Just seen a review of Bioshock in Micro Mart a UK weekly computer mag it scored a zero with the quote "The best game you will ever see get a zero" solely on the basis of the copy protection system
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Just seen a review of Bioshock in Micro Mart a UK weekly computer mag it scored a zero with the quote "The best game you will ever see get a zero" solely on the basis of the copy protection system
A few days late but as a physicist I just can't resist to comment on magnetic fields :laugh4:
If you want to wipe your HDD, even dismantling it and denting or whatever seriously won't do the trick. Most of the data will still be available.
Even if you overwrite it with pseudo-random series of data for a few times, a lot of traces can still be found. This has to do with the fact that the magnetization used to store your data is not completely gone.
There is a way to erase your data (I think), which is completely demagnetizing the drive. To do this you apply a fairly strong slowly alternating field and then gradually weaken it. After some minutes (or hours depending on how paranoid you are) you'll have very few traces of magnetization left and those will be pretty random because of the frequent change in the direction of magnetization of the "elemental" magnets.
The key point is doing it slowly because you're walking along a curve called "hysteresis loop" and you want to give the magnetic moments enough time to change direction before lowering the field strength.
Would be quicker to chuck it into an incinerator and melt the damn thing, wouldn't it? :grin2:Quote:
Originally Posted by alpaca
Yep. I used to use the hammer method on HD's when retiring old computers, but now I use heat, since (as I understand it), it's a more reliable method if you really want to destroy the data (and the drive). Don't do it in a kitchen oven though, unless you like breathing fumes from plastic. I just chuck the drive in our outdoor patio grill after an evening's barbecue, and close the lid. I don't know exactly what the threshold temperature is for a total wipe, but looking at what comes out of the grill the next morning, I'm pretty sure nobody will ever recover anything from that charred brick.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapi
And that's one way to get rid of SecureRom. :beam:
Considering how quickly Securom was hacked, there are obviously a fair number of folks with detailed working knowledge of it and its flaws. All it takes for one of those folks to have malevolent intent and you've given them a free backdoor into your computer, your passwords, banking information etc. It may not have been reported yet, but Securom and Sony are hated nearly as much as Microsoft, which means as far as I'm concerned it's inevitable.
:oops:
Wow, I'm glad I swung by here today. I would have been completely unaware of SecuRom being included in the expansion. Looks like I won't be buying it now.
Between this and BioShock, SecuRom has saved me a good bit of money.
I am director of a library and we legally reformat materials all the time so I have a good understanding of international copyright law.
The issue as I see it is that most of the security programs used by game companies appear to me to violate the "fair use" of the copyright law. The game disk are exactly like a music CD. I have the legal right to copy a music CD to my MP3 for my own use. Indeed, many academic libraries have copied thousands, maybe hundreds of thousand old vinyl records onto a CD or MP3 format.
I have the right to copy a game that I own to make a play disk and then to archive the original provided that I adhere to the single user clause (i.e. I can't play the game on one disk while my daughter plays on the other using her computer) However, how does it hurt Sega if I put the game on a virtual drive so that I can play it without a CD in the drive? It doesn't and I ought to be able to do it. The same hold true with Microsoft (Please God, forgive me for mentioning them by name) placing install limits on XP and Vista.
I get quite frustrated with companies that assume that I am a criminal. Especially when they deny me the rights that I have under law because some people lack ethics. I thought in the US at least, though not where I live, that there was a presumption of innocence guaranteed by law. While companies are not the government (unless you live in China), I think that concept might still apply. I have in my more angry moments wondered if a class action lawsuit could not be filed by users and gamers against the companies because of this issue.
That said the only security system I've had lots of trouble with was Star Force. Other than that Caesar VI has a security system that you apparently must be logged into the Internet for it to check your disk for authenticity. At least the game wouldn't load on my computer without being online. No thank you. I'll never buy a game from that company again. Indeed, I took the game off my computer
Please note: I didn't see Tin Cow's post until after I wrote this.
