King of the Romans OOC thread XI

Quote:

---

there is a point that things will get to be un-fun

---

And that point is where players start taking things personally. If you have a problem with Stig's comments, take it up with Stig offline and work it out.

Personally, if I had irritated my Duke enough that he wanted to do that, I'd start making alliances as quickly as possible with as wide a base as possible. If you need examples of how this happened in antiquity, the two Triumvirates of Rome are ideal examples of how individuals banded together to survive. But there are plenty more (the Conspiracy of 367/8 being underlings vs overlords, Alaric and Radagaisus invading Italy to avoid the Huns, etc).

Tamur,

Yes and I have tried to do all you have said with regards to correspondence and extra-house alliances. My posts on here are to discuss what the limit should be. The OOC thread has been used many times to discuss game balance issues and I believe my concerns fall into that category.

From an OOC perspective, I wouldn't see anything wrong with Ansehelm asking the chancellor to send Jan back to Franconia if he is on a good foot with the chancellor. Player movements are really at the chancellor's complete discretion.

FH:

I think your absolutely correct and I have no problem with that. But I am concerned about the possibility of legislation that will mandate avatar movement as a way to give Dukes more power. Or of banning counts from the Diet at the Duke's discretion.

If it is proposed, simply make sure it is voted down. You only need 1/3 of the votes to block an Amendment, so it should be easy to do if the legislation is bad.

TC:

Voting down legislation that increases Ducal power is proving to be a difficult thing. :laugh4:

Well, considering the fact that it would give Dukes power at the expense of counts, it might not be as easy to pass as you might think. It is unlikely to be a house CA and what the the Duke going to do to the count but strip him of his title before/after the vote?

The average count has 3 influence. The average Duke has 5. There are 4 Dukes and a lot more counts.

Of course some may be sympathetic to the duke as stewards or to remain counts, but if you rouse enough rabble, you can topple the vote.

FH:

True, but the "Franconian defection" aside, the counts have proven quite hesitant to limit the powers of their Dukes. For one thing, most counts want to become Dukes. A quick way to lose the heir to the Dukedom would be to deny the Duke increased power.

CA 11.4 was a perfect example of this. It increased Dukes at the expense of Counts because it limited the Counts' ability to get more influence. But, it passed.

So, I am hesitant to rely upon a "proletarian revolution" to save us. :laugh4:

11.4 limited the extra influence bonus from crusader counts and gave dukes 1 more influence.
Considering how few people are actually in Outremer, it is no surprise it passed.

True but it is an example of counts voting against their interest because of their dukes. The CC influence provided a possibility of a count getting more influence. I'm not saying it should not have been taken away, just that it is an example of what I am speaking of.

And back then, Outremer was massive not few. No less than 10 avatars at that point. ^^

You know what...

...everything is just fine the way it is really.

Of course that won’t change the fact that legislation will pass every diet session...

...and what is more ironic is that eventually, if this game goes on for long enough, we might actually replicate empires expanding and becoming so bureaucratic that they become unwieldy.


There's more than enough legislation for players to creatively play the game well.

Let it be.

Heh, personally I made it already more interesting the like Ansehelm.
Having 2 HA's and something as difficult to defend as Franconia I simply split it in two and have 2 others run it. Ofcourse this will change when Ansehelm gets back, but it does mean something for your career. ~D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AussieGiant

...and what is more ironic is that eventually, if this game goes on for long enough, we might actually replicate empires expanding and becoming so bureaucratic that they become unwieldy.

---

Since I am studying empires in school, I am absolutly fascinated by how this is happening in the game already. :D

Privateerkev: My take on this is that a Duke is perfectly within his rights to demand his Counts return from Outremer. And his Counts are perfectly within their rights to refuse.

But in the end, it is the Chancellor who controls avatar movements. Personally, I would like them to move avatars with some degree of player consent and according to role-playing/realism considerations. In the past, we have had Chancellors move avatars in rebellious ways - e.g. TC let GH kill the Pope; OK let Hummel "rebel" - because that made sense in game. If Jan was sent back to Franconia against your will, from a role-playing/realism point of view, I think it would probably have to be in chains. And that in itself would raise a lot of interesting political issues. ("Free the Franconian One!")

However, I think we are in danger of over-analysing. We should let the game flow and have some faith in our ability to adapt our OOC conventions to meet the IC needs.

econ, I totally agree with all of your points. My only fear was if there were legislation that dictated avatar movement. This is because there is already talk of such legislation. For now, I will go with TC's advice and just try to make sure it doesn't pass.

I am all about the Chancellor having control of avatars. Its what we agree to by joining the game. I guess I believe the Dukes already have plenty of power and they just need to use it if they feel they are underpowered. A Duke can do a lot. And an alliance of Dukes can accomplish anything they want, limited only by the player's self-restraint. Thats why I balk IC and OOC at anything that increases their power.

