EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

You are trying to argue with someone presenting arguments in bad faith. He's not interested in anything other than "showing it to the libtards". When you understand this, you can augment your approach appropriately.

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I know it very well. I've described the Anglo-American (location) far right (orientation) Bannonite (central figure of) politics, that takes the form of Brexit in the UK and Trump in the US. People who support Brexit in the UK will commonly support Trump in the US. And the methodology is the same. The red light should light up whenever someone argues for either of those, so that common debating tricks are recognised and given no quarter. Because, as you say, their arguments are given in bad faith. I've pleaded elsewhere for a reasonably common basis from which a political discussion can be had, independent of political orientation.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Social democratic Europe. You knew that, but you persist in asking anyway. I'll return the favour and ask you a question. What do you make of the complaints from MPs regarding death threats?

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Do you mean the ones that are colluding with foreign powers to stop Brexit?

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Do you mean the ones that are colluding with foreign powers to stop Brexit?

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Do you think it is justified then, to judge by your question?

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Do you mean the ones that are colluding with foreign powers to stop Brexit?

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It's hilarious, because the rest of Europe is actually pretty happy to get rid of you, and would more readily do so if not for Russian aggression. So yes, collusion. Somewhat in the same way one would be trying to lead a drunk friend home, but is strongly considering leaving him there for being a jerk most of the time.

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

It's hilarious, because the rest of Europe is actually pretty happy to get rid of you, and would more readily do so if not for Russian aggression. So yes, collusion. Somewhat in the same way one would be trying to lead a drunk friend home, but is strongly considering leaving him there for being a jerk most of the time.

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It's even more ridiculous than your sketch, farcical though it already is. IA is implying that said death threats are justified if they're aimed at traitors, defined as those who collaborate with foreign powers. Which then begs the question of who is collaborating with foreign powers. When you look into that, in whatever depth, IA's ire at those who collude with foreign powers gets ever more hilarious and hypocritical.

The whole #JoSwinsonIsATory just adds fuel to the fire to the dislike I have of Corbyn's Momentum sponsored cult of personality.

I mean...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i.imgur.com/aWpx2Sv.jpg

Could easily be flipped to:
"Stop No Deal Brexit", "Let No Deal Happen Because We Refuse to let anyone but Corbyn be Prime Minister"

They've been doing the same to john mcternan for years now.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

The whole #JoSwinsonIsATory just adds fuel to the fire to the dislike I have of Corbyn's Momentum sponsored cult of personality.

I mean...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i.imgur.com/aWpx2Sv.jpg

Could easily be flipped to:
"Stop No Deal Brexit", "Let No Deal Happen Because We Refuse to let anyone but Corbyn be Prime Minister"

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Originally Posted by Corbynite website

Swinson is STILL dragging her heels over ‘government of national unity’ – because she’s a Tory-supporting Brexiteer?

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Smearing Swinson with Tory support over the issue of Brexit. Except that Swinson never voted for the referendum (she was outside Parliament at the time), and Corbyn, not Swinson, voted for article 50 to be triggered. And of course Corbyn was the first person to call for article 50 to be invoked, beating Farage, Johnson and all the others to the mark.

I dislike Corbyn only marginally less than I dislike Brexit.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Do you mean the ones that are colluding with foreign powers to stop Brexit?

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I don't really think foreign powers are colluding to stop Brexit - on the contrary, most of the continent would like the UK gone and the whole leave/not leaving antics.

Theresa May's first year in power was marked by more or less hope this would be an orderly and elegant goodbye but it turned extremely sour and now it's turning into serious bickering even inside the EU.

The impression I get is that pretty much all of the member states are fed up with the process, which makes the EU itself's seemingly endless patience for the remainer's delaying tactics all the more baffling.

Not to mention the aggravating antics of a certain brexit coordinator.

The equation is simple - they're fed up and want the UK gone, but if possible to stop Brexit, they will.

Why? Because the economic impact will be immense for every single EU country and the political capital lost on this will be massive as well. Hence why EU is more than willing to hope till the end for no Brexit.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

The impression I get is that pretty much all of the member states are fed up with the process, which makes the EU itself's seemingly endless patience for the remainer's delaying tactics all the more baffling.

