Out of character thread IV

As TC said, we're not even in Anatolia yet, so there's time to consider targets of opportunity. My main goal is to get across the Hellespont and to skedaddle out of Byzantine territory before we piss them off. Oh and get the cav back to the Crusade. . .my fingers are crossed on that one.

Something to consider about outposts is that if we want to keep them rather than just sacking and rearming, it might be wise to leave an avatar in them to command the garrison. Otherwise we're at the mercy of auto-calc which doesn't work out well for defending settlements.

Edit: I would also prefer seizing castles rather than cities. They have less unrest issues, have better defenses and would produce or reinforce units the Crusade already has.

I've though of a way we can spice up the PBM a bit. Maybe we could give Dukes the right to determine where "elite" units go. For instance, supposing Franconia wanted exclusive access to trebuchets. Venice, which is a Bavarian city, is the only settlement in the Reich that can construct them. Duke Dietrich would then negotiate with Duke Otto, and perhaps offer a unit that Bavaria cannot access. This would help display fragmentation without causing delays or extra bother for the Chancellor.

Ignoramus: that proposal is very suitable for a Constitutional Ammendment; the next Diet session is coming soonish so you could try to draft one to propose. You'd have to define elite, but it should be fairly straightforward. I'm not sure if I personally would support it or not, but it is the kind of thing the set up of the game allows us to decide in character.

Ok, econ. I was thinking of units like Trebuchets, Halberd and Pike Militia, Pavise Crossbowmen, and maybe Dismounted Feudal Knights. Later on we could include Zweilanders, Forlorne Hope etc.

By the way, your English AAR is very interesting. I look forward to reading more of it.

I might consider doing one, but I find it difficult to spend the time.

Definitely include DFK as elites, I think they are great. You can list the elites in the prospective Constitutional Amendment when the time comes.

I guess that this is Heinrich coming out in me, but I am against this Constitutional amendment. It was always the case in WotS and KotR that the Chancellor would have complete say in regards to all military matters. I know that historical army composition has always been in place, but it seems like slowly, power has ebbed away from the Chancellor.

First, there were the Household Armies, which Heinrich was against for obvious reasons. But now there will be the elite unit issue which will be taken away from the Chancellor as well.

The title (King of the Romans) implies that the executive position, be it the Emperor or the Chancellor, will have more power and a more centralized influence in this game than our previous PBM. However, ever since the start, this has slowly not been the case. I believe that if this trend continues that the position of Chancellor will become a logistical nightmare and it will be a burden more than anything else. We may as well just call it "The Will of the Diet."

Yes, on reflection, I agree with you GH. I fear this would slow the game down for relatively little benefit. If such an ammendment were passed, I'd want it to be like Household Armies - the Dukes set policy in the full Diet sessions and then the Chancellor implements during the game turns. Having the Chancellor stop play while Dukes horse trade would slow the game to a crawl.

Well, I disagree about the Household armies, I think they were necessary for out of character reasons, to help keep people involved and give some substance to the Idea of households. Without them the households idea would be rather dull, limited to bickering over which lands they get, the household armies allow for more game level interaction for more people. It was always my thought that once the riech could afford it we would build a 'Kaiser's personal army' and 'Chancellors personal army'. Restoring some of the "lost power" GH was talking about.

I do agree though that personal control of the eliets would be a nightmare.

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Originally Posted by Stuperman

Well, I disagree about the Household armies...

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Don't get me wrong, I support Household armies. I was the one who proposed them afterall, ~:pimp:. I was just saying I like the way we have set implemented them so that they don't slowdown the game. Dukes give standing orders at each full Diet - the Chancellor executes these as best he can. It's purely at his discretion whether he responds to any alerations or backseat driving from the Dukes. I'd like any further decentralisation to keep to this principle of not slowing the game down.

