force Wave, which means two different active abilities on the same target. So, vig four is not our Sith.

That leaves vigs three and five as our potential Sith. It would be good if we could know who these people are.

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Originally Posted by Double A

I think he's scum, but why would he give over his comrades?

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Haven't you figured it out yet? Would you like me to spell it out for you?

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I think the Sith is the third or fifth assassin. Like I mentioned above, I don't see any indication of a second active ability in the two turquoise saber attack. That indicates only a single action being used, while that person clearly has two actions available to them because they are using double sabers. So, one other action was spent on something else. Under the circumstances, it seems very likely that other action was used to vig Diana to blend in with the rest of the crowd. Of the vigs, the first and second are using double-bladed sabers, which means they do not have the ability to attack two different people, so those people cannot be the two turquise saber attacker. That leaves vigs three, four, and five as potential Sith. However, vig four appears to be using both a saber attack and Force Wave, which means two different active abilities on the same target. So, vig four is not our Sith.

That leaves vigs three and five as our potential Sith. It would be good if we could know who these people are.

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Force wave is, I think, an active DEFENSE. This does not clear attacker 4.

However, Attacker 3 is shown as using the same defense as the attacker who attacked me; ie: telekinetic lightsaber combat.

Attacker 3 is the culprit.

This last Sith, whoever it was, did not act outside of my orders last night. All of them can be accounted for in that write-up.

Diana Abnoba was both the first and second attacker.

I am at a loss for what to do now. I don't want to waste a lynch. I do have Investigation IV now, though, so I could start using that.

In order to get a fair ruling with that, I would need to know if anybody has become a Dark Jedi, however, as that will give me a similar result to a Sith. It is important that you do so. You all saw what happened to Diana; had I known she was a Dark Jedi, she might not have been killed.

I'll let you know now, I cannot be recruited because I have achieved Light Side Enlightenment. So... the recruited player is amongst you five.

EDIT: Somebody might not have been recruited at all and we are still dealing with the Apprentice alone. I will analyze write-ups and stuff to find the most likely candidate.

Attacker 3 was, I believe, Nightbringer?

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Originally Posted by Chaotix

Diana Abnoba was both the first and second attacker.

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I don't think this is correct. The first attacker had a double-sided lightsaber, which is what Diana had. The second attacker had two single lightsabers, which is a different ability.

[edit]Er, no... I'm wrong. The second attacker just uses a single lightsaber. I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

[edit2]Actually, I'm not sure the single saber changes anything. We still see Diana using a double saber, which she uses again when she dies. That clearly demonstrates that she has the double-sided saber ability, which only allows her to target one person, not two. So, even though the second attacker is using only a single saber instead of two sabers, that person still cannot be Diana and has to be our last Sith. So, the analysis remains valid. I agree that vig three looks like the best bet at this point.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I don't think this is correct. The first attacker had a double-sided lightsaber, which is what Diana had. The second attacker had two single lightsabers, which is a different ability.

[edit]Er, no... I'm wrong. The second attacker just uses a single lightsaber. I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

[edit2]Actually, I'm not sure the single saber changes anything. We still see Diana using a double saber, which she uses again when she dies. That clearly demonstrates that she has the double-sided saber ability, which only allows her to target one person, not two. So, even though the second attacker is using only a single saber instead of two sabers, that person still cannot be Diana and has to be our last Sith. So, the analysis remains valid. I agree that vig three looks like the best bet at this point.

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I found that this reasoning was false a while ago.

Juyo 2/Double-bladed Lightsaber is only a lightsaber form and works just like any other form, except it is Dark Side. The ability that allows one to perform two different actions at night is called "Twin Sabers", though that does NOT give you two lightsabers. Either Niman 2 or Ataru 2 is needed for 2-lightsaber combat. The first form Diana used was Juyo 2, as evident in her defense as well. The second form was Makashi, and she was fighting Seon, who is the only other player with a Turquoise lightsaber.

Diana performed both attacks.

