Capo di Tutti Capi III [Concluded]

There was a serious effort to take him down late in the game, after Chaotix contacted me and said he wanted to work together with the mafia to bring him down. However, this was the same round where CR forgot to CC Seamus on his orders. Otherwise SSNeo would have been dead, ATPG would have been down to one doctor, and he probably would have been dead meat the following night.

I can't speak for the other mafiosi, but the general sentiment was that ATPG's group was too hard to crack and we would have to take him out from the bottom up. We went for broke once with the CDF hit, which resulted in my Don losing favor with him.

I don't think pizza was going to be lynched without revealing half a dozen or so mafia. There was almost always an obvious, obvious mafioso to be lynched that drew a bunch of votes. With the number of people inside his group, it should have been simple enough to pick off the protectors in pro town roles, but the mafia never seemed to have the kill power. I don't know why that was.

GH. Maybe you can answer my question. Who the heck killed CDF. We didn't have the man power to do it yet were credited with the kill.

Because I was a neutral, I can virtually guarantee I wouldn't have done anything further for the town if I died. I wanted to stay alive VERY BADLY because my entire VC depended on being able to actively influence the game. Without that incentive, I would have no further reason to continue.

Kommodus and TheStranger were good early targets by the mafia. (edit: oh yeah, he died from YLC, nvm...) I know we poo-poo'ed TS' strategy, but if he had been doing pt groups of 5 and vigilante groups of 4, his strategy would have worked to gain at least a few extra doctors. Kommodus leaving the game was also a strike and a half for the mafia. TinCow also did some damage with his vigilante acts and in-thread activity. Reenk was trickier, but once he wasn't director he was vulnerable. All you had to do was find someone who wanted to be director but wasn't interested in pro-town organizing, and stick them in as director instead of Reenk.

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There was a serious effort to take him down late in the game, after Chaotix contacted me and said he wanted to work together with the mafia to bring him down. However, this was the same round where CR forgot to CC Seamus on his orders. Otherwise SSNeo would have been dead, ATPG would have been down to one doctor, and he probably would have been dead meat the following night.

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Still had Double A, and even without him, I would have stuck 5 townies on me. Taking me down would have meant at least 3 mafia needed to be exposed in the pt group itself. In the later stages I abandoned the idea of 3-person protection groups. Add another 2 people and they never failed.

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I can't speak for the other mafiosi, but the general sentiment was that ATPG's group was too hard to crack and we would have to take him out from the bottom up. We went for broke once with the CDF hit, which resulted in my Don losing favor with him.

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:yes:

The design of the protection rings was such that you couldn't do a direct assault on me, and you had to undermine the pyramid. That meant that the mafia would be directing hits against those without any roles, at the bottom, which was most of the idea. And that meant I could focus investigations on people not likely to die soon, such as people not even in my organization. If the mafia are directing attacks at non-role townies in the organization, investigations of power roles within the group was done first, and then we checked everyone who wasn't cooperative. Power roles were known and protected, unknown roles were investigated, and townie foot soldiers gave their lives bravely for the town. Being able to better predict the mafia's general strategy made it easier to plan my own. While I wasn't forcing them to attack anyone in particular, there was an incentive to target my groups bottom-up, which caused hits on Diana and Beskar and glyphz and Jolt and any number of regular townies and even wiseguys.

There were ways around it, with the failed protection group strategy. However, every failed protection group would then be deeply scrutinized, and in order for it to be deliberate, one of the members had to be a mafioso, costing the mafia more members. Best case would be an even trade, or a couple of townies for a mafia. And then the next night, another group would step in and replace. It was a giant headache for the mafia, I am sure. The protection rings acted sort of like a testudo formation, keeping the center of the group shielded from projectiles.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

I don't think pizza was going to be lynched without revealing half a dozen or so mafia

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I tried to make taking me down, either during the day phase or night, as costly as possible; yet still something to strive for.

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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat

GH. Maybe you can answer my question. Who the heck killed CDF. We didn't have the man power to do it yet were credited with the kill.

