Fury of the Northmen Mod

welsh faction flags

here are the three contenders for the welsh flags, each one was the coat of arms for various welsh princes in the 12th and 13th centuries (not quite the right time frame I know, but it's as close as I found). I feel there are pros and cons with all of them...

The arms of Owain Gwynedd is the closest to the time-frame of the game(died 1170), but I feel it could be easily confused with the 'Three Lions' of the English flag.

The arms of Rhys ap Gruffedd is the second closest to the time frame of the game (died 1197), and no confusion would occur with England, but I fear it might be the most complicated to make in the game.

The arms of Llywellyn ap Gruffedd is my personal favourite, despite it being the furthest from the game (died 1282). This emblem was a sign of Welsh nationalism right up to today, it's fairly simple, but distinctive, and so wouldn't be confused with any other factions.

Anyway, I hope that helps, and bear in mind I've got some modding experience myself so would be happy to assist with that side if you want as well as just supplying information.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (thrashaholic @ July 12 2004,05:32)]

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]welsh faction flags

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Outstanding They don´t look anything like the one in VI, great Do you know the history behind them? The earliest flag contains three lions right? Is it three minor kingdoms joined together? Usually it helps to know the background of a flag/ banner to determine which one would be most suitable to use. I especially like the first and last. The first doesn´t get mixed up with the English since they have three gold/ yellow lions IMHO and don´t appear in the game. Can´t remember on top of my head what the Saxon flag looks like, isn´t there three lions there too?

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Anyway, I hope that helps, and bear in mind I've got some modding experience myself so would be happy to assist with that side if you want as well as just supplying information.

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He he, I was rather hoping you´d say that Help from experienced modders are always welcome. Mail me at pse@brevet.se and we´ll talk more and I´ll get you the updated info you need. Welcome aboard our dragon cruiser

Sure I can give some history for them all, but bear in mind all of the flags are from after the end date for your mod.

The first two flags come from the 12th century.

The death of Henry I of England in 1135 was the signal for more vigorous and more hostile policies by the Welsh, though firm action by Stephen (the king who succeeded Henry) and the marcher lords held the promise of successful defence. Henry II succeeded Stephen in December 1154, determined to restore authority to the kingdom and to repair the damage caused by civil strife and the lack of a strong central administration. By 1157 he was ready to turn his attention to Wales.

Two princes carried Wales through these difficult years, Owain Gwynedd in the north and Rhys ap Gruffydd in south Wales. Both had complex problems to deal with: the rival Welsh dynasties, the marcher lords, and to live in the shadow of a rich and powerful neighbour.

Owain Gwynedd, Prince of Gwynedd 1137-70, was born circa 1109. In 1137 he succeeded his father Gruffydd ap Cynan (1081-1137) to the kingdom of Gwynedd, which covered most of north Wales. While England was engaged in civil war, Owain used his skill as statesman and soldier to extend his frontiers. In 1157 Henry II led his first campaign against Owain, but it ended in a truce. He was required to do homage to Henry but it was not long before Owain was acting with complete independence. When Madog ap Maredudd died in 1160, he attacked Powys and extended his influence to the east. Six years later, the Council of Woodstock attempted to reduce the Welsh princes from client status to that of dependent vassalage, and the subsequent uprising was led by Owain and Rhys ap Gruffydd of south Wales. Henry's second attempt at subduing Wales failed ignominiously and left Owain free to capture Basingwerk and Rhuddlan castles (1166-67). In 1168 he set foot on negotiations with Louis VII of France to build an alliance between Gwynedd and France against their common enemy. It was a course which required great finesse and firm judgement. In one direction it pointed to a policy which would be used to good effect by later rulers of Gwynedd, the search for recognition and an alliance in Europe. Having openly defied Henry in 1168 by offering to help Louis, Owain maintained his independent position until his death. He left behind him a reputation of wisdom and magnanimity.

