IMMIGRATION thread

Originally Posted by Husar:
What about the word "black market" implies legally buying something?

Yeah, let us separate 2 things here:

1. What people are allowed to get.

2. What people can get.


Your reasoning is basically that drugs are illegal, that's why we have no drug problems around the world.

Whenever I discuss with people like you, I have to ask myself:

Do you build up some ability to pat yourself on the back, or are you seriously thinking your left hand meeting your right hand - is what is to be considered a high five?

If so, let's not get started on the sex life, shall we?

Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV:
Yeah, let us separate 2 things here:

1. What people are allowed to get.

2. What people can get.


Your reasoning is basically that drugs are illegal, that's why we have no drug problems around the world.

Whenever I discuss with people like you, I have to ask myself:

Do you build up some ability to pat yourself on the back, or are you seriously thinking your left hand meeting your right hand - is what is to be considered a high five?

If so, let's not get started on the sex life, shall we?

How about you stop hallucinating and then we talk?

Originally Posted by Husar:
How about you stop hallucinating and then we talk?

How about you Germans sealing off your borders as of international treaties, and do your effin job?

I just get tired of 3 year old children found with their head down in the sand upon a beach, because people like you want to be oh-so-damn-good without any type of second thought about what it is you actually do.

You gave border responsibility to countries with levels of either corruption of ineptness that are staggering. Bravo - works well when there are no problems. Instantly broke when there are.

Germany has a dropping population. And a rising elderly population. They need young blood from somewhere. UK has a rising population. Yes, more highly trained persons to replace the indigenous dross would be great.

But like so many things designed by a group of persons at a 5 star hotel with no experience to that which they are designing it fails real life stress tests.

~:smoking:

Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny:
Syrian Invasion: Total War?

Since it's over land I think the AI can actually handle it. Once again, England is imbalanced because the AI sucks at naval invasions. But these free upkeep jihad stacks are really pushing far inland.

"the Africans"

No, there is no such thing as "the Africans" any more than "the Europeans".

Originally Posted by Myth:
Since it's over land I think the AI can actually handle it. Once again, England is imbalanced because the AI sucks at naval invasions. But these free upkeep jihad stacks are really pushing far inland.

Await them at the river crossings. Bridge battles are gonna be a breeze.

Originally Posted by Viking:
"the Africans"

No, there is no such thing as "the Africans" any more than "the Europeans".

There is more genetic diversity in some countries in africa than the rest of the world put together.

~:smoking:

Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name:
In five years, if the system doesn't get overrun by the sheer number of people flocking to Europe... I'm afraid the right wing will start seeing massive waves of support.

Allready have, but don't mind me saying that the rightwing is much more reasonable. Even boring.

Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV:
PS: If anyone wonder about my use of the term "black males", around 80% of the people seeking refugee status are male. Because women, you know, in their cultures are not worth to save.

And yes, **** them. That goes against like EVERY lesson my father taught me growing up.

If they're actually economic migrants, it might make sense since the fathers can make a lot more money in the richer country that they can send back home where the cost of living is lower.

Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV:
Thank you for your ability to read things I write.

What I fear, at least about Sweden that has accepted the most... Is that we will soon see, well, horse manure?

I mean, you can only have so many daughters assault raped and so many sons iPhones stolen and beaten, before you start to react. What shames me as a thinking human being, is that it had to get this far before people started to think.

Heck, most people are not even thinking yet.

What do people need? Gunfire in their own hallway?

Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny:
Syrian Invasion: Total War?

So a re-enactment of the Battle of Adrianople?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Adrianople

Hmm, I had read the opposite? That Austria was starting to work on closing the borders down. And from what I read Hungary is stepping it up as well in terms of how they deal with the invaders. Was quite happy to hear that they collected a group of about 100 hundred syrians and brought them back to camp a few hours after they had run away.

Anybody who supports this mass immigration is only going to encourage more immigrants to attempt the journey and end up dying on the way.