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I know it was Scotty and his partner who did so upon my suggestion. However, considering there was no official connection to you, Winter, or me, I have no idea why it came up as a Corleone kill.

I sent pm's to Seamus to clarify that but never received info. I maintain that things wouldn't have looked so bad for me if the CDF hit came up as a different family.

I think it was woad and centurion who killed CDF. I don't know why it registered as a kill for DG's family, though, since I believe LG sanctioned it.

CR

I sanctioned the hit on Beskar (yourself and Lord Winter). Oh well. likely ATPG would have seen through that ruse as well.

Also, we had a plan to get ATPG lynched instead of me or Sasaki that came close to working.

Did any family besides LG's do much recruiting? I mean, I practically recruited myself into that family too ( ~;p ).

CR

We had really bad luck with investigations. We thought about Beskar early in the game but he went with ATPG. But we knew Beskar was a wise guy form others not through investigations. Once he went publicly for ATPG we decided not to approach him. Other than that we didn't get anywhere with possible recruits.

Was I correct that the hit involving a sniper and the rabbit, using the violin bow, was a case of loose mades being put together under Don Stracchi (Haudegen), and that explains why there was a kill that night involving two, using the violin bow, but before it had just been the lone Don? I only pieced that puzzle together on the final rounds.

Yep, after LG bit the dust, me and CR joined Haudegen briefly briefly before I died.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

However, this was the same round where CR forgot to CC Seamus on his orders. Otherwise SSNeo would have been dead, ATPG would have been down to one doctor, and he probably would have been dead meat the following night.

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Half-decent chance I could have been protected, if this wasn't in the early rounds before I'd contacted anyone. If it was, well, I can thank the fates and yourselves for running such a slick operation.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

N16- protected by Double A

N15- protected by Double A

N14- "protected" by Splitpersonality (was not protected, Split/Chaotix were exposed as traitors.)

N13- "protected" by Chaotix, Haudegen, and Crazed Rabbit
(reason: I knew I couldn't trust any of them. I was daring them to make a move and expose themselves)

N12- protected by Chaotix, Kukrikhan, Haudegen, ACIN.
(If this group failed, Chaotix and Haudegen would have been exposed)

N11- protected by Kukrikhan, Haudegen, Chaotix, Shinseikhan, Crazed Rabbit.
(If this group failed, 3 scums exposed.)

N10- protected by Beefy187, Kukrikhan, woad&fangs, Shinseikhaan
(If this group failed, one exposed... and khaan was questionable.)

N9- protected by A completely inoffensive name, Tratorix, El Diablo, woad&fangs, Chaotix
(if this group failed, 2 exposed)

N8- protected by Double A

N7- protected by Cultured Drizzt Fan

N6- no protection (2 vigilante groups... not enough protectors)

N5- Craterus, El Diablo, Joooray (this group would have worked)

N4- no contact yet

N3- no contact yet

N2- no contact yet

N1- no contact yet

If SSNeoperestroika died, except on night 6, between 2 or 3 scums would have been exposed. After his death, the questionable members of the groups (guilty or criminal results, questionable results) would have been priority number 1.

I knew SSN would be a tempting target, and I wanted the scumbags to make their move on him. Eventually they did, and it didn't work due to bad coordination, and the traitors died anyway.

Partial host summary added to post #3612

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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat

I sent pm's to Seamus to clarify that but never received info. I maintain that things wouldn't have looked so bad for me if the CDF hit came up as a different family.

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I had Centurion1 and woad&fangs working as the Queen of Hearts snipers on n5 (Johnhughthom) and n6 (Kommodus). Despite being the same pairing, I was thrown by the CR/LW combo and ended up putting the same tag on both kills. Simple mistake rushing to get the write-up done.

Unfortunately, by the time I saw things, it had progressed too far to try to rewrite it. However, I am not certain it contributed materially to your death. The three person team protecting CDF would have failed anyway -- regardless of signature -- as the 'Goat was one of three.

