The Curia

"Unless there has been a vote and my eyes and ears have been blocked by the gods in the meanwhile, Lvcvllvs, the senate has not granted anything yet.
And unless you do not want to adhere to the law, dear Lvcvllvs, Caivs Avrelivs has first to formally request his triump to the senate. So, what answer but what I have given him can he take to his master, the answer that he must file a request?
I know for whom you speak, Lvcvllvs, and I also know for whom HE speaks. So this bickering comes to me not as a suprise. Durex Lex, sed lex Quirites."

The last was said to the entire hall.

I speak for myself, as you do. Only because I have a friendship with one man does not give you the right to bring this forth at EVERY occasion

"I do not condemn yours or any friendschip - although I think it's poor show of taste on your behalf - Lvcvllvs. I only mentioned that it did not suprise me you insist on this matter as you are a friend of the subject.
Now you say I speak for myself, minutes ago I was speaking for the senate, make up your mind. Or have you been guzzling with Caivs?

Fact remains senators, that my words to the messenger from Caivs Avrelivs are the only message we could have send: if he wants a triumph, let him issue a formal request to the House. Then we will discuss and vote for it."

Now this argumentation is stupid. Most obviously I referred to your opinion concering for whom I speak, when I said you spoke for yourself. But since you seem to argue like a child, this conversation now ends.

Norbanus made a guzzling sound to his fellow tribunes, but didn't bother to refute Lucullus.

Illyria is nothing more then a few fishing villages filled with savages and mines. Profitable as it might be, almost the whole roman army was involved in its subjugation. Hardly worthy of a triumph.

And this analysis is based on what exactly?

Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio rose.

First of all, I want to point out that Publius Norbanus was basically right, though I wish he had expressed himself in words more ... worthy of a senator. We can't grant a triumphus unless we receive a formal request.

I do however want to point out that killing Pyrrhus is well worth a triumphus in itself.


Remember that I have been govenour of Tarentum for the last few years and that it were the Tarentes who summoned Pyrrhus to sap our rightful reign over the Italian peninsula.
It's been more than ten years since we drove him out of Italy, but even now there are people in Kalbria who hope for him to return and "liberate" (Cornelius spit out the word as if it was something utterly disgusting) them.

We need to hold a triumphus even if it were only to show those insurgents that there's no one who can defy roman power and live.

Norbanus rose immediately

"Again, I did not speak AGAINST holding a triumphus. I only reminded my fellow senators that:
1) a request must be filed
2) a vote must be held

My personal opinion concerning the issue does not matter, I will save it for the debate when it is put forth in this house officially."

Let me quote you.

"Therefore, I ask you again: what spoils are there to show?" "What have we conquered except some fishermen villages?" "Triumphus' are not to be given lightely!"

Yes, of course you did, my devious friend. That is exactly what you did. Of course it is your right to speak against it. But then adhere to it.

I think Norbanus has stated the point quite cleanly, Cotta can wait until the council session to have his glory, as much as I hate to admit it he deserves some reward for killing the republics enemy. Even if that reward is just to reinforce good behavior he smiles in amusement at the thought like a dog perhaps.

"Again Lvcvllvs my friend, I said nothing about denying a triumph. I merely reminded the Senate that for a triumphus to be granted, we must atleast consider wether we have the crowd anything to show. I did not advocate to deny a triumphus, as I also do not advocate for the granting of one.

Let us await the formal request from the Quaestor, and see what the house has to say."

The aged Senator Corlucius frowned at Sulla, his wrinkled face cracking into a thousand lines.

Be careful, Sextvs Cornelivs Svlla. Those kind of comments are not welcome here.

After he had spoken and Sulla had sat back down, a messenger walked into the hall, carrying a scroll. With a nod of approval, he read it out.

"From Quaestor Caivs Avrelivs Cotta, addressed to the honourable members of the Senate and People of Roma, welcome.

I formally request a triumphial procession through Roma following my recent victories in Illyria and Epirus, and the destruction of Roma's hated enemy, Pyrrhus, to be voted upon in the next congressional session. I ask this now that it may not count against my number of edicts in the congressional session, and to allow for the necessary preperations. I await your reply eagerly, Senators."

"Publius Norbanus, you are mistaken," came the raspy voice of Quintus Fulvius Veratius, "to believe that a Triumphus Militaris is primarily to show off wealth. Our ancient traditions hold that the Triumphus is a civil ceremony and religious rite held to publicly honor the military commander of a notably successful foreign war or campaign and to display the glories of Roman victory. Quaestor Caius Aurelius Cotta has won a number of significant victories over our enemies during his career and has also, now, brought down the scourge of the east who so plauged us with constant, bitter warfare."

Turning his frail frame towards Lucius Cornelius Scipio, Aedile of Tarentum, he continued

"Your cool head has softened the stinging words of Publius Norbanus, thank you for your calm insight. I also agree that Quaestor Caius Aurelius deserves a full triumphus for his combined service to the Res Publica, which of course, must be debated and voted on during the next Congressional session."

With that, he shuffled back to his seat and sat down, his thin body disappearing into the mass of folds of his toga.

Corlucius smiled at his old friend Quintus Fulvius. They were some of the last of the old generation of the Senate; their fellows having either passed on or retired. Now more and more younger men drifted into the Senate, all looking for blood, wherever they believed they could find it. He was glad that outburst had occured between Caivs the Fat and that barbarian Balbatus. He had never liked either of them, old patricians though both of them were, and he was glad the business between them had resorted in their mutual bans from the Senate. Finally, some piece. Time for the older men to set an example to the younger new boys. There were plenty of wars outside; there was little need to bring them inside as well. This was a hall of words and debate, not fists and curses. Perhaps now Quintus Fulvius and he could steer these young bloodhounds away from destructive measures, and towards a much more civilised venture...

Turning to Quintus Fulvius Veratius, Lucullus nodded and spoke: "True words, Quintus Fulvius."

Then he addressed Publius Norbanus: "Publius Norbanus, if that's the case, I agree with you. Let's decide upon the formal request for a Triumphus as soon as the next senatorial session has ended. In my opinion Quaestor Caius Aurelius deserves his Triumphus. Not only is he the conqueror of Illyria, he also released us from a powerful enemy. As long as Pyrrhus had lived, our people had not been save from another Epeirote invasion...."

"However", he continued to the Messenger, "we still wait for the formal request for a Triumphus. No doubt that Caius Aurelius will be granted his ceremony, but nonetheless it is a great honour, given by the Senate only to those who bother to set foot in the Curia and claim their right themselves, under the eyes of the dignified patres conscripti." After a rhetorical pause, Lucullus continued: We await him to the next senatorial session and will listen to his application. And may he bring his friends with him, whose comments on this matter also shall be heard."

Norbanus rose once more

"If every general wishing a triumph, would have to present his petition in person, we would have no one leading the legions anymore, Patres. Caivs Avrelivs has sent us an official dispatch requesting a Triump. We should discuss this and make a vote on it, this is not worth dragging out."


(OOC: things like this, should be votable outside congres. Tribunes of the plebs could come in handy here under my new rules. I agree votes outside of congress should be a minimum, but there are so much small matters like this which should be arranged outside congressional sessions. Otherwise we'll have too much things to vote on in the same session, losing the overview. Also, if you earn a triumph right after a congressional session, you have to wait another 12 turns, which might make no difference OR make a world of difference both ingame and inforum.)

No offence, but that sounds as if our triumphus' go like hot cakes. I think it's appropriate to claim it personally.

