It is highly unlikely that stealing, raping, smoking and drug dealing youth would have any common ground with radical imams. So far the first radical imam behind any of the riots has yet to be found, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Meneldil
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It is highly unlikely that stealing, raping, smoking and drug dealing youth would have any common ground with radical imams. So far the first radical imam behind any of the riots has yet to be found, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Meneldil
When they steal, rape and deal drugs they justify it with their faith AdrianII. I highly doubt there is a radical imam behind all this but Islam is the dividing factor here, be it an excuse or not. You want to throw it all on their living conditions, then explain to me why it is spreading to Holland, Belgium, Greek and even Denmark(!). I am just going to kick the shit out of them next saturday, wanna come?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Oh sure. Dealing drugs for Allah. Raping in the name of the Prophet (honoured be his name). LOL! What propaganda have you been reading now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
No, I have jihad training in the Ardennes on Saturday mornings.Quote:
I am just going to kick the shit out of them next Saturday, wanna come?
Not so fast...in the U.S. the prisons have quite a few of converts to Islam. Their background is of course: theft, rape, drugs, murder, etc. (Whether or not they have reformed while in prison is a separate matter.) You really can't reject the possibility of radical imams on that basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
And from what I've heard it is not uncommon for jihadists to have some interesting chemicals in their systems during combat. Considering radical imams think suicide bombing is OK, I wouldn't put much of anything past them, nor their followers.
Oh sure. Dealing drugs for Allah. Raping in the name of the Prophet (honoured bhis name). LOL! What propaganda have you been reading now?
You are pretty uninformed for a journalist. Find me a dutch radical muslim without a crime record if you please. It is called 'funding'.
LOL! What propaganda have you been reading now?
NRC Handelsblad and De Trouw mostly.
No, I have jihad training in the Ardennes on Saturday mornings
Owww common, It will be fun. Maybe a nice item for your newspaper, the shit is going to hit the fan next saturday, unless it stops of course.
Find me some radical imams behind the French riots, that's what we are on about. Until now, all that imams have done in these neighbourhoods is to patrol the streets in the evenings and to call for calm, to urge parents to keep their children off the streets and to explain in their Friday sermons that the rioting is an abomination in the eyes of Allah. Heck, a lot of rioters aren't even of Arab or Muslim descent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Unless you and Red Harvest can come up with the goods, you had better keep those tinfoil hats out of sight. They look rather silly.
I never said they were, the imams cannot control them, they lost them a long time ago. But to say that Islam has nothing to do with it is just silly. But how much proof do you need really? When you will finally recognise the proof it will be slicing of your head. Explain to me the occurance of riots in those other countries please, and I would like to hear the words 'social exclusion'.
Riots in The Netherlands? Four cars were set on fire in Rotterdam in an apparent copy-cat action. No riots, no confrontations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Anyway, since there is an urban underclass in most European countries I wouldn't be surprised to see more such incidents. If you want to know what I really think is a major cause of such behaviour, it would be the criminal subculture in these neighbourhoods, reinforced by the drug trade.
I didn't know one would have to follow the teaching of Islam to be a radicam muslim.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
And, yeah, we won't find any radical Imam among the rioters, but what's happening is what these imams have been preaching for for years.
What does 'a lot' stand for ? 10% ? 20% ? Of course, there are the blacks, who aren't arabs, but who are also mostly muslims. I'd be surprised if more than 20% of the rioters are actually white or 'asians' (who might aswell have converted to Islam, since it's somewhat fancy lately)Quote:
Heck, a lot of rioters aren't even of Arab or Muslim descent.
I don't know what you would call 200 north africans with knives, baseballbats and gassoline that are shouting 'the war has begun'. And a lot more happened then the newspapers are willing to print, people have been molested while the police were doing their thing (which is nothing). Screw excuses, we are going to peel them thinly and turn them into sails so they may have some use after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
LINKQuote:
November 08, 2005
Spencer: Jihad in Europe?