I like the balance where it is. Next game, we can hash out the specifics for the power structure but for now I say we go with what we have.

Good stories, econ! Sword cane action and a Machiavellian harridan of a Princess who's good with a knife. It warms my heart. :laugh4:

Edit: It makes me want to dust off Elsebeth for another story.

Taking the save, will post back in about an hour.

2 Battles fought, vs Danes and vs Polish seige "army" (he said making the quote-mark gesture). Fritz couldn't stand the thought of waiting till next year to fight them so he gathered together all the soldiers who had a little more spring in their step and did both battles, leaving most of the army near Stettin.

The Danes were ransomed, the Poles got the axe.

Danish battle

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://cicero.modwest.com/images/tw/...tle-1280-1.jpg

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://cicero.modwest.com/images/tw/...lts-1280-1.jpg

Polish battle

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://cicero.modwest.com/images/tw/...tle-1280-2.jpg

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://cicero.modwest.com/images/tw/...lts-1280-2.jpg

Save is here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1280-3.zip

I have taken the save to do some work, I should have a new one back up soon.

Edit: Here's the latest save:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1280-4.zip

Too bad there isn't any (young) Franconian left to pick, as I've grown quite fond of the house. Plus, the internal situation is quite interesting from what I've read in the threads - Jan and Ansehelm duking it out, just after Günther's death.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kage

Welcome back Dutch_Guy! Nothing much have happened since you left, other then all the old guard is dead. Maybe you should take that old Franconian avatar that is free?

---

Don't relish the idea of having to change avatar again on too short a notice, in that case I might as well pick the Austrian House, as I've gathered they need the manpower.

:balloon2:

I'll get my battle in 12 hours or so, i didn;t see it yeasterday, sorry!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

Plus, the internal situation is quite interesting from what I've read in the threads - Jan and Ansehelm duking it out, just after Günther's death.

---

Call it Fredericus's legacy. ;)

He never was happy that Dietrich picked Gunther... :no:

Helps make the house more complex and interesting though. :yes:


As for being Franconian, there is a young Franconian that hasn't come of age (Dieter von Kassel - 6). And he would certainly have a cool back story because his father got bribed by the Russians and Gerhard had to kill him. It would be a few years but you could be an elector in the meantime. It would be one way to stay in the house. Austria definitely needs people though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Call it Fredericus's legacy. ;)

He never was happy that Dietrich picked Gunther... :no:

Helps make the house more complex and interesting though. :yes:


As for being Franconian, there is a young Franconian that hasn't come of age (Dieter von Kassel - 6). And he would certainly have a cool back story because his father got bribed by the Russians and Gerhard had to kill him. It would be a few years but you could be an elector in the meantime. It would be one way to stay in the house. Austria definitely needs people though.

---

DG can be the old goat while waiting, maybe he has some good influence, making sure for some babies ~D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

Too bad there isn't any (young) Franconian left to pick, as I've grown quite fond of the house. Plus, the internal situation is quite interesting from what I've read in the threads - Jan and Ansehelm duking it out, just after Günther's death.

Don't relish the idea of having to change avatar again on too short a notice, in that case I might as well pick the Austrian House, as I've gathered they need the manpower.

---

Dutch_guy: it is entirely your call. You can take a young Franconian if you want - a recruitable general. That makes sense if you are more attached to that House and think it more interesting. But if you have decided to give Austria a try, I know AussieGiant would like someone else to shout at, I mean to keep him company.

I'm signing you up for Wilhelm von Heidelberg, the spare Austrian, but am happy to change that if you reconsider.

I think Stuperman was planning on taking Wilhelm von Heidelberg, since Gerhard Steffen will die soon. The reasoning was that Wilhelm is already in his mid-30s, which will allow Stuperman to play him for 3 Chancellorships until he's near death, at which point Lothar's son will come of age and Stuperman can return to Bavaria (which is his wish).

Of course, Dutch_guy needs an avatar now, but this arrangement helps Austria, utilizes an avatar that is otherwise less appealing due to age, and allows Stuperman to stay in Bavaria in the long run.

I'm back, just to let everyone know. Seems like a lot has happened.

We should close the OOC thread for a week and see how many more fights break out IC. :laugh4:

@DutchGuy:

if you want to take Wilhelm von Heidelberg go right ahead, it was just something I was throwing around, Gerhard still has a few years left in him.

I'm taking the save to fight my battle.

Did anyone hear that Empire: Total War will have 50 factions?!

http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/...em_11497e7.jpg

http://img31.picoodle.com/img/img31/...bm_b4e80ae.jpg

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/...sm_036aea4.jpg

http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/...ym_6cd4660.jpg

Battle is won, I present to you Naples.

Frederich is knighted, he fought bravely.

Edit: the save of course
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1280-5.zip

2nd edit: oops, I seem to have forgotten to turn FOW back on, I can fix that if it's a problem

Nice work Stupers!!