(OOC: I agree that we vote on such matters outside a session)

"Think practical for a moment. If every general has come to Rome to request his triumph, we would have no generals in the field. Therefore it is practical to let them request it beforehand. That way, it can be discussed in the senate and - if the triumph is granted - arrangements can be made in time."

As you may think fit. Then what say you to this matter? Triumphus, yes or no and why?

"I am but a mere Tribune of the Plebs, by custom the word should go to more senior senators first."

Don't be modest, some of the elder senatores already gave their opinion, and besides: are you talking about the same senior senatores, a certain "mere Tribune of the Plebs" intended to throw from the Tarpeian rock? Your opinion is most welcome, you should share it with us. But I don't want to force you. If you first want to hear other's opinions to form your own conform to them, that's ok.

Quintus Fulvius the Elder stood slowly, his toga hugged his bony shoulders tightly, but completely hid any figure of the frail man underneath, making him appear more a talking bust than anything else; his ashen skin and snow white hair only added to the illusion. In his thin voice he said,

"It has not been done this way before, to vote out of session for such things. However, the young Tribunus Pleibeus makes valid points. It is my opinion that a General make a formal request to the Senate for a Triumphus in writing, and not through messenger - that we know it is he himself who boldly seeks to claim what is his. However, in this case, I would be willing to make an exception, as I am also willing to take a vote on such matters outside of general session. The Res Publica has changed much through the years since I was a young man first entering these hallowed halls. It is by changing that we keep ourselves and our defenses relevant and avoid the stagnation that would render us victims to all who would plunder our culture and our coffers. I vote 'yay' that we hold a special voting session to debate the Quaestor's Triumphus. When the normal session convenes, we should ammend our charter to allow for such within the confines of the law."

The elder statesman sits down, nearly floating like a leaf in the autumn breeze, where his toga once again enveloped all but his uppermost portions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _Bean_

[I]

After he had spoken and Sulla had sat back down, a messenger walked into the hall, carrying a scroll. With a nod of approval, he read it out.

"From Quaestor Caivs Avrelivs Cotta, addressed to the honourable members of the Senate and People of Roma, welcome.

I formally request a triumphial procession through Roma following my recent victories in Illyria and Epirus, and the destruction of Roma's hated enemy, Pyrrhus, to be voted upon in the next congressional session. I ask this now that it may not count against my number of edicts in the congressional session, and to allow for the necessary preperations. I await your reply eagerly, Senators."

---

Do you perhaps mean this letter, old friend? Corlucius asked Quintus Fulvius.

I believe messengers are sometimes required to carry these letters, and read them out for us all to hear at once. He smiled kindly at his companion, meaning no malice in his joking sarcasm.

Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio rose, ignoring Corlucius' interjection.

It wasn't due to fickleness but due to the ideals and laws passed down from our forefathers that we were able to make the Res Publica into what it is now, you should know this best, Quintus Fluvius. It is not change but preservation that keeps us from becoming "irrelevant".

L. C. Scipo made a short break before he continued:

Anyway, I do not want to start a discussion on principles now.

I agree with the triumphus being requested by an official messenger and with the voting outside of the season as well - there's a difference between preservation of the law and foolishness.

I agree with Quintus Fulvius, since I presume he meant "change" in the sense of having the courage to improve. That's always been our strong point

I do not believe it would be correct politically or indeed practically if the victorious General needs to return to Roma in order to request to return to Roma in triumph. Corlucius smiled.

This random smiling has got to stop, if anything we should have a emergency session just for that.

"Indeed you are right, Decimus Cornelius. One would think it is all fun and games to be a senator. Quite frankly, I find most of it insincere and disturbing, as if they had suffered a blow to the head and were now rendered a drooling fool."

Several gasps of surprise and wonder echoed throughout the chamber as everyone began to realize the two executive officers of the Legio III Campania were in the chamber. Quintus Valerius stood and hurried down to greet his benefactor, briefing him on the goings on while he had been fighting in Illyria Hellenike. Tiberius Claudius Marcellus nodded at what he was hearing; but stopped his aide when he heard what had transpired between Caius the Fat and Balbatus. He was visibly saddened to hear the final outcome of his friend's unwavering loyalty. A moment later, a firm sense of resolution set itself upon Claudius' face. He asked his aide to place any pressing documents on his desk and thanked him for his vigilant work.

"Men of Roma, the Legio III Campania has reached our homeland and is undergoing final refitting and supply acquisition before we continue southward towards Rhegion. We shall deal with these rebellious farmers who have so dastardly laid low Consul, Dux Publius Atilius Regulus. Fear not, the brigands will all be executed and their bodies left to rot in the fields as a warning to all who would seek to emulate them.

"At this time, I wish to congratulate Quaestor Caius Aurelius Cotta for his hard work and numerous victories. His slaying of Pyrrhus Anax is a great boon for the Res Publica and a testament to his abilities as a commander. I will agree to vote in favour of the Triumphus he has requested. I must, however make note, publicly, that for all he has accomplished, the Quaestor seems to be taking reckless chances with the men of his command. Not only has he stretched out his legion across the province of Illyria Hellenike; but he infliltrated enemy home territory with inappropriately few numbers, and then earlier this season fought another battle when outnumbered and, though victorious, suffered fifty percent casualties.

"As I have argued many times regarding the character of this man, Caius Aurelius Cotta, I must say again that he is seeking power, fame, and glory for himself and is stacking the bodies of fallen Roman soldiers under his command as a ladder to reach great heights! He is needlessly reckless, and I shall ask the senate to consider limiting the merit of defeating small numbers of the enemy when considering promotions, etc."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(OOC: No battle points for defeating 1-2 units even if you obtain a "Clear/Heroic Victory". Regardless of if you fight such a force with a whole legion or equal numbers, it is hardly worth mentioning, as it is an insignificant force and would hardly prevent the enemy from their schemes.)

Tiberius Claudius took his usual seat and begins looking over some documents that had been handed to him, eagerly awaiting the supporters of the Quaestor to jump into the fray.

Exomnivs spoke
Tiberivs Clavdivs Marcellvs, you are indeed correct. While the Quaster does deserve his Trivmphvs, he should not be encouraged in his reckless behavior. With Phyrrhvs slain and the armies of Epirvs defeated, the time has come to force a truce upon our foes. We can enact a hefty tribute from the Epirotes. This, along with the mighty industry that Illyria has to offer, can be used to bolster our efforts in fighting the Carthaginians.
Exomnivs cleared his throat before continuing
I put this charge before the Senators now: If anyone should oppose peace with the Epirotes, he will have shown his true colors as an oportunistic general, prolonging this war for his own gain at the Republic's expense!

Tiberius Claudius stands and applauds deliberately and slowly, raising his voice to reach the back rows of the audience he is addressing,

"Senator Exominus is bold in his declaration, yet he couldn't have stated the situation any more concisely."

Turning to face the legislator he said,

"You are most wise to not only realize this truth about the Quaestor; but to have the courage, the noblest of Roman virtues, to acknowledge it publicly. Legatus Sextus Cornelius Scapula is a lucky man to have such a friend in you. It would be an honor to discuss matters of the law with you at the Villa Claudia with other men of like mind. My aide Quintus Valerius will deliver the invitation to your residence."

Spinning around to once again address the body of learned men, Claudius returned to the topic at hand,

"Peace with the Epirotes is feasible at this time. As part of the terms I suggest that we envelop the province of Epeiros and install a client ruler in Ambrakia who will help Quaestor Caius Aurelius govern more effectively since he will be a local man, with a disposition that is favourable to our plans for the region. With any remaining Epirote provinces serving as a buffer between the Res Publica and the Makedonians and Koinon Hellenon, as well as the barbarous Getai, we will in turn be able to throw the full might of our Legios against the Poeni."

