New 5th elector of Bavaria
On the subject of Edict 4:12, I support the terms of peace.
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New 5th elector of Bavaria
On the subject of Edict 4:12, I support the terms of peace.
The second Elector of Swabia stands up, lookign angry
On edict 1.12 , I say it is completley useless, why you ask? Because Milan and Venice shall never keep to peace, and if we do not attack, then they will siege our cities! They shall never keep to themselevs, and most of you know that the pope will always go afte rus, why? because he hates the Holy Roman Empire! Thats why! He can't keep prmomises! He is as corrupt as a rotten apple! They will burn,pillage and plunder when we let pur guard down, so I say we shoot full steam ahead with a attack on Sardina or Corisca, Peace is not even in the dictionary!!! THE POPE IS CORRUPT!
the Elector is forced down by his fellow Swabian electors, his face red and spit over him, and mutters furiously to his fellow electors before being quiet
Duke Leopold stands up again a grave expression on his face:
I have to speak in front of this Assembly once again to vent my anger over the most recent decisions of our beloved Emperor Heinreich. Weren't you the one that had offered an oath before this Diet that you would allocate settlements equally among all your servants? Yet you defy your own words once again by your unjust actions! How many fiefs does the esteemend House of Bavaria control now? Five, if I'm correct, with Bologna and Milan including some of our most prosperous and populated towns. The House of Franconia owns three fiefs and the House of Swabia four! Why does this give me the distinct impression that Emperor Heinrich shuns the House of Austria by denying them new lands. Have we not given our share of money to grease the machines of war responsible for winning the recent victories? We have even shed our own blood in recent battles!
I don't envy the other Houses their possesions, but I wonder why the Emperor sees it fit to hog on two valuable Italian provinces of which at least one could be given to our care. We, as the House of Austria have demanded this since the very first Diet, yet you keep on denying us our rights!
I know that in the recent Diet my Charter Amendment has not been seconded by the other Houses. But if this goes on I will push for a change of our Charter again. I want the Dukes of the other Houses to consider that things might not always go their way and they may end up being on the loosing side of the current bargain.
I will not tolerate this disrespect shown by the Emperor to the House of Austria. If this situation is not redeemed you might find our support for Imperial matters somewhat lacking in the future!
Indignantly Duke Leopold takes his seat again, shooting angry glances at the assembled nobles.
Chancellor Sigismund rises to his feet.
You remind me of someone, Duke Leopold. I remember now, his name was Dietrich. Ah, Dietrich was not happy with the Kasier, and we all know what happened to him.
May I remind you that you have not done anything to warrant a futher settlement. You require an exhorbatent ammount of militia in order to defend Vienna against paltry Venetians.
Chancellor Sigismund resumes his seat.
"Mein Kaiser, fellow Electors. I support our Prinz Henrys idea to move himself in to the Italian theatre. Also i think we should avoid excommunication for now,since it could be our end. What this discussion is lacking is aiming our thoughts on the front we can do something. Poland needs to be defeated and i would specially like to hear suggestions from House of Franconia how to do that,since it seems that my Edict 4.6 "Reich sieges Magdeburg immediately,but do not assault the castle. Again,lets decide where to fight and not give the decision to Polish. isnt garnering much of support.I would like ask that someone starts then making better suggestions.
Third Swabian lector sits down looking mildly irritated.
Prinz Henry: Electors, a reminder that there is now less than 24 hours before voting begins (11am Sunday, UK time). Please make sure all edicts or charter ammendments that you support have two seconders or they will not be put to the vote. The list of edicts and their seconders is here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...92&postcount=1
Please explicitly say "I second Edict 4.x" if that's what you are doing.
Third Elector of Swabia asks again permission to speak.
"My apologies.I forgot to say something.I support Charter Ammendment 4.1.Thank you."
Duke Leopold stands again and faces Sigismund der Stoltze.
I don't remember asking for your oppinion on this matter, mein Kanzler, my concerns were rather addressed at Emperor Heinreich. Since you have taken the time to answer me, I will take the time to addres your concerns.
