ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

I can agree with this.

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I remember us talking about Assad and your stance was quite different. Ah, we live and learn.

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Originally Posted by rvg

This rests on the assumption that isis will be allowed to exist as some sort of a quasi state. I don't think that will be the case as neither Iraq nor Syria would be content to maintain the status quo, and our air power will considerably worsen the situation for isis.

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Unless we put boots on the ground, they will exist. You can't win the war with just bombs.

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Originally Posted by Shaka_Khan

Have you seen the map that ISIS used to show how far they plan on expanding? I'm not lying. They plan on expanding to western China. My Chinese friend told me that it was on the news in China. I'm not saying that ISIS is able to. I'm just explaining how peace is not in their minds for now. And being in a war with China means war for a long long time.

And I wonder what will happen if ISIS does terrorist acts on American land? Would the US send soldiers to Iraq and Syria?

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Even if they never stop attacking, there is always a point when the strength of the two forces are in equilibrium and that point is where the border is drawn. As long as the border remains stable, people on either side of the border will continue to live as they always have just as US citizens go about their days without giving much thought that we have been at war for over 10 years.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Why not, the guy who did it is someone with culture from London by the way. You just got to respect that.

oh oh ohhhhh, what did you haul in. Why don't people understand that what IS is doing is what their holy book tells them they should be doing.

Just more obviously so. Islam is a vile ideoligy, get over it lefties and other multiculti-curious, it's what it is and nothing else.

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Your point is moot. What he said was tasteless, end of story.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Unless we put boots on the ground, they will exist. You can't win the war with just bombs.

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Kurdish Peshmerga fighters are our boots on the ground.

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Originally Posted by rvg

Kurdish Peshmerga fighters are our boots on the ground.

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They will not and can not push through all the way into syria.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

They will not and can not push through all the way into syria.

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They can, they will and they already do. YPG is the Syrian Kurdish group that does well against ISIS.

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Originally Posted by rvg

They can, they will and they already do. YPG is the Syrian Kurdish group that does well against ISIS.

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It's not just a matter of logistics (which I doubt is sustainable for them) but also of politics. Iraq, Turkey and Syria all leave the kurds well enough alone for the most part. But letting the Kurds take all the glory of battle and capture ISIS land forces a situation where they have the clout to push for an fully independent kurdistan in both Iraq and possibly Syria as well.

Believe me, I want nothing more than for Kurds to wipe out ISIS with US support and be able to finally live in peace under self determination. I have said already I support a multi state solution in the area. I just don't see it happening. You see where I am coming from?

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

It's not just a matter of logistics (which I doubt is sustainable for them) but also of politics. Iraq, Turkey and Syria all leave the kurds well enough alone for the most part. But letting the Kurds take all the glory of battle and capture ISIS land forces a situation where they have the clout to push for an fully independent kurdistan in both Iraq and possibly Syria as well.

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Turkey is now an active supporter and promoter of Iraqi Kurdistan. They reason that Iraqi Kurds are openly discussing their independence today as opposed to ten years ago is due to Turkey withdrawing its objections. Iraqi Kurdistan is already de-facto independent and within a span of a few months it will be de-jure independent as well. Turkey has no problem with it.

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Believe me, I want nothing more than for Kurds to wipe out ISIS with US support and be able to finally live in peace under self determination. I just don't see it happening. You see where I am coming from?

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I think you are making judgements based on obsolete information. Things have changed considerably in the last 12 months.

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Originally Posted by rvg

Turkey is now an active supporter and promoter of Iraqi Kurdistan. They reason that Iraqi Kurds are openly discussing their independence today as opposed to ten years ago is due to Turkey withdrawing its objections. Iraqi Kurdistan is already de-facto independent and within a span of a few months it will be de-jure independent as well. Turkey has no problem with it.

I think you are making judgements based on obsolete information. Things have changed considerably in the last 12 months.

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Possibly, I don't really follow the situation that closely other than a daily news article. Didn't know that about Turkey, glad to hear they have changed their tune.

Is Turkey hoping their Kurds will move to Iraq?

Best case scenario Kurds in Turkey are integrated into society in Turkey. Everyone is happy.

Bordering them is Syria-Kurdistan region/state/country and bordering them is Iraq-Kurdistan region/state/country.

Hopefully Kurds in turn treat their minorities well and the dialogue begins with the Turkish Kurds forming a bridge between Turkey and the other Kurdish regions.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Your point is moot. What he said was tasteless, end of story.

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Yeah, cutting of a head is haut culture. The guy got allahu-hakbarred, basta.

What keeps amazing me is how docile allahu-hakbarred victims are. You are going to die anyway so I would put up as much as a fight as possible

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Originally Posted by rvg

Turkey is now an active supporter and promoter of Iraqi Kurdistan. They reason that Iraqi Kurds are openly discussing their independence today as opposed to ten years ago is due to Turkey withdrawing its objections. Iraqi Kurdistan is already de-facto independent and within a span of a few months it will be de-jure independent as well. Turkey has no problem with it.

I think you are making judgements based on obsolete information. Things have changed considerably in the last 12 months.

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Do you have something to back that up? I find it highly improbable that Turkey would be supporting independent Kurdistan due to their own Kurdish minority, which will most likely want a piece of Turkey. Hoping that their Kurds will just move to the new state on their own seems naive.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

What keeps amazing me is how docile allahu-hakbarred victims are. You are going to die anyway so I would put up as much as a fight as possible

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Total depressed
Tortured to the point that this is a preferred option
Extreme version of Stockholm syndrome
Medicated

And the ones who don't go quietly don't have videos released either.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Total depressed
Tortured to the point that this is a preferred option
Extreme version of Stockholm syndrome
Medicated

And the ones who don't go quietly don't have videos released either.