Incidentally, another fairly easy way to prevent the theft of materials from a hard drive on a discarded computer is to have two hard drives (I have four OS-Drive/Game drive/My professional Stuff/ Wife's professional Stuff) Keep only your operating system and relatively unimportant stuff on one and any financial and personal materials on the other. When you get a new computer then simply transfer the drive.
I just read ( sorry if this has been said b4) that patch 1.3 replaces the previous vanilla MTW II security to securerom?? is that so cos Im DLing 1.3 and Im not buying kingdoms cos of securerom so if it is the case I wont be using patch 1.3. BAD SEGA
I bought Kingdoms and THEN discovered this thread. :wall:Quote:
Originally Posted by gardibolt
Impossible to return to the shop. Now my sealed Kingdom DVD is taking dust on a shelf. Selling it means more trouble than gain.
I'm very angry with SEGA, Sony and SecuRom, because there is no trace of such protection on the DVD box (btw - and that is worse - Securom is on patch 1.3 too).
I will take more attention *before* buying next CA games.
From what I have heard, Securom is not on patch 1.3. If it was, I would be quite the unhappy camper...
Not true. The 1.3 compatability patch for Vanilla installs securom files and keys on one's system, I had to do the dance and force their removal using some special tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
C'mon CA, seriously.
Are you sure? I play vanilla with a mini-image, wouldn't that be detected?Quote:
Originally Posted by Whacker
It depends, not always. Sorry mate, can't elaborate more than that in the public forums due to Org rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphic
Being nosey....Why is it impossible to return it to the shop?Quote:
Originally Posted by pdp
I only ask because of course returns are the only way this issue is going to get attention from SEGA. If everyone still buys and keeps the game then SEGA won't give a monkey's fart whether we play it or not.
because of the shop policy in my country allow return only for defects. Technically, the game works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Didz
Thats a bit poor, is there nothing about misrepresentation. Course you could always lie and say it doesn't work, not that I would advocate such a devious strategy.:dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by pdp
BTW: Has anyone tried mentioning SecRom in a product review on Play.com or Amazon. The reviews never seem to make it onto the screen if you do.
I scanned my medieval2.exe (1.3) with ProtectionID (which is the tool of choice when wanting to determine the exact version and copyprotection on a file) and it shows as SafeDisc 4.6 still.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whacker
But then, that doesn't mean it won't install SecuROM files (i.e. just to put SecuROM there but not itself using it, or not pretending to)
I didn't say it switched copy protection mechanisms, I said it installed the Securom undeleteable files and keys. Not sure if the service itself was installed, but I haven't found any of the old Securom system files that I know of. Irregardless it's both pointless, stupid, and irresponsible to include those in the patch.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
The latter of my suspicions then.
Quite an interesting way CA/SEGA are handling this. Installing SecuROM without it actually being used (or at least not to my knowledge) in medieval2.exe
So they are pawns of Sony now?
I have tried once again to post a review on the Play.com site warning potential purchasers of Kingdoms that the game includes a hidden security protection programme. But once again the review has been blocked by Play.
It seems that Play don't want their customers to be forewarned about the implications of installing this game on their PC.
So it seems no news on the SecuRom front? I figured that I would just play regular M2TW and ignore Kingdoms until that was resolved, but I find myself discouraged. I feel let down by CA on this, and have no desire to play even the old game. So I think I'm done with CA products. :no:
Oh my! This discussion is still going on?!:no:
Well, it's nice to keep the thread on the first page as an FYI for the newcomers. This is important information imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill
Well it doesn't look as though the retailers are too keen on informing their customers whats on the disk.
Ok, So I have been keeping a small eye on this issue since about just after it began and I've had a read on Wikipedia about Securom. :juggle2:
I'm one of those people who doesnt really know a lot about computers - just enough to get around, and I am very guilty of just putting the disc into the disc drive and off I go. SO what I am going to ask may sound silly.