First I want to remind you that I only follow the orders given to me and that in fact you and your predecessor are solely responsible that my part in the recent conquests has been smaller than that of other generals. I have proven in recent battles that I am well capable of defeating my foes.
Your pun regarding the Militia under my control is once again your responsibilty, because as Chancellor it is solely your responsibilty which troops and how much you assign me for the defense of my city.
Secondly you ask what part the House of Austria has taken in the recent conquests and is it not fact that with approximately 2000 florins per city generated within my realm this is the highest average any House can show. Money is indeed necessary to wage war and we contribue not too little of it to the Imperial treasury.
While you mention Dietrich von Saxony. His recent absence is truly unfortunate. If the Reich casts into exile all of his Dukes that don't agree with the current agenda, I fear for the future of our Reich!
Leopold sits again, casting a glance to Emperor Heinrich, awaiting his response on the matter.
5th Elector of Austria
Honorable Members... I beg listen up... I belive i see a solution out of this... if we follow edict 4.6 as it is... we can gather up a castle in the Empire... this castle can therefore be alloctated imediatly to House Austria... bringing it up to force with the other houses... i therefore second edict 4.6 and wish to propose an edict unto itself
I propose that Edict 4.14 be made and it states as such... Pending the passege of Edict 4.6 and/or succesful capture of Castle Magdeburg it shall pass into possession of House Austria... by-passing the waiting time of the distribution of lands.
I pray that House Austria can gain the support needed here by the benevolant counsil memebers to pass this Edict 4.14 into law and keep the Empire from colapsing with Austrian Support
Sits in hope that he will not be seen as a radical nationalist
Kaiser Heinrich:
Duke Leopold, I suggest that you are being the rather selfish one in this matter. I have no agenda against Austria, as I belong to no house. It is simply the way the dice has been rolled.
I recall that there were mumblings when, in the midterm of my reign as Chancellor, I had not allocated anything to Austria. I had full intentions to give Prague to your noble house, except for the fact that you had chosen to wait to make your assault. I cannot give that which is not mine.
And now, you dare to suggest that I have been engineering the lands we take solely because I have some mysterious grudge or agenda against Austria. This is preposterous. Our recent efforts against Milan and Venice have been our main thrusts because they threaten the Reich. Tell me, would you have our Italian territories snatched from our grasp just so that Mighty Austria could finally get some glory?
Right now we are being pushed to the limit in lands that does not concern your house. There is nothing that any of us can do about it, so I suggest that you pipe down and hope for a speedy resolution of these hostilities for the good of the entire Reich. In the meantime, I expect you to be busy in the near future by having a hand in the conquest of some Polish territories.
Good day everyone, I shall respond to the so far proposed motions later.
The 2nd Elector of Austria rises slowly
Kaiser Heinrich, My Prinz,
I appeal to both of you as gentlemen and scholars...House Austria must start to believe something is amiss if we do not receive our fair allotment of Provinces.
I appeal to you both, grant Austria fair allocation of settlements at the earliest convenience. I would never think this would need to be drafted into an edict...but if it must I will begin a private lobby campaign in earnest.
Are we being punished for some issue that has not been discussed?
Glancing at Duke Leopold, the 2nd Elector raises and eyebrow in concern.
Duke Leopold rises again.
I don't see anywhere in our charter where it suggests that land should only be given to the House that was most active in its conquest. And although the charter states that the general directions of expansions of our Houses are East, West, North and South, we had a discussion in our very first Diet session that this should not be followed blindly. Right now we have the exact situation described in the first discussions, where we're only expanding in one direction, that being south. I don't see why Austria should not get its share of the conquests made by the Reich, just because our recent conquests don't lie in the East. If you have to stick to your geographical preferance you could for example have gifted Bologna, the eastermost city on the Italian peninsula to my House, yet for reasons that elude me you have not done so.
I also see no reason why any settlement given to my control should be lost. Have I not shown recently that I'm capable of defending my possessions?