In south Wales a major development in the 12th century was the establishment of Rhys ap Gruffydd - known as The Lord Rhys - as the ruler of a reinvigorated kingdom of Deheubarth. After Gruffydd's death in 1137 his four sons worked closely together to defend and consolidate their territory. Each son, Anarawd, Cadell, Maredudd and Rhys took the lead in succession, and there seems to have been no discord between them. Their raids extended from west Wales to the lordship of Glamorgan. Anarawd was assassinated by men from north Wales in 1143; Cadell and his younger brothers achieved the reconquest of Ceredigion, making it once more part of Deheubarth, before Cadell was wounded so severely by Normans from Tenby that he was effectively removed from the political scene. Maredudd died in 1155, leaving Rhys as ruler of the southern kingdom.

Between 1158 and 1165 Rhys was under heavy pressure from Henry II. He was persuaded to submit, despite the loss of territory involved when Ceredigion and Cantref Bychan were restored to their Norman lords. Immediate retaliation by Rhys and his kinsmen, an attempt to take Carmarthen in 1159, and a successful attack on Llandovery in 1162 pointed for Henry II a recurrent danger: the Welsh prince would not accept an enhanced Anglo-Norman presence in West Wales.


The third flag is of the last Welsh prince and from the 13th century.

The years that followed the death of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth saw a major reversal in the fortunes of Gwynedd, culminating in the Treaty of Woodstock, concluded with King Henry III in 1247, a year after the death of Llywelyn's son Dafydd. Under the terms of the treaty, Gwynedd lost all its lands to the east of the River Conwy.

In 1255, Llywelyn ap Gruffydd defeated his brothers Owain (d.1282) and Dafydd (d.1283), in battle at Bryn Derwin. Owain was imprisoned, and Llywelyn set about reasserting the authority of Gwynedd and thereafter extending it into a supremacy over much of the rest of Wales. In 1267 his position as overlord was recognized by Henry III in the Treaty of Montgomery when the English king accepted Llywelyn's homage as prince of Wales.

Ten years after his recognition as the prince of Wales by Henry III, Llywelyn was to suffer a humiliating defeat at the hands of the new King Edward I. From the outset, Llywelyn seemed almost to go out of his way to court Edward's anger. In particular, he refused to yield the homage and money payments owing to the king under the terms of the Treaty of Montgomery. He tempted fate further by arranging to marry Eleanor, daughter of rebel baron Simon de Montfort, an act destined to strain Edward's patience to the limit.

Llywelyn began his own castle campaign by strengthening his grandfather's castles at Criccieth, Ewloe, and Dolwyddelan. Moreover, in 1273 he started to build a new castle at Dolforwyn, high above the Severn valley, posing a challenge to the royal frontier post at Montgomery. The prince's refusal to abandon this project was just one incident in an eventual catalogue of disagreements with the new king.

Enough was enough, and in 1276-77 Edward had decided to settle accounts with the recalcitrant Welsh prince. Edward himself took the field at Chester in July 1277, and by August he had some 15,600 troops in his pay. Against these odds, Llywelyn had no choice but to sue for peace. The ensuing Treaty of Aberconwy represented a comprehensive humiliation for the prince of Wales. Stripped of his overlordship he had won ten years earlier, Gwynedd was again reduced to its traditional heartland to the west of the River Conwy.

On 21 March 1282, Llywelyn's brother, Dafydd, attacked Hawarden Castle and sparked off the war of 1282-83. Llywelyn was faced with an almost impossible dilemma. Torn between his fealty to the king and his loyalty to his brother Dafydd and his people, Llywelyn was to side with his brother and led the Welsh resistance to the inevitable invasion by Edward I. By the end of the year Llywelyn was dead, having been killed on 11 December in a brief engagement with English forces at Irfon Bridge near Builth Wells.

(source: castle-wales)

EDIT: PS I could help with the Welsh units as well I you want.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (thrashaholic @ July 12 2004,13:46)]

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Sure I can give some history for them all, but bear in mind all of the flags are from after the end date for your mod.