Corlucius stands wearily, his old body creaking and groaning.

Courage? Indeed, it is couragous to talk about the Quaestor in such ways when he is not here to defend himself.

I agree with tiberius, the Epirotes are beaten there is no reason to continue a fight that is already done with.


However I would like to say that perhaps Caius Aurelius should be spending less time running around Illyria and greece picking fights with Epirotes, and more time actualy ruling his province! hmmm, perhaps we shouldnt install a client ruler, make Caius do all the work and hopefully keep him out of our hair!

"I second that suggestion. Client rulers are not to be trusted. Caius Aurelius conquered us a new province, let him worry about governing it aswel. With a soon to be ceasefire with Epeirus, he'll have to settle down to govern.
Let us hope that the discussions in the Senate settle down aswel after that."

Yes. Why give Epeiros back to an Epeirote client king and Illyria to an Illyrian, when we have our own able men.

Decimvs Cornelivs scapvla entered the chamber and sat listeningl. after a while he rose...

Senatores, I served in the past as a tribune protecting Italia from Brigands and other threats. I now am preparing to do so again. I am ready to become a Tribune once more and defend Rome from her Enemies.

Good luck, tribune

(continues in OOC thread)

to TCM below: your posts are always flawless :)

OOC: Mini, thank you for the compliment.

Re: use of Roman names - you are absolutely correct, though I would ammend that when writing of yourself in the third person, it is acceptable to use your Cognomen (the last name: Tiberius Claudius Marcellus) as that was often used between close friends and relatives. Even husbands and wives usually referred to themselves and each other with the Nomen or Cognomen instead of their Praenomen.

Re: your RP suggestions - Why "bold" what your character says? The visual difference between speech and italicized thoughts/actions is clear enough. Your suggestions to use parentheses are also contrary to the rules governing the traditional use of American English. It is simply proper enough to use quotations ( " ") for speech and italics (like this) for actions and thoughts. 13 years of schooling plus college has ingrained this process into my mind too well.

A messenger arrives from Illyria.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: Sorry, I couldn't any other Senator say this, so I'm afraid it does appear as though Cotta has extremely fast messengers. Forgive me. I need a proper representative again...

Sirs, a message from Caivs Avrelivs Cotta:

Quote:

---

I have received word of the reaction to my patrols in Epirite land. My efforts and those of the few men I took with me were entirely legal and well intentioned, and indeed were practical and victorious. A small raid, and the enemy of Roma is dead.

However, Epirus is not finished, not one bit. Ambrakia fills more and more with Royal troops and elite soldiers, while large Epirite forces still reside in Makedonia and Byzantion. However, I feel we can deliver a killer blow with the capture of the Epirite homeland, and installing border forts at the mountain passes to resist any counter attacks from Makedonia. The Second is well equiped and rested. The original time as governer of Illyira Hellenike is near conclusion. Allow me to deal this blow our hated enemy, and install me as governer of Epirus in Roma's stead. I will then stay in Epirus; no more raids led by me into enemy territory. The Legio II can be used to protect the provinces borders and the mountain passes. It is my responsibility as conquerer of these new provinces to then govern them as a man of Roma.

The province of Illyria Hellenike can be added to the governership of Epirus and given to an aide, or kept seperate. It would however be more economical to join them.

I leave this open to discussion. Please allow me to know of your joint answer soon, Senators.

---

But what if this escalates things further? An incursion further into Greek lands may upset the Makedonians and the Koinen Hellenon, opening up an entirely new front when we should be focused on the true threat, from the Poeni. Send your army to the border if you must, but only to back up our words. It it the diplomats who must travel to the Epirite heartland.

Exomnius then turns to Tiberivs Claudivs Marcellvs Tiberivs Clavdivs, your praise is much appreciated. Sextvs Cornelivs Scapvla and I look forward to working with you in the future!

Horatius Galcratus Corlucius stands, frowning.

I'm afraid I don't see the reasoning in this. Makedonia lost it's homeland to the Epirites some years ago, and they have been bitter enemies ever since. The Koinon Hellon are in turmoil; reports suggest Athens could fall any moment. They have nothing save defeat of the Aegeades (sp) on their minds.

We also have a fully capable legion fighting the Poeni in Southern Gaul, and another fit to tackle them in Sicily. That does not include our forth, a Consular Legion, ready and able to respond to any new threat. Why would we need to take the Legio II away from Greece to fight the Poeni, when we have three capable legions already?

Also, Caivs Avrelivs tells us he has already defeated the Epirites on their home ground. Yet the Makedonians and the southern Greeks have shown no wanting to commit troops to fight Roma. I am sorry, but I do not see your points as valid.

A man coughs and steps forward, showing himself to be the same messenger who had delivered the news about the Consul of Finance's fortunes.

"Pardon me, Horatius Galcratus, do I understand you correctly if I take it from your speech that a commander has been appointed to take charge of the Consular Legion while Consul Pvblivs Atilivs recovers? As I recall, there were talk about Cnaevs Cornelivs, but unless I've got it all wrong, no one was actually appointed. If such is the case, then the Consular Legion is, unfortunately, not as ready for action as you say it is."

Norbanus, Tribunus Plebis rose to take the word.

"My geographical knowlegde is not so good, I freely admit. So I want to ask the following: If we take Ambrakia, do we have any borders to the makedonians or the Konion Hellion?

I would like to suggest that we seek out alliances with these 2 peoples. Even if we take Ambrakia and start sharing a border, with alliances we can safeguard the area from future war.
Although I am bend on peace, I can see the need to conquer Ambrakia to eradicate whatever chance Epeiros may have to strike us again in the future. Too much have Roman citizens suffer at the terrors of Phyrros.

We should vote upon Caius Aurelius taking Ambrakia as the last settlement in Epeiros, thus creating the province pan-illyria. Meanwhile we should procure treaties of friendship and alliance with Makedon and KH"

But why must you fight a war that is already over? Look at the maps! Conquoring Epiros will require stretch our resources thinner, and already the Empire of Seleukios lies waiting on the other side of the Hellespont. Would you train an entire new legion just to stand there at the Hellespont when the Epirotes could stand there for us? Old quarrels die with old generals, and with Phyrrvs gone the new leaders may be eager to end the fighting. The tribute we can demand, and the buffer we can receive, will strenghthen the Republic greatly.

Additionaly, if we do keep fighting the Epirotes, what is to stop the Cartheginians from allying with them? Then we truly will have a three-front war.

Horatius Galcratus Corlucius stood again, looking first at the man who addressed him.

"Forgive me, Senator. My mind wonders these days, I was unaware a replacement had not been decided upon. Thank you for correcting me."

Turning to Exomnius...

"I am afraid I do not see your reasoning at all. Your imagination seems wild. A war that is over? Hardly. The Epirites hold vast areas of land, their armies are numerous and well supplied, and looking for revenge for their fallen king.

Our resources are hardly spread thin, and we are in little danger from facing an army from the Arche Selukeia; that I can assure you, they have no current interest in invading Greece. They have more than enough problems currently.

We are hardly talking about conquering all lands under and allied to Epirus, merely relinquishing the Epirite homeland from their control. Doing so would drestroy their standing with their allies and the world, and could easily turn not just the Epirite enemies towards joining us, but also to Epirite allies and subjigations, who may see this as a chance to turn upon their overlords.

