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Still on vacation, but found a few minutes to log in and catch up on the thread. A tie vote? Hm...
They're probably both innocent, but having read most of the posts here, I really don't buy the arguments against BG. They look too much like various faulty arguments that I've seen before.
Therefore, vote: Divine Wind. There may not be much against him either, but I think BG is innocent.
Ok, suspicious thing number 1:
He knows what the reference is. This means he is either mafia or one of the few townies who bothered to google it. As I said, it's been a mafia strategy in the past to put something in the kills to frame somebody, and Banquo's vote on Hepcat put him in the lead.Quote:
The Wanax appears to be a reference to a Mycenaen priest-king, or a general Homeric word for king - or, with the grape references, there is a possibility that it links to a Maori place name Wanak/Wanaka where grapes are grown.
Given the apparent megalomania of the first killer in his desire to usurp the Frontroom, I tend towards the former. Better informed villagers than I may have some further insights into the person who would be conversant in Mycenaen tradition.
Thus to satisfy myself, I shall go with my second theory, and accuse the New Zealander amongst us:
Vote: Hepcat
I point this out and he replies with this:
He thinks it's suspicious that I'm trying to end a bandwagon I started :inquisitive:Quote:
Unless that's what the Mafia want you to think. Sasaki trying to kick the chocks away from a bandwagon for what purpose?
Yet I am a rational man, and have no reason to change my vote to Sasaki - for now.
Other villagers may see it differently.
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Unless of course, you are trying to draw attention away from yourself. Now that would be rational.
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If I was mafia, it would be sensible for me to just post a vote for a few rounds. The quiet ones rarely come into the frame till much later. Or pick up on someone who was doing some thinking and change my vote.
Maybe your accomplice got too many votes for comfort?
Side note: this last is just as playful as anything DW has posted, and is followed up with:Quote:
Aha! So you don't deny having an accomplice?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Anyway, I accuse him he accuses me. An easy way of discrediting your an accuser is to make people think they are suspicious--if they are guilty you are innocent. It reminded me of times in past games, say for example the godfather 2 when I accused Myrddraal and promptly got voted by him and the other two mafia. Or in Cosa Nuova:
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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Where I got accused by Kagemusha and doc_bean and tried to make them look suspicious while voting someone else. I was mafia btw ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Also, take Drisos as mafia:
Same tone as Banquo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drisos
This doesn't sound genuine to me. Not very concrete, but there you have it. It would be a sound mafia strategy not to vote your accuser (note how he's now convinced I'm innocent, granted he hasn't been around these last few games but I post this much even when I'm mafia). The town doesn't mind lots of posting as he suggests later in the post, it minds lots of voting. He makes an effort to appear very town friendly. Also, his vote on me would hardly have closed the gap.Quote:
The practical thing would be for me to try and move a small band-wagon in Sasaki's direction, but I am now convinced he's an innocent, for the same reasons I know have brought me to this pass, despite my innocence - he has spoken forthrightly and openly - a mafioso wouldn't make such a song and dance to bring the unwelcome attention of the unthinking mob upon himself.
Then we get this little gem. He's not going to vote DW because he doesn't want innocent blood on his hands. How sweet. Nevermind that if Banquo was a townie it would be in the towns interest to vote for DW. This looks calculated to make him appear innocent. I would not be the least bit surprised if his next post was: "But if I was mafia, why wouldn't I have voted DW? It wouldn't be tied right now if I had. See, I must be innocent."Quote:
It seems that overnight I have moved back into death row.
Sorry, DW, there's no reason for me to suspect you other than your desire to lynch me for speaking out, but self-preservation means I have to change my vote to you. Don C is clearly just on his holidays.
*thinks*.
Nope, I'm not going to meet my Maker with innocent blood on my hands.
Well, there you have it. We can't be certain of much at this stage, but we can be certain that Banquo is far more suspicious than Divine Wind.
I'll stick with my earlier vote for BG.
Vote: Banquo's Ghost
Unvote:Abstain
Vote: BG
Alright Sasaki you've convinced me. His little innocent ploy is what really changed my mind. I must have missed that earlier.
Can't decide even after reading Sasaki's argument..
Vote: Abstain
Geez Sasaki... That is uncharacteristic of you to present such a comprehensive argument... :laugh4:
Vote: Banquo's Ghost
Well, oh well, since one of them will die anyway and BG seems more suspicious given his innocent post about blood and his hands etc, I will:
Vote: Banquo's Ghost
But googling wanax doesn't even come up with anything even slightly related to the place name, so the latter cannot be possible, despite that being what he has claimed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Wow Sasaki, you sure did go at this one chapter and verse.
I was skeptical of the "evidence" against BG before, hence my vote for DW. Now, I am not as sure...you argue compellingly (and from the text with supports).