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Do you what the lions represent, the colours etc? I was a bit unclear earlier, sorry

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ] PS I could help with the Welsh units as well If you want.

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Great Do you have any suggestions from the top of your head now?
If you want you can also look into all the faction specifics of the Welsh and if you have the time and feel to start on other English factions just let me know. We already have a lot of material from VI plus info we´ve researched ourselves but names, kings, heroes, provinces, terrain, buildings etc are always short of demand. Some unique building/ structure or units always puts flavour to a faction, don´t you think? Regarding provinces I think the Welsh will loose one of the northern provinces from VI (can´t remember it´s name). Could you look into making a four province Welsh kingdom, not counting Cornwall which I´n not shure should belong to the Welsh at all, what do you think?

Welsh Army List

Cavalry

Teulu-

Literally meaning “family”, the Teulu were the professional noble bodyguards of individual princes and chieftains. Although cavalry are generally not best suited to the rough mountainous terrain of Cymru (Wales), the Teulu often rode into battle. Being of the nobility, the Teulu could afford the best of military equipment and were very well armed by Celtic standards: they wore chain mail and helmets, and carried a shield and a lance, making them a pivotal force on the battlefield.

Royal unit of 40 men
Strong charge
Good Attack
Good Morale
Armoured
Can dismount before battle (…into Bonheddwr)
(Should be pretty expensive)

Infantry

Spear-men

Same as VI (round shield)

Celtic Warriors

Same as VI

Archers

Same as VI

Javelin-men

Same as VI “dart-men”

Merionydd long spear-men

The spear was the weapon of choice in Wales, with those from the North being particularly skilled in its use. The men of the Merionydd area of Gwynedd were renowned throughout for their superb ability with the spear. The general consensus amongst the Cymry (Welsh) was “the longer the spear the better”, and as such the men of Merionydd carried spears as long as pikes. As well as their pikes, they had small round shields and fought in Phalanx-like formations.
60 man unit (best in deep formations etc.), fast, weak defence/attack, poor morale, strong charge, no armour, only available in Gwynydd




Welsh Bandits

Same as VI (massive valour bonus in Gwent)

Gwent Warriors

Frequent in fighting within the principality and border skirmishes with the English led to the men of Gwent becoming accustomed to war, they became “a jack of all trades”. Carrying a powerful bow, that could pin a horseman’s leg to his horse, a large sword and a small round shield, the prominent tactics in Gwent were to ambush the enemy, pepper them with arrows and then charge in for the kill.

60 man unit, fast, strong charge, strong attack, no armour, poor morale, only available in Gwent

Bonheddwr

The Bonheddwr were free nobles, the elite foot soldiers of the Prince’s armies. Before a battle these champions would often walk forward in front of their army insulting, taunting and challenging their opposition (much to the amusement of their fellows), and be accompanied by shouting and jeering from the lower ranking men, and the din of their war trumpets. The Bonheddwr were lightly armoured, and the individual carried a spear, a small round shield and several javelins into battle.

40 man unit, fast, strong charge, good attack, armoured



NO SEIGE ENGINES… WHATSOEVER


Here is Wales with four provinces as aked...

Wales regions

I have drawn a map of the factions in England and Wales...

British factions

Now a little explaination (including the Cornwall problem):

With regard to the extra Saxon faction I think you have two options Sussex (with Kent) or Essex (with East Anglia), and then the two provinces that make up the kingdom that you haven't chosen should be rebel.

IMHO Strathcylde should get its own faction as they were a major power of the remaining Celtic Britons (the others being the Welsh and the Cornish), and maintained their independence and resisted the English up until 945. Strathclyde should recieve the province they currently have in VI and Cumbria (from the Northumbrians). I'll do some more research into them soon ~:thumb:

I've put Gwent in a dotted line to suggest that it could be a rebel province because strictly speaking it was independent at the time, but it could be included with Wales for balance and cultural reasons.