I agree with the young Tribune of the Plebs. We should ally ourselves with one of the other Greek powers. I would strongly vote for an alliance with the sons of Alexander, the former Makedonians. They are strong enemies with the Epirites; far more likely to support us. Also, we have the power to work together; the Epirites hold Makedonia. If we helped the Makedonians reclaim their homeland, we would gain a strong and valuable ally, as well as a buffer between us and the further east. These people are also about to capture the city of Athens, one of the centres of Koinon Hellon power. We might be supporting a lost cause otherwise.

And further for the young Tribune of the Plebs, perhaps a Pan-Illyrian province is too much, too large to control and defend effictively, though splitting into two is not. The former kingdoms of Segestica and Dalminion can be defended mostly along one river, while the two lower provinces of Illyria Hellenike and Epirus are small and compact enough to be defended by a provincial legion.

I leave the discussion open, gentlemen, though please take all this into account before an answer is prepared."

I have to agree with Horatius Galcratus, your grasp of geography seems.... well a bit off, the hellespont lies quite far to the east, through many more Epirus territory than just Epeirus, taking it would hardly stretch us too thin, however it would deny the Epirites their only port on the adriatic, a crushing blow and one that would deny any chance of a naval invasion of Italy.

on a Pan-Illyrian province I have to agree again with Horatius Galcratus, all of Illyria is to much for one man to defend under his breath sextus adds and to much power for one man

A freeman walks in with a letter marked, Office of the Campus Martius...

"Good senators, it is to be announced that Quaestor Caivs Cotta, is to be discharged of the rank of Quaestor and is to promoted and addressed as Praetor. That is all. Congratulations are in order."

A magistrate rises...

"In accordance with the Congressional Council of 260's Edict 5.1, the two year term of provincial governing in which Quaestor Caivs Cotta was granted has been served and it is now terminated."

Fellow Senators, it is true that I am new to this service. I may be able to outsmart you, but I cannot out-argue you. If the majority wish for the war to continue, then so be it....but I will remember who you are should disaster befall our troops fighting the true threat to Roma: the Cartheginians.
As for the Praetor: If he is truly convinced that one more battle is necessary, and one more province needs to be conquered, all for the good of Roma and not for personal gain, then he should withdraw his request for a Trivmpvs for the time being.

I am not going t sit here and be insulted, especially by someone who obviously does not understand what is going on. I head back to Legio I.
Sextus exits the Curia sighing deeply

I have to agree with the other senators, the complete takeover of the Epirote lands seems a bit hasty. We have conquered merely what they have previosly conquered, if we press on they will fight tooth and nail for their homeland, not something 1 legion can do.

And let us not forget how powerful a enemy Carthrage is. To open a 2 front war, especially one that might end in attrition, is foolish. Carthrage has a mighty navy and by all reports a considerable army.

Horatius Galcratus looks incredulous.

These arguments are completely unstable.

I see no reason why withdrawing a Triumphus should happen due to Epirus being the next target. That's ridiculous; I don't really see how this argument came about.

And to the last Senator, for the last time, this is not a complete takeover of Epirite lands. This is taking their homeland of Epirus, which is not adequetly defended to face an entire legion of some of the Republic's best troops.

And as for fighting a two front war and your concerns, have we not been at war with Epirus for years, and for the last few of those years also been at war with Carthage? Yet we have not been threatened by either race. They hate each other just as much as they hate us; their is hardly going to be an alliance between them.

A messenger walks in, with a scroll from Illyria.

"Sirs, a message from Caivs Avrelivs Cotta:"

Quote:

---

Great Senators of the Curia, welcome.

I thank you gracefully for your decision to grant my promotion. I will be capable with this new found rank, for the good of the Republic.

I have written to ask permission to take Ambrakia from the enemy. They house their royal army and elitist of troops there, and daily it gets stronger. We must strike now to stand the best chance of the least Roman lives lost. Do I have your permission, Senators?

---

Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio entered the Curia with somewhat insecure steps. (He had left it without arousing much interest a few hours earlier.) His face was unusually pale, but when he rose to speak his voice was as firm as always.

"Fellow senatores, as you see the gods have deemed it fitting to strike me with sudden illness. I hope it's only a passing matter, yet together with my augur's recent readings it has convinced me that it is now time to give up my position as Aedile of Tarentum. I request Cnaevs Cornelivs to be granted full provincial governing over Kalabria. He has done the Res Publica great services, both as dictator and as consul and he's well worth of the position. Now I will have to excuse myself, my medicus is panicking."

(OOC: Sadly it's a RL cold, so I won't be online as much as usual in the next few days.)

Norbanus rose

"I second Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio motion. Cnaevs Cornelivs would do well governing Southern Italy.
This is a trivial matter compared to our dilemma in Illyria. I say this calls for swift decisionmaking.
Therefore I propose the following:
1) Caius Aurelius Cotta should take Ambrakia, the last western stronghold of Epeiros. This will not defeat Epeiros, but they will have no more acces to the Adriatic Sea and the training facilities of the city. This will be a huge blow gentlemen. When we - at the same time - ally ourselves with the Makedonians, we will be able to conclude a peace treaty with Epeiros. THEY WILL HAVE NO CHOICE! We will have drawn out their teeth so they cannot bite anymore. They WILL lay low, leaving us to focus on Carthage.

2) We create a new Province on the east coast of the Adriatic, called Epeiros Romani. This is to be governed seperately from the more northern province Illyria. That way we do not grant all power to one person.

3) Caius Aurelius Cotta must understand that he cannot be in Roma to hold a triumph, AND conquer Ambrakia at the same time. He will also need time to settle matters and peace in the new province. Therefore I suggest we postpone his triumph until he returns to Roma.


Think about these proposals, they're for the good of the Republic."

Horatius Galcratus spoke

Or he could simply conquer Ambrakia before the congressional session, when he must return to Roma anyway?

"I never said he had to return BEFORE the congressional session? Let him conquer the settlement NOW, so we can send a new governor straight away next session, instead of leaving the province ungoverned for another 12 seasons!

I was merely stating that a general cannot be in Rome and in the field at the same time. Or does Caius Aurelius intend to triumph without actually being present?" Norbanus snickered.

Lvcvllvs, who had listened to the senatores, now arose and spoke up:

"Senatores, please hear me"

He looked to everybody around and then continued.

"It indeed is true, that taking the region of Epeiros - NOT all of the Epeirote territory, it's the name of the Region - would indeed not only avert a naval invasion in the future, but also give us access to an important harbour, which we can use ourselves."

Admonishingly he lifted a finger.

"I will not be responsive to ridiculous theories like a Seleukid invasion. It speaks for itself.

Almost all of you have agreed, that the Epeirotes are as good as defeated. Why let them rest in their capital city and gain strenght again? You say Phyrros is dead and the new king seeks peace? Where do you have this information from? From hundreds, nay thousands, of Epeirote mothers who have lost their sons, Epeirote sons who have lost their brothers or Epeirote brothers who have lost their fathers? No, they won't accept peace for a longer time."

Lvcvllvs raised his hand and pointed eastwards.

"And who should punish us for conquering our enemies? The Makedon? They are at war with Epeiros themselves. They more likely would become our allies than fight against us. Let us make an alliance with them."

Then he raised the other hand, pointing westwards in a huge gesture, in order to show the great distance between Carthage and Epeiros.

"And why on earth should Carthage ally with Epeiros, who once had invaded Sicily? Why should Carthage now - now that Epeiros is weak and we are not far from making them unable to threat us ever again - make an alliance with Epeiros, when they could have earlier, when Epeiros was strong?"