Once again you bring up Polish lands, while I have shown no desire for them in the past and will not show in the future. They are deserted lands, cut off from any trade. Why don't you set up your lands in their chilly castles instead of reaping the riches of some of the most prosperous and populated cities under our control. I only demand that Austria receive a fair share of those possesions.
Long have I endured the neglect we have received from you, mein Kaiser, but I will not tolerate it any longer. I see my fair complaints fall on deaf ears within this Assembly. I see no reason to attend any longer!
Leopold casts a last furious glance towards the Kaiser and the Chancellor, before leaving the Diet chambers accompanied by a fair share of the followers of the House of Austria.
Kaiser Heinrich:
You want fair allocation of settlements? First of all, the settlements that were captured this term have nothing to do with Austria. Since when are you concerned with Dijon and Western Italy?
I will not drop everything and abandon our campaign in Italy just to satisfy one house that cares only about its own advancement and not the good of the entire Reich in general.
Duke Leopold turns around after the swift response of the Kaiser for a last rebuttal:
Where do you take the notion that giving Austria its share of the Italian riches would spell disaster for our Italain camapaign, where!?
And the personal concern of Austria as always been everywhere the Reich stretches, be it East, North, South or West!
Enraged he finally storms off.
5th Elector of Austria
hasnt left with the Duke
Mein Kaiser... Respectfully If this Empire is drawn to its fullist extent as you say... then why have we continued to win battles in Italy?... i have to say that though my fellow Austrians will not go so far as to support my Edict to expand House Austria Further north... It is only so fair to be alocated SOME lands... we have... generaly... the richest town in Germany... but if that is eclipsed by Italian possesions... then what power does House Austria posses to Help the continuing of the Reich?... to allow all houses to contiune to support ANY wars then House Austria MUST be given more lands... where-ever they be taken north south east or west...
also it is fair to notice that the wars thus entered can only conquer terriotrys not given to House Austria... if these wars thus entered unbalance the Empire... then are they truly the best wars to be under-taken?
3rd Elector of Austria stands
I will not be foolish like my fellow Austrian Duke Leopold, storming off in a fit of rage when things need to be resovled in the diet.
On a second notion, I think at the moment, Austria's land grab is less important to me then protecting the good of the Riech, and getting peace and or destroying out enemies to make a richer profit and a bigger kingdom.
When the time comes Kaiser Henrich will give us our dues, it is only fair, and if he then holds them from us, there shall be movement.
Third Swabian elector takes the stand witha scroll on his hand:
"Gott in Himmel!!
What is this that i see here in Imperial Diet? Noble Lords arguing about land when the Reich is at war!"
Swabian Elector throws the scroll on the ground before the Diet.
"We are at war with Poland and this Diet doesnt seem to be concerned about that at all! We have plenty of time to fight about who gets and what, but you cant eat a wildboar before its speared.Now Electors of the Reich,start suggesting plans about the Polish campaigns or start seconding my plan. What kind of council are we if we dont give any orders to Imperial forces when we are at war?!"
Swabian elector takes his place and leaves the opened scroll on the ground.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...92&postcount=1
5th Elector of Bavaria Rises Slowly
Mein Kiser and humble nobles of the Reich. This internal struggle for more lands should be stopped immediatly. We are fighting amongst our selves when we should be concentrating on our bordering factions. Looks at 5th elector of Austria
So I say this to Austria patience is a virtue. You will have lands in due time but you must remember that the Reich cannot afford to stretch itself too thin and cause our borders to be less defended. Thus arguing such points with his majesty will not help your situtation but surely drive thee into misfortune. Your time will come, Austria, when you have earned your great victory and all of the Reich will praise the glory that Austria has brough upon our great faction. Not only our faction but all of christdom will be awed and amazed at such a victory. For this you will receive your lands. With this said I must humbly ask you to be more patient in this matter and desist from presistent bickering.