This morning in FrontPage I follow up on this piece by pulling together a bit more of the evidence about what is happening in France (and elsewhere in Europe now). Many news links in the original:
Has an intifada begun in France — an all-out jihad? Are the French facing what is by now, as the riots are well into their second week and have engulfed virtually the entire country, a full-scale insurrection from immigrant youth who simply resent being marginalized and shunted to the fringes of French society? Or does the unrest have something to do with the agenda of jihadists worldwide? As is becoming increasingly well known, Osama bin Laden and others all over the world want to unify the Islamic world under a restored caliphate, reestablish the rule of Islamic law, and extend the hegemony of that law, Sharia, to the rest of the world also. Does that play any role in the French riots?
Evidence so far is somewhat sketchy. Mainstream media reports have centered on the rioters’ economic and cultural marginalization. “Theirs,” laments AP, “is a drab life of days spent smoking hashish, hanging out on street corners.” An 18-year-old named Ahmed complains: “You wear these clothes, with this color skin and you’re automatically a target for police.” Some analysts, indulging in various degrees of schadenfreude, have alleged that France’s ingrained racism, snobbery toward outsiders, and mistreatment of Muslim immigrants are responsible for the riots.
Yet the horror stories detailing this mistreatment that are now filling the news do not entirely ring true. France has not neglected its sizable Muslim minority. Not too long ago it established an official organization to oversee French Islam, the French Council for the Muslim Religion (CFCM), and has even discussed revising France’s secular laws to allow the government to fund mosques in France, in order to wean them away from “extremist” foreign influences.
Nor have Muslims been marginalized in French public life. Dalil Boubakeur, leader of the CFCM and imam of the Paris mosque, enjoys high visibility. After the French government announced plans to expel jihadist imams from France in May 2004, then-Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin told Boubakeur that he wanted to “reassure the Muslim community” of “his willingness to treat it as he treats other faiths.” Boubakeur explained that as far as Raffarin was concerned, “there is no lumping together of the expulsion of imams and the Muslim community in general.” When two French journalists were kidnapped in Iraq in August 2004, then-Interior Minister (and current Prime Minister) Dominique de Villepin went to Boubakeur’s mosque to join Muslims in prayer for their release — and drew applause when he spoke of the unity between non-Muslims and Muslims in France.
De Villepin’s mosque visit was emblematic of France’s ongoing efforts to make its Muslim population feel included, loved, and French — efforts they are now being universally excoriated for not having made. And there are several indications that the riots are not wholly or solely about economic and social marginalization at all, and that the Islamic jihad agenda is a significant element fueling their continuing spread:
• It has long been established that there is a significant jihadist presence among French Muslims. Recently six Muslims in Paris were arrested for recruiting for the jihad in Iraq.
• The rioters have been shouting the jihad battle cry, “Allahu akbar.” As Muhammad Atta wrote in his final exhortation to himself, “When the confrontation begins, strike like champions who do not want to go back to this world. Shout, ‘Allahu Akbar,’ because this strikes fear in the hearts of the non-believers.” While the mainstream media continues to identify the rioters as “French-born youths of Arab or African origin, many of them Muslim,” in fact the Islamic identity of the rioters is quite clear: rioters have avoided Muslim-owned businesses, preferring obviously non-Muslim targets.
• The rioters have thrown Molotov cocktails at two French synagogues, making it likely that they subscribe to the deeply rooted hatred of Jews that so many jihadists share. They have also set two churches on fire, further reinforcing the impression that they view their struggle as fundamentally religious, and consider the terrorizing of Jews and Christians to be part of their religious responsibility, in accord with Qur’an 9:29, which directs Muslims to wage war even against “the People of the Book”: the Qur’an’s term for — primarily — Jews and Christians.