Has anybody had any actual issues with Securom arise since installing the Kingdoms product? (I don;t just mean what every one has been talking about on this thread, I mean has anyone computers' stopped working or stuff like that?)
Also does Securom block burning of other products on to discs from your computer? My wife burns a lot of music (legally of course) onto CD's from her itunes (ipod program) and if Securom got in the way of that, my life wouldnt be worth living!
Again sorry about sounding a little :dizzy2:
Galain_Ironhide, I don't think you'll find evidence of that kind of damage, and it shouldn't interfere with burning CD's. It's more about the potential for future problems -- possible backdoors for hackers, hassles with being flagged by future anti-virus or anti-malware programs you may install, and so on -- because you won't be able to remove the SecureRom files, ever, short of formatting the disk and reinstalling Windows.
That's what many of us are uncomfortable with, and it's why I haven't bought Kingdoms yet. I'm just not that hot for the expansion, with other games out there to play (and still having fun with M2TW), that I want to risk this level of intrusion on my computer. If Sega/CA released a clean uninstall version of Kingdoms (or a separate utility), I'd buy Kingdoms in a heartbeat. So far, they've been totally silent about this. So they don't get my money. And they won't get it for Empire either, if they follow this same path.
Anyway, you'll have to decide what your own comfort level is for this sort of intrusion, balanced against how much you want to play Kingdoms.
Thanks Zenicetus, you have pretty much answered what I wanted to know.
THe whole part about never being able to remove SecuRom from my computer alarms me. So I think Kingdoms might get a big miss from me.
:2thumbsup:
Ermm.. It would seem we might need to clarify a few things here.
Incorrect. Securom is well known to interfere with other types of copy protection, namely the Safedisc v2, 3, and 4 flavors. If you have older games that use these, there is a significant possibility that the owner will run into problems attempting to install and play the game. I have experienced this directly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenicetus
Second, while Securom does not natively force PIO mode on one's system's optical drives, one will find with some research that quite often that dev/publisher Help/FAQ sections for people who are running into trouble reading the Securom-infested media will be advised to manually force PIO mode. Again this is not always going to be an issue for everyone, but if it does become one, be warned that extended use of an optical drive in PIO mode can cause excessive wear and damage as the drives are not designed to operate in this manner, this is part of the problem that Starforce creates. I should also mention that I personally have lost an optical drive to Starforce, as have more than a few others at the Org.
I can't respond to the comment about 'backdoors' in terms of Securom because I haven't researched it, but given Sony's track record, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. However, it's not too excessively hard to remove the registry keys and files that Securom leaves on the system. Google will turn up a few FAQs on how to do so, and I think there's one posted in this thread also. It does take a reasonable amount of technical knowhow and is not for the faint of heart, so be forewarned. Of course, ideally one wouldn't have to remove the Securom to begin with since hopefully one wouldn't infest their system with it. :sweatdrop:Quote:
It's more about the potential for future problems -- possible backdoors for hackers, hassles with being flagged by future anti-virus or anti-malware programs you may install, and so on -- because you won't be able to remove the SecureRom files, ever, short of formatting the disk and reinstalling Windows.
Erm, the core of the message here is true. The best thing for anyone to do is educate themselves on the issues at hand, and it often boils down to a calcuated risk. Do you really want the game that bad? Is it worth it? For many of us, the answer is no. If it is, are you willing to run the risk of the problems it stands a not-insigificant chance of causing for you? Many of us here would like to persuade others to boycott this based on the circumstances (myself included), but it boils down to an individual decision. If you're going to go about it, the least we can request and push for is that people make it an informed decision.Quote:
Anyway, you'll have to decide what your own comfort level is for this sort of intrusion, balanced against how much you want to play Kingdoms.
*bump*
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We're all outraged but wouldn't we please help keep the thread open? CA representatives declared that they do read the threads and evaluate the complaints. Similar threads have been locked before merely for the mention of the warez alternative so to speak.
:bow:
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