Futuramafia [Concluded]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

ok, so do you actually think i am a wolf or not?

---

yes, but not enough for t'dome to be worth it

i think atheotes is town

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

yes, but not enough for t'dome to be worth it

---

look cuth, if you think he is a wolf

lay it out for us.

quit this nancying about and just post it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atheotes

x-post.



I dont think it is enought to warrant a lynch today. Only conclusion is that Crimson and Choxorn are not w/w. If Crimson is resolved as town, then the possibility of Choxorn being scum is high.

---

i don't particularly understand how the latter part of this follows from the first part

seems just as possible it is v/v than v/w

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

lul?

you know ~no information about the setup other than your own role and that one vt and one non-vt has died and you are making a statement about the balance?

---

Well, we don't have multiple day vigs, 4 kills a night, and 6 varieties of cop, so it feels good so far. I agree though, it was a bit premature, I'm just often careful online to take extra care to not do anything that might be interpreted as an insult, and given I was reprimanded for being overly snarky earlier I was going overboard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Visor

I think johnhughthom is town

i would appreciate more cutting insights however

newyn and murska are kinda sketchy right now, newyn moreso than murska

feel like leaving them alone for now

i'm a little skeeved at winston hughes too

loltinfoil suggests winston/atpg/murska team and newyn is a villager

---

i saw one post from john a couple pages back. it really sucked.
are you SURE you think that is town behavior?

winston's initial posts really set me off. Weren't wacky and RP like Barto but weird in a hey i'm posting kinda way.
Don't know about pizza...you guys have been jumping on him and novice for awhile now. Will have to look at em.

nevyn/murska....murska needs to post more.
nevyn i haven't even seen post

do you think i'm wolfy enough to be worth a thunderdome? why

make a case, doesn't have to be fancy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atheotes

x-post.



I dont think it is enought to warrant a lynch today. Only conclusion is that Crimson and Choxorn are not w/w. If Crimson is resolved as town, then the possibility of Choxorn being scum is high.

---

wel;l that's just it, palsy-walsy...i may not resolve as anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

i saw one post from john a couple pages back. it really sucked.
are you SURE you think that is town behavior?

winston's initial posts really set me off. Weren't wacky and RP like Barto but weird in a hey i'm posting kinda way.
Don't know about pizza...you guys have been jumping on him and novice for awhile now. Will have to look at em.

nevyn/murska....murska needs to post more.
nevyn i haven't even seen post

---

wrt john? yeah i think it is. his posting certainly doesnt seem like it has any kind of agenda to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

do you think i'm wolfy enough to be worth a thunderdome? why

make a case, doesn't have to be fancy

---

You made a post that was constructed like this:

light wolf read on one player (who is a villager) using language that included "a bit wolfish"

light push on a different player (who is also very likely to be a villager)

vote on first player


that is how a wolf posts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

i think atheotes is town

---

based on WHAT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

i don't particularly understand how the latter part of this follows from the first part

seems just as possible it is v/v than v/w

---

evidence piece number one

this is a really nitpicky/wolfy thing to post

stork has been doing this similarly to novice

hasn't been posting about important stuff and the stuff he comments on are not the things i would think he would as town

looking for opportunities to exploit more than actual problems

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

....
But my AHHHHHHHH was in fact about you being on the money here. I'm not a straight vig.

I am a Limited vig. I will be told when I can make a vig. I figured it would be that I could shoot people that were voting for me, but that isn't it. It isn't an even/odd night thing. Or at least I don't know that. It could be that but I"m guessing it is more eventbased.
Like... "when the situation is THIS, I can shoot at THESE PARTICULAR people". I'm hoping I can shoot tonight.

---

What? I thought you were softclaiming even night vig. What was the basis for your speculation that Spaceman was also vig?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

based on WHAT

---

his posts just now

calling me a good player is also lolbad, your post about pizza was pretty terrible too regardless of it is w/w or w/v from your end.

you are unbelievably soft

you are just a wolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Though to be honest, Crimson, that sounds more like a potential Serial Killer.

If someone could find parallels in one of the wikis, that would be good.

---

if i were a serial killer i would have actually...ya know,. killed last night

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

You made a post that was constructed like this:

light wolf read on one player (who is a villager) using language that included "a bit wolfish"

light push on a different player (who is also very likely to be a villager)

vote on first player


that is how a wolf posts.

---

who is the different player again?