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Originally Posted by Chaotix

Juyo 2/Double-bladed Lightsaber is only a lightsaber form and works just like any other form, except it is Dark Side.

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This is definitely wrong. Double-blade is an active ability, not a lightsaber form. It is the second tier of the basic lightsaber active ability; it gives a person a double-bladed lightsaber and allows them to perform up to two actions on a single target. Twin Sabers is the third tier of the same ability; it gives the ability to perform actions on two separate targets.

If you need proof, read the N12 attack on Kenth Cogma. The person who defended Kenth used a double-sided green lightsaber, but used Djem So as the lightsaber form, not Juyo.

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Originally Posted by Chaotix

I'll let you know now, I cannot be recruited because I have achieved Light Side Enlightenment. So... the recruited player is amongst you five.

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I find this to be incredibly unlikely. For you to have come instantly from basically sith levels of dark side, to the purity of light side...

You could be lieing and have achieved Dark Side Enlightenment. We can't know.

I'd tell you some stuff you need to hear, but I can't be bothered going back through chatlogs.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

This is definitely wrong. Double-blade is an active ability, not a lightsaber form. It is the second tier of the basic lightsaber active ability; it gives a person a double-bladed lightsaber and allows them to perform up to two actions on a single target. Twin Sabers is the third tier of the same ability; it gives the ability to perform actions on two separate targets.

If you need proof, read the N12 attack on Kenth Cogma. The person who defended Kenth used a double-sided green lightsaber, but used Djem So as the lightsaber form, not Juyo.

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This is both right and wrong. Double Blade gives the ability to attack twice on a single target, but not all attacks are necessarily with a double-sided saber. For example, the night before last I attacked Psychonaut with Juyo (was meant to be Juyo II, but anyway), and you can see me shown with a single blade. I've had the double-blade ability since forever. The two things are not connected.

I'm not sure how Ataru/Niman fit; I only got my first of those two-blade abilities last night.

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Originally Posted by Renata

This is both right and wrong. Double Blade gives the ability to attack twice on a single target, but not all attacks are necessarily with a double-sided saber. For example, the night before last I attacked Psychonaut with Juyo (was meant to be Juyo II, but anyway), and you can see me shown with a single blade. I've had the double-blade ability since forever. The two things are not connected.

I'm not sure how Ataru/Niman fit; I only got my first of those two-blade abilities last night.

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Ok, I can see how the lack of use of a double-blade doesn't mean a person doesn't have the double-blade ability. However, if you are actively using a double-blade in an attack, doesn't that mean you are also using the double blade active ability? Essentially, is it possible for someone to have the Twin Blade ability, but still use a double-sided lightsaber?

It was my understanding that moving from double-blade ability to twin blade ability removes your double blade saber and gives you two single blade sabers in their place.

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Originally Posted by Chaotix

I'll let you know now, I cannot be recruited because I have achieved Light Side Enlightenment. So... the recruited player is amongst you five.

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Rubbish. Why is he organising all this stuff? It's certainly not to help the Jedi. He's got his own individual victory conditions.

And I need to correct myself again. The second attack does indeed show two individual single lightsabers. The second is pulled out halfway through the battle. I don't think there's any way Diana could have done both of those attacks.

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Originally Posted by Seon

That theory would work great if I wasn't busy roleblocking Diana (although it said I failed).

In addition I was attacked by yet another man with a turq lightsaber. Yes. I was the one who was attacked by the other turquoise saber.

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I'm very suspicious of seon.

I think that Chaotix should not be lynched right now.
Why?
There are two possibilities:
a) he has been recruited last night. If so, he is now a Sith apprentice. A master should be killed first, so let Chaotix live for now. And try to lynch master - maybe it is Seon?
b) he has not been recruited (for example, because he has light side enlightement); then, there is no reason for lynching him

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Originally Posted by pevergreen

I find this to be incredibly unlikely. For you to have come instantly from basically sith levels of dark side, to the purity of light side...

You could be lieing and have achieved Dark Side Enlightenment. We can't know.