Now onto Cornwall....*drumroll*.... well, historically it was divided from Wales at the battle of Dyrham in 577, and had its own royal lineage and language, similar, but seperate from the Welsh. On the other hand though, the English at the time reffered to Cornwall as West Wales. I can see benefits and adavantages for both giving Cornwall to Wales and not doing so: Historically it would be innacurate to do so, and it might be an advantage for an otherwise united Wales to have an easily defensible foot-hold against the Saxons in South-West England, but making it a rebel province IMO would make it too weak to put up any sort of defence against the English, which in reality it did, maintaining its independence for several hundred years... It's up to you...

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (thrashaholic @ July 14 2004,08:34)]

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Great units composition and I do like the unique province units and their stats. How was the Welsh bowmen in comparison with their neighbours at this time? I´ve always thought they were better?

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I have drawn a map of the factions in England and Wales... IMHO Strathcylde should get its own faction as they were a major power of the remaining Celtic Britons (the others being the Welsh and the Cornish), and maintained their independence and resisted the English up until 945. Strathclyde should recieve the province they currently have in VI and Cumbria (from the Northumbrians).

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I defenitely know that we can fit in one fac in the south-east part and one more on Ireland. I do agree however that Strathclyde is the first runner up for a third fac addition. If we can´t fit them in they will be very strong and i agree that they should also have Cumbria.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]With regard to the extra Saxon faction I think you have two options Sussex (with Kent) or Essex (with East Anglia), and then the two provinces that make up the kingdom that you haven't chosen should be rebel.

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So EA was indeed inferior to both Sussex and Wessex?

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I've put Gwent in a dotted line to suggest that it could be a rebel province because strictly speaking it was independent at the time, but it could be included with Wales for balance and cultural reasons.

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I think we´ll let game play and balance decide on this. It´s and interesting prov to hold though due to the unique units there.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Now onto Cornwall....*drumroll*.... well, historically it was divided from Wales at the battle of Dyrham in 577, and had its own royal lineage and language, similar, but seperate from the Welsh. On the other hand though, the English at the time reffered to Cornwall as West Wales. I can see benefits and adavantages for both giving Cornwall to Wales and not doing so: Historically it would be innacurate to do so, and it might be an advantage for an otherwise united Wales to have an easily defensible foot-hold against the Saxons in South-West England, but making it a rebel province IMO would make it too weak to put up any sort of defence against the English, which in reality it did, maintaining its independence for several hundred years....

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Hmm, this is a dilemma. Personally I feel that leaving Cornwall to the Welsh do prove to be more of a challenge both for the Welsh and the Saxons. And you´re right that the AI won´t put up half the fight if they are rebs.

Really nice work Trashaholic

When you go through other facs in the Brittish Isles keep in mind that we´re trying to keep as many provs from the original VI game as possible. We´ve already eliminated one Welsh and added one Irish and maybee we´ll have to take away one in the Scot/ Pict region as well all due to not getting the map quite as big as in VI. Keep up the good work

Cool stuff, it's good to get some info on units. It's often hard to find the right info to make the stats from. Good work thrashaholic. Welcome BTW https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...icons/wave.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]
With regard to the extra Saxon faction I think you have two options Sussex (with Kent) or Essex (with East Anglia), and then the two provinces that make up the kingdom that you haven't chosen should be rebel.


So EA was indeed inferior to both Sussex and Wessex?

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Maybe, maybe not, I mostly made that decision based on my own prejudices https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...s/gc-blush.gif I'm live in Sussex you see, and so don't like Kent very much. And I feel Suusex or Essex or Wessex sound nicer than East Anglia. I probably should have done some more research before posting that https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...ns/gc-oops.gif , but don't worry, I'll get back on the job and I'll look into this South-Eastern faction...