Not to mention the aggravating antics of a certain brexit coordinator.

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There are some sections of the EU, notably Germany, that are still Anglophilic, and recognise the existence of a significant proportion of people who want to remain in the EU. Just because you enjoy the idiocy of the Brexit leaders doesn't mean they represent all of us.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

The whole #JoSwinsonIsATory just adds fuel to the fire to the dislike I have of Corbyn's Momentum sponsored cult of personality.

I mean...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i.imgur.com/aWpx2Sv.jpg

Could easily be flipped to:
"Stop No Deal Brexit", "Let No Deal Happen Because We Refuse to let anyone but Corbyn be Prime Minister"

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I agree.

Which simultaneously pleases and horrifies me.

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Originally Posted by edyzmedieval

The equation is simple - they're fed up and want the UK gone, but if possible to stop Brexit, they will.

Why? Because the economic impact will be immense for every single EU country and the political capital lost on this will be massive as well. Hence why EU is more than willing to hope till the end for no Brexit.

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They could have hashed a deal, minimized the economic impact and gotten the british out of thier hair (as I understand it the ever-closer-union guys never liked our meddling) while retaining good relations a year ago. Hell they could have done it 3 years ago if they were so inclined, instead they've all but ensured that this will be a rocky exit.

And thanks to the open endorsement of the remainer side by fools like verhofstadt, I dare say they have earned the EU the emnity of over half our country, for playing enabler to our more bastard politicians as they enacted the most painful self destruction of a political paradigm we've seen in 150 years.

Its so damn pointless.

Edit: for the record "over half or country" is hyperbole, I dont need to be told that isnt going to be true.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

They could have hashed a deal, minimized the economic impact and gotten the british out of thier hair (as I understand it the ever-closer-union guys never liked our meddling) while retaining good relations a year ago. Hell they could have done it 3 years ago if they were so inclined, instead they've all but ensured that this will be a rocky exit.

And thanks to the open endorsement of the remainer side by fools like verhofstadt, I dare say they have earned the EU the emnity of over half our country, for playing enabler to our more bastard politicians as they enacted the most painful self destruction of a political paradigm we've seen in 150 years.

Its so damn pointless.

Edit: for the record "over half or country" is hyperbole, I dont need to be told that isnt going to be true.

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It's simple. All Leave needs to do to get the support even of Remainers like myself is to set out plans for keeping their promises. For instance, how do they propose to increase the NHS budget by 350 million per week. That particular promise doesn't need cooperation from outside parties like their other promises, like the easiest and bestest trade deals in the world with countries gagging to sign them.

BTW, one of the principle reasons for Brexit, free movement of labour, is part of the Single Market. Which was a British idea, driven by Britain. Another, the expansion into eastern Europe, was also a British idea, driven by Britain. Two of the biggest arguments used by Leavers were British ideas.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Do you think it is justified then, to judge by your question?

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No death treats are unacceptable. A public beating is more like it. :laugh4:

If they have colluded at least malfeasance in public office should be put to them.

EDIT

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IA is implying that said death threats are justified

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Don't put words in my mouth.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

It's simple. All Leave needs to do to get the support even of Remainers like myself is to set out plans for keeping their promises. For instance, how do they propose to increase the NHS budget by 350 million per week. That particular promise doesn't need cooperation from outside parties like their other promises, like the easiest and bestest trade deals in the world with countries gagging to sign them.

BTW, one of the principle reasons for Brexit, free movement of labour, is part of the Single Market. Which was a British idea, driven by Britain. Another, the expansion into eastern Europe, was also a British idea, driven by Britain. Two of the biggest arguments used by Leavers were British ideas.

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You still don't get it. It has nothing to do with money. It's about voting out people who make our laws. It says a lot about remoaners that they bang on about money all the time. It shows their true character.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

You still don't get it. It has nothing to do with money. It's about voting out people who make our laws. It says a lot about remoaners that they bang on about money all the time. It shows their true character.

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Yeah, all of those remoaners who are complaining on and on about "decreased employment prospects" or "food prices increasing". Little things like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econom...ects_of_Brexit
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47401160

Who's the traitor, IA? Who's is making their country a worse place to live it? Who's really pulling the strings?