• Mouloud Dahmani is a Muslim leader in France who is trying to prevail upon the French to allow for a group of Muslim Brotherhood sheikhs to negotiate an end to the riots. The Muslim Brotherhood, of course, is the first modern Islamic jihad organization and the direct forefather of Hamas and Al-Qaeda. Dahmani has declared: “All we demand is to be left alone.” This is a strange statement coming from the leader of a community that resents being marginalized and longs to enter the mainstream of French society. Left alone? Quite literally. Journalist Amir Taheri says that the Muslims in France are not actually interested in assimilation at all; rather, they want autonomy: “Some are even calling for the areas where Muslims form a majority of the population to be reorganized on the basis of the ‘millet’ system of the Ottoman Empire: Each religious community (millet) would enjoy the right to organize its social, cultural and educational life in accordance with its religious beliefs.” He reports that “in parts of France, a de facto millet system is already in place.” Muslim leaders control the area and French officials, including police, simply do not enter.
• Postings on Muslim weblogs indicate that the riots are not spontaneous outpourings of rage, but carefully planned endeavors. Some revealed not only the planning involved in the riots, which have now swept all across France and have spread also to Denmark, Belgium and Germany, but also the Islamic supremacist goal behind them. One wrote: “The cops are petrified of us, everything must burn, starting Monday, the operation ‘Midnight Sun’ starts, tell everyone else, rendezvous for Momo and Abdul in Zone 4 ... jihad Islamia Allah Akhbar.” Another added: “You don’t really think that we’re going to stop now? Are you stupid? It will continue, non-stop. We aren’t going to let up. The French won’t do anything and soon, we will be in the majority here.”
Meanwhile, the Union for Islamic Organizations of France, which has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, has issued a fatwa declaring: “It is formally forbidden to any Muslim seeking divine grace and satisfaction to participate in any action that blindly hits private or public property or could constitute an attack on someone’s life.” There is a strange ambiguity in this, recalling that of the CAIR-backed American fatwa condemning attacks on innocent civilians without defining “innocent”: what constitutes attacking “blindly”? Is a focused, targeted attack somehow acceptable?
The time for such ambiguity is long past. And indeed, lines are being drawn everywhere.
It's not their faith. It's because the average French person uses being 'republican' as an excuse to be racist to anyone who isn't white French. Even part of the French beurocracy said so recently.
Holland/Belgium/Denmark/Greece/Germany/Spain?Quote:
Originally Posted by BDC
So why arent the Jews and blacks(african frenchman?) who arent Musliim not rioting?Quote:
It's not their faith. It's because the average French person uses being 'republican' as an excuse to be racist to anyone who isn't white French. Even part of the French beurocracy said so recently.
Hush, that is a valid question given the situation and we don't like that over here. A yugoslavian friend once told me, when the muslim population in a non-muslim country grows bigger then 10% of the overall population then civil war will errupt, and don't they know it. France is proving them wrong with just 1%, they have 9%. All the countries I mentioned before are about 8% jihadmeat, France is learning the hard way that they shouldn't adopt primitive cultures because envy is a bitch when you don't slap it like one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
The moral of the story seems to be, don’t let other cultures/religions/races in mass into your country.
Not saying that I can’t work, the US is a good example of it working (not for the Native Americans) but there has been a lot of hostility here between cultures/religions/races, it is a delicate balance for sure.
Because you read all the wrong blogs. Nothing new there. All this talk of 'Intifadah in France' is just grey noise, the result of middle America working off its small-town blues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Look, there are basically two strains of salafism/wahhabism at work in the Muslim world.
As I said, just give me a couple of phat, juicy French riot imams to sink my teeth in. I won't walk away from the issue. I am genuinely interested in what happens. Of course don't buy the Milosevic line on 10% Muslims = trouble, that is just fascist propaganda, Fragony. And I have this strange attachment to a thing called civilisation, so I never join demonstrations that are intended to 'beat the shit' out of someone or other.
- The 'pious' strain that turns its back on worldly affairs and strives for the pure inner life, which happens to be peaceful and non-political as well. These 'sheikists' as they are known observe all the rules prescribed by stern mullahs. In case of religious emergency they dial a number in one of the Gulf states to get a fatwa telling them whether it is okay to go shopping after dark or something. They are just like Jewish followers of some rabbi or other who order their matzes from the Supreme Rabbinate of Jerusalem. Weird, but not dangerous at all, and certainly not involved in the French riots.