Lvcvllvs took another look around. Many senatores next to him nodded.
Then he sighed and continued with a shake of the head.

Some of the fellow senatores - as always, when they cannot allege better reasons anymore - may now come up with the point again, that I as a friend of Avlvs Aemilivs, who again is a friend of Caivs Avrelivs, only stand up to this cause due to this friendship. Nay, patres conscripti, don't let us throw around such stale arguments.

O Senatores, don't close your eyes in view of these incontrovertible facts and stop conjure up excuses, in order to harm those who you consider to be your political enemies. Let us take the region of Epeiros, for which we would not even need an entire Legion, and thereby let us avert the Epeirote danger once and for all. "

While saying "once and for all" he banged his fist on his palm of the hand.

The people of Rome not only will be safe, but also grateful for your far-seeing wisdom. And in the end this is what we all are here for. For the good of the Roman Republic."


To end his speech, he turned to Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio.

"Lvcivs Cornelivs, I hope you get well soon. "

Then he sat down and listened again to the other senatores.

A messenger arrives and heads straight for Exomnius, handing him a note

Exomnivs' voice quivered as he spoke Fellow Senators, I have received word from Sextvs Cornelivs Scapvla. He informs me that his colleague in Legio I, Sextvs Cornelivs Svlla, was displeased with my words and I am to apologize for that. Further, he wishes to let the Senate know that taking Ambrakia at this time makes sense strategically. It may take resources away from our war effort against Carthage in the short term, but the long term benefits of capturing such a strategic location can not be understated. He agrees with me that peace should be forced upon the Epirotes as swiftly as possible, but we should take Ambrakia while it is available to us.

Do you, now? Good. Interesting, but good. Since we all agree, I'm looking forward to the next Senatorial Session. Thank you, Senator.

A letter arrives from Caivs Avrelivs Cotta:

Quote:

---

Gentlemen of the Senate,

By apparant majoritial (?) confirmation, I assume it is the Senates view that, upon the conclusion of my Provincial Governership, I retake command of the Second and attack Ambrakia, before returning to Roma for the congressional session. Am I correct?

---

Norbanus rose

"Senators, let us act swiftly so this soon to be conquered settlement can be included in the next congressional session. This way we can send a governor. Otherwise we will have to wait another 12 turns before we can send a much needed governor there!

BUT, let us not forget to tell Caius Aurelius Cotta, that this means his triumph is to be postponed! He cannot have it both ways!"

"I agree. As I said, let's take the city before our foe gains strenght again." Lvcvllvs said

Then we are in agreement! May Minerva guide Caivs Avrelivs' hand and give him the wisdom and strength to end this swiftly and justly.

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus stands abruptly and passionately begins a firey diatribe.

"Praetor Caius Aurelius Cotta? Surely you must be joking!? The man has been courting senatores here like a cat in heat and those late night consortions have given birth to this abomination! Those who honestly give him credit for being a great general when he is reckless and fights lone patrols and spins the tales as if he were Hector slaying Achilles, you have a serious issue with integrity and discerning reality from the pseudo-god-like status he possesses in your minds alone!

"And what of this Provincial Governorship he was granted so thoughtlessly; though fortunately not unanimously, by this legislative body? Did the man set foot once in the capitol city? Did he issue one proclamation? I recall him requesting the Consul of Finance to assign workers to construct a building; but is that to be the extent of the legacy of all future Roman governors? Is that our benchmark for success? I surely hope not, for the love of all that is sacred and all those who have gone before us, I pray to the gods to strike me down on this very spot to keep me from living in a world where the Res Publica embraces mediocrity as the standard!"

Tiberius Claudius paced the floor and gesticulated poignantly to hammer home the importance of each item he brought forth. Many senatores were swept up in the rousing speech and Tiberius Claudius drew from their enthusiastic response. Emboldened, he continued to feed their fervor.

"Messenger from 'Praetor' Caius Aurelius Cotta, your master certainly does not have my vote for attacking Ambrakia. The Legio II Latium requires reinforcements and resupply. It will take a season alone to get what units are left intact into a cohesive fighting force. The taking of the city, if it should be done at all should wait until after a vote of confidence in the Senate session. Tell your master that his greed has not gone unnoticed. He is not Heracles reborn to undertake a dozen tasks. I will also remind those junior legislators who eagerly seek to ride the coat tails of Caius Aurelius to greatness to hold their tongues when speaking for the senate, as they do no such thing. Your opinions are just that, and carry no weight outside your singular vote when the body is in session.

Turning his attention back to the men of the Curia,

"Honored fathers and sons of Roma, do I need more evidence to convince you of the true nature of Caius Aurelius? Already he seeks to further extend and deplete his resources. He has earned a Triumphus in my mind for the slaying of Pyrrhus Anax; but his decisions and lust for glory and power border on the insane! My copmatriots Dux Servius Sempronius Longus and Legatus Decimus Cornelius Scipio, along with Consul, Dux Publius Atilius Regulus have time and time again stood against the current of sycophantism and popular opinion to speak the truth of the nature and character of this man. Recently, our chorus has been strengthened by the voices of new senatores who are not corrupted by the aura and mystique of the Cult of Caius Aurelius Cotta! They speak freely of their own volition to end what is an obvious abuse of power. Let us recall the 'Praetor' during the Congressional council and appraise his health. He has already failed at governing by virtue of the fact that he didn't govern at all! In this senator's opinion, he is unfit for duty until otherwise determined by this body!"

There was much uproar amongst the legislators upon that last crescendoed statement. Man argued with his fellow man vehemently attacking or defending the statements made by the Senator from Taras. Tiberius Claudius allowed the chaos to continue, controlled as it were by his mastery of rhetoric. When he noticed the volume begin to die down he called for silence that he might continue. If he allowed it to die on its own then some would not be persuaded that he held the power to direct the mob. It was best to maintain an air of calm authority during such matters. His father had indeed taught him well.

"Senatores! Senatores! Silence, I beg of you!" The crowd began to quiet itself and he continued.

"Senatores, fathers and sons of Roma, please. Allow me to continue. While the truth of the intent behind Caius Aurelius' actions has been laid bare by his own continued requests for self-lef conquest, the question remains on what to do with Illyria and the Epeirote Greeks?"

Tiberius Claudius began pacing the floor again, taking on a reflective quality to his voice as he laid out the situation to the East.

"We have successfully broken the backs of the pretended heirs to the throne of Philppos. Their king lies dead from Roman steel and their military is scattered and weak. On our doorstep lies their capitol of Ambrakia, the homeland and symbolic embodiment of all that is Eperiote. There is no doubt that the enemy will fight fiercely to protect this land from our hands - that much is unquestionable.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For RP purposes, I suggest we spawn a 3/4 stack of levies and light infantry w/ a family member cavalry unit as a defense force IF we decide to take Ambrakia. It would represent farmers and families making the last stand to protect their homes, signifying that they are willing to die rather than submit to our rule.

"Because the Legio II Latium is stretched so thin as it stands now, and its men are beaten and bloodied, and in need of refitting and resupply, I suggest, again, that any invasion of Eperios and the capitol city be held off until appropriate reinforcements can be sent. By that time the men will be rested, an extra defense force can be sent if needed, and perhaps even, hopefully if the gods are kind, Caius Aurelius Cotta will be relieved of command, allowing his Legati to earn experience and perhaps bring some honor back to the Legio as a whole, rather than to one glorified misfit commander.

