Htw Spin-off Mod - Ancient: TW

Hi Western, thanks for the feedback. I think the anachronistic names are about my biggest niggle with it now, but as you've spotted, the hard part is finding authentic alternatives, especially for northern and western Europe :book:

Damn those illiterate forebears of ours :laugh4:

A few more provinces for the Mid-East would be good - maybe Edom in the proper place, Moab, something else in northern Syria like Carchemish or Bit-Adini - pity Arabia is such a useless space on the map - Ammon, maybe, but we really are getting into bit-part players with a big chunk of dirt. The irony of urbanisation, I suppose - all the "big guys" as factions are crammed right up next to each other on the map...

I'd also like to redraw some borders around Asia Minor - Nicaea is too big to really be Arzawa, for instance. Which would mean conjoining a few European provinces, but to be honest, they can take it. So maybe a new map for the main campaigns one day, as well....

Territories notwithstanding, I am quite attached to my 'one-province wonders' , though - Ugarit, Urartu, Edom, Israel, Phoenicia, Alisya (and in late also Assyria and Egypt - oh, how are the mighty fallen ~D), they add a certain challenge IMHO.

I made tremendous progress with the new map last night - I have got LMM working, it's producing wonderful error-free test maps, but when I did a "full" run at 2am or so, it seemed to have trouble with "water on land" features. But even so, I think I'm 99% of the way to the map for the expansion, though. Needless to say I'm a bit groggy this morning :yes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by me

I think I'm 99% of the way to the map for the expansion

---

:embarassed: Why oh why oh why don't I keep my big mouth shut? :clown:

I might be 99% there, but all the hard work's in the last 1%...

The big problem is that the LBM palettes seem to have changed between MTW1.1 and the VI add on. Once I have corrected the palettes (mostly done) I think I should be getting close.... Still LMM is an incredible tool, and even if it takes me another week to sort it all out, it will have saved me a month or more :2thumbsup:

More news when I have it....

:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2: Yihaa!!!! :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:

The new map is finally working, and there's just the tidying up to do now - it has rather unromantic province names like Regio01 to Region47, and all border crossings are LUSH, FLAT, NO RIVER etc, but it's not too hard to sort those out. Now that it's playable, I realise I have a lot more room than expected, so will probably subdivide the provinces a bit more, for more detail where it counts. Then the background map needs updating (remove the old province names, redraw the sea borders - the naval side is a bit confusing, as the old sea regions are marked on the map, but they do not correspond with the new ones ~D)

Then I can press on with the units and factions - eight factions so far, but I might actually make 6 of these minor, as the real action is with just two of them....

Let me guess, Alexander versus the Persians? Rome versus Carthage?

That would be telling.... ~D

Hi Macsen

Intriguing:yes: I'm hoping the Assyrians are maybe in there. Those guys really were world conquerors of their day. But there's no point hoping - just got to wait for you to tell us. Good luck with this. I'm amazed how few new maps ever got made:2thumbsup:

wooow good going mate

Quote:

---

I'm amazed how few new maps ever got made

---

After doing one, I'm not :laugh4:

It is incrediby complex, and there are so many things that CAN go wrong, debugging is a nightmare - pretty much all you know is that it isn't working, with very few clues. However, I did learn heck of a lot about the process, and the "rules" of the map, and a few more things that can "kill" a scenario. The most annoying one of all is the way the game can be very picky about the NAMES of PROD_FILES. One that had me baying for blood was that the new campaign worked with a file called NM_unit_prod.txt, but when I changed its name to NM2_unit_prod.txt, it didn't - this one has caught me before, and it is infuriating!:furious3:

Actually, the only other completely new map I'm aware of is the one for HTW, most of them are just variations of the original map with extra provinces (like the XL one). NTW used a new backdrop, but with original borders, Age of Warlords (IIRC) has a few extra provinces/islands but I'm not sure if that one's still going.

I do have plans for at least one more new map, after this one, and I have the "base map" ready but will need to do some research for borders etc. Then onwards with the next expansion :2thumbsup:

And I'm also tempted to do a map of the USA and maybe turn American Total War (the Nap add-on custom/MP expansion) into an SP campaign as well, but that's a LONG way into the future :clown:

As for the Ancient expansion - I'll announce it when it's released! But I'm making good progress now, started getting units and homelands sorted last night...


EDIT:
And if you're fishing for clues the name of the UNIT_PROD won't help -- NM means "New Map" ~D

I sense this will be good...