Turns and Looks at Kizer Heinrich
I shall turn to my page and declare that 5th Elector of Bavaria will second Edict 4:13. The basis for my decision is the worry of our low standing with his Holiness the pope. The more preists we create the better our chances that one of ours becomes elected which will give us a better advantage over the rest of the other factions.
5th elector sits, parched
5th Elector of Austria
I do not see as to why you are blaming... or even inciting that what i say is only said by me. Just today my most estemmed Duke has left this Diet in a fit of rage...
Also I have offerd a solution to this problem... and to a problem where Austria has more chances of helping... Poland... I have A. supported an edict agianst Poland and B. proposed an Edict to allocate the Castle Magdeburg to House Austria once taken... though you over look this I see...
and my patience is not the only one being tried... through differant means nearly all the Electors of Austria have been "tried" in their patience...Quote:
I propose that Edict 4.14 be made and it states as such... Pending the passege of Edict 4.6 and/or succesful capture of Castle Magdeburg it shall pass into possession of House Austria... by-passing the waiting time of the distribution of lands.
Also it does seem that this war in Italy has been pressed single handedly by Bavarian and Swabian Electors for the gain of their respected countrys... I have no problem with the gain of one nations... so long as one is not left behind in the act...
I would like to remind the Diet that Edicts giving possession of provinces to specific houses are in violation of the Imperial Charter. In order for these Edicts to be valid, a Charter Amendment must first pass by a 2/3 majority. Surely you all remember that just such a Charter Amendment was proposed during the last Diet session and it failed to even receive two seconds.
5th Elector of Austria
I will admit that even I... new to the Diet... Knew this before i proposed this Edict... but I proposed it in effect... to end any more piontless debate on the issue of Land... if it is unwilling to be supported... i will withdrawl my statment of Edict 4.14... and offer my apologies to the Diet...
It seemed that it is a usable option to follow and end two problems with one stone persay... and with it i ment not to violate the Charter... but to end a disagreement which has torn this Diet apart...
Excuse me honorable members for knowingly violating this Charter...
Bows
Seemingly irritated third Swabian Elector stands up and speaks:
"Since my fellow Electors seem to be completely un intrested about the war with Poland,God knows why! I propose Edict 4.15 "The Reich sieges Breslau as soon as possible"
On more personal note.I think we should take it and give it to Austrians so they would shut up. Maybe some Austrian captain could take the city,since the garrison of the Praha should be more then enough powerfull to defeat the garrioson of Breslau.Also turning Breslau into a castle would end the Austrian recruiting problems.
The Swabian Elector sits back on his place.
Fredericus von Hamburg, having until now been observing the deliberations quietly, finally stands.
Oh, how I wish we could have just one Diet session where the Austrians didn't spend the entire time complaining about something.
Unlike these Austrians, I recognize that Franconia has little claim to lands in Italy. Our soldiers have in recent years primarily had the task of protecting the north, including the capital where this Diet meets, while the majority of the Reich's armies were engaged in the south. It is not a glorious task, but it is necessary. I only wish some of the other houses *looks at largely empty Austrian section* had more of a sense of duty to the Reich, and put a little less effort in their own self-interest.
But that is enough of that. I have been following the deliberations about Italy very closely, and I am glad that it appears that we will make an effort to avoid excommunication. In the north, we have few troops tasked with defending large areas against many potential enemies. It is best to keep those enemies just that, potential. Still, Poland has made a mistake. It would seem that their frontier is defended very poorly. They certainly have large armies, but they're probably in the east, and there would be a delay until they're recalled.
I am not going to burden the Chancellor with further edicts, I trust he will act logically. To do so would be to strike Poland immediately while they are unprepared, and reinforce for the eventual Polish response.
Poland does need to be taught a lesson, valient sir. I agree we should show the empire's might and take Breslau but do we have the capabilities to defend our other places as well. I think we should stabalize our lands and build a strong defensive position against Milan and Venice. Once this is put forth I will support your edict.
