I suppose i never really stick them into a prolonged melee - i always use them for quick flank attacks, then run them away again - useful for that, and cheap enough too compared to other similar cavalry.Quote:
Originally Posted by seienchin
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I suppose i never really stick them into a prolonged melee - i always use them for quick flank attacks, then run them away again - useful for that, and cheap enough too compared to other similar cavalry.Quote:
Originally Posted by seienchin
The hoplitai haploi are decent. I used them in early-game Epeiros when I created an Illyrian stack (4 hoplitai haploi, 2 phylectoi Illyrioi, 3 Illyrioi Hippeis, 1 Hippeis Tarantinoi, 2 akontistai). They served fairly well against the Illyrian soldiers in Dalminion.
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...t_elephant.gif
These are good for killing romans.... mmm......:smash:
agreed... but it's hardly surprising isn't it jebiveter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebivjetar
They are as surprisingly good as getting kicked in the balls is surprisingly painful.Quote:
Originally Posted by anubis88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rilder
Yeah, youre right. Anyway, once when ive foolishly send them on a unit of triari (i was so thirsty for some roman blood, and i could not resist) they did not win the battle... :oops:
Yeah elephants can be a bit fragile at time, i still hate fighting them though, especially in the Indian cities!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebivjetar
The Ethiopian spearmen aren't half bad for defensive actions. However, I was disappointed with the elite rhomphaiaphoroi. Perhaps I wasn't using them right.
keep them away from missle fire, they're ur dedicated chopper guys. Very fine heavy infantry, just somewhat limited in tactical roles. Definatly more than their worth if u use them in the right situation tho.
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I wasn't expecting wonders form these guys the first time i used them, but they've proved surprisingly resilient in hand to hand against most infantry and cavalry to the extent i usually have at least 3 or 4 in most of my AS levant area armies acting as line-pluggers/phalanx flank protectors.
Racist. :clown:
:laugh4: lol not why i wasn't expecting much - more their skirmisher kinda look - wasn't expecting them to be decent line pluggers too!Quote:
Originally Posted by A Very Super Market
Hellenic spearmen are better and are cheaper and can be hired in the same places or right next to where you get them.
I believe ioudai taxeis have like 25% more men and thus it entirely depends upon their role... More men = more javelins = more dead enemies per volley = faster enemy rout... For def purposes, I agree: thureophoroi are awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdragon
Ioudaioi Taxeis and Pantodapoi/Machimoi Phalangitai make an excellent and fairly cheap combination in early campaign.
Simply: NO!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdragon
The Jews are better. They have more men, higher morale and higher range. :book:
and semitists/human rights watch would travel back in time to throw lawyers at our enemies if they do so much as laying a finger on them.
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...ai_komatai.gif
When I was running my Dacian campaing, the humble Komatai (Dacian Skirmisher) was the backbone of the force. Cheap, numerous, but above all surprisingly solid. I have a tendency for employing skirmishers in very aggressive manner, but of all the ones i've used, these have been the only ones that I can honestly say have never make me wish I'd invested in some 'proper' combat infantry (though the Getai certainly allow access to those too). Their missiles tended to have little impact but put them in a knife-fight and they did me proud.
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...halangitai.gif
They're the cheapest and probably crappiest of the phalanx troops, and they certainly do get overmatched at times, but I find I rarely have reason to care. They're reliable, they can overpower many units by simple dint of wholly respectable stats and the basic strengths of the phalanx formation, and against the heaviest foes they do a sterling job holding on until I can surround the enemy. And I can keep my armies stacked with a goodly number for a reasonable price. I just dont see why I would pour masses of funds into buying 'better' phalanx troops who can do the job I need them for only marginally better than the humble Hellenic Native Phalanx.
Pretty sure they have less moral. Also more men don't help them, Hellenic Spearmen still rip through them despite being cheaper and come with a larger recruitment area.Quote:
Originally Posted by seienchin
Misunderstanding - I don't think anyone else meant "one on one" - but rather which works out better in which role when supporting a whole army...