I'll also try and look into some of the more unique aspects of the Welsh culture at the time, so we might get some unique buildings for them.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (thrashaholic @ July 16 2004,02:14)]

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Maybe, maybe not, I mostly made that decision based on my own prejudices https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...s/gc-blush.gif I probably should have done some more research before posting that https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...ns/gc-oops.gif , but don't worry, I'll get back on the job and I'll look into this South-Eastern faction...

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That´s ok, we all have our favourites, he he I have no info on Essex, can you post some?
IMO both Sussex and Kent are ruled out because they came under Mercian rule from 750 and 785. Wessex on the other hand is, with EA, the strongest contender for our new SE faction. Founded around 519AD, gained overlordship over all the saxon when defeating the Mercians in 825AD and gained the preemminent position in SE England from c. 900AD and can roughly from this time be identified as England.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I'll also try and look into some of the more unique aspects of the Welsh culture at the time, so we might get some unique buildings for them.

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To get some ideas you might wanna check out earlier posts in this thread and Norse´s anglo-tech tree on page 11. Besides unique units we´re looking for unique structures that we can incorporate in the tech-tree or even on the battle-maps. Ex: In Finland and the Baltics thousands of hill-forts still litters the countryside. Always located on a hill, surrounded preferably by forest and protected by a man-high stone wall. This will probably be used to some extent on the province maps for that region.

OK, I've done a whole load more research, and it turns out you were right, East Anglia was historically the most dominant faction from thse four rebel provinces in VI. But, I have found evidence suggesting that the areas of Middlesex and Kent were both dependencies and very culturally similar to Essex, which might make it a better faction choice gameplay-wise.

Maybe we could have both?

OK, I've done some more work and have drawn up a map of all the possible British and Irish factions using the VI map:

map

there's an explaination on the page.

EDIT: and here's the page I got the Irish stuff from, it's pretty good, it has all the names of the kings and some history for all the Irish provinces Irish site

I'm not sure on the time frame of this mod but on the unique buildings thing Alfred the Great built a series of fortifications called Burghs at strategic points to defend against the Danes, could perhaps be the saxon equivilant of a small fort (not as large as a full scale fort but not as small as a stockade?)

Also there are Thegns who were freemen and officials most of whom's lord was the King and were primarily warriors who acted as his bodyguard but some served the Eeorls or wealthier Thegns and were supported by the Fyrd.


in the 11th (i think) century there are the Huscarles and also Butsecarles who were a naval equivilant of Huscarles but MAY also have fought on land.

oh and the Thegns were preceded by the Gesith the companions of a King or Lord.

Ummmm, How far are you guys.
Do you have a working map?
New units?
Portraits?
When can i expect a beta? Estimation? Guess


Your mod sounds great, i really like the way its looking.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Aethelred @ July 16 2004,09:08)]I'm not sure on the time frame of this mod but on the unique buildings thing Alfred the Great built a series of fortifications called Burghs at strategic points to defend against the Danes, could perhaps be the saxon equivilant of a small fort (not as large as a full scale fort but not as small as a stockade?)

Also there are Thegns who were freemen and officials most of whom's lord was the King and were primarily warriors who acted as his bodyguard but some served the Eeorls or wealthier Thegns and were supported by the Fyrd.


in the 11th (i think) century there are the Huscarles and also Butsecarles who were a naval equivilant of Huscarles but MAY also have fought on land.

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The timeframe of this mod is roughly from 750 to 1050AD. Theese fortifications, burghs, you mention sounds interesting enough to make a new building. Do you have more data for the thegns? Do you have more info on them, links etc? Thanks in advance

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Inuyasha12 @ July 16 2004,15:51)]Ummmm, How far are you guys. Do you have a working map? New units? Portraits? When can i expect a beta? Estimation? Your mod sounds great, i really like the way its looking.