5th Elector of Austria
though now at some-what of a dissadvantge... i will say that Poland is the place for new and further expansion... and therefore i support Edict 4.15
i would also like to state that we of House Austria always have the Good of the Riech in mind... but also the good of our House in mind to
The fifth Elector of Franconia stands and faces Fredericus
While I agree with you that we have little claim to Italy, and should consider duty above matters of personal gain and honor, I suspect perhaps you are targeting the wrong audience.
I find it deeply troubling that the Kaiser is still unable to admit what grave mistakes he has made.
It is bad enough that he has sent our Duke, a skilled warrior, and according to the Kaiser himself, "the only general who knows how to use cavalry in a siege", into an exile, self-imposed or not.
But even worse than that, by disregarding his advice and warnings, he is directly at fault for the war with Poland. Had he not ordered an army through Polish territory, we might still be allies.
Perhaps now would be a good time to make amends. Perhaps the Kaiser could win back the trust of Duke Dietrich, and put this skilled general to work ending the war he tried to avoid in the first place.
Compared to the Kaiser's disregard for his duty to the Reich, all Austria is guilty of is a moderate amount of greed. Trifles, by comparison.
As for the Second Elector of Swabia, I suggest he take another look at edict 4.12. It is far from a peace treaty, as you seem to believe. I had hoped the nobles of the land were better educated, but perhaps Swabia has practicing too much with the sword, and too little with a pen lately.
We are not attempting a peace, we are making our enemies look bad! If this edict is followed, we will achieve one or more of the following:
- A carte blanche from the Pope to attack Venice
- A carte blanche from the Pope to attack Milan
- Support from the rest of Europe against the Pope.
We are forcing the Pope into a battle he can not win. Either he will be forced to give us his blessing in eradicating two of his puppet states, or he will be exposed as the corrupt charlatan he is, for all of Europe to see!
How is this not in our interests? How could we possibly not gain from this?
Of course, neither Milan nor Venice will accept our "ceasefire". They will see our passivity as a weakness, and attack. And then, my lord, we will be in an excellent position to not just strike back, but eradicate them completely, and do so without fear of excommunication!
5th elector of Bavaria with fist in the air
Here! Here! I believe the 5th elector of Franconia is correct. Let us provoke an attack and put the pope in a position to excuminicate the dogs for their heretical war against us. This will sureley raise our standing with the pope when we destroy them. This will also allow us to create a strong defensive position and concentrate on Poland.
Sits, nodding in approval at the 5th elector of Franconia
bewarned my fellows... this may back-fire... as i understand the Reichs favor with the pope is low... so if they attack us... we may not take a blow to our favor... but mayn't they just recive the pope's approval?...
if he (pope) takes a stand agianst us... as he has before... this may backfire and be very costly... if not... it may be the most succesfull campiagn yet planned
I do not wish to be seen as a person agianst wars... i support them fully... and anyway to gain lands for the Reich is better than a loss... and if it was an Edict... i would support it... but in the past the pope has not favored our actions... so be careful in impliminting this plan...
O, Fith Elector of Franconia, I was talking of the fifth Bavarian Elector, who supported terms of peace, not of the orginal peace. but I say this again- No country will keep to a reaty or Cease Fire, there all hungry dogs!
Milan and Venice ae simple Pets of the Pope.
The pope hates us.
France and England ignore us, and would attack if they got chance
And the rest just want some of our empire!
I say we burn,pillage and plunder at least one nation to teach everyone a lesson! As my fellow Swabian Elector has pointed out countless times, if we attack Poland and destroy them, then i am certian that the rest shall back off!
SO i propose-
Edict 1.16- We atack and destroy at least one European nation in the next 10 years
This shall be a package of fear to our enemies, detroying one nation shall give us more land,food and people, and lead us down our road to a higher victory!
5th Elector of Bavaria
I would second edict 1:16 provided that it does not lead to excommunication and that we attack the faction with the least amount of land. We cannot afford to be excommunicated by his holiness as it will cause great unrest among our lands. So i am suggesting we fortify our defensive postion in northern italy. Target Braslau in the interm and also try to provoke milan or venice into being excommunicated. This i believe will be the best course of action.