Hi Macsen

There is one other new map I'm aware of. Italy Total War had a 70 province map of Italy and the Adriatic that wasn't just a blow up of the original (unlike Reconquista). Worked fine but it was monochrome, with no colour distinction between land and sea. It was surprising how much that detracted from the feel of the game. You spend a lot of time staring at the map so it helps if it is a)mildly pretty/interesting and b)actually reflects the period and isn't a set of random lines. Judging from the look of Ancient TW, I guess you've got those bases covered :egypt:

Hi Western - I hadn't heard of the Italy mod at all, and the Reconquista style is pretty much the way I've gone - blown up original, but with some extra land added in. I've tried to be accurate with the borders, as much as you can be when you're zoomed in painting individual pixels :laugh4: I have various sources for who lived/oppressed where and when, and of course they often contradict each other ~D

I've added in another five regions overnight, and redrawn some of the background map, so that the visible sea boundaries match with the ones the game knows about... the naval side is a lot less confusing now. Oh, and I've removed the landbridge lines as well :2thumbsup:

Tonight I hope to get the new provinces into the startpos etc, and maybe see if there's any others I can get in there...

Hi Macsen

Anticipation grows :2thumbsup: I like my MTW map's design, so a blow-up basis sounds good to me. Reconquista has always been one of my faves - even more if only it had included a bit of Morocco and southern France (and maybe Genoa and Sardinia...

One odd thing about the Reconquista map - if you look real close you can see where the old sea province lines used to be. It's almost like they've been manually overpainted. You don't see this on the land though.

One thing I did with that map (because the seas didn't lead anywhere) was I added some river ports (by putting ports on the river, taking a spare sea province, closing it off, then linking the relevant land provinces to it). Doesn't look too odd if the sea province is either tucked away or at the river's mouth, and it does make sense if you think how important rivers were as key lines of movement and trade. Only really suits a large scale map though - like Reconquista.

I can say you won't see any old lines on mine - I've been a tad more devious and used clone-stamp rather than overpaint - there may be the odd area which might look like something's happened, but it's all down to local currents really :laugh4: And the new sea borders are in a different style to lead the eye away, too....

I like the idea of navigable rivers, but I guess you need a highly magnified map for it to work. It's the sort of thing that did have real strategic import (like the Vikings reaching Byzantium via the Volga and Don IIRC). There are a couple of rivers that did/could have such an impact in this scenario, so I'll see what I can do....

Glad to report that the NEW new map is working - now up to 52 provinces, and I added in the province names as well before falling asleep over my mouse last night :2thumbsup: Some names are still provisional as well as provincial, and still a bit of research required for some of the "castle" names. There were about 25 new borders to insert, about 5 to delete, and only one serious hitch when I declared one neighbouring province as 'ID_LANDREG_' instead of 'ID_LANDREG_39' - :oops:

There were a couple of rather surreal looking maritime castles where I messed up the SetCastle coordinates, but at least it proved that the coordinates still place things, even when they don't actually coincide with the actual province on the map. Oh, and one province ended up with two rival castles - first time I've seen a castle invade rather than an army :laugh4:

The new map is now up to 55 (working!) provinces, and I've added in the province names, and regional rebels. I'm going to try one or two rivers to penetrate inland a bit, and then I think the map itself is finished. Then comes the fun bit of resetting the various borders (every land border is still 'lush, flat, inland'), and adding resources, trade goods and farm incomes.

Then the units and factions need to be finished off, and starting units placed.... and it should be all ready to release :2thumbsup: Ok, maybe I'll play a few trial campaigns first ~D

Hi Macsen

55 sounds a good number. Not too few, but not so many that conquering the lot would be too unrealistic or too tedious.

Presume these provinces each relate to an original province, and if so, I wonder where Golden Horde would appear if you rolled the years forward :inquisitive:

Regarding factions, one thing I'd say is fighting always the same type of army can get a bit dull. I like Poles on Pike and Musket, for example, because - without getting too unrealistic and rampaging across Europe or the Middle East - you can be shuttling between fighting Germans in the west, Russians in the east, Turks and Golden Horde in the south, and then the Swedes poke their noses in - all different types of armies. On your Mod I like the Assyrians because you get various civilized foes to fight and also steppe barbarians. Just a thought - and all thoughts offered in ignorance of what the location and time period is (I'm guessing Middle East and I'm hoping not too early, when people were basically just hitting each other with sticks, but we shall see) :yes:

I hope this is a Alexander Vs. Persians senerio :P or a middle eastern campaign with Babylon etc.

Made a bit more progress over the weekend - decided to call it a day at 55 provinces, and will now make the appropriate cosmetic changes to the MapTex (ie remove the old region names left over!)