Nevyn made a semi-claim and left. I haven't been able to find out what tdome is. Thunderdome?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

evidence piece number one

this is a really nitpicky/wolfy thing to post

stork has been doing this similarly to novice

hasn't been posting about important stuff and the stuff he comments on are not the things i would think he would as town

looking for opportunities to exploit more than actual problems

---

don't remember making a single post about novice, though if i did it wasn't specifically about novice because otherwise i would remember

how am i planning on exploiting this spot as a wolf, are you saying that choxorn is for sure my wolf bro?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atheotes

What? I thought you were softclaiming even night vig. What was the basis for your speculation that Spaceman was also vig?

---

sorta kinda...i did want to see who was actually thinking about what i might be and didn't see much of that. Saw a couple people double down on how scummy i am like khaan and winston.

monty alone actually speculated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

calling me a good player is also lolbad, your post about pizza was pretty terrible too regardless of it is w/w or w/v from your end.

you are unbelievably soft

you are just a wolf

---

calling you a good player is not lolbad

all i said is that pizza's town

i personally think the way he did it is never pizza!scum

i'm not unbelievably soft

i AM trying to lock in townreads

that is my priority

i am not focusing on finding scum as my main goal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

who is the different player again?

---

visor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dp101

Kinda disappointing, I hoped you were something odd like vig half the time doc the other half, which would be a really interesting thematic choice, but this works too.

To Zach, please don't interpret the above as complaining about the setup, so far things have felt decently balanced.

---

how can you say that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

don't remember making a single post about novice, though if i did it wasn't specifically about novice because otherwise i would remember

how am i planning on exploiting this spot as a wolf, are you saying that choxorn is for sure my wolf bro?

---

not about novice, just novice has been doing the same sort of thing

and no

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Nevyn made a semi-claim and left. I haven't been able to find out what tdome is. Thunderdome?

---

yes, basically two players going head to head at each other.

tunneling, essentially

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

visor

---

ok i'm sorry i'm going to go look at the post again i do not remember this completely

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

calling you a good player is not lolbad

all i said is that pizza's town

i personally think the way he did it is never pizza!scum

i'm not unbelievably soft

i AM trying to lock in townreads

that is my priority

i am not focusing on finding scum as my main goal

---

thats not the post about pizza i am talking about

the post earlier about pizza being utr that seemed like a blatant pocket is the post i am talking about

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

calling you a good player is not lolbad

all i said is that pizza's town

i personally think the way he did it is never pizza!scum

i'm not unbelievably soft

i AM trying to lock in townreads

that is my priority

i am not focusing on finding scum as my main goal

---

cuth, i am struggling with this post because we recently mislynched pizza

and you were hemming and hawing

and this game you have a perfectly solid read on him, he is your LOCK TOWN

i don't get it?

I mean i dont think pizza is very wolfy but I can't see how he is lock town

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

cuth+atpg maybe w/w

---

oh with this i realize you're still tunneling and you were talking about what i said about pizza, similar to what i said about you, earlier on

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atheotes

What? I thought you were softclaiming even night vig. What was the basis for your speculation that Spaceman was also vig?

---

oh forgot the last part...

The spaceman speculation was because he was Leela nothing more.

She seems like she might be a vig character as she kicks people and holds a blaster a lot.

Also because i think my role is not obviously THAT useful and since i've seen odd/even vig setups before it seemed logical that there is another partial vig or stronger than me vig out there. SInce there was no other kill besides barto, i don't think that anymore unless they too are hampered like me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Nevyn made a semi-claim and left. I haven't been able to find out what tdome is. Thunderdome?

---

yes.

attempt to force a situation where the other players choose between two players, both of which strongly believe the other is scum, if one flips town you kill the other afterwards asap.

generally occurs if both players (and others) strongly believe they cannot ever be v/v

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Visor

cuth, i am struggling with this post because we recently mislynched pizza

and you were hemming and hawing

and this game you have a perfectly solid read on him, he is your LOCK TOWN

i don't get it?

I mean i dont think pizza is very wolfy but I can't see how he is lock town

---

yeah but he was posting really really strangely that game

like way outside of anything

i see this in his town range, but way out of his scum range

ymmv

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atheotes

how can you say that?

---

I literally just explained that a page back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

if i were a serial killer i would have actually...ya know,. killed last night

---

I meant the idea of selective kill conditions that are not known to the role from the start. Sounds SK-ish. Not sure I've heard of such a thing before, for the vig not to know how he can kill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

thats not the post about pizza i am talking about

the post earlier about pizza being utr that seemed like a blatant pocket is the post i am talking about

---

ok can you find my post about pizza being utr

i'm looking back at the other one rn

i'm so happy you guys are posting this much i could cry.

http://1.images.comedycentral.com/im...rs_640x360.jpg

Right, and, what is Thunderdome?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

ok can you find my post about pizza being utr

i'm looking back at the other one rn

---

its the same post

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

i don't particularly understand how the latter part of this follows from the first part

seems just as possible it is v/v than v/w

---

well, he had a chance to get rid of a possible vig and he decided to take it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

yeah but he was posting really really strangely that game

like way outside of anything

i see this in his town range, but way out of his scum range

ymmv

---

what IS his town range

what IS his scum range

explain please

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Right, and, what is Thunderdome?

