Midgardsaga III [Concluded]

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

If it will help, I will tell you exactly when each person claimed to me, and how many people who claimed to me are still alive.

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That would be helpful. The times more so than the alive (I think we got that).

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I was not the leak. The leak was everywhere. Everyone who would not shut up about their role.

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Yup, this is one of the main reasons I don't think it's you. Believer's death was bizzare, and B_ray's was coming. Renata's is still weird though. She was mum on things.

We know glyphz is a king and if you're a king, only one more king remains. Also Loki and Gyda are alive. So we likely only have 2 rounds to win this game... :laugh4:

The simple fact is, if we lynch Atpg we do risk killing a legit king. We could lose this game in one round then (3 kills has happened before).

If not, we are still likely boned, but who knows, maybe we hit Jotun with this lynch, Andres kills another Jotun, and we lynch the last one next round. It is technically possible to win if we leave Atpg alone and he's a king. It doesn't seem so likely it is if not... :sad:

Alright, let's stop a minute. Tratorix saying the cult is "vaguely defined" is worrisome.

I searched this thread and the first result for the word "cult" was about 24 hours ago, by Earthling. And most, if not all, other posts reffering to a cult (beside Earthling's) could be taken as jokes.

No offense Earthling, but I'd like to hear someone else confirm this cult exists, unless you can personally explain how you know this, and/or give a detailed explanation why this cult really exists.

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If not, we are still likely boned, but who knows, maybe we hit Jotun with this lynch, Andres kills another Jotun, and we lynch the last one next round. It is technically possible to win if we leave Atpg alone and he's a king. It doesn't seem like it is if not..

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Unvote: ATPG I'm almost hoping he is Jotun at this point, at least the idea of half the games kings revealing to a Jotun is kind of funny. Vote: abstain till I switch it sometime.

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Originally Posted by n0rg3 Roink

If not, we are still likely boned, but who knows, maybe we hit Jotun with this lynch, Andres kills another Jotun, and we lynch the last one next round. It is technically possible to win if we leave Atpg alone and he's a king. It doesn't seem so likely it is if not... :sad:

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So you acknowledge that Loki/Andres is killing people by manipulating them?

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Originally Posted by Romanic

So you acknowledge that Loki/Andres is killing people by manipulating them?

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He probably meant through Holmgang.

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Originally Posted by Tratorix

He probably meant through Holmgang.

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Let the man answer for himself. Who are you, his diplomatic attaché?

all in the thread here:

They'd been calling themselves a cult in their norse font for a while. The discussion of Ascension and whatever they wanted to do to king Eirik is Days and Days old and that's in plain English. Also openly voting together against townies in past lynches is unexplainable if they are basic townies, and they certainly shouldn't be Kings/Champions. Then we have attempting to do Loki's bidding the last day, which simply can't be town.

Plus if you assume there are no other non-town parties then people like white_eyes should be lynched for declaring they are not town, as they must be Jotun, and it's not even worth joking about. (Unless people know in private that these people are Kings, but again really, and then that's still a terrible move). Also GH who died and lied about his role as town (or you could take it as an admission he wasn't town), wasn't a King or any town role like that.

In short, there are non-town people other than just Loki and the Jotun out there right now. Their actual goals and victory conditions, no clue, they could even leave the game after the Aesir and then Loki dies or something, could be anything. But for the town, nothing wrong with killing any of them, and it's also useful for the pressure.

tldr; there are non-town people other than just Loki and the Jotun out there right now.

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Originally Posted by Tratorix

Well, that's boring. I was expecting to get at least some entertainment value out of this lynch. ATPG, if you tell us when people revealed to you and who. The only people who should be left out are any living kings. Getting down to the time when we have to lay our cards on the table if the town is gonna have a chance. I mean, were probably going to lose if we keep going the way we're going. :shrug:

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Probably isn't the word you should be using. The way we are going, the game is over.

I haven't bothered pointing fingers because the only people I can point at as suspects now are the remaining kings and champions, because, as was my theory since day freaking one, I suspected ONE OF THEM was a Jotun.

I shared my theory, told people not to trust champions or kings. That's at least 12 proven pro-town roles in a game this size. And, as someone mentioned to me recently, there was a champion TINCOW who was evil in another Midgard game. So we were already aware this was a problem and a potential threat.

The champions and kings I spoke to all seemed to want to know about each other. The champions already knew their own kings, and were less valuable roles, so they stuck their necks out and talked to people. Later I found out some of those champions were actually the Kings, and vice-versa. So those people who were risky with their roles were the people who should not have been.