I'd tell you some stuff you need to hear, but I can't be bothered going back through chatlogs.

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I could be lying, except for the fact that the Holocrons I sent Cecil mention that I took Light Side Enlightenment and not Dark Side. I was offered the choice. If you think I forged ATPG's Sunrider-speech... well, there is nothing I can do for you.

I need to vote for someone. Vote: Seon for now.

I want to know what you drained from Diana Abnoba last night.

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Originally Posted by Seon

Attacker 3 was, I believe, Nightbringer?

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Nope, I'm attacker 4.
And yes, force wave is a defense. However, does anyone dispute that he was the one attacked by the turquoise saber, and does anyone claim to have done this? If no one else claims to have been attacked AND no one claims to have attacked him I think we can be pretty sure he was attacked by the sith, and therefore innocent.
for the time being, unvote

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Originally Posted by TinCow

If you need proof, read the N12 attack on Kenth Cogma. The person who defended Kenth used a double-sided green lightsaber, but used Djem So as the lightsaber form, not Juyo.

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This could be an error or inconsistency with the way I write this game. This game is.... beyond complex. Sometimes I don't remember my own guidelines for how I'm supposed to write it.

When using Juyo II, or for storyline purposes, a character will use a double-bladed saber. But, if someone who has a double-bladed saber uses a different form, it should now show up as a double-bladed saber, because the other end is not ignited.

If I have confused people because of inconsistency in the writeup, I apologize. Factual information is contained in write-ups, but it is also blended with storytelling which may not be useful.

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Originally Posted by Nightbringer

Nope, I'm attacker 4.
And yes, force wave is a defense. However, does anyone dispute that he was the one attacked by the turquoise saber, and does anyone claim to have done this? If no one else claims to have been attacked AND no one claims to have attacked him I think we can be pretty sure he was attacked by the sith, and therefore innocent.
for the time being, unvote

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The Sith did not attack Seon. Diana attacked Seon, as evident by the Turquoise lightsaber. She was Dark Jedi.

The Sith Apprentice, whoever it is, acted completely according to my instructions last night in order to blend in. He didn't need to attack, because he knew there would be at least one Jedi killed anyway. His best option for the rest of this game is to blend and hope I somehow miss him. However, my powers and process of elimination say I will kill him sooner or later.

Alright, ATPG's latest reply convinces me I'm barking up the wrong tree and that Chaotix is correct that Diana did both attacks. So, no one should be cleared as a result of last night's attacks.

Going back to the day phase when Psychonaut was lynched the first time, it was a close run vote between him and Diana. Given how close that vote was, I find it unlikely that the Sith Apprentice would have voted for his own master right there. Of the living, Chaotix made the case that got Psycho lynched, and Nightbringer's vote untied it and got Psycho lynched. So, I doubt either Chaotix or Nightbringer are the Apprentice.

Of the remaining four, Seon and WEW voted for Diana, and Renata and Csargo did not vote. Of those four, Seon's posts are the most scummy in hindsight. After Chaotix made his case on Psycho, Seon was the only person who expressed active disbelief at the vote on Psycho. In that post, Seon says he thinks Diana is 100% Sith, but then the next night he roleblocks Psycho instead? That's not consistent. Looks like an attempt to use the death of the Sith Master as a way to 'clear' the Sith Apprentice.

It's also a bit odd that Seon was able to successfully roleblock the very powerful Sith Master, but failed to roleblock a far less powerful Dark Jedi Master. Seon may not even have the ability to roleblock at all, Psycho could have just refrained from killing to set up Seon as innocent.

Lynch Seon.

After the lynch of Pyschonaut I thought for sure Diana was the last Sith, and I expected the game to be over by now. I don't really know who else to vote for, but Seon seems scummy. Vote: Seon.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Alright, ATPG's latest reply convinces me I'm barking up the wrong tree and that Chaotix is correct that Diana did both attacks. So, no one should be cleared as a result of last night's attacks.