Britain is doing the right thing by only allowing controlled immigration from the actual refugee camps.

Most of those crossing over Europe are also clearly young men seeking economic opportunities. If they were fleeing war, why are so few of them women or children?

It's both. Most refugees seeking asylum in Western countries are also economic migrants interested in living out most, if not all of their lives in their destination.

As I have mentioned in the past, my parents were such.

Originally Posted by Montmorency:
It's both. Most refugees seeking asylum in Western countries are also economic migrants interested in living out most, if not all of their lives in their destination.

As I have mentioned in the past, my parents were such.

I don't intend to cause any insult, but there are legal ways for that.

Originally Posted by :
I don't intend to cause any insult, but there are legal ways for that.

And they were used. The Soviet Union parted with its subjects only reluctantly, after all. In that case, the legal route was expedient compared to the alternative.

"the Africans" : I didn't know Syria and Iraq were in Africa.

About Migrants: Syrian and Iraqis are Refugees, which is a status internationally recognised by signed treaties. I know EU only respected treaties when it fits, but next time we have a civil war in Europe, it might be handy to keep it.

"Most of those crossing over Europe are also clearly young men seeking economic opportunities"
Attachment 16321
This is a photograph of the Kurdish town of Kobani/Kobane, from which the Kurdi family fled. According to David Davies, the Conservative MP for Monmouth, "nobody is actually fleeing because of war, everyone is taking an economic decision."

"If they were fleeing war, why are so few of them women or children?" You just don't want to see them.
There they are:
https://www.facebook.com/31284017213...type=1&theater

I love the people with BUT (as in it is wrong to do BUT...).

Originally Posted by Brenus:
"the Africans" : I didn't know Syria and Iraq were in Africa.

About Migrants: Syrian and Iraqis are Refugees, which is a status internationally recognised by signed treaties. I know EU only respected treaties when it fits, but next time we have a civil war in Europe, it might be handy to keep it.

"Most of those crossing over Europe are also clearly young men seeking economic opportunities"
Attachment 16321
This is a photograph of the Kurdish town of Kobani/Kobane, from which the Kurdi family fled. According to David Davies, the Conservative MP for Monmouth, "nobody is actually fleeing because of war, everyone is taking an economic decision."

"If they were fleeing war, why are so few of them women or children?" You just don't want to see them.
There they are:
https://www.facebook.com/31284017213...type=1&theater

I love the people with BUT (as in it is wrong to do BUT...).

Ah, hang on, Kobane is within the region of Western Kurdistan or "Rojava". Yes, much of the city was destroyed but currently it's relatively safe and is being rebuilt according to reports. It's certainly much safer that crossing the Med in a rickety boat. The man who lost his wife and children went back to Kobane and he has openly said they wanted to start a new, better, life in Europe.

As much as he suffered a tragedy Kad is fundamentally right that his family were not refugees, they were migrants, and they should not have been encouraged to enter the EU illegally.

For those living in refugee camps in countries like Turkey and Jordan there are legal avenues available to apply for a relocation to Europe, and there are also legal avenues for people to apply as immigrants.

What these people from the Levant and Africa are doing is illegally crossing into Europe, and targeting specific countries, in order to create a problem. They know that we won't let thousands of people freeze to death so they are travel to Germany and Sweden and force those countries to house them.

This is, fundamentally, what the Germanic peoples did during the Great Migration - faced with the Huns and falling crop yields due to poor weather they crossed the Roman frontier in their thousands in order to put the Limes between them and their problems, but once they were within the Empire they were too many of the Romans to deal with and within a century they broke the back of the Empire.

Brenus, your picture of one child isn't exactly an argument against my point that most of these "refugees" are young men.

Same goes for the picture of Kobane and the story of a single family.

Perfect place for refugees, Mekka. http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/ima...-25180244.html

Yes that are all empty tents.

First pic, closer look http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven....html#comments

I mean wtf

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr:
Brenus, your picture of one child isn't exactly an argument against my point that most of these "refugees" are young men.