The gods, we know, claimed publicly in one form or another. B_Ray I even linked to as a reason why we shouldn't lynch him. I suggested I'd follow up on that or something. We almost did lynch him that day. Classical stuck his head out in a holmgang, took a risk and got exposed. And so on.

Believer contacted me early and I spoke to him early due to his silly theory that I killed Earthling. I explained all the reasons that was false. I also shared with him my theory about the Jotun infiltrator being a king or champion. I was inquiring to see who would say what about that theory. Basically nobody bought it.

So B claimed champion. I found out from someone who knew Khaan was a champion not to lynch him that day with B_Ray, then he got lynched on another day. Through that contact I was told that khaan was either a champion or a king, so I assumed he could be either.

I obviously know myself and my champion. (start)
I knew Believer, and through him, his champion. (Round one or two at the latest)
I know Khaan and his King. (Round two-ish)
I was scanned by classical_hero on N1, and so I knew him. I knew B_Ray and the other gods from public events. (Round one)
I knew all about Tincow as well due to the "her" thing and Tincow flinching in response to that. No Tincow I saw it, I was just kind enough to be quiet about it. (When that happened, forget which round)
I found out I think from classical_hero that someone else was a champion. Eventually, that champion's king claimed to me and confirmed that that person was a champion. This was only recently. That king was Renata. (Last round I think)
Believer and another "king" had been talking and claimed to each other. (Before last round)
Renata and another "king" had been talking and claimed to each other. (Last round)
DIY was murdered, I never knew about him.
Stuka we lynched.
Fairly certain I know who the remaining king and champion are due to deduction though I've had no direct contact with the king.
I learned about a certain god who is still alive through Believer's champion. I haven't contacted said God privately, though my inbox is always open. (Couple rounds ago)
Andres well he claimed publicly. I've no reason to specifically doubt his claim, although the remaining gods could have switched identities just to throw off the Jotun.


I am not a Jotun, and the only way you'll know that for sure is when I am dead I suppose. That is a bad lynch and today may be your last shot at saving the game. However, you do not have any good, serious leads that I can see, and if I were to make a suggestion that is on my mind it would probably just make things worse because it banks on the Kings/Champions having a Jotun among them theory.

I do not want to further contribute to this appalling performance. Although I am pretty sure blame for this turn of events does not rest on my shoulders, due to my role I was personally powerless to stop it, and I warned people about their private claiming to anyone besides me, including the gods and other kings/champs.

That said, public claiming was just as bad and people did that too, including myself, but that's only because of the Warman challenge that revealed me as something I could only claim to be a king or champion because I had no god role I could claim, no cover. Besides, at one point we did have a god doing protections.



As for what I think you should do today, I think you should realize that your game, such as it is, is over, with a single caveat. You absolutely must lynch a Jotun today. And I'll be honest, if it is the person I think it is, they played a winning game and you're done. Since even the gods seem to not have any idea what they're doing with their accusations, or they are following a goal which pertains only to them, I'd advise you to spin the wheel, pick a card, roll the dice, and lynch anyone.

Anyone.

King, champion, god, whoever. And just you pray that that person is a Jotun. Not all the townie power roles are going to be townies, kiddies.



I suppose you want me to pick someone. I'll tell you this much: I'm a better lynch than a king or a pro-town god. Who is a better lynch than me, I haven't a :daisy: clue and I'll admit it.

The person I want to make die is a claimed King. I don't trust them. But I'm also not going to point my finger at said person.

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Originally Posted by Romanic

Let the man answer for himself. Who are you, his diplomatic attaché?

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My title is Administrative Assistant, thank you kindly.

The norse font?! Bah Earthling. If they were a cult, why would they communicate in the game thread when they could do so privately?

Since you've translated these posts, I'll humor you and ask for their meaning, but I'm afraid that I might regret this.

For the reason Roink isn't being overwhelmingly lynched right now - apparently some people decided he could do whatever he wants and never ever get into trouble. He could just claim it's a joke and you ignore it. The others just talk about hockey and vote exactly the same as him upon a whim, even that fake lynch on Believer (a town King) for no reason.

If you merely looked at the vote tallies alone and no other evidence, he is a scum who should be lynched, that's for sure. So again unless he's claimed King to people in private, no excuse for his huge voting block and power when the town is just about dead.