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Check out this thread for more info on new units, new tech-trees, the general playarea and another cool stuff like having Odin present in the game and replacing the crusades with a viking raiding party. All info are there. Norse will be back around the 10th of august and then I will present a raw-map.
I´m currently working on different coatings for the final map but haven´t found any that I´m 100% satisfied with. I want to bring the landscape more to life, like in RTW and make it more visable so that you can clearly see what kind of terrain a certain province have just by looking at the strategy map. This way you can plan your actions more easily according to the province topography, rivers, forrests etc. As you know this info is very vague in MTW where you can hold the cursor over a designated province and get a description. This is not satisfactory in my opinion.
Norse is making the different tech-trees and Vikinghorde is gonna help him out with some graphics and text editing, Wilpurri and Trax are our main researchers and I´m more keen on mapmaking. Since our goal is to make a far better viking campaign than VI we really have no release date set and I don´t want to guess either so just check back on a regular basis. When we´re getting ready you´ll be shure to know. Take care

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (thrashaholic @ July 16 2004,06:32)]OK, I've done a whole load more research, and it turns out you were right, East Anglia was historically the most dominant faction from thse four rebel provinces in VI. But, I have found evidence suggesting that the areas of Middlesex and Kent were both dependencies and very culturally similar to Essex, which might make it a better faction choice gameplay-wise.

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Can you elaborate on this? We do agree upon having a faction in SE England and I think it´s important to pic the one that is the major contender for this rather than base it on personal opinion. I´m more keen on making this as accurate historically as we possible can.

BTW, good Irish link. What we´re planning is to fit in one more province on Ireland and add one more faction there.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ July 17 2004,11:28)]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (thrashaholic @ July 16 2004,06:32)]OK, I've done a whole load more research, and it turns out you were right, East Anglia was historically the most dominant faction from thse four rebel provinces in VI. But, I have found evidence suggesting that the areas of Middlesex and Kent were both dependencies and very culturally similar to Essex, which might make it a better faction choice gameplay-wise.

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Can you elaborate on this? We do agree upon having a faction in SE England and I think it´s important to pic the one that is the major contender for this rather than base it on personal opinion. I´m more keen on making this as accurate historically as we possible can.

BTW, good Irish link. What we´re planning is to fit in one more province on Ireland and add one more faction there.

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Right, ok, for historical accuracy I would choose East Anglia as the new South East faction, they were the next most powerful Anglo-Saxon kingdom after Wessex, Mercia and Northumbria.

Looking at some of the maps I've studied though, East Anglia should get two provinces (rather than the one that the rebel faction got): East Engle and Middle Engle from the Mercians.

I've drawn it all up on this map https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...evalcheers.gif

I was only suggesting Essex might be better for gameplay because they would have more directions for expansion, but East Anglia it is https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...-2thumbsup.gif

sorry for the disorganised nature of my previous posts but i was in a hurry:

In the 7th Century there were two classes of Warrior:

Geoguth (Youth), these were young un married warriors who were often the sons of Duguth (Proven Warriors) who owned
no land of their own and instead dwelt with their lord serving him where ever he went.Once a Geoguth had served and proven
himself to his Lord satisfaction he was given an endowment of land and he became a Duguth.

Duguth (Proven Warriors) no longer dwelt in their Lord's household, married and raised a family. They still attended councils and as he became more prosperous he would raise retainers of his own from the more prosperous Ceorls called Geneats and other Geoguths who had not yet sworn themselves to the King or other lord and these formed his Hearth Troop.

These two classes and their followers would then join the Kings Gesith (Companions) when he assembled his army to make up the Fyrd.

In the mid 9th century these classes were replaced by Drengs and Thegns:

Drengs (young warriors) performed the same duties as Geoguths.