Go on.

Make up a conspiracy theory so i can laugh at it.

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

Yeah, all of those remoaners who are complaining on and on about "decreased employment prospects" or "food prices increasing". Little things like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econom...ects_of_Brexit
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47401160

Who's the traitor, IA? Who's is making their country a worse place to live it? Who's really pulling the strings?

Go on.

Make up a conspiracy theory so i can laugh at it.

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Ah. So not selling out is being a traitor?

~:smoking:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49909309

Government proposes keeping Northern Ireland basically within the EU Single Market etc. for four years with an option to review every four years - descied by the NI Assembly and not Westminster.

So, basically, the people of Northern Ireland or their elected representatives get to decide.

Now, watch the EU shout it down - even after one tiny Belgian region held up the EU-Canada trade deal.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

No death treats are unacceptable. A public beating is more like it. :laugh4:

If they have colluded at least malfeasance in public office should be put to them.

EDIT

Don't put words in my mouth.

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I can think of at least two Leavers who have called on the EU to intervene in this affair. Would you want to charge them with malfeasance in public office too?

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

You still don't get it. It has nothing to do with money. It's about voting out people who make our laws. It says a lot about remoaners that they bang on about money all the time. It shows their true character.

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And you don't get it. I'm holding the winners to the promises they made. You won. So you keep your promises. How hard is it to understand?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

And you don't get it. I'm holding the winners to the promises they made. You won. So you keep your promises. How hard is it to understand?

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Exactly when did I or IA make those claims? Or are you saying that no one would have voted leave unless these claims had been made? Regardless of how many times you are told this?

~:smoking:

Nor I.

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Exactly when did I or IA make those claims? Or are you saying that no one would have voted leave unless these claims had been made? Regardless of how many times you are told this?

~:smoking:

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Does it count for anything that the bloke making these promises currently leads the UK government?

I dont remember much in the way of promises from leave during the referendum, I remember a lot of predictions of outcomes, prospects of what would be made possible and proposals of what we should do after though.

"We'll be free to make trade deals as we wish, lets get back to dealing wigh the anglosphere and the commonwealth"

"We'll be free to choose how many people and who are allowed to immigrate, lets reducw it to a sane amount and favour our cousins in the former colonies"

And yes: "We'll have this much money each year we no longer send to the EU, lets put it in the NHS"

The only people I saw to mistake proposals for promises were remainers, every brexiteer I knew understood that what was done with the new situation this vote would bring would hinge on elections not this referenda.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Does it count for anything that the bloke making these promises currently leads the UK government?

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Even though he was not the head at the time of the Referendum?

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by CrossLOPER

Yeah, all of those remoaners who are complaining on and on about "decreased employment prospects" or "food prices increasing". Little things like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econom...ects_of_Brexit
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47401160

Who's the traitor, IA? Who's is making their country a worse place to live it? Who's really pulling the strings?

Go on.

Make up a conspiracy theory so i can laugh at it.

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:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Even though he was not the head at the time of the Referendum?

~:smoking:

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How is that relevant? If he was one of the leaders of the Leave campaign, which he was, then shouldn't he be required to keep his promises once he's in a position to do so, which he is? Are you going to argue that Johnson becoming PM has nothing to do with Brexit?

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

I dont remember much in the way of promises from leave during the referendum, I remember a lot of predictions of outcomes, prospects of what would be made possible and proposals of what we should do after though.

"We'll be free to make trade deals as we wish, lets get back to dealing wigh the anglosphere and the commonwealth"

"We'll be free to choose how many people and who are allowed to immigrate, lets reducw it to a sane amount and favour our cousins in the former colonies"

And yes: "We'll have this much money each year we no longer send to the EU, lets put it in the NHS"

The only people I saw to mistake proposals for promises were remainers, every brexiteer I knew understood that what was done with the new situation this vote would bring would hinge on elections not this referenda.

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https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/pol..._630/image.jpg

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Originally Posted by Boris Johnson, PM of the UK

Which is why I am so determined to deliver now on the promises of that 2016 referendum campaign: not just to honour the will of the people, but to increase the cash available for this amazing national institution

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Go on. Show us your plans.