I was fooling around with paint and came up with this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://img403.imageshack.us/img403/...duchiesio4.jpg

Swabia = Green
Franconia = Blue
Austria = Purple
Bavaria = Red
Imperial remains Black

I know the distribution will probably change soon, but I think it's a good way to visualize the Duchies and the Empire as a whole.

:gah: We have been invaded by France, Milan, England and Byzantium! :gah:

Nice work though. Except I can't quite see whether Zagreb is Imperial or not (but then even on a non modified strat map its hard to tell...too thin.)

There are only so many colors in the rainbow. . .

Zagreb is clearly purple, are you thinking of Venice (Imperial) or Ragusa (Venetian)?

Edit: Very good story, GH and TC. . .now I very much want Otterbach to be Pope, even though she's a bit down the list. . .

I feel sort of bad that Otto gave Milan to Conrad now.

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I feel sort of bad that Otto gave Milan to Conrad now.

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Don't. Conrad's parentage isn't the sort of thing he wants known, at least not yet.

Brilliant writing, GH and TC. :bow: When Conrad's parentage was revealed, you could have knocked me down with a feather, as they say.

I agree with GH,

Further legislation is not a preference for me. I think the household armies were the correct step, but any further steps would detract from an inherently centralised historical system...plus it has to make sense in reality.

edit: Yes the plot thickens considerably...I could not help thinking of The Empire Strikes Back :)

schoooo schiiiiii

James Earl Jones voice:

"I am your father Conrad!!!"

Luke’s voice:

"Nooooooo"

Conrad then proceeds to throw himself off the battlements. Landing in a cart full of hay he is whisked somewhere safe to be nurtured by his long lost sister...hey...now that is an idea...maybe someone is in drag and really a girl and Conrad's sister?? :)

@econ sorry, I ment I disagree with GH, he sounded like he didn;t like them.

again I'll push the Idea of a Royal army under the command of the Kaiser at all times (he could give it up if he so chose), it'd help restore some royal power that has been degraded in some peoples view. It also wouldn't be a bad cover story for a probably much needed 2nd army in the east after the crusade progresses a bit.

edit: Great Story guys, Interesting twist!

We really don't need a royal army at this point since the Kaiser is with the Crusade for the foreseeable future. Perhaps once the Kaiser is again in the Empire you could propose something.

Having thought more about GH and TC's story, I think there's a little known by-law in the Charter that says "Every Avatar shall have a dysfunctional relationship with their father. If a loving relationship is needed, the Diet must give permission with a 2/3 vote." :laugh4:

Edit:

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Originally Posted by AussieGiant

Maybe someone is in drag and really a girl and Conrad's sister?? :)

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Well, cross dressing is in the family tree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OverKnight

We really don't need a royal army at this point since the Kaiser is with the Crusade for the foreseeable future. Perhaps once the Kaiser is again in the Empire you could propose something.

Having thought more about GH and TC's story, I think there's a little known by-law in the Charter that says "Every Avatar shall have a dysfunctional relationship with their father. If a loving relationship is needed, the Diet must give permission with a 2/3 vote." :laugh4:

Edit:



Well, cross dressing is in the family tree.

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There you go!!

I like it...surely that's a plot just waiting to happen :inquisitive:

Why for some reason do I think Otterbach is Conrad's mother?

Let me refer you to this story:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...06&postcount=9

Yes, that's the one I thought of. It fits together with Otterbach avoiding Conrad but visiting often anyway.

A good continuation GH, the plot thickens. About the positioning of the stories in the Chronology, do you want them in the year listed at the beginning of the stories or do you have a different placement in mind?

This is also true for other authors, without a set date, much of the story placement, such as Max's conversion, is guesswork. I'd be open to corrections.

It's a shame that Otterbach failed to prosecute that Heretic, she's lost some piety and is out of the Preferati.

No, the chronology listed in the stories is fine. :yes:

-edit-

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It's a shame that Otterbach failed to prosecute that Heretic, she's lost some piety and is out of the Preferati.

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Well, we could always execute Operation: Heinrich's Revenge... just not with Conrad.

