wow everyone is busy posting now, yes i agree the map we are using now is very limited how hard would it be to make a new one? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-dizzy2.gif
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wow everyone is busy posting now, yes i agree the map we are using now is very limited how hard would it be to make a new one? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-dizzy2.gif
Very.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
azid
I need singular forms as well.
I think it si possible to add the units You proposed.
SwordsMaster
Are the Russians going to have any religious agents? I am just wondering because noone mentioned it before.
Some kind of orthodox priest.
DEAD MOROZ
Please check these names
Kormovye Draguny ( Dragun)or Komarits Draguny ( Dragun)
Inozemniy Reytary - Inozemniy Reytar
Datochnye Gorodovye ( and Vybrannye) Mushketery
Datochnye Gorodovye ( and Vybrannye) Kopeyshchiki
Think that Russians must have a kind of harquebusers in Early period. I'll give you the name and description later. Also I'll give descriptions for other units soon.
They should use mercenary arquebusiers I believe - firearms were quite rare at that time in eastern Europe ( Poland, Hungary and so on).
ABOUT AGENTS - the list
in early - only weak bishops ( catholic and orthodox) and protestant preachers ( impressive conversion rating).
in high - Counter-reformation begins - so Jesuits, but onlyfor certain factions - 'tolerant' factions won't be able to produce any religious agents at all ( converting only using buildings, fortunatelly).
SO
Catholic Bishop - small conversion power, not for every faction, though.
Orthodox Priest - quite high conv. power, affects zeal as well.
Protestant Preacher - high conv. power, affects zeal.
Jesuit - high conv. power, affects zeal.
Papal Legate - Pope only, with very little influence on religion.
Inquisitor - Spain and Portugal only ( ?).
About Muslim I don't know.
TO ALL - about factions - the list is on page 7 with the units for the mod. Firs read, second write.
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
I edited the list of Russian units - changed some names and dates, added harquebusers for Early era. Check up my post on page 14.
@Dead Moroz:Woulnt it better be kopeyniki?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
@Hetman, Im happy enough with the religious agents.
Maybe. But kopeyshchiki is more widespread word, at least in modern Russian language.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
@Dead Moroz, ok, no prob http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif
Suggestion: Make almos all of the units region-specific. Because the most of the armies recruited not only in their homelands but abroad as well, or will that be depictedby the merc resource?
Kormovye Draguny and Komarits Draguny are just common Dragoons (Draguny - see my list of Russian units). Kormovye means that they own land for service in army. Komarits is the name of town Komarits in the south of Russia where that squad of Dragoons lived.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Inozemniye Reytary are just Reiters (Reytary). Inozemniye means western style here. Every Reiters in Russia were Inozemniye (so this word is not necessary).
Gorodovye means garrison in town. It's not a kind of troops but just a place of service.
Datochnye Mushketery and Datochnye Kopeyshchiki are just Mushketery (or Soldaty) and Kopeyshchiki. Datochnye means they were conscripted. Soldaty and Kopeyshchiki were Western style infantry in Russia. They were recruited by two ways: 1 - hired for payment; 2 - conscripted from among countryside and maybe town population.
Vybrannye were guardsmen. Vybrannye means chosen (axemen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif ). They were not an unique type of troops. There were just squads of common Streltsy, Soldaty, Draguny, etc. consisted of better soldiers and garrisoned in Moscow (the capital of Russia that time). It's not necessary to make a separate unit for Vybrannye (Guard). The role of Vybrannye may play units with higher morale, defense, attack, etc. statistics they got after successful battles.
suggestion here: If you build certain building that increases valor or something, you could name the units to Vybranniye to reflect that they were slightly superior, but that is a more esthetic issue.
Another suggestion: We could call all the units built as mercenaries Inozemnye because they were not russian, but mercenaries, and so were strangers which is what the word means.
BTW, Soldat does not mean musketeer or any other type of troop, but any man that served for pay (i.e. professional) it comes from the french Sould (pay) which comes from latin solidus that was the type of coin the soldiers were paid with.
BTW, the word wasn´t used till the Louis XIV reforms of the french army.
musketman - musketerare same in singular and plural
pikeman - pikenerare same in singular and plural
horseman - ryttare from german Reitar (SP?) same in singular and plural
cavalry - kavalleri
Do you really need it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Just chose (vybrat) the best squads among your troops and merge them into one army guarding your king or/and capital. So these units will be Vybranniye (Chosen). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif
No No No Russian Inozemniye troops were not mercenaries... Almost not. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif Almost because at the beginning they were mercenaries consisted of foreign people. But soon Russians (not mercenaries) became the backbone of these troops, foreigner were officers only. These squads was called Inozemniye (verbatim foreign) not because they consisted of mercenaries, but because they tried to copy western armament and tactics. I suspect that in Russia of XVII century the term Western meant rather Polish then German, English, French, etc.. Russian Inozemniye troops most likely looked like Polish dragoons, musketeers, pikemen, etc. I'll try to find out more info about this question.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
As I know, Soltad/Soldaty was the name of infantry units of Inozemniye troops - musketeers and pikemen. Maybe unofficial name. Maybe it appeared only in the end of XVII century. No doubt this name has French or Latin origins. That troops were a copy of western troops and they were the first Russian troops who served for pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Soldier was any man who served for money, so I guess the russians just adopted the french term from the germans or poles as they adopted their tactics.