Here's all the posts I believe:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Reenk

the cult of reenk

**
Reenk

I absolutely hate the
fact that the wings
arent doing anything
major in the offseason
because it is qwuite clear
that the roster is
flawed

the cult of reenk

**
GH

yes it is probably the
final season for
lidstrom and he
deserves to go out
like a champion I am
surprised you guys did
not try and get jagr

**
Reenk
jagr comes off as the biggest
douchebag ever with his reasons for
choosing philly over detroit or
pittsburgh though namely that giroux
and friere are left handed
canters and he will thrive with
them as if datsyuk and zetterberg
or crosby and malkin are some kind
of scrubs

anyway white eyes youre from
winnipeg right how do you feel about
the fake jets back in town the real
ones still stuck in phoenix of
course

**

White eyes

death is yonder
is dead over yonder
town is down one king
what well this bring

the winnipeg thing

**
GH

in all honesty I wish we did not
have jagr as this offseason we
basically swapped richards carter
leino versteeg and carcillo for a
goalie and jagr and prospects

the prospects will be good but I fear
that by the time they are good
pronger will be too old

**
White eyes

I will follow reenkster
he is the voice of godhoof
beliver must die

LOL Earthling's evidence is literally just them chatting about hockey in Nordic runes! :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Oh, also, Reenk's right the Red Wings lineup is getting a bit thin on defense, also their goaltending is shaky. Better lynch me! :laugh4:

Earthling!!! They are talking about hockey!! :laugh4:

How can you turn this into a cult? :wall:

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Originally Posted by n0rg3 Roink

glyphz what kingdom are you king of?

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I-I don't know what you are talking about! There's no king here:disguise:

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Originally Posted by Romanic

Earthling!!! They are talking about hockey!! :laugh4:

How can you turn this into a cult? :wall:

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You've met leafs fans before, haven't you? :laugh4:

Read his other posts. Exactly as I said. About 0.1% of the case against them has anything to do with the stupid norse font, except that Roink probably thought people would think he's joking about everything everywhere in any case.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

The person I want to make die is a claimed King. I don't trust them. But I'm also not going to point my finger at said person.

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So, glyphz is your suspect?

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Originally Posted by Tratorix

You've met leafs fans before, haven't you? :laugh4:

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Just a bunch of losers, not the fans, the Maple Leafs. :smug2:

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Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

So, glyphz is your suspect?

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No, actually.

My suspect is the guy who was role fishing for Renata's role last night, and the one who spoke with Believer for most of the game, and laughed at me when I told him why I felt out of all the kings and champions, he was the right suspect.

Diamondeye....We need to lynch him ASAP:yes:

Edit: Believer was a bit careless though....He PM'ed me to ask if I was soft-claiming. I told him it was nice of him to ask, but it had nothing to do with power roles. By PMing me, he could have given himself away, since its like saying to a Jotun "I am a Pro-town role please kill me"(I know if it was TinCow or GH they would have)...No harm done in my case.

Town was trying to network/share roles too much and it cost them badly....Me, Reenk, GH and Andres never even revealed our duel scores....let alone what side* we might be on.:shrug:

*Club 30 not withstanding:party:

Vote: Diamondeye

My vote is officially for sale, 5 dollars or best offer.

Questions to everyone alive or dead:

Do you believe that one of the remaining kings or champions is a Jotun? (yes or no, indicate "king" or "champion")

Do you want to risk either a come from behind victory or put the cherry on top of a spectacular failure and accuse one of them?


Your responses will tell me what I should do.

1. Yeah, probably. Got no idea which one it might be.

2. Serve us up a spectacular failure sundae, Pizzaguy. :wink:

Kill Roink, or read his posts includings votes for multiple town Kings and power roles and general vague threats regarding Loki and the Aesir and come up with a coherent argument why he should not die sometime.

It's not worth killing a non-contradicted King today. Too much of a risk, unless it's something like a second person claiming to be the same King.

It's clear that town is boned but we might as well take a Jotun with us.:bow:
Unvote:autolycus Vote:Diamondeye

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Originally Posted by Earthling

Kill Roink, or read his posts includings votes for multiple town Kings and power roles and general vague threats regarding Loki and the Aesir and come up with a coherent argument why he should not die sometime.

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I'm not lynching Reenk Roink. I gotta be honest, his and Andres' performances are the only thing keeping my interest in this from falling apart completely.

That and being able to toss insults at the Jotun before I die. That was extremely satisfying.

I hope Reenk is a cult leader, and I hope he wins. I hope his entire cult erects a monument on your grave which reads "Here lies Earthling. He was right!"