And why would your point be any more valid than the picture? Have you shown any reliable proof for your point?
I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but if you want to raise your point above that of someone else, back it up accordingly.

A link like this for example: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...)_YB15_III.png

The problem with this though, is that it throws them all together and does not just focus on the ones fleeing from middle eastern wars. I would think there are a lot of males from poor African countries, but their economic incentives should not distract from the actual problems of war in the middle east.

Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
72% of the refugees are males. Instead of fighting for their homes, they abandoned their families and fled to Germany, passing over 15 non waring countries.

The 2nd greatest nation in continental Europe is about to be overrun by spineless man children whom want nothing more than to consume.

Not with a bang, but a whimper.

In fairness, the married ones plan on gaining Asylum and then importing their families later - which has worked in the past in the EU.

"This is, fundamentally, what the Germanic peoples did during the Great Migration - faced with the Huns and falling crop yields due to poor weather they crossed the Roman frontier in their thousands in order to put the Limes between them and their problems, but once they were within the Empire they were too many of the Romans to deal with and within a century they broke the back of the Empire." Hmmm, valid point. However, I do not remember studying how the Romans went to rescue the Germans from their Huns tyrants without really asking them, telling them they will become Roman Citizens, then blaming the Germans to come in Rome. I could as well underline that the Roman did not destroy the Germanic Armies which could have defeated the Huns, morally in humiliating the Germans (why to defend a Germany when there is none) and building a weak Germanic Army with not country to defend and only auxiliaries who just have to obey the Romans who never really rebuilt the aqueducts and the roads, markets and farms they destroyed in the process of Romanisation.

Instead of fighting for their homes, they abandoned their families and fled to Germany, passing over 15 non waring countries. Ah, yes, of course, the coward argument. Humm, as mentionned by Calicvla, Kobane was defended by the Kurds and retaken by the Kurds. And, ooops, the Kurds are bombed by the Turks without a whimper of warning from the Romans, err, NATO, US and EU. So, if I am a Pershmerga, I will start to wonder why to stay where killing my family and relatives season is open.
Who is to blame for the lack of fighting spirit of the Iraqis Army? The ones who trained them. We destroy their country then we blame them they don't fight for it.
Because of course, all these people are risking their live to have more ketchup on their burgers. And that why they try "crossing the Med in a rickety boat.". Your really think that a father will risk the life of his children and his wife just to get a better life, in the economic sense? He wanted a life. Why to deny him the same family values we have and give him his due?
Before our well prepared and beautifully planned invasion of Iraq, he wouldn't have to do so.

Originally Posted by Brenus:
Hmmm, valid point. However, I do not remember studying how the Romans went to rescue the Germans from their Huns tyrants without really asking them, telling them they will become Roman Citizens, then blaming the Germans to come in Rome. I could as well underline that the Roman did not destroy the Germanic Armies which could have defeated the Huns, morally in humiliating the Germans (why to defend a Germany when there is none) and building a weak Germanic Army with not country to defend and only auxiliaries who just have to obey the Romans who never really rebuilt the aqueducts and the roads, markets and farms they destroyed in the process of Romanisation.

The point is not that that these people are unjustified in seeking a new life, the point is that we need to recognise that A: they are not all genuine refugees and B: if they keep coming they can break the countries they settle in. This isn't like the Post-War period when we invited people from our former colonies to come work in our fields or drive our buses - and that was a difficult enough adjustment for people at the time.

Many of these Syrians, particularly young men, will be former fighters, up to and including IS Jihadists. This is not a flock of frightened sheep, these are national migrations and we have already seen them break our borders. They broke out of Macedonia and Hungary, refused to register there, forced their way to Austria and now they will trek across Austria to Germany.

Like any large group of people their passage alone will cause disruption and damage to the areas they pass through, probably hundreds of thousands of Euro's worth - remember we haven't had a full harvest yet, and they will cross fields and ruin crops.