I'd love to get another response from both on the points raised....hmmm.
Also, from my games with you, when you get into this argument framework, your track record for ferreting out mafiosi is pretty fair.
As before
Vote: Banquo's Ghost
Yes that's very interesting, good point. I don't suppose you could show us the link and how you got there Banquo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Rusher
I've done some searching and it seems that BG was telling the truth. If you search Wanax on Google it will end up saying about Mycenaean Society or something here.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG
http://www.geocities.com/i_georganas/society.html
If you searched on Wikipedia you'll end up at Anax which is the Greek word for King. It you read down a wee bit you get the word Wanaka.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanax
Wanaka is a city in NZ on the southern island. Small place positioned on around a lake. It does have Vineyards around it.
http://www.atoz-nz.com/wineries.asp
Any person who didn't know what they were looking for would have never found this most likely. Not the Mycenaean Greek thing but the fact that there are Vineyards around Wanaka. It took me a while googling Wanaka to find it. But I did eventually.
This leads me to believe that BG knew what he was looking for in order to find out about Wanaka and Vineyards in there. I hardly doubt he just googled it and found out he did some searching around for some time to find it.
I still don't see how you get from "Wanax" to "Wanaka"...they don't seem related in the slightest.
I explained that right up there in that post Sasaki:guitarist:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
There's no "Wanaka" on that wikipedia page.Quote:
Originally Posted by Csar
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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki Article
Right there buddy.:sweatdrop:
Oh. Curse you, Hyphens! That's what I get for relying on QuickSearch.
This is pretty hard to find mind you anything to do with Wanaka and Vineyards since there's only two around the town and considering the fact that it's a small town if you can even call it that more like a resort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Vote: Divine Wind
Sorry guys, killing people for knowing stuff is not my idea of justice. I don't really think DW is mafia (he might be) but I still think BG is innocent.
Does anyone read anything I post?
Why do you think he's innocent?Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_bean
Cause there buddies Sasaki. Going around killing the Villagers. Aren't you doc? Don't lie to me I know the truth.:whip:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
It Is A Warning To The Mafia!!! Here Is Your Chance To Kill The detective!!
Okay, I will help the mafia!
Vote: theRTWGuru
You can't do that you have to vote BG or DW RTWG. I don't know what your trying to pull but I doubt it will work. I think you may need :help:Quote:
Originally Posted by theRTWGuru
I have already admitted that my argument against DW was not water tight, but he's the one I suspect at this time, and hence I voted for him. I did not really expect many others to agree, (indeed, it works better for the town if everyone voices their own opinions), but I think it is important to suspect people, because if we all act super-nice to one another then that works to the mafias advantage. It's entirely possible that DW is innocent, but I recognized something which was suspicious to me, and thats how I voted. If no-one else felt the same, then he wouldn't be at risk of a lynch. On the other hand, some of those who voted for DW could well be the in mafia (bandwagon strategy), and likewise those who voted for Banquo's Ghost...Quote:
I don't see any logic at all in the case against divine wind...Masy seemed to accuse him mainly of joking around.
I don't think he would have inserted the reference and then pointed it out himself. Gut feeling I guess. It's pretty much the same as when I sided with Kage (iirc ?) against you when you both claimed to be the detective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Wow, you haven't played many mafia games before haven't you ?Quote:
Originally Posted by theRTWGuru
If they kill you at night, the village gains nothing. If they don't kill you, you have a good chance of getting hanged. If you claim to be the detective later, there's a good chance no one will believe you anymore.
Also, you have to vote for Divine Wind or Banquo's Ghost
Giving a red herring like Wanax or the hat with grapes is only useful if they actually point to a particular player. But you can’t drag such herrings out of thin air. The herring planter must have had knowledge of the Wanax or Wanaka and the connection with grapes beforehand.
BG could be such a knowledgeable player given his profession.
Are there any other players that could have had this knowledge? Any researchers for any of the mods in this game?
It could also very well be just a mafia trying to write a little story and the hat with grapes or wanax is part of that story. The second kill description indicates this. It could also be the invention of GH.
Devine Wind is claiming to have no time playing mafia… personally I would just jump on that bandwagon to help him not get fired in his new job.
Vote: Devine Wind
Just curious, is this rule a joke? Tons of people in this thread have based their entire arguments off of previous games.Quote:
Originally Posted by GH
Anyway, to get a vote in while I'm near a computer, Vote: Divine Wind
I just can't decide.:juggle2: I had pretty much made up my mind to follow Masy's lead, but now he himself is showing some doubt. Sasaki is adamant -- and has lodged 3 successive votes for BG. I guess I'll follow that lead.
Vote: Banquo's Ghost
I hope its on target....