I sort of want to go out on an amusing note. We really can't take ourselves seriously after what just happened.

Tell you what Earthling. Pick anyone who isn't Reenk and I'll vote for them, just for you.

If Diamondeye is the other claimed King you should lynch him now, I'll agree to that, but then you might as well say so. So tell everybody he's the one who was after Renata and Thor etc... and lynch him, and don't listen to any counter story he has (because the claims would be impossible to distinguish and he could lie about anything, up through a cover role PM of a King).

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

I sort of want to go out on an amusing note. We really can't take ourselves seriously after what just happened.

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Why does everyone feel such a need to network though? Pizzaguy, you must be in a philosophical mood...tell me why this is?:book:

With B_Ray revealed to be an Aesir, and likelier than not that all the pro-town Aesir (classical, w&f, B_Ray) are gone, I have good reason to believe that Loki is behind the crazed killers. I can't think that there can be another god around.

And unless the killing of DeathIsYonder & Renata, and maybe even Believer's were all accidents (all related to the crazed killer), we should ask/plead/grovel him to have some caution about his night actions. Otherwise, we should probably rethink about our stance w/ him...

A decent network is an extremely effective way for a town to win a game. The only possible counter in game design, barring something truly insane like a serial killer who kills people based on the number of PMs they have, is some mechanic that turns people who were once townies into non-townies.

A Network of even pure, basic townies can win through luck often enough. Plus, it's extremely susceptible to metagaming, because you can agree to never lynch or kill some other person or two and do that every game, regardless of what role you are, and usually survive farther and personally wield more influence.

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Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

Why does everyone feel such a need to network though? Pizzaguy, you must be in a philosophical mood...tell me why this is?:book:

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They think getting together allows them to pool information, when it really just gathers them all in one convenient location for the mafia to kill.

I heard from the PM grapevine Loki is Pro-town...but I don't really think so. Why jump on a sinking ship?:sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

I heard from the PM grapevine Loki is Pro-town...but I don't really think so. Why jump on a sinking ship?:sweatdrop:

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For the lulz? I've decided if ATPG, Reenk or Andres are Jotun, they can enjoy their win, cause I'm not voting for them.

I do think Diamondeye will laugh that he's getting lynched because other people lied about why I said that yet other people were non-town roles.

You should vote for Diamondeye already pizza, if he's the supposed King/Champion infiltrator.

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Originally Posted by Earthling

You should vote for Diamondeye already pizza, if he's the supposed King/Champion infiltrator.

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I'm not confirming that until I hear from everyone.

Although I should note that I tried to kill Diamondeye already this game with my vote.

I have networked before(Capo3), but that was something that didn't come quickly....it was over 5-6 night/day phases before I had no more information to give to the network in Capo 3. The last bit of information I gave away was my mason buddy(Tratorix).:2thumbsup:

If ATPG would have screwed me over when I first revealed I was an "Incorruptible", town would have been handicapped BIG TIME. But at least, I didn't totally spill my guts right off the bat..."Loose lips sink ships" and all that. And me and Tratorix barely talked thru PM's just in case we would get double-crossed by the other.(Yes, I was that paranoid):laugh4:

Mafia players in general need to start being more careful on who they reveal what to...if you know that person is going to share it with everyone, don't tell them everything.:bow:

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Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

Why does everyone feel such a need to network though? Pizzaguy, you must be in a philosophical mood...tell me why this is?:book:

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The general idea is to get "list of people I should not lynch".

The more people with access to that list, the worse it gets. And it should always be kept in mind that the list probably contains at least one Jotun.

But people want to have their own list, so they ask around and soon, everyone has a version of the list.

All that list does is prevent truly horrendous lynches, and even then only delays their deaths. The gamble is to spare a pro-town role and have a shot at a Jotun simultaneously. 'Fraid we kept shooting blanks, except at our own doodz.

All it takes is for someone to read the summary thread for a couple minutes and look at the vote tallies. The connections between Diamondeye and Renata and Believer including their last vote against him are pretty evident.

Sure, you don't have to actually explain what you think Diamondeye's role is, just vote for him, you said you would after I named him.

Whatever you two are, even if both town, seeing you bicker it out while lots of remaining non-town sit back and laugh and the Jotun still probably win anyway should be funny, that's also true.

I'll vote for Diamondeye.