---

Stork just explained it.

Dammit. OK, someone answered. Sorry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

I meant the idea of selective kill conditions that are not known to the role from the start. Sounds SK-ish. Not sure I've heard of such a thing before, for the vig not to know how he can kill.

---

I have not heard of it before but i've played tons of games with customized roles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Right, and, what is Thunderdome?

---

two players enter, one player leaves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

Warning:ATPG is likely just reining in his posting

because he doesn't want to scare off all the ORG and CFCers again

---

ah this one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atheotes

well, he had a chance to get rid of a possible vig and he decided to take it.

---

i need to look back at the timing of the posts but im not sure i totally agree but that seems reasonable

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Visor

what IS his town range

what IS his scum range

explain please

---

i can't define them

i just think the way he laid out his thoughts over those posts

and the fact that he did it over that many

and his tone

were pure

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

ah this one

---

specifically addressing pelican in that post because he was talking about ATPG being UtR

and i don't get the feeling that ATPG ever would really play UTR

and i didn't want the people who haven't played with him to start having that idea

Official Tally

3 CrimsonFox (BSmith, Winston Hughes, khaan)
3 Montmorency (Pelican, novice, Murska)
3 novice (Visor, Cuthillius, atheotes)

2 Riedquat (Askthepizzaguy, Dp101)

1 Choxorn (Al Sips)
1 Cuthillius (Stork)
1 Dp101 (GeneralHankerchief)
1 Pelican (Montmorency)
1 seireikhaan (CrimsonFox)
1 Winston Hughes (john)

---

2 Not Voting: Newyn, Riedquat

1 Not Posting: Choxorn

---

Voting ends in:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

i can't define them

i just think the way he laid out his thoughts over those posts

and the fact that he did it over that many

and his tone

were pure

---

What?

he is lock town to you for reasons you can't explain because you can't define what his villager and scum game looks like?


https://i.imgur.com/63p0KXD.gif

why is your read so strong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

specifically addressing pelican in that post because he was talking about ATPG being UtR

and i don't get the feeling that ATPG ever would really play UTR

and i didn't want the people who haven't played with him to start having that idea

---

but they are playing the same game, if he is utr he is utr, it doesn't matter whether that is normal or not.

how does their idea of him matter whatsoever?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

Vote: El Barto

could see both barto and spaceman being wolves given the unvote here actually though

---

note

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Cases cannot contribute without external information, primarily from lynches and night kills/deaths in juxtaposition.

Your behavior is a phantom case hiding behind that precise lack of information. The "not contributing" angle looks extremely bad as an argument, worse even than if you just declared a crusade on lurkers or something.



Live by your principles or die behind them, Mr. Crimson-looks-jumpy-plus-maybe-someone's-lying-low.

---

I see no conflict in principle. The whole reason I'm voting you is because I think the overall general and hypothetical nature with which you are presently approaching the game suggests an attitude that is at odds with what I expect from village.

The fact that I said attitude trumps content means that I think it doesn't matter weather someone's ideas are wrong or right, but rather that the attitude with which they are made seems villagery or not. That doesn't mean I don't care if people post their cases. I don't like the "need more information" angle because it has no utility. We don't have more information, but that doesn't mean we can't do the best we can with what we do have. I tend to run off of tone more than vote analysis anyways though, and I know some people prefer to come to conclusions by analyzing lynches, kills, bandwagons etc... so that's valid.

Also my question wasn't a rhetorical accusation that you aren't contributing, it was a genuine invitation to you to prove to me that your approach, though different than mine, also has merit. That invitation still stands. Essentially I'm asking you to consider "How are my actions helping me achieve my goals" and in the context of this game the only goal for village is finding the mafia.

Going to drop this for now and go to bed. Hopefully in the morning I can return with a fresh perspective something more productive to add than an argument which I worry is beginning to veer off track.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

but they are playing the same game, if he is utr he is utr, it doesn't matter whether that is normal or not.

how does their idea of him matter whatsoever?

---

if people focus on something they shouldn't be because they don't know better that is -ev right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthilius

UtR

---

Thank you. In this instance you lowercased the "t", allowing me to infer 'Under the Radar'.

Now all of you, cut the jargon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Visor

What?

he is lock town to you for reasons you can't explain because you can't define what his villager and scum game looks like?


https://i.imgur.com/63p0KXD.gif

why is your read so strong?