Our Cardinals are lumped together in the middle of the College.

6 - Herden
7 - von der Pfalz (higher piety than above, but secretly female)
8 - Otterbach (From 3 to 8, that's got to hurt, perhaps there are rumors?)

Heinrich's revenge would unfortunately carve through two HRE cardinals, something even our most bloody minded electors would not want to do. From my brief exposure to Papal elections, it seems that the College will not vote for a Cardinal from an excommed faction. So we'd have to kill ~7 Popes to empty the College enough where we could force our choice through. This does not include promotions into the College while the Papal culling is occuring.

Ugh.

I've put Conrad's story right before the battle against the Hungarians in 1170, which seems to fit.

Perhaps what we could do is just start voting for Cardinals that aren't Imperial even when our guys make the Preferati. Once Otterbach comes in, we throw all of our influence behind him. I think it should work.

- Cardinals always follow your orders and vote as you say, even if they're up for election but you decide to vote for another guy.

- They always vote as a bloc when controlled by a human player.

I'm 99% sure that both of the above are correct.

[QUOTE=GeneralHankerchief]Perhaps what we could do is just start voting for Cardinals that aren't Imperial even when our guys make the Preferati. Once Otterbach comes in, we throw all of our influence behind him. I think it should work.[QUOTE]

I think that could work if we elect a Pope from another faction and by giving our support then maybe we can get peace. Once we get in good relations then the next election we may have the support of other factions.
As long as we are excomm we will never be in a block of support.

We tried that twice. We didn't get reinstated, but our Pope-o-Meter did go up slightly. However, when Otterbach was in the preferati and we voted for her the Spanish Cardinal still won big.

I wonder if we had thrown our support behind him instead of Otterbach, combined with Heinrich's death, if we would have been reconciled.

You know I think from previous elections in SP that would help along with the faction leaders death. Being in the block that supports the winner helps the pope o meter. If we vote for the right Cardinal they may be more receptive to our peace offer??

If you are at war with the papal states, you can never be reconciled unless you get a ceasefire or elect your own cardinal.
Also, allies always vote for you unless they favor another ally with a preferati more (relations). They don't care about excommunication.

So yeah. We somehow need to get more allies (very unlikely) or buy cardinal votes (very expensive, ~30k, but regardless of vote number), or clean out the college. Assassins could help in some respect too. At the same time of course we could train more priests and train them intelligently - i.e. according to triggers.

An excerpt:

Code:

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;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents43a
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition not AtSea
          and AgentType = priest
          and not AgentType = heretic
          and TimeInRegion > 3
          and TimeSinceHeresy < 5 >= 8
          and PopulationHeretic < 5
          and ReligionShift > 8

    Affects Purifier  1  Chance  100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents43b
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition not AtSea
          and AgentType = priest
          and not AgentType = heretic
          and TimeInRegion > 5
          and TimeSinceReligion > 90 >= 10
          and PopulationOwnReligion > 95
          and ReligionShift > 8

    Affects Missionary  1  Chance  100
;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents37_conversion1
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition not AtSea
          and AgentType = priest
          and ReligionShift >= 7
          and TimeInRegion < 3
          and Trait StrongFaith < 1

    Affects StrongFaith  1  Chance  100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger agents37_conversion2
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition not AtSea
          and AgentType = priest
          and ReligionShift >= 8
          and TimeInRegion > 1
          and Trait StrongFaith >= 1

    Affects StrongFaith  1  Chance  50

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Those are the main priest piety traits. I.e. its best to have priests in regions that have less than 5 heresy but fairly low catholicism or fairly high catholicism (doesn't matter as much). Having priests in high heresy regions doesn't do anything but turn them heretic. And of course prosecuting heretics and witches...

that is a long way down the road. so the best way forward is give small bribe to the pope until we are high enough on the pope-o-meter, then ask for a ceasefire, then give land? or we can't even bribe the pope because of war?