Vote: Diamondeye

That said, I reserve the right to reverse this vote if a clear majority wants me to point finger at the guy I think is a Jotun/King.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Questions to everyone alive or dead:

Do you believe that one of the remaining kings or champions is a Jotun? (yes or no, indicate "king" or "champion")

Do you want to risk either a come from behind victory or put the cherry on top of a spectacular failure and accuse one of them?


Your responses will tell me what I should do.

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Almighty Odin be praised! Don't reveal a King! :anxious:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

No, actually.

My suspect is the guy who was role fishing for Renata's role last night, and the one who spoke with Believer for most of the game, and laughed at me when I told him why I felt out of all the kings and champions, he was the right suspect.

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I feel there's a clue or two in here, that should help me figure who this player is, let's see...

He claimed King... Aha, surely an impostor!

Talked with Believer.... Hrm, Believer talks so much it could be anyone.. :laugh4:

Role fishing at Renata yesterday...

...

...

:inquisitive:

...

...

:inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisit ive:

...

...

NOPE, I DUNNO WHO THIS GUY IS!!!!! :creep:

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Originally Posted by Romanic

@Sigurd: Can you answer this please?

Are the death written in the same order than the kill list?

(if this is something we should be aware of)

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Usually they are. I tried to put them in order. If they are not, it was unintentional.

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL

...................................
Anyways, tis obvious that we have entered dire times indeed.
And so, Viking Warriors, I impart upon you some advice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnwfTHpnGLY&ob=av2e

oh, and Vote:Diamondeye

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Originally Posted by B_Ray

Sigurd, are the dead allowed to discuss their roles and information attained prior to death? I don't see anything in the OP addressing it.

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If it is not addressed in the OP, then I guess it is not prohibited. :sneaky:

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If it is not addressed in the OP, then I guess it is not prohibited.

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Wonderful! How opportune.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Probably isn't the word you should be using. The way we are going, the game is over.

I obviously know myself and my champion. (start)
I knew Believer, and through him, his champion. (Round one or two at the latest)
I know Khaan and his King. (Round two-ish)
I was scanned by classical_hero on N1, and so I knew him. I knew B_Ray and the other gods from public events. (Round one)
I knew all about Tincow as well due to the "her" thing and Tincow flinching in response to that. No Tincow I saw it, I was just kind enough to be quiet about it. (When that happened, forget which round)
I found out I think from classical_hero that someone else was a champion. Eventually, that champion's king claimed to me and confirmed that that person was a champion. This was only recently. That king was Renata. (Last round I think)
Believer and another "king" had been talking and claimed to each other. (Before last round)
Renata and another "king" had been talking and claimed to each other. (Last round)
DIY was murdered, I never knew about him.
Stuka we lynched.
Fairly certain I know who the remaining king and champion are due to deduction though I've had no direct contact with the king.
I learned about a certain god who is still alive through Believer's champion. I haven't contacted said God privately, though my inbox is always open. (Couple rounds ago)
Andres well he claimed publicly. I've no reason to specifically doubt his claim, although the remaining gods could have switched identities just to throw off the Jotun.

The person I want to make die is a claimed King. I don't trust them. But I'm also not going to point my finger at said person.

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Do you have anything else to say ATPG? :angel:

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Romanic

I suppose I know why Believer thinks ATPG should be lynched: He had a lot of information, and I guess Believer thinks he could have pulled this move, killing 2 kings and a power role, on the same night.

ATPG knew Renata's and Believer's identities, as per our private chats, but I'm still wondering if he would have played it this way. If he's Jotun, we're in trouble anyway, he knows too much.

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Correction, 3 kings on two nights perhaps.

ATPG needs to reveal more and stop lying (/earthling :tongue:) or else he needs to be lynched.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

No, actually.

My suspect is the guy who was role fishing for Renata's role last night, and the one who spoke with Believer for most of the game, and laughed at me when I told him why I felt out of all the kings and champions, he was the right suspect.

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I played a horrible game and I apologize. If you're town I hope you can forgive me. You might aswell go for him/her if you feel that is our best shot.

Good luck.

vote: Thefluffyone93

Allright. Vote: Diamoneye If ATPG is Jotun and all the Kings and Champions claimed to him than we deserve to die...

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Questions to everyone alive or dead:

Do you believe that one of the remaining kings or champions is a Jotun? (yes or no, indicate "king" or "champion")

Do you want to risk either a come from behind victory or put the cherry on top of a spectacular failure and accuse one of them?


Your responses will tell me what I should do.

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Yes. I have not seen anything that would give any clues as to whether the cover role is King or Champion. Any answer I gave would be a complete guess.