"Gentlemen, I cannot stress the importance of not continuing the attack on the Eperiotes enough. But should we decide otherwise, I still argue that a client ruler would serve our needs best if he governed Ambrakia. By not romanizing the area too much, we would stand the chance of levying Phalangitai Deuteroi to compliment our more mobile forces. Additionally, by keeping a Greek in a position of nominal power in an area that would be allied with visible autonomy, we will show the other Hellenes that we are more agreeable than the conquering despots and tryrants that they currently fight against."

With that, Tiberius Claudius Marcellus seated himself, eagerly looking to continue the debate.

Lvcvllvs spoke:

"Tiberius Claudius, as always your sharp tongue and eloquence command our respect. Still I have to repeat: The capital city of Epeiros is badly defended, since the force that came from there is destroyed. Therefore the right time to strike is now."

OOC:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Of course we will not spawn enemy armies just to make your arguments valuable, you cunning fox :laugh4: :laugh4:

Throughout the speech, Horatius Galcratus' mouth had been opening wider and wider in disbelief. Finally, he found the strength to stand up.

"Tiberius Claudius Marcellus, this is just propostrous. I am no confidential of Caivs Avrelivs, but I feel I must stand and say something here. It's not that I do not just disagree with your speech; it's just plain false. Your accusations are wrong, not even opinionated, some of them. Just plain lies.

Allow me to explain.

First, today and in days past, you continously attack Caivs Avrelivs for his military tactics. In my opinion, it's none of your damn business how he commands the men under him whilst they serve in the Legio II. Reckless? Perhaps, but this is not always a bad point, as he took with him only volunteers, leaving nearly the entire legion to protect the province he had been charged to protect.

He was not granted any Provincial Governership thoughtlessly. Our entire Curia voted in the last session, and he gained the majority of the votes. That does not spell thoughtlessness to me. To your questions, Did the man set foot once in the capitol city? Did he issue one proclamation? Yes he did. Your mind must be worse than mine if you do not remember Caivs Avrelivs in Roma asking the Senate for the governership of Illyria Hellenike. If you would like I can ask the scribes to dig out the minutes of the last Congressional Session to prove so. Caivs Avrelivs has been present in his province's capital, albeit not the complete two years. But how can you possibly say he has not been governing, simply because he does not stay sat behind a desk for a continuous two years? He has been governing, through aides, scribes and officials if not present himself, the way any man has ever and will ever do.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Thats a rubbish argument TCM. No politician stays in their capital city with no exceptions during their whole time in office. Its propostrous. And yet their areas are still governed, are they not?

And here comes one of the finist points of my argument, Senator. The Legio II requires reinforcments and resupply? You cannot just make these things up? I saw a report only yesterday. The Legio II is at full strength, low only on cavalry, of which are already on their way to the crossing point at Taras harbour. The Legio II is extremely well supplied, having been settled within Illyria Hellenike for many months. What units are left intact, you say? All units save one cavalry regiment, of which I have already described. You cannot simply just make these things up, when the facts are plain to see by everyone.

Not Herakles reborn to undertake a dozen tasks? Where does, in his reports or messages, it ask a dozen tasks? I see one: the capture of Ambrakia. More lies. More make believe. I like the way you address those junior legislators who eagerly seek to ride the coat tails of Caius Aurelius to greatness to hold their tongues when speaking for the senate, as they do no such thing. I heard one Tribune, true, but as you in the past have fought for fervently, we are all equals within this hall. Lvcvllvs is no mere Tribune, and neither am I. The Tribune of the Plebs has even spoken. How can all these men mean nothing, but one spoken speach by you, a Legate, decides the decision of the whole Senate? That is, again, wrong. You tell of how Caivs Avrelivs breaks the laws of Roma, while you yourself make your own rules here. Pathetic, if you ask me.

Once again you bring up Caivs Avrelivs' 'failure to govern at all.' Which of course is propostrous. I don't believe taxes pay themselves, nor to buildings build themselves. Officials, scribes and aides do not make their own work. We do not need the man to stand on the step saying 'I am governer, governing' constantly for decisions to actually be made. I am sure sack-loads of orders with Caivs Avrelivs' seal can be brought before the Senate to prove his success at the job assigned to him.

Caivs Avrelivs seeks only the expansion of Roman influence and power. How can he seek his own, when we rule our Republic from Roma, from whence he is often absent?

Quote:

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"We have successfully broken the backs of the pretended heirs to the throne of Philppos. Their king lies dead from Roman steel and their military is scattered and weak. On our doorstep lies their capitol of Ambrakia, the homeland and symbolic embodiment of all that is Eperiote. There is no doubt that the enemy will fight fiercely to protect this land from our hands - that much is unquestionable.

---

No we haven't. We defeated them in Illyria, a foreign land to them. Their king lies dead, yes. Well, amazingly, they have a new king! Isn't that incredible! Their military is certainly not scattered and weak. Take a look at any of Caivs Avrelivs' recent reports, and you'll see they harbour a great many number in Ambrakia, Makedonia and Byzantion.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also, how can you just decide that all these people would rise up to defend? That's not your decision, as it effects the possibility of a victory. That should be entirely up to Navarro as gamemaster.

Quote:

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Because the Legio II Latium is stretched so thin as it stands now, and its men are beaten and bloodied, and in need of refitting and resupply, I suggest, again, that any invasion of Eperios and the capitol city be held off until appropriate reinforcements can be sent. By that time the men will be rested, an extra defense force can be sent if needed, and perhaps even, hopefully if the gods are kind, Caius Aurelius Cotta will be relieved of command, allowing his Legati to earn experience and perhaps bring some honor back to the Legio as a whole, rather than to one glorified misfit commander.

---

Again, these are all lies; not even the faintest of truths or twists. The Legion is not stretched thin, its men have not seen combat for many weeks, so they are hardly beaten and bloodied. They are adequetly supplied and have al the equipment necessary. There are no need for reinforcments, as reinforcments have only just been sent to all the legions in the field. And as for the replacement of the commander, I see absolutely no other reason for this than your own jealousy. Perhaps you should ask the legionarries under his command, the ones you have out of the blue claimed have no honour and apparantly hate and fear their commander, for their own opinion, rather than making one for them to suit yourself.

In one breath you say the whole region is set to explode and arm themselves, and that you stress that the war against the Epirites be stopped. But then you say Ambrakia should be taken and a Greek, of all people, should be put there to rule. This may be news to you, Senator, but Greeks already rule there. They hate our guts! For the Gods' sake use your brain! We attack, conquer as a stronger people taking our revenge for the wrongs done by these people. This 'client ruler' would hold nothing for Roma, would owe us nothing. It will show us as weak and unable to comprehend what we have taken. This entire escapade is an act of jealousy that you are not the one that benefits solely from this expedition. Caivs Avrelivs aims to disable our enemy, that it will protect our provinces from attack, and keep the people under our control safe.

Like I said, your speech is just lies, completely false accusations and jealous taunts. I do not see how any Senator with half a brain could possibly not see this.

Tiberius Claudius shot to his feet, pleased to be on the offensive again, and shoved an arm and extended finger towards Horatius Galcratus,

"It is you who are preposterous in your denying of facts for the sake of convenience! You are as much as fool as that bearded Balbatus was! Everything I have said can be backed up with evidence, senator. While I do select the proper language to drive home the points I am trying to make with the most effect, I am deeply offended to have been called a liar in these hallowed halls when the contrary is clearly known to be true.