Going back to the day phase when Psychonaut was lynched the first time, it was a close run vote between him and Diana. Given how close that vote was, I find it unlikely that the Sith Apprentice would have voted for his own master right there. Of the living, Chaotix made the case that got Psycho lynched, and Nightbringer's vote untied it and got Psycho lynched. So, I doubt either Chaotix or Nightbringer are the Apprentice.

Of the remaining four, Seon and WEW voted for Diana, and Renata and Csargo did not vote. Of those four, Seon's posts are the most scummy in hindsight. After Chaotix made his case on Psycho, Seon was the only person who expressed active disbelief at the vote on Psycho. In that post, Seon says he thinks Diana is 100% Sith, but then the next night he roleblocks Psycho instead? That's not consistent. Looks like an attempt to use the death of the Sith Master as a way to 'clear' the Sith Apprentice.

It's also a bit odd that Seon was able to successfully roleblock the very powerful Sith Master, but failed to roleblock a far less powerful Dark Jedi Master. Seon may not even have the ability to roleblock at all, Psycho could have just refrained from killing to set up Seon as innocent.

Lynch Seon.

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Given the evidence against the attacks clearing him, and this^
I'm going to reinstate my vote:seon

@TinCow: I heard that roleblock fails if the user is attacked by the victim. That explains why it was ineffective.

As for the reason why I blocked psychonaut instead of Diana Abnoba is because I flipped a coin. Yeah, I work like that.


It seems as if the Town has made its mind. Good game, everyone, but it's for the Sith, for I would be shown as a Jedi. We looked s if we had a real chance there, but I guess not. Or perhaps there still is a chance. Kill either Csargo or wideyedwander tonight.

You guys can't kill me anyways.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Alright, ATPG's latest reply convinces me I'm barking up the wrong tree and that Chaotix is correct that Diana did both attacks. So, no one should be cleared as a result of last night's attacks.

Going back to the day phase when Psychonaut was lynched the first time, it was a close run vote between him and Diana. Given how close that vote was, I find it unlikely that the Sith Apprentice would have voted for his own master right there. Of the living, Chaotix made the case that got Psycho lynched, and Nightbringer's vote untied it and got Psycho lynched. So, I doubt either Chaotix or Nightbringer are the Apprentice.

Of the remaining four, Seon and WEW voted for Diana, and Renata and Csargo did not vote. Of those four, Seon's posts are the most scummy in hindsight. After Chaotix made his case on Psycho, Seon was the only person who expressed active disbelief at the vote on Psycho. In that post, Seon says he thinks Diana is 100% Sith, but then the next night he roleblocks Psycho instead? That's not consistent. Looks like an attempt to use the death of the Sith Master as a way to 'clear' the Sith Apprentice.

It's also a bit odd that Seon was able to successfully roleblock the very powerful Sith Master, but failed to roleblock a far less powerful Dark Jedi Master. Seon may not even have the ability to roleblock at all, Psycho could have just refrained from killing to set up Seon as innocent.

Lynch Seon.

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Vote:Seon I don't really have anything to add to this, but it seems like the best option.

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Originally Posted by Seon

@TinCow: I heard that roleblock fails if the user is attacked by the victim. That explains why it was ineffective.

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This makes sense

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Originally Posted by Seon

As for the reason why I blocked psychonaut instead of Diana Abnoba is because I flipped a coin. Yeah, I work like that.


It seems as if the Town has made its mind. Good game, everyone, but it's for the Sith, for I would be shown as a Jedi. We looked s if we had a real chance there, but I guess not. Or perhaps there still is a chance. Kill either Csargo or wideyedwander tonight.

You guys can't kill me anyways.

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But this is incredibly scummy. vote: Seon.

Yeah. I know. But I also know that I can't convince the town to change its mind. So why not have some fun while I go?

Guess what, town. You can't kill me in a thousand years.

If you're just joking around, then you should stop, Seon.

I don't know what to believe, really, but there is the best case against you right now. If you can say anything to clear your name, I hope you do so.

Vote: Seon then.