If there's a good case against them. There's no point in doing anything at this point but going for the win. We absolutely must lynch a Jotun here, so we need to go for the strongest suspect possible.

Diamondeye was inactive on a night where 2 Jotun were active. Which is the norm as far as I can tell. He can be Jotun aligned but he doesn't seem like he's doing the killing.

I'll kill you myself auto. :stare:

Also, anyone notice a striking resemblance between Earthling here and Atpg in GF3? :creep: LEAVE ME ALONE ~:mecry:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Questions to everyone alive or dead:

Do you believe that one of the remaining kings or champions is a Jotun? (yes or no, indicate "king" or "champion")

Do you want to risk either a come from behind victory or put the cherry on top of a spectacular failure and accuse one of them?


Your responses will tell me what I should do.

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My belief is that one of the Kings is a Jotun. As for whether I think we should accuse one, I think it would be no harm, the only question is, who do we choose. I'm guessing you have knowledge as to who is a King (or a decent inclination by now). Throw your hat on a target, and I'll toss mine in too.

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Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

Why does everyone feel such a need to network though? Pizzaguy, you must be in a philosophical mood...tell me why this is?:book:

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All three dead Aesir outed themselves in public, just saying.

And I'm not sure whether Believer's death might have been prevented by appropriate information in the right hands; I don't know exactly what happened there yet.

People network because it's fun, same reason people do anything else in these games. Smart or not has very little to do with it. You may as well ask why townies evaporate for days at a time, or utterly fail to act like townies, then wonder why they get lynched -- my own personal annoyance.

That said, I personally took far too many risks this game, though there's only one I'm really embarrassed about. I'd wager Reenk could describe that one.

And yes, I believe that it is very likely that a living king or champion is a Jotun. I could not guess which one. I could suspect at least four of you, for different reasons.

From Romanic --

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Call me crazy but I'm starting to believe Earthling's theory about Loki mind-controlling people to attack others.

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Say what you want about Earthling, he is extremely good with figuring out game setups and should never be ignored when he starts talking about things like this. I think he's very likely correct. But that doesn't make Loki a Jotun; it makes him something else.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

No, actually.

My suspect is the guy who was role fishing for Renata's role last night, and the one who spoke with Believer for most of the game, and laughed at me when I told him why I felt out of all the kings and champions, he was the right suspect.

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You do realize that there's no indication that Believer or I were killed by the agency of the Jotun, right? It may have no direct bearing on things (heck, for all I know the Jotun and the other killers are in league by now), but you can't use our deaths as evidence of anything. B_ray's is the one that matters.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Far less interesting than you'd expect.

I have no defense, not going to offer one. You all can lynch my not-Jotun, not-guilty butt and I'm not going to say another word about it.

This is what happens when you all claim to me. That means I die after you guys die. That's all.

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I would like to see you discuss everyone who knew about b_ray. At least one of them you have no reason to protect right now.

I'd also like to know why TinCow is still alive. The Jotun have been busy with Aesir, but the other killers have not. What are their goals?

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Originally Posted by n0rg3 Roink

That would be helpful. The times more so than the alive (I think we got that).



Yup, this is one of the main reasons I don't think it's you. Believer's death was bizzare, and B_ray's was coming. Renata's is still weird though. She was mum on things.

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Relatively speaking, yes -- I didn't reveal my role to ATPG until yesterday (given ATPG's suggested he will confirm these times, I guess it's OK to say). But you may be playing coy here on me?

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We know glyphz is a king and if you're a king, only one more king remains. Also Loki and Gyda are alive. So we likely only have 2 rounds to win this game... :laugh4:

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That's essentially correct. The last king could go undetected for a while, perhaps, but the odds are pretty much nil that all Jotun will be found out first.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

The gods, we know, claimed publicly in one form or another. B_Ray I even linked to as a reason why we shouldn't lynch him. I suggested I'd follow up on that or something. We almost did lynch him that day.

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I guess nobody even noticed that Believer was ALSO on the docket that day. At least I did one thing right this game. My vote change saved them both.

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I was inquiring to see who would say what about that theory. Basically nobody bought it.

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Hah. You should have spoken to me. We could have had a beautifully paranoia-filled chat.

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I am not a Jotun, and the only way you'll know that for sure is when I am dead I suppose. That is a bad lynch and today may be your last shot at saving the game. However, you do not have any good, serious leads that I can see, and if I were to make a suggestion that is on my mind it would probably just make things worse because it banks on the Kings/Champions having a Jotun among them theory.