"Firstly, your opinion is ill-informed, as the actions of every general and each legio are indeed my business as a senator and the business of every man sitting in this room! This is a Republic and, by the gods it will remain one so long as I draw breath! As a republic each of us here is entitled to speak their minds as to the actions of others, and I say that Caius Aurelius Cotta is not only reckless, he flirts with madness! Time after time he further divided and subdivided his forces until he charged into enemy territory and there, left behind the bodies of good, noble Roman men while he fought for personal glory, seeking to stretch the spirit of the law and earn more promotions with ignoble victories.

"Additionally, I do deem the Provincial Governorship thoughtless because it was passed in the wave of good feelings that pervaded the senses of the less-logical who desired to honor their new-found god. Remember: the mob loves a victor. Those senatores with common sense argued against this promotion and lo and behold, our objections were well-founded. Then-Quaestor Caius Aurelius Cotta may have issued dispatches hither and yon - in fact, I recall dealing with one inept and impolite imbecile sent to the Legio III Campania while we were garrisoned in Epidamnos waiting to transfer power to the 'governor' - but a central authority that supervises and keeps corruption at bay through vigilance is what is required to govern effectively. While the 'governor' was out spreading his forces thin and chasing individual patrols out of a deranged glory-driven sense of bloodlust, Dux Servius Sempronius literally goverend the city of Epidamnos and its surrounding farmlands, bringing the different sects to the table and encouraging them to give up their hostilities and instead return to their normal lives and work together to bring the land into a newfound era of peace and prosperity. I stand by my statement that Caius Aurelius Cotta was too busy playing Alexander than administering to the needs of his people or his assigned task."

Chuckling broke out amongst the senators, while those who were befriended to the new Praetor folded their arms and pouted.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Don't tell me in a spoil message that my argument is rubbish, tell me in the Curia by winning the argument! :-P

Tiberius Claudius took this time to rifle through some papers that had been brought to him by aides from the Senatorial Library. When he found the one he wanted, he made a show of dusting it off and straightening the crumpled edges. He held it high for all the law makers to see, as he turned slowly to meet the eyes of every man in the room.

"Horatius Galcratus denies that the Legio II Latium requires resupply and reinforcement. He goes so far as to accuse me of making the argument up! I show you now, here, the battle reports that have arrived from Illyria. There is indeed one unit of Equites Romani that is so depleted that the men have been functionally disbanded and used as couriers for the time being that their numbers remain despicably low. Additionally, good men, I speak of the body guards of our general and the Tribunus that accompanied him into Eperios. These men are the best of the best. Their armor, mounts, and weapons are above those of the average soldier. Their training requires years from their lives to earn the proper trust and the martial ability to be the creme de la creme and be so willing to give their lives in defense of the officer they protect. The body guards of these two men are depleted to the point of uselessness on the field of battle.

"Do not mistake my words as doubting their courage or their individual ability - for I do not and have utmost respect for these soldiers. As a matter of practicallity, however, their numbers have dwindled so as to be insignificant. If we notice this, so too do our enemies far and wide. What a tempting target the widely known and celebrated 'Praetor' Caius Aurelius Cotta would be. Imagine what a tribute his ransom could yield should he be captured. Imagine the blow to Roman morale should he fall from a stray arrow or a well-executed ambush. Should this man be allowed to beseige the city of Ambrakia - in the heart of Epeirote territory, he would no doubt be slain at the walls - unless, of course, our 'Praetor' sought to watch the battle from afar, instead allowing his men to earn him another title with their blood and bodies."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I am not making the decision to spawn an army, I suggested it as Role Play. As such, I think we should vote on it in the senate. I may request to make an event out of it and force you to fight them though, if you really insist on being a bugger about it.

Much jeering erupted from the legislative body, booing and hissing the thought of a Roman commander sitting in safety while his men perished. Tiberius Claudius smirked, he had done well with that line. Not wishing to give his opponents time to counter-attack, he continued with renewed vigor,

"Gentlemen, gentlemen, let us compose ourselves. Sadly, there is much more to laugh at regarding the 'Praetor' and his antics, were they not so criminal and deranged in nature. Horatius Galcratus, do not attempt to turn my words against me. I do not seek to make my words carry more weight than my fellow senators'. I corrected an over-zealous; but well-intentioned junior peer. Am I wrong to do so? Just as in a family, older siblings keep the younger in line for the preservation of the family - and when necessary, the younger ones inform their seniors when they, too are incorrect as I have done just now to you. Happily, mea maxima culpa.

"You also, Horatius Galcratus, claim that Caius Aurelius is not seeking twelve tasks anew, yet while the number may indeed be greater than a dozen, they come one by one, battle after battle, promotion after promotion, honor after honor. First it was the northern tribes he wished to conquer until they were all defeated. When we finally stopped him there, he proposes a Dux campaign for his personal glory. When that was completed he sought a Triumphus. When we would not give it to him he strayed from our borders and abandoned his post as governor (for which he sulked like a spoiled child) to chase down Pyrrhus. When he had slain the scourge of Epeiros he continued his slaughter and killed an enemy patrol while suffering fifty-percent casualties! Now that he has been gifted the rank of Praetor, who knows where his next infantile tantrum will send him, what riches and honors will he seek for himself instead of the greater good of the Senatus Populusque Romanum. I say the man is a spoiled child who needs a bit of the rod to curb his appetite, lest we allow him to become too bloated and fat to be of any use to anyone!"

Tiberius Claudius returned the casualty report he had held to his desk and poured a cup of water. He drank it down and poured another while he mulled his options. The old wind bag Horatius Galcratus had spoken long on may subjects. His mind wandered like the senile man he was. It was difficult keeping track of the topics that must be covered to shut down his arguments. Tiberius Clauius chuckled to himself, there would always be supporters of the hero of the hour. This would be a never ending job. Turning to his opponent he candidly asked,

"What makes what I say lies, Horatius Galcratus? Because you say they are? Because you believe they are? Because Caius Aurelius wishes them to be? Everything I have said so far has been truthful to the core. You show no facts to back up your statements, yet I offer the casualty lists from the battle reports as evidence. Look at the history of the actions of this man and you will clearly, clearly see him for who he is. The list reads like the histories of Greek tyrants or our old Kings. A tyrant is always looking for new enemies to defeat in order to distract the people, and when no more enemies are to be found outside, then he is constantly inventing up some atrocity or offense on which to declare war. And when that fails, it is his very own people who shall bear the brunt of his paranoia. Fortunately, for now, we remain in the first stage.

"We have the Eperiotes as defeated as they need to be, for the time being. They are reeling from the massive losses they have sustained and their armies are far from our borders. Let us consolidate our holdings and send more troops to the region. If these enemies are so numerous, then surely, you and the supporters of the 'Praetor', even he himself would want to have suffifcient forces in the region? Or is the enemy truly much smaller than you would have us believe that a single legion is capable of wiping them all out? You cannot have it both ways Galcratus.

"You speak of jealousy, as if you know me. I don't believe we had met formally until just recently. There is nothing to be jealous of when the object of affection is a mad man. I will keep my sanity and my honor any day over being thought a power-grubbing trollop. Again, you add words that were not spoken. When did I attack the honor of the men of the Legio II Latium? When did I say that they feared their commander? What I said was that a new commander could bring honor back to the entire legion - meaning that all the glory goes to Caius Aurelius and his massive Ego, rather than to the men who fought and earned him the victories! Check the Phalerium if you doubt me. Not one honor has been bestowed on his troops by him in nearly a decade! A new commander will undoubtedly seek to give the men the respect that they deserve, rather than absorb it all himself, you insufferable dithering fool!