Thanks for the clear up Seamus. Forgive me shlin :shame: and WHY ANDRES?!??!?! :furious3: I had a hit organized on you round 3 that I took off... :whip:

I don't think the Mafia played poorly. I think they played too conservatively (partly because townies was very lazy/protown aligned), and that along with the town's good play and great luck did them in.

Really, the groups and detectives for all their power were extremely vulnerable (look what happened after the Ironside lynch) but the opportunities present were never taken advantage of.

As for me, had I done it over again I would have never revealed Ironside's name the second time. After pever died, any extra ambition of 'victory' I had in the game was completely gone anyway, and I just wanted to mess around. Being Director was fun and I would have loved to continue but unfortunately a weekend trip made me miss a round, and then by the time of the next selection, I found myself too deep in a drama. :laugh4:

It was fun for awhile randomly naming names that turned out to be Mafia, but later I felt bad because I saw the balance of the game was wholly out of proportion about two thirds into it and it would probably be a boring ending (that's why I helped the Mafia all throughout the end, not because I actually cared for a Mafia victory (though I did want the people who were Mafia to win more than the people who were town :beam:) thanks to the remaining Mafia, they outwitted the town a lot and it wasn't :2thumbsup:).

I can't wait until the host's summary is completed!

It's already pretty epic with just the first three days.

wow... this is truly an epic game. thanks for hosting Seamus.
Congratulations to the town and all the people who worked for it.


I started as the Barzini don with Discovery1 as my Luca and Veronica "Trouble" Toluso as the Made.
Within an hour of receiving my role PM i got a PM from disco along the lines of "Yo don, i have been talking with people. Kagemusha is apparently a wiseguy willing to join us and he can bring his partner. I have asked him to PM you". I urged him to stay cautious and quiet. It was great to have Kage and Leet Erikksson work with us so early and Kage was very instrumental. We started strongly and got in kills. Leet became a made (probably the first to convert in the game)...I was working with Pizza and Diana and i dont think they doubted me.
But talking to too many people had its pitfalls and he had given the whole family list to the wrong people :no:


Here is the Barzini QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/iNSZPvm3SdJ

figurehead - Atheotes
Contessa - Veronica "Trouble" Toluso
Disco - Discovery1
Hojo Soun - Kagemusha
Mooks - Leet Erikkson

I think the detectives need to seriously be neutered in the next Capo installment. With the organization they achieved, the game lost the psychological aspect of looking at behavior and became more dependent on simply going through the motions until you found a guilty result. This and AtPG's giant town organization made victory for the mafia families almost impossible.

As for the AtPG lynch the problem was the mafia didn't have many of the heavy hitters in townie manipulation. By the time a lynch was possible GH was dead and the few accusations got lost in the wave of Reenk's and AtPG's accusations.

Add to that - The day he was going to prove himself innocent, the result was ambiguous but our family was outed and he escaped without so much as a question. :laugh4:

and awesome work on the two poems ATPG :2thumbsup:

I am cant believe that when i got outed you refused to acknowledge the fact that i worked with you :whip:

Oh yeah... before i got lynched i sent out all the names of the people who were working with you in the protection groups thorugh ther courier. I think i hinted Chaotix had a power role because a couple of your closest allies were protecting him.

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Originally Posted by atheotes

I am cant believe that when i got outed you refused to acknowledge the fact that i worked with you :whip:

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You were doing protections, yes, but none were successful... there was no way to vouch for you not being a Don. :shrug:

I wasn't going to be seen defending you like I did for GH, thanks. :2thumbsup:

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Oh yeah... before i got lynched i sent out all the names of the people who were working with you in the protection groups thorugh ther courier. I think i hinted Chaotix had a power role because a couple of your closest allies were protecting him.

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Yes, and from information Sigurd had given me, I knew you were the leak. It's in my massive CIA operative progress log post, in purple text. No one should think that Chaotix was important to me except for a few key people, because on a whim I protected him, and it sounded exactly like your reasoning.

EDIT: Just read your quicktopic. :2thumbsup: Nice work during the game, good strategy. It seems I ended up distracting your family as well... the targets were the basic townies around me.

Awesome stuff. Thanks Seamus and all for a fun game/read.