Thegns (or Thanes) were primarily warriors who mostly served the King (Kings Thengs and the Most trusted Kings Thegns were also called Gesith.) but the Ealdormen (Eorls)
or even richer Thegns had their own Lesser Thegns. They served because the King was their Lord and also the amount of land they owned (land was provided by the King/Eorl) required that they do so (1 warrior for every 5 hides of land so most often Thegns were expected to perform military service but if he owned more than 5 hides then his own Lesser Thegns or Ceorls would also serve).Ceorls (free-folk, farmers etc) who owned 5 Hides of land (1 Hide = amount of landed needed to support 1 family) became entitled to the rights and privilages of a Thegn. The Thegns served the King or other Lord on a rotation and went with him everywhere acting as both his bodyguard and lesser officials, along with military service they were required to repair fortresses, work on bridges etc and also other requirments depending on the condition/size of their own estate ordered by the Lord.Thegns were usually armed with sword or spear and round shield as well as a small knife called a scramseaxe which was carried by almost every warrior(Gesith, Thegn or Ceorl) and armoured with a mail shirt called a Byrnie and a helmet.


When Huscarles were introduced they replaced/were made up of the remaining elements of the Gesith.

Aethelred, very interesting This actually gives me an idea regarding units and maybee Norse or VH can answer if it´s possible.
This system with younger unproven warriors that with time and experience will turn into hardened veterans awarded by their leader with lands etc makes me think of taking a unit into action and when he reaches a certain experience/ valour level he turns into a better and more upgraded unit?
Could this even be done?

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (PseRamesses @ July 18 2004,19:05)]Aethelred, very interesting This actually gives me an idea regarding units and maybee Norse or VH can answer if it´s possible.
This system with younger unproven warriors that with time and experience will turn into hardened veterans awarded by their leader with lands etc makes me think of taking a unit into action and when he reaches a certain experience/ valour level he turns into a better and more upgraded unit?
Could this even be done?

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It could be cool units to add, but I don't think it's possible to upgrade younger warriors into better units in time. They can only be build and get armour upgades like all normal units. It could had been cool if a unit can be upgraded ones it gets 2 valor or something like that, but I don't think it's possible. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...ns/gc-wall.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (VikingHorde @ July 18 2004,14:35)]It could had been cool if a unit can be upgraded ones it gets 2 valor or something like that, but I don't think it's possible. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...ns/gc-wall.gif

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Yup, that´s what I thought. But you know me... turning every stone in search for a gem ;)

@trashaholic,
Got you welsh shield suggestions. Don´t have the necessary program though to view it. May I suggest you upload them here instead?

OK, here they are but in jpeg form, they may look slightly different in-game, and I only spent about half a hour for all of them, so they look a bit rough, I'll work some more on which ever you prefer. https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...s/bigthumb.gif

shields

PS PseRamesses thanks for the help uploading pictures, from now on I'll try uploading and posting all my pictures rather than linking them.

https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...evalcheers.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (thrashaholic @ July 20 2004,03:11)]

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]OK, here they are but in jpeg form, they may look slightly different in-game, and I only spent about half a hour for all of them, so they look a bit rough, I'll work some more on which ever you prefer.

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Lokks good for now. We´ll return to them when we start working on the shields. It´s Norse´s dept. and maybee VH will help out too?

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]PS PseRamesses thanks for the help uploading pictures, from now on I'll try uploading and posting all my pictures rather than linking them.

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No prob m8 Easy, wasn´t it? Looking forward to more pic-posts.
https://forums.totalwar.org/forum/no...s/bigthumb.gif

On the Burgh's thing from what i've read it seems most were either wooden pallisades/forts or like the old hill forts (series of earth banks and ditches and then the actual fortification at the top)dunno if this helps any...

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Aethelred @ July 22 2004,07:04)]On the Burgh's thing from what i've read it seems most were either wooden pallisades/forts or like the old hill forts (series of earth banks and ditches and then the actual fortification at the top)dunno if this helps any...

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Hmm, so the fort is looking like something from the movie Braveheart when he comes into town avenging his killed wife, have I understood you correctly?

i've never seen braveheart i'll try and find some images.

closest i could find is this (scroll down to the section on Maiden Castle and the diagram of old sarum:

Link


(obviously replace the curtain walls with pallisade or something)


the other thing you could do for this would be something like a cross between the MTW Fort and VI's forified village.