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Explain why knowledge of b_ray's exact role is not a pre-requisite for the Jotun to have used two killers on him. You knew. The person who gave you his role PM knew. Who else, or why doesn't it matter?

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Originally Posted by n0rg3 Roink

White eyes will be the last Jotun to die due to his help.

Atpg has the fact that classical investigated him as a bit of an alibi, though Atpg claims that himself. Vote: Romanic Quote your role PM. Because you'll die either in the lynch or at night.

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It's not much of an alibi, night zero inactivity. If you were AtPG and Jotun with two other guys, and acutely aware of how you get meta-gamed, which of you three would be active on night zero and which not?

I don't know why I'm arguing, really, I have no idea who the bad guys are.

Anyway, from the post previous to yours (doing this all out of order), TinCow also knew about b_ray: I had forgotten about b_ray's protection. But that's probably irrelevant, and ATPG knows why. He needs to discuss the person he got the role PM from.

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Originally Posted by Romanic

4) And an aggravating factor against you about this game (you know what I'm talking about).

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Actually I don't.

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So, "if I was Town", the pressure made a lot of sense to me, call it a mistake if you want, but it's not in my opinion. Your claim should have helped us, since the alternative was me making a public case on you, which could have been far worse than just me knowing your identity. I gave you a choice, and you decided to reveal your identity. Now of course it looks bad since you are dead, but all I can say is that I have nothing to do with your death. Others knew about your identity so meh, it must be one of them, or perhaps a shot in the dark, though 2 kings and 1 Aesir dying implies otherwise. :shrug:

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Depends on whether or not the Jotun and the other killers are collaborating. Since there's no way to know that, I can't be bothered thinking on it.

You're obviously receptive to the idea that b_ray's manner of death was meaningful, given there's no known connection of you yourself to b_ray's exact identity. Tell me what you think then about the idea that ATPG is refraining from discussing the person who gave him b_ray's role PM because he's concerned it will then come down to a choice of one of the two of them. That he is bringing up the "one of kings/champions is guilty" thing (although undoubtedly correct) as a way of getting in one more mislynch (and of a king/champion, bonus -- though it hardly matters) before that decision becomes an issue.

Tell me what you think, Romanic.

I'm still betting on Gyda being scum. She seems awfully good with a sword, not just surviving but actually killing her attacker, who was a king, if I'm reading the write-up accurately, and she doesn't want her mission being interrupted. What's her mission. Could it be create conflict and chaos? Because that's what she seems to have done.

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Originally Posted by autolycus

I'm still betting on Gyda being scum. She seems awfully good with a sword, not just surviving but actually killing her attacker, who was a king, if I'm reading the write-up accurately,

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You can thank my father for that ability. He trained his daughter well.

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Originally Posted by autolycus

and she doesn't want her mission being interrupted. What's her mission. Could it be create conflict and chaos? Because that's what she seems to have done.

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Find Jotun, avoid the guy who's trying to kill me. My weak feminine emotions have gotten the better of me and for some reason I feel bad that so many people are about to die because of me.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Tell me what you think then about the idea that ATPG is refraining from discussing the person who gave him b_ray's role PM because he's concerned it will then come down to a choice of one of the two of them

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I did.

At that point I was trying to figure out if I could trust B_Ray and I had been talking to ATPG already. If ATPG isn't scum I don't think I did any harm with it, I didn't talk to anyone else about B_Rays claims. If ATPG is scum I was just one of the players who willingly handed him the game...

Now I want to openly ask a question that I asked ATPG about B_Rays PM. He told me he protected me and TinCow the night that Arnvid Torarinsson was attacked and survived a night attack. That's why he asked me if I was Arnvid and I told him yes. But the truth is, I am not. Believer was Arnvid Torarinsson. So, how did Believer survive the attack that night, since he wasn't protected by B_Ray at all?

Also, if Andres/Loki is protown and he's the killer that does the crazed people why is he now responsible for the death of three kings?!

I doubt that Loki is protown -- if he is, he could clearly have used just a tad bit more of that townie networking that everyone's so down on. I just have a hard time seeing him as Jotun given the patterns in the writeups.

(This means nothing about Andres specifically, who could be a lying liar who lies.)

Believer probably survived due to being hopped up on Loki-juice.

Why would he be on Loki-juice? I thought our current theory is that Loki sends the crazy killers. Why would he send a killer after Believer and then protect him?