I've added in a new faction, a minor one, but right in the thick of things, and it's an interesting one to play. All the rebel names (ie faction names and personal names) are aligned, and names for the major factions are sorted. A few historical heroes have been added, offices tweaked, new buildings added. Province attributes are about half-done - sorted the river and climate zones, but have yet to do the terrains. Then I have to go through all of the borders one by one - I think there's about 250 different borders. On the offices, there are some interesting ones, that you will need to use very carefully... an uncharitable player would say they've been booby-trapped, but it's all in keeping with the nature of the offices in question :2thumbsup:

I still need to rename the sea regions (they're still Sea 01 to Sea 24 yet ~D). There will be at least three more factions to add (but there will be no more than 20 overall, as I will be using the "dangerous" animation folders, to get more unit types in).

@Western, roll the date forward all you like, there won't be any Golden Horde province, as I've used the Viking system of Landreg/Seareg/FN_## :2thumbsup:

As I said, there's a main focus to the campaigns, so conquest all over the map is largely pointless - it won't help you win - except in as much as it may help you recruit some different foreign troops. Also "peripheral" territories tend to be quite large, the more "involved" areas are subdivided more, so the regions are where they matter more. Troop availability is strongly biased towards culture and homelands, rather than factions, though obviously most if not quite all factions will have unique unit rosters (some of the minor factions will be similar), and there will certainly be variety of army styles.

I also have a few new units that need to be added in, some which will involve changes to the animations (new shields etc). I also hope to make the "heroes" a more significant part of this campaign.

Enough teasing, I must get back to work ~D

Four new units added last night, and a few more to follow when I get some new shields done for the animations....

:embarassed: and I have to admit I DO have a problem, I'm addicted to new provinces, I mean, I try to stop, or at least cut down, but sometime the urges just overwhelm me and I have to do another. But this time it really is the last one, but it was begging to be included, honest. Now up to 56 ~D

Some province names also changed in light of new research, but I still have one corner of the map with a problematic name etc....

Expansion pack latest:

More progress: more new units added with all new shields, changes to the campmap background image (no Mediaeval province names anymore... new ones to follow :2thumbsup: ). New factions getting new colours and flags/shields. I'm also working on the historical heroes lists as well - some of which will be anti-heroes, so beware ~D

I have nearly weaned myself off the new-province addiction, but every now and again I find myself eyeing a certain stretch of land and thinking "Hmmm, there's room for another castle in there..." :laugh4:

More news as and when, but I hope this is getting close to release.

Ok, two new factions added - minor, but significant ~D

But for realism, one of them requires an extra province (just a tiny, tiny one.....) so maybe the map will stretch up to 57, BUT THAT'S IT!

Ah, but how many sea provinces? Maybe we are too early for much naval war, but still I always thought that the old huge Eastern Med and Nile Coast didn't do justice to the complexity of trade routes and the difficulty of moving armies large distances by sea :egypt: (You can see I'm sticking to my theory that this is Middle Eastern.)

Hi Western,

Quote:

---

(You can see I'm sticking to my theory that this is Middle Eastern.)

---

Hmm, well, to quote one of my favourite fictional Machiavellian politicians "You might think that. I couldn't possibly comment." :laugh4:

But more seriously, the sea regions currently amount to 24, mostly where they count, but it is one of the things I'm looking at in my play-testing, to see how the sea regions work out and their strategic impact. I do think I need a few more (but new sea regions are a LOT less hassle than new land provinces :2thumbsup: ) I can see at least one extra that is required, and a possible candidate for either a boundary move or sub-division. Date notwithstanding, there was a significant naval aspect to this particular conflict....

I can report that 'province 57' has worked out well, it gives 'FN_18' a bit of an economic boost as well as throwing in a historical "cassus belli" into the wider scenario. However, bit-part faction 'FN_02', which needed to be split into two (thereby adding 'FN_08') has left two financially crippled one-province wonders, with very high upkeep armies and insufficient economies. So that part of the map needs a bit of economic attention, and perhaps some winding back of starting armies.

Apart from those bits above I have at least two more units to add, and will be remaking unit review panel, info_pic and battle icon images, as most of the new additions currently have placeholders (like Muwahid Foot and Early Varangian Guard etc images - very anachronistic and inappropriate, but it conveys the idea of offensive spear and kick-ass sword units for now ~D)

After a couple of days just 'testing' FN_18 ~D, I've gone back and made a couple more tweaks. The two new sea regions are now implemented, FN_02 has been changed (as historically, my original FN_02 was under the occupation of FN_01 at the time, and so didn't exist....) and the slot has gone to a faction that did exist, but was missing from my original version. History is avenged! And the new FN_02 has a more interesting unit roster than the old one :2thumbsup:

I'm also considering some campmap changes for the MAIN CAMPAIGN, so would appreciate any feedback:

* redraw borders of Arzawa (currently MTW_Nicaea), and split MTW_Trebizond into "Ilios" in the west and "Casca" in the east.
* as Arzawa should cut into MTW_Anatolia, I want to make the south of MTW_Nicaea and MTW_Anatolia into "Lycia"
* I'd like another Middle Eastern state/province, probably Moab or Ammon
* new sea region for the "Phoenician Coast" (to run from Ugarit or Cilicia down to Sinai, cutting across both Eastern med and Nile Coast, maybe include eastern Cyprus as a coast to this one)

Of course, to make these province changes will mean I have to free up some province slots, and some will have to go! I'm currently looking at Estonia (pointless sub-division for the era), and some of the steppe provinces, plus combining Brittany and Normandy into a larger "Armorica".

Any other ideas, folks?

kick ass proto-hoplites?

Hi Macsen

My main thoughts are 1.that conquering Egypt (especially from the sea) should be a more protracted business and 2. that securing Egypt's western border ought not to mean casually conquering the desert all the way to Tunisia.

It's a shame the shape of the map doesn't allow Upper Egypt, but we have got enough to show Lower and Middle Egypt. :egypt: I'd also split Libya and show the eastern portion as either Tehenu (Land of the Olives) or Cyrenaica.

If you're up for it, you could reshape Spain a bit to emphasise difference between coastal and inland provinces (eg I'd turn Navarre into a Basque province, scrap Leon and Castile and replace with a north coast (Asturias?) and inland province

In terms of what to lose, Finland could merge with Novg without losing much at all. Switzerland could be merged with a neighbour. Pomerania and Brand might merge, or chop Silesia between Brand and Poland. I don't think any of these provinces have real meaning even in your later period.

Well, you did ask... :beam:

I'm just posting to say that I can't DL this mod, which kinda sucks.

Splitting Palestine into Israel and Judah would be nice, as that way you could have the kingdoms of Judah and Israel instead of just have the united Kingdom of Israel.

Also, maybe splitting Greece into two separate parts would be more realistic.

You could merge Granada and Cordoba, and perhaps merge Prussia and Pommerania.

Morning all, thanks for the input!

@Xehh - I don't know what the problem is, the bandwidth limit is fine (nothing downloading right now, so 100% capacity available). MyDataBus have temporarily suspended uploads, so there may be some technical issues currently, but that's only speculation as they don't say why uploads are suspended, and no mention of any interruption to downloads.

UPDATES:

Okay, here's the map changes I've done so far, corrections to the borders of Arzawa, Ilios and Lycia, plus the "Phoenician Coast" sea region:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...s/00000057.jpg

I will need to re-tweak some of the unit_prod entries to correct some homelands (Ilios, for instance, still thinks it's "Estonia"....)

Plus a historical hero, I'm not sure if I included him in the release or not, but he's in my beta copy ~D Best known as the guy who literally "wrote the book" of Hittite chariotry (I've fixed it so he now turns up as a chariot unit as well :2thumbsup: ... )

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

]https://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l...s/00000058.jpg

I like the idea of a bit more definition around Egypt, and also splitting Greece into two, maybe even three, parts, maybe tweaking southern Illyria in the process. However, I think I'll stick with Palestine/Canaan in one piece, as we start during the Unified Kingdom period, and this did grow for a while afterwards (at least under Solomon).

I'm also tempted to use up another sea region slot (only two spare now) and divide the Black Sea into north and south as well. Those coastlines always struck me as a bit indefensible, all it takes is one boat and you're away....


So, current list of candidates for annihilation: Finland (merge Novgorod), Normandy (merge Brittany), Champagne (merge IdF or Lorraine), Switzerland (merge Tyrolia - general "Alpine" region), and possibly Carpathia/Wallachia could be merged into a general "Carpathian" region, too.

This would free up five slots, and yes, I agree Spain could be rejigged from the mediaeval borders, though not necessarily altering numbers of provinces.

Current list of desirable additions: "Tehenu" (good to have a name for it :2thumbsup: ), Egypt into 2 parts, Ammon or Moab, 1 or 2 subdivisions of Greece. Also I don't like the size of "Naples" either, so possibly both Greece and Naples could be split into two. And that would use up the five slots created above.


And I'm also tempted to "re-unify" Khazar to bring it back to the "Pontic Steppe", or something...

Oh, and I forgot to add: ANCIENT will load straight on to MTW:VI - it doesn't actually need XL after all (so much changed during development, I lost track of what had been replaced ~D)

Man, I wish I could get this, it is so cool.