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Saw a beheading of a guy, it looked almost intimate. The beheader very gently pulled up the ear, and started cutting. Was pretty quik, 4 seconds or so. No protest, no screaming. Maybe indeed medicated. Freaky.

Speaking of Kurdish fighters, where is our resident Kurd?

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Originally Posted by rajpoot

Speaking of Kurdish fighters, where is our resident Kurd?

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Busy sending me PM's like this:

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Originally Posted by KurdishSpartakus

this was when all complained that why the world media tells everything about Gaza but does not cover the news about Kobane! because there ISIS promised if they take there they will Butcher all Yezidi kurds and those who resisted against them! they largeley attacked YPG and YPJ (Womens Part) defended to the last blood withouth any kind of help from The Barzani or USA & EU! instead Turkey sent more weapons to ISIS and the world did not criticize them at least because its "Turk" and USA & EU's Racist Ally! by the way YPG & YPJ bravely defended until ISIS retreated with US & Turkey's heavy Weapons!!!

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Same old, same old...

Got him on facebook, he got a permaban supposedly

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Got him on facebook, he got a permaban supposedly

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From here or from facebook?

Here, is what he says at least, could also just be the cooldown. Never saw something overly offensive really, just too many links to make a thread work

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Even if they never stop attacking, there is always a point when the strength of the two forces are in equilibrium and that point is where the border is drawn. As long as the border remains stable, people on either side of the border will continue to live as they always have just as US citizens go about their days without giving much thought that we have been at war for over 10 years.

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I'm afraid that they can be a threat with terrorist strikes beyond their border. Think of how many different nationalities joined them. I'm pretty sure that they have more followers where those nationalities came from.

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Originally Posted by Shaka_Khan

I'm afraid that they can be a threat with terrorist strikes beyond their border. Think of how many different nationalities joined them. I'm pretty sure that they have more followers where those nationalities came from.

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Fair point.

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Originally Posted by Shaka_Khan

I'm afraid that they can be a threat with terrorist strikes beyond their border. Think of how many different nationalities joined them. I'm pretty sure that they have more followers where those nationalities came from.

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Just to make you feel better, an overwhelming majority of the Dutch muslims (74%) thinks dutch muslims who pack up to fight are heroes. Can be be nuanced I suppose, as the questions asked are more about fighting against Assad rather than fighting for IS. But they can't have missed what IS actually does. Smileys are flying all over the internet about the beheaded journalist.

Sometimes you just have to question if islam is really an enrichment to our culture as lefties will furiously scream if you say it wasn't the greatest idea in the world and surroundings to import islam.

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Do you have something to back that up? I find it highly improbable that Turkey would be supporting independent Kurdistan due to their own Kurdish minority, which will most likely want a piece of Turkey. Hoping that their Kurds will just move to the new state on their own seems naive.

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It's been discussed quite intensively over the past few months. I'm quite honestly surprised that this is news to you. Here.

well at least the Mexican cartels will no longer corner the market on beheading videos. competition spurs creativity, lower prices and a better free market

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Sometimes you just have to question if islam is really an enrichment to our culture as lefties will furiously scream if you say it wasn't the greatest idea in the world and surroundings to import islam.

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For now it's still not too late to crush it in Europe, although France seems to be rapidly approaching the point of no return.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Just to make you feel better, an overwhelming majority of the Dutch muslims (74%) thinks dutch muslims who pack up to fight are heroes. Can be be nuanced I suppose, as the questions asked are more about fighting against Assad rather than fighting for IS. But they can't have missed what IS actually does. Smileys are flying all over the internet about the beheaded journalist.

Sometimes you just have to question if islam is really an enrichment to our culture as lefties will furiously scream if you say it wasn't the greatest idea in the world and surroundings to import islam.

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Well, you seem to have utterly missed what they do. They're not just one of the smallest rebel groups; they spend most of their time fighting against other Syrian rebel groups.

Supporting Syrian rebels =/= supporting ISIS

That is not to say that a worrying percentage of ISIS is European-born, the point is that you can't translate support for the syrian groups into any kind of support for ISIS.

I know that not all of the Muslims are dangerous to society. But from what I can tell from the news, I believe that there are a significant number in Western Europe who could cause problems even when being in the minority.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Well, you seem to have utterly missed what they do. They're not just one of the smallest rebel groups; they spend most of their time fighting against other Syrian rebel groups.

Supporting Syrian rebels =/= supporting ISIS

That is not to say that a worrying percentage of ISIS is European-born, the point is that you can't translate support for the syrian groups into any kind of support for ISIS.

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That's what I said no, that it can be nuanced.

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Originally Posted by Shaka_Khan

I know that not all of the Muslims are dangerous to society. But from what I can tell from the news, I believe that there are a significant number in Western Europe who could cause problems even when being in the minority.

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Not all Christians are a danger to society, but there are a significant number who could cause problems even when being in the minority.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

That's what I said no, that it can be nuanced.

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"Nuanced" is an understatement.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

"Nuanced" is an understatement.

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You haven't even read it.

If you want to deny the reality of how muslims who live in peace here actually think, go ahead. Doesn't make these 74% terrorists mind you.