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Originally Posted by CR

Well it certainly had style in spades. Though the debut made me very nervous (especially after Jolt was killed while eating a rabbit). I'm very surprised not a single person questioned it in the game. I guess we've come a long way since AggonyDuck got lynched after a victim was killed by a flock of ducks.

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Actually, I think I did say I would laugh if you were the Rabbit killer. :laugh4:


:bow: Thanks again all :bow:

I read up to night three of the summary. I am drooling for more, Seamus. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Awesome stuff. Thanks Seamus and all for a fun game/read.

Actually, I think I did say I would laugh if you were the Rabbit killer. :laugh4:

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Ah, yes, and I steadfastly ignored the post. :beam: But you didn't actually question me about it. ~;p

CR

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Originally Posted by Lord Winter

I think the detectives need to seriously be neutered in the next Capo installment. With the organization they achieved, the game lost the psychological aspect of looking at behavior and became more dependent on simply going through the motions until you found a guilty result. This and AtPG's giant town organization made victory for the mafia families almost impossible.

As for the AtPG lynch the problem was the mafia didn't have many of the heavy hitters in townie manipulation. By the time a lynch was possible GH was dead and the few accusations got lost in the wave of Reenk's and AtPG's accusations.

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The detectives thing did influence play, but it wasn't the key element.

When Arach went down so quickly and Rhyf staid off the reservation, there really wasn't much of a communist menace. I had thought the Questionable/Loyal readings wouldn't help them much, but the byproduct of FBI level investigations still generated a bit of role etc. info which they did use to advantage. If I play this card again, they'll ONLY get counter-info unless they are Town or Town FBI.

Other mafia troubles were: Partial play by Veronica; Imperator revealing role to non family early, Disco revealing role to Prole; GH being too obvious a choice for early investigation. ALL of these factors contributed to a quick winnowing of the Mafia or limitation in their ability to kill. Most of the kills ended up being townie or SK.

I think the only way that you lynched Pizza was if Sigurd coordinated it, and early on he was playing buddy-buddy. By the later game, the mafia lacked the numbers.

We came close during the double lynch on me and Sasaki, though. If Joooray hadn't voted, we would've flooded the votes on ATPG and tied him with the lead vote recipient(s). Of course, there was still khaan to contend with :stare:

To expand on what Sasaki said about guilty results for different roles, it was ironic that the mechanisms designed to help mades and dons - making them appear criminal if not killing, or innocent if they got new mades - ended up being used effectively by the town to hunt down the mafia.

CR

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Other mafia troubles were: Partial play by Veronica; Imperator revealing role to non family early, Disco revealing role whole family including wiseguys to Prole; GH being too obvious a choice for early investigation. ALL of these factors contributed to a quick winnowing of the Mafia or limitation in their ability to kill. Most of the kills ended up being townie or SK.

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fixed it :beam:

The whole always showing up as innocent and then also being unable to do protections really meant I couldn't do anything at night... or at least successfully do anything at night... I found this to be a big problem which is why i was avoiding pizza...

I'd like to thank all the guys I worked with, but specifically ScottishRanger who had us running brilliantly at the start and got us some useful contacts, and CrazedRabbit who took over SR's role not long after his death.. I was a figure head that gave confirmation...

I don't think I did to well TBH, let down the family slightly... just couldn't pull off the lie...

On the up side I think my family did a large poriton of the mafia killing...

Here's Mine SR (luca) Cneturion (made) Woad and CR's quicktopic...

http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/mKucAfuNUnBn

I wanted ATPG dead from round 2-3, with not much other support I thought it best to go for him in the night... by the time we got around to that it was too late...

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

More summary to come as time permits. Will also list victory result next to each player (and if anyone knows how to import an excel properly into here will earn a little gratitude and a balloon from me. The formatting above sucks.

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I know the feeling. This board is supposed to have a table format - like the one found in the rule FAQ.
I couldn't get it to work though.

In the end I just took a screen shot of the excel sheet and posted the picture in the game thread.
I don't know if that is an idea? Since it is a display of results and not a dynamic working table it could be the solution you want.