---

i literally explained my reasoning

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

if people focus on something they shouldn't be because they don't know better that is -ev right?

---

so you are telling people about his meta, which he isn't playing to, in order to get them to focus on what???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

oh forgot the last part...

The spaceman speculation was because he was Leela nothing more.

She seems like she might be a vig character as she kicks people and holds a blaster a lot.

Also because i think my role is not obviously THAT useful and since i've seen odd/even vig setups before it seemed logical that there is another partial vig or stronger than me vig out there. SInce there was no other kill besides barto, i don't think that anymore unless they too are hampered like me.

---

hmm...i do see the possibility but it still seems like a stretch. But thanks for explaining.
Only VTs are allowed to post after death. Do we know if Spaceman not available or is he not allowed to post?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dp101

I literally just explained that a page back.

---

Yeah. i saw it..after posting. I am just a little behind

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Thank you. In this instance you lowercased the "t", allowing me to infer 'Under the Radar'.

Now all of you, cut the jargon.

---

Best post made by you in the entire thread (kidding, but seriously, I'm tired of googling words every 5 seconds).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

so you are telling people about his meta, which he isn't playing to, in order to get them to focus on what???

---

other things

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by atheotes

Yeah. i saw it..after posting. I am just a little behind

---

I understand, every time I take the time to post 5 more appear (like this one, which is why no multiquoting).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dp101

Best post made by you in the entire thread (kidding, but seriously, I'm tired of googling words every 5 seconds).

---

then please just ask

visor

was thinking about it

pizza has no agenda

never seen that as maf

never really seen it as town much either

but i don't think he adopts it as scum

given the player that he is

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

then please just ask

---

I don't like clogging up the thread with constant questions, plus googling is faster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

other things

---

like what?

i am reading that page and no one is focussed on pizza and his posting so i don't understand how you are saying people needed to be unbogged by you bringing it up, when it seems likely that your post did the complete opposite (at least fmpov)

meh

stork

you might be town actually

i still think your choices of comments are a little unusual

but i think you have been pushing me from a towny pov

looking at eod and now

cuth, i really think you are just a wolf because as a villager you would just handwave that off as a non-challant non-impactful comment, which is what it is, rather than attempting to doube down on it being a GOoD POaST with many merits

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

meh

stork

you might be town actually

i still think your choices of comments are a little unusual

but i think you have been pushing me from a towny pov

looking at eod and now

---

ok, well you are still a wolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

like what?

i am reading that page and no one is focussed on pizza and his posting so i don't understand how you are saying people needed to be unbogged by you bringing it up, when it seems likely that your post did the complete opposite (at least fmpov)

---

literally anything else

oh well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

ok, well you are still a wolf

---

nope

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

wel;l that's just it, palsy-walsy...i may not resolve as anything.

---

what do you mean?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

literally anything else

oh well

---

you know when someone says "dont think about X", the first thing everyone thinks about is "X"

and while i do see why you think so

you haven't played with me wolfing for a long time not counting turbos and even then

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

visor

was thinking about it

pizza has no agenda

never seen that as maf

never really seen it as town much either

but i don't think he adopts it as scum

given the player that he is

---

!!!

But we see it frequently enough with Pizza. It's just that he is fluid enough not to pin it to a single alignment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pelican

I see no conflict in principle. The whole reason I'm voting you is because I think the overall general and hypothetical nature with which you are presently approaching the game suggests an attitude that is at odds with what I expect from village.

[...]

I don't like the "need more information" angle because it has no utility. We don't have more information

---

That's exactly what the Mafia uses against the Town: non-information and doublespeak. This is what you are doing. This isn't a difference between general and particular but an active attempt to avoid making any effort beyond a regurgitated vortex of sophistry. You could deploy it against anyone you like, and I'm sure you have a few more formulas like it tucked away.

And the audacity to frame it as a question of merit, when no concrete method or individual player has a record on the caliber of what you imply, is just too much. What are your objectives, and say something more useful than "town victory" or "find scum".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

you know when someone says "dont think about X", the first thing everyone thinks about is "X"

---

cool

i don't care

i misjudged a post

silly me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cuthillius

and while i do see why you think so

you haven't played with me wolfing for a long time not counting turbos and even then

---

i don't care about meta

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

!!!

But we see it frequently enough with Pizza. It's just that he is fluid enough not to pin it to a single alignment.

---

I'm sorry, you see what often with Pizza?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

i don't care about meta

---

okay

as much as you might think i do*

wolfy things are wolfy regardless of who does them

meta can be manipulated

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stork

as much as you might think i do*

wolfy things are wolfy regardless of who does them

meta can be manipulated

---

nevertheless my game is completely different than it was then

so things that may have been indicative at another time