"You also again twist my words, as you have done for the uncountable time today. I did not say that Ambrakia should be taken. I said that if the region is to be taken after a debate in the senate after the next congressional council, then I would make the region an allied region and indeed place a puppet governor there who would be loyal to us and friendly to the local populace. I indeed stand by my statement that the populace would arm themselves against a Roman invasion. This is their homeland, as we have all pointed time and time again. They will defend it with each of their lives! Though they are Greek they are human beings and feel as we feel. They love their homes no less than we.

"As for your doubts regarding the loyalty of Greeks, you oversimplify the situation, much as you oversimplify every argument you make, especially this afternoon's. There are Greeks who love Roma. We established that much when we debated invading southern Hellas many years ago. That is fact. Simply because it is convenient for your arguments does not suffice to declare that there is not one capable governor who holds favor with the local populace and who is loyal to Roma. With enough Roman influence and military presence, augmented with local arms and men, this situation can absolutely be brought to our advantage. I learned long ago to deal with defeats in the Senate honorably, as a man should. I bear no grudge against Caius Aurelius for his success. What I do take issue with is his incessant plotting and scheming to continue to climb unabated until he reach stars and proclaim himself Rex Romanum! It is clear for all to see, if one but opens ones eyes. There are intelligent senatores here who know the wisdom of my words. We ended the near-tyrany of Cnaeus Cornelius Blasio, and by the gods I swear we will cut the head off of this newest serpent!"

Sextus runs into the Curia, a scowl on his face

Horatius, I just got severel detailed repots about troops massing on our illyrian border, aparently with orders to march on Epirus. at first I assumed this was nothing special but then I got severel transcripts from the Curia that amounted to the fact the senate is not through discussing the assault. so I have one thing to ask, is Cotta (yes that is as an a insult) planning a attack without the senates aproval! because that is going to far, I support an assault on Epirus but that does not mean you can just disregared the senate and do whatever the H*** you want, I believe that it is time to tell Cotta that this senate is not some plaything for his amusement, we can not simply be ignored whenever he finds us anoying! I demand that he come and face us himself, and explain his current actions!

Tiberius tossed the papers he had been going through into the air with a look of disgusted incredulence on his face.

"Unbelievable. Simply and utterly unbelievable. Who wrote this comedy of errors? I cannot believe that the man wouldn't even consider what any of us would have to say? We barely received the message that the land was vulnerable to attack and already we're getting reports that he's marching on them? It is simply impossible for him to have gotten any word of this debate......It's just......."

Tiberius sighed loudly and stood, with an arm extended towards Sextus Cornelius Sulla he spoke, however the vibrant timbre to his voice was uncharacteristically absent.

"Men of Roma, all of these arguments of kingship that I and others have made throughout the years are culminating here in these coming days. Caius Aurelius Cotta is a man who will answer to none save a bolt from Iupiter or a sword in his gut. He is incorrigible to the last. If you doubted my words before, this last bit of evidence should be what breaks the ass' back. What more can anyone say? It is occuring in plain sight to a chorus of mighty applause."

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus moved so that an aide could gather the papers he had cast into the air. He shook his head and looked to want to speak but could not bring himself to do it. He began walking to the exit while finally summoning the will to speak,

"You men of Roma have made your bed. Dux Servius Sempronius has seen fit that I command the Legio III Campania to further my knowledge and experience of leading men in battle. I and my men will be clearing Italia of the rebellious Aphistemenoi until the Congressional Council, and hopefully when my good friend Consul, Dux Publius Atilius Regulus can regain his strength.

Semper Fidelis."

Exomnivs stood, considering his words carefully. He had already flip-flopped once today and knew that his opinion would likely be taken with a grain of salt. Nonetheless, he knew that what was in his mind must be said

Senators, the city of Ambrakia and the region of Epeiros are key strategic points for whomever wishes to exert control over the Adriatic and Ionian Seas. Sextvs Cornelivs Scapvla knows this, which is why he believes that with a clear battle plan, a replenished legion, and the blessing of the Senate this region should be taken. But do you realize that if Caivs Aurelivs Cotta takes Ambrakia he can then do as he pleases, regardless of the will of the Senate? He may declare himself king, and with our other legions entangled with Carthage, Taras would be wide open for invasion from accross the Otranto Strait!

Boos and jeers began to spew from the Senate. Exomnivs knew that he was starting to get carried away, but he hoped that there was some logic in his reasoning. Even Sextvs Cornelivs Scapvla might find it all preposterous, but then again, the Legatvs was away. Exomnivs then started to wonder how Sextvs Cornelivs Svlla could manage to travel back and forth from Gaul so quickly...

Sextus breathed heavily alright, I am sure this can be cleared up.... Horatius get Cotta here, he will surely have a good reson for this... or at least he better. Sextus ran his hand through his hair sighing again


OOC: well since I havent spoken for a turn then its been a season, I think I can get from gaul to rome in a season :beam: speaking technically that is.

"Gentlemen, aside from the Epirote issue, I feel we have completely forgot Consul Manivs Cicero and his campaign against the Carthaginians. I think that now is a good time to discuss taking Sicilia while we have them where we want them. Perhaps Legio IV could do the job? If our wounded Consul would allow me, I could command the campaign, less he has healed. Has anyone news of our good friends condition?"

Oh no, please Exominvs, not another fool who sees a potential king in every political enemy.Do you really think, that a man with ONE Legion would invade Italy. More and more it gets ridiculous

"Not necessarily insane, once Ambrakia is taken, it will free up Legio III to come along with Legio IV. Also, our men will decimate the pitifully trained Carthaginians as Consul Manivs Cicero did against them in Gual."

Horatius Galcratus, having been interrupted before he had had time to compose a speech to rival Tiberius Marcellus', stood once more.

I agree, the issue of Illyria needs to be wrapped up. However it is not possible to do so whilst Ambrakia remains a constant threat, while Epirite forces also gather in Makedonia and Byzantion. Roman Illyria risks being attacked from three sides. Taking Ambrakia and the mountain passess would seriosuly protect Roman Illyria from the enemy.

And to the claim that the Senate did not support an attack on Ambrakia, I specifically remember several Senators giving te affirmative. The only one who didn't until the orders were passed on to Caivs Avrelivs was Tiberivs Marcellvs, naturally. Only now, once Ambrakia is in site, certain junior senators get fidgety and squeal their distaste, which was previously hidden or the opposite. No doubt a certain Senator has been having words with them.

And as for me calling Caiv Avrleivs here, you can do that yourself, young man. I am not your nursemaid, nor am I Caivs Avrelivs' representative in the Senate.

Norbanus rose


"Calm down everybody. Soon Caius Aurelius' bussiness in Illyria will be over, and he MUST come to rome to hold his triumph. All things you want said to (or done to) Caius Aurelius, can wait until then. Let us pray for a swift capture of Ambrakia so we can turn our attention in full to the much forgotten Carthagenian problem.

Let the peace return to the Curia!"

I, Deciumus Cornelius Scipio, propose Edict 5.6; That House Licentia Proeliator be able to form only with the sponsorship of a Quaestor. In this case Potocello.

I also wish to discuss a possible edict 5.7; to give each legion a couple of Italian Ally cohorts, but only with the consent of the legion commander. I do not officially propose this because I want to see the senate's reaction to it. I personally believe Rome's strength will only be enhanced with the use of our allies here in Italia, for too long they have had to sell themselves as mercenarys or brigands in order to raise a sword.

(OOC: this post will be posted again in a day or 2. It was a unfortunate accident)

And I, Lvcvllvs Valerivs, kindly ask you to wait for the Senatorial Session to propose your Edict, like everyone has to. This is a matter of formality. I have nothing against you forming this house.