Like I said, if you want to use them to kill phalangites in an envelopment move by throwing javelins, ioudai taxeis are better, but for a defensive, "hold-the-line"- role and vs. cavalry and any frontal against infantry, thureophoroi are far better.
Is it possible that the original reference to "hellenic spearmen" a few posts ago actually meant the "pantodapoi"?
Back on topic:
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...s_hoplitai.gif
I have somehow managed to win some battles with these guys - but they die much too fast for hoplites. Calling them something like "crap" would go too far - but they are certainly not the "hold main battle line" troops suggested by the word "hoplitai"...
I never said that the ioudai taxeis were the best option available for their tactical role - rather that i was pleasantly surprised when i did use them, and they tend to fit in rather well with my RP'ing with the AS. And are thureophoroi not more expensive than the ioudai taxeis?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdragon
This has maybe already been raised, but i think the missile units (Totoxi(?)) in particular, run a little too fast? It's almost impossible to catch them without the light cavalry, and then only just. Surely the heavy cavalry should have an easy job of chasing them down. Perhaps the speed of cavalry is too slow?
I don't remember if these guys were mentioned, but they are monsters when defending my walls... They almost always get the better of the Ptolemaic Thorakites. In my last siege, they killed 310 of the ptolemaic kleurichon agema and thorakitai. They fought to the last man, really got the job done
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Maybe your cavalry unit was exhausted.:dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by zarker
EDIT:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdragon
Enough with just stats. Tested them and the Jews won with 80 Deaths to 90 Deaths plus rout on the hellene side.
The Ioudaoi taxeis are actually more expensive than the Thureporoi, but in Melee by far better!
Yeah just had a look there, the Ioudaoi taxeis are a bit more expensive :oops: The higher unit number also comes in handy for garrison duty, although in saying that i usually use Pantodapoi Phalangitai instead - cheaper, and a phalanx. Still loving the Ioudaoi taxeis as line-fillers - helping me win back the arche! :smash:Quote:
Originally Posted by seienchin
Yes - but your results are likely as they are because you had the AI play the thureophoroi and the AI NEVER uses def mode (not in my game anyway - even with classical hoplites)...Quote:
Originally Posted by seienchin
I'm having trouble imagining a unit of thureophoroi routing to ioudai taxeis when properly handled.
Suprised that they're good? No. Suprised they are that good? Oh yes!
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...n_kambojas.gif
The aforementioned Anatolian Hillmen are also wonderful. Cheap as chips and killers of all things armoured. Latest victims Klerouch Agema Phalangitai.
Also
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/i/u...akontistai.gif
Nor quite as good as curepos, but they do the job nicely.
I let them fight AI vs Ai...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachtmeister
And Im not sure if its Darthmod, but something in my EB let some Units of the Ki have the Defense mode from the start of the battle so they had it. Anyway why should they win? they have two more Defense, same atack and less men. There is no way they can win... Thats why the Iodaioi Taxeis got more expensive in the newer EB Versions.
I save the cavalry purely to counter the missile units. But they do generally get exhausted trying to catch them - the heavy cvl anyway. It's nice that routing units don't all get run down by them though, and more realistic that most of the casualties come from the actual fighting, not in the routing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apázlinemjó
Interesting that one of the quotes in RTW is "The enemy is more hurt by desertion than by slaughter". Which kind of puts me in mind of Achilles being AWOL in the opening scenes of "Troy". :) I'm also thinking of the TV series ROME, where Pompey explains to Lucius that he lost the battle due to his unit routing and being wiped out. But as long as the enemy is decimated on the battlefield, who cares how it's achieved so long as it's entertaining.
Which makes me think - is it still a good tactic to flank an opposing army to try and get them to rout, or is it purely down to number of casualties now?