Accommodation of Syrian refugees reflects European values, but at the same time contradicts European interests.

I blame Saint Ronald Reagan.
His defeat of Communism prevented the West from unlocking "The End of History" achievement.
Unfortunately, history continues and the mass migration of populations remains with us :stare:

Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny:
I blame Saint Ronald Reagan.
His defeat of Communism prevented the West from unlocking "The End of History" achievement.
Unfortunately, history continues and the mass migration of populations remains with us :stare:

Europe has every necessary tool to block this migration. Every tool with the exception of the will to do it. If this backfires, Europe has only herself to blame.

Originally Posted by rvg:
Accommodation of Syrian refugees reflects European values, but at the same time contradicts European interests.

Originally Posted by rvg:
Europe has every necessary tool to block this migration. Every tool with the exception of the will to do it. If this backfires, Europe has only herself to blame.

This.

I have to hand it to you RVG, you put so many thoughts in a factual and easy to comprehend way... Keep it up like that and I will even remove your moronic comment from my signature...

Originally Posted by Strike For The South:
72% of the refugees are males. Instead of fighting for their homes, they abandoned their families and fled to Germany, passing over 15 non waring countries.

The 2nd greatest nation in continental Europe is about to be overrun by spineless man children whom want nothing more than to consume.

Not with a bang, but a whimper.

Careful with the words there.
As I said, that is the total number of asylum applicants, not just refugees from the Middle East.
Even I know that there are young African men who want to come here to become football players an millionaires.
These guys (who I agree do not qualify for asylum) are in there as well and would have to be removed from the statistics to be able to make a valid point about Syrian, Afghan and Iraqi refugees.

But even then one could also google for a second instead of just criticizing things after a superficial read and making assumptions that may not apply. UNHCR for example gives reasons why men or boys in particular may be more likely to flee from a conflict zone: http://www.unhcr.org/pages/4a6872836.html

Originally Posted by :
Adult men and boys are often neglected in discussions of forced displacement, and yet they have particular needs and are confronted with specific threats to their life and liberty. Males are often most directly affected by the armed conflicts which provoke refugee movements. They are at risk of forced recruitment into armies and militia groups

Of course we can demand that they should resist and get killed at the hands of those militia instead, but then why fake concern about them dying in the Mediterranean? Or maybe we could tell them to just join Al Queda or their local warlord's militia instead of fighting them or fleeing from them. That way they are safe until they have to try to kill us. Oh right, they can also go to a dictatorship or stay in countries where they barely get enough food not to starve. What honest person wouldn't like to stay in the worst place possible?

Originally Posted by Husar:
Careful with the words there.
As I said, that is the total number of asylum applicants, not just refugees from the Middle East.
Even I know that there are young African men who want to come here to become football players an millionaires.
These guys (who I agree do not qualify for asylum) are in there as well and would have to be removed from the statistics to be able to make a valid point about Syrian, Afghan and Iraqi refugees.

But even then one could also google for a second instead of just criticizing things after a superficial read and making assumptions that may not apply. UNHCR for example gives reasons why men or boys in particular may be more likely to flee from a conflict zone: http://www.unhcr.org/pages/4a6872836.html



Of course we can demand that they should resist and get killed at the hands of those militia instead, but then why fake concern about them dying in the Mediterranean? Or maybe we could tell them to just join Al Queda or their local warlord's militia instead of fighting them or fleeing from them. That way they are safe until they have to try to kill us. Oh right, they can also go to a dictatorship or stay in countries where they barely get enough food not to starve. What honest person wouldn't like to stay in the worst place possible?

*raises his hand*

*jumps up and down in the school bench*

I KNOW THIS ONE: It's because of a patriarchate society, isn't it???



YEY, not only did I score!! I did it on the winning side!!

Denmark has effective closed its border with Germany: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34203366

Why?

Because they want to get to Sweden.

first the bullying of Italy, then the brutalising of Greece, now this. The EU is falling apart.