- The militant strain that strives for a new Khalifate. These imams gather very small groups of followers in total isolation from the surrounding society. This isolation is necessary to prepare the followers psychologically for the tasks ahead. Such imams would have to be complete idiots to asociate with rioters and street gangs, thus exposing their networks to police scrutiny.
I would like to see you trying to beat up a 17-year-old streetwise Moroccan though. I know whom I'd put my money on.
~;p
You better put it on the 57 year old street wise New Yorker and ex Marine my friend.Quote:
I would like to see you trying to beat up a 17-year-old streetwise Moroccan though. I know whom I'd put my money on.
I could say the same of you. Besides I dont live in middle america nor a small town.Quote:
Because you read all the wrong blogs. Nothing new there. All this talk of 'Intifadah in France' is just grey noise, the result of middle America working off its small-town blues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Hey Adrian, what was and still the main export in Afganastan? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't berkas or Qurans, it was something that grows and has a pretty flower. So your drug arguement holds no water, like most of your posts. If you're a journalist then that must explain why the news is so inaccurate these days.
Doesn't this fit in with the idea of "French-born youths of Arab or African origin, many of them Muslim"? Lots of malcontent kids who think it's cool to shout Allahu akbar without understanding why, but who will probably grow out of this kind of behaviour as they become older? It's the way with most of kids, to naturally seek extremes when there isn't a guiding hand to keep an eye on them, in poltical as well as social contexts; as the years go by this tends to turn milder among most, whilst a few nutters get stuck in such ways. Granted, the extremes they're seeking now are intolerable and should be punished but it does fit in with the general behaviour of rebellious youths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
To be honest this also reeks of youths. What kind of a serious jihadist would go around posting on websites? Youths use internet and mobile phones continuously and are well at home when it comes to organizing things through electronic means; like Fragony when he states he's planning to taunt Muslims in the weekend, presumably alongside friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Former Yugoslavians have a great track record when it comes to ethnic tolerance, don't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Well, our former friends the Taliban actually were very repressive against opium growers. We supported them too, giving them money for cutting off the heads of farmers.
No, you couldn't. I don't get my information solely from blogs that are up my own political alley.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
If you would take the same approach, you would know for instance that the rioters were not just young Arabs or Muslims. You could learn a lot more by simply reading this thread from beginning to end. Our French friends, who lived the episode, have more than a couple of interesting things to say about it too.
In fact the Taliban were the only movement in recent Afghan history that openly condemned drug production and use and openly burned both poppy plantations and the farmers who planted them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Quote:
So your drug arguement holds no water, like most of your posts. If you're a journalist then that must explain why the news is so inaccurate these days.
[arrogance]Which is the main reason why I don't buy most of the cr@p that passes for 'news'. Oh, and it isn't just today that most 'news' is inaccurate. It has always been that way.
Dear Dave, I am, in fact, remarkably well-informed for a journalist. https://img259.imageshack.us/img259/...sescool5el.gif
[/arrogance]
I like the way Ramadan calls the feeling of the french toward muslims 'racism' and the feeling of the muslims toward the french a refusal of 'self-abandonment'.
I know where I'll be heading this saturday, this is going to hurt
I am just going to kick the shit out of them next saturday, wanna come?
Owww common, It will be fun. Maybe a nice item for your newspaper, the shit is going to hit the fan next saturday
Screw excuses, we are going to peel them thinly and turn them into sails so they may have some use after all.
Shine up the Jackboots guys , the Dutch Nazis are having a party .~:rolleyes:
Don't be careful when you are burning down the mosque Fragony , wouldn't want you to hurt yourself too slightly .
Well, our former friends the Taliban actually were very repressive against opium growers. We supported them too, giving them money for cutting off the heads of farmers.
Shhhh don't confuse him with facts Strijder , and certainly don't mention that his allies are the Drug Barons or that the Predident they helped into power has family holdings given over to opium production .~D
Come on guys, we all know who's behind the riots.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...nald_ap416.jpg
Run, it's Bin Laden in disguise!
Man, just look at the bomb shoes on that mother.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey S
~:eek:
And he's leaning on the new dastardly Al-Qaeda weapon, the Invisible WMD!