Looks like we're pretty screwed.

Unvote, Vote: Diamondeye

Loki, if you really are the one giving everyone berserk potions, do me a favor and kill Romanic for us, too.

That said, I don't believe it's Loki doing this.

Are the votes on Diamondeye because he's ATPG's suspect for the town leak? It seems like that's the reason, but I can't find any post where that's actually stated.

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Originally Posted by TheLastDays

That's why he asked me if I was Arnvid and I told him yes. But the truth is, I am not.

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:wall:

Is TLD a champion or a king? Did any of the gods investigate him while he was alive?

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Are the votes on Diamondeye because he's ATPG's suspect for the town leak? It seems like that's the reason, but I can't find any post where that's actually stated.

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I don't think so. There seems to be no reason for them whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by TheLastDays

Why would he be on Loki-juice? I thought our current theory is that Loki sends the crazy killers. Why would he send a killer after Believer and then protect him?

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Believer was the crazy-killer (one of them anyway) last night. The working theory is that he was possessed in some fashion, though I guess it hasn't been entirely ruled out that he did it of his own volition. Secondary to that theory is that the possession made him stronger (strong enough to survive an attack by the other crazy-killer).

Which implies by the way that both are not controlled by the same person, though for all I know that's some sort of elaborate fakery, too.

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Originally Posted by Renata

All three dead Aesir outed themselves in public, just saying.

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And networking helped narrow down the suspect list. If D_E is a Jotun then, he was really handed a victory on a silver platter. I recall you and believer voting for D_E on day four? did you already suspect something of him?:book:

He was acting entirely scummalicious. I personally thought, probably too much so to be guilty. When he's actually scum, he tends to be more circumspect. I voted for him only because I could see him being an eternal distraction down the line; those posts of his were really horrible, easy-peasy lynch bait. I thought sooner would be better than later.

I would never harm anyone, I'm not mean enough.

Vote: ATPG

I think we all agree the Jotun have someone inside the network. ATPG is inside the network. ATPG believes that a King or Champion is a Jotun. ATPG claims to be a King or a Champion. ATPG strongly believes that we need to lynch a specific King/Champion he suspects of being the leak and made a big deal about it. ATPG then votes for someone who is apparently not who he suspects of being the network leak. This seems pretty clear cut to me.

[edit]Also...

FOS: TLD

Really should have given that case back when we all were jumping on ATPG, TinCow.:no:

Now town might have shot itself in the head.:sweatdrop:

All of this discussion about other things aside, I'd probably be voting for white_eyes if I could vote today, out of sheer perversity. He'd kill Seamus and think it was funny, he's gloating all over the place today, and he challenged Nightbringer on the "theory" (obviously bogus) that we were both scum together. The real reason was obviously that Nightbringer gave an impression of being exactly what he was, a generic townie -- Nightbringer's reaction to Tratorix' PM made that completely obvious -- someone white_eyes could expect to defeat.

Secondarily, ATPG, on the suspicion that he is setting up this king for the fall, and that he would not have asked the townies' "permission" first if he himself were a townie. And because he knew about B-ray.

Thirdly, Romanic, for bashing me over the head with that forced reveal, and for being approximately 25 times as talkative today as previously -- when things are godawful for the town, look for depressed participation there. We get the opposite with Romanic.

Fourthly, Tratorix, because it would be lousy to have saved a Jotun for no reason.

Fifthly, Reenk.

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Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

Really should have given that case back when we all were jumping on ATPG, TinCow.:no:

Now town might have shot itself in the head.:sweatdrop:

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Oh good lord, white_eyes, could you be any more obvious.

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Originally Posted by B_Ray

:wall:

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It was actually a mistake, man. When you asked me I honestly didn't remember my character's name and looked back at my role PM wherein the bolding is a bit weird, as in, my character's name is not bolded, only the name of my king, Arnvid Torarinsson, was bolded. I didn't look closely and told you I was Arnvid Torarinsson because I thought I was... Sorry... I messed up quite a few things in this game...

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Is TLD a champion or a king? Did any of the gods investigate him while he was alive?

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I'm a champion, since it has been stated several times and my king is already dead I see no need to hide it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Believer

I would never harm anyone, I'm not mean enough.

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I didn't imply that. I am trying to figure out the mechanics of the crazed killers...

Come to think of it, TLD is up there somewhere also, for using false pretenses to get b_ray's role PM.

Edit: Say exactly how that went down with b_ray TLD. Who approached whom and how and etc.