About the chosen, you are possibly right, there isn´t much point.
About the mercs, well I know you are right, but I still kinda like the idea that that way you can express their foreign procedence.
BTW, as far as I know there were very little inozemniy troops in Russia til Peter the great. some Royal guards, and 2 polka of musketeers, and a similar number of cavalry. That was all.
I've thought it too before. But now I have better information. The number of inozemniy cavalry was not very big, much lesser then number of pomestnaya cavalry (common Russian cavalry). But the number of inozemniy infantry was really great; if I understood right, in the middle of 17 century it was much more then number of streltsy (traditional Russian infantry).Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I uploaded some of the files I made to My Pages, so you can see them now. I added battle flags (6) and portraits (115). The new info pics I'll add later.
Regards,
EC
Russian Husaria 'Gusary'- the stats
speed - normal 10/20/18 - they had good horses, but not so resilient as polish, but cheaper I believe.
armour 4 - I've read they had less armour than the Polish Husaria.
charge 9, attack 3 ( not so skilled, worse weaponry), +2 attacking cavalry ( same lances, not sure they had wings though), the same defence, morale 6 ( Husaria has 8) because not use loose formation so often, fighting in 1 rank ( not so skilled to use deep and packed knee-to-knee formation).
formation - FORMED, but not so narrow as the polish unit.
Less expensive, but will require 2 years to build, in Novgorod only.
SwordsMaster
Well, ok, make them slower, but I am saying that the russians had access to german and turkish horses aswell,
German horses were too heavy to use them in Husaria.
wilpuri
.. But its up to you what to make of it.
I want as many interesting units as possible, including all regional ones, that's what I'm asking for translations.
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
@EC, You included Richelieu with the Venetians.
About Charles V portraits, use the one where he is wearing armor for a general, and the other one for Charles himself. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif We get 2 for the price of 1.
Richelieu is where he is because I don't yet have enough French portraits and still I wanted to put all I have there. And after Richelieu, those are Genoese Doges, not Venetians, which are a bit further. There is a sign saying GENOESE after Richelieu's portrait. Don't actually pay too much attention where are some certain portraits as I simply wanted to present as much of them on relatively small space, so they aren't perfectly divided into specific factions (there are eg. some Spanish portraits among those I called Dutch etc.).Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I was thinking, it may be difficult to have complete different sets of portraits for every and each faction (about 60-100 per one category - general etc.). What's more, some of the portraits for Genoese, Spanish, Venetians, Dutch, look very much alike. What would you say for having a certain amount of common portraits, obviously with some reasonable number of faction-specific portraits (for kings, princes, princesses, some most important generals etc.)? It doesn't have to be that way, but more portraits are needed. And I really mean more (some couple of hundreds).
Regards,
EC
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-oops.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif sorryQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Yes, I thought abput that too, Maybe leave the kings and princes faction-specific and put everything else in a general pool, except the turks, because they are kinda obvious http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif .Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
I´ll try to find more portraits anyway. Anyhing from that timeframe will serve, right?
there you can probably get 2-3 pics.
You can get Velazquez himself and a couple of ladies from here
maybe another pic can be extracted from here
another pic here
Velazquez himself here
the pope Inocencio
another picture here
and another one here
the prince Ferdinand here
The queen Isabel de Borbon there
another picture
some paintings by Titian can be found here
another pic here
a gentleman
another Pope here
Thats it for now. If there is any problem give me a shout http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
If hakkapeliitta infantry is going to be included, then they're only special quality might be that they're cheaper.. And they should be called Finnish Pikemen/ Finnish Infantry/ Finnish musketeers or Finska Pikenerare/ Finska MusketerareQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Well, he's wearing armor in all three pics. Let's say the one where he's wearing a helmet is 1, next to the right is 2, and so the next one is 3. So now which should be used for a general and which one for His Highness Emperor Carlos V Habsburg?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
And about the links to portraits you've provided, there are some usable pics there, thanks. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
Regards,
EC
Hakkapeliittas were the Finnish cavalry of the Swedish army. Gustaf II Adolf significantly developed the tactics and training of the army, making the Swedish army possibly the most efficient during the 30 Years War. The light cavalry had an important mobile role in the tactics. As the voluntary Finnish cavalry had many of the better horses (in contrast to smaller Swedish horses) and able men it became a feared elite force during the 17th century.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
-from one of my schoolbooks
I think number 1 should be the gen, and number 3 the Emperor and just get rid of numb 2.
When can we expect a release of this mod? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
I know that, but I've also read, that some of the Finnish infantry was called Hakkapeliittas as well because they used the same battle cry. Not much difference between the infantry conscripted in Sweden at the time, so I don't know if a separate unit for Finnish infantry will be needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
2 Eastside Character
Nice pic for description of Polish Hussars:
http://www.soldiers-russia.com/new_s...europe/po1.JPG
UNITS
There are going to be five categories of units in the mod.
1. For everybody, everywhere
- very few units - some types of urban militia and peasant-like units
example - Town militia in the unit list.
2. Regional units in certain provinces for everybody
e.g. Moldavian Cavalry
3. Regional units, but for certain factions only.
e.g. most of Cossack units
4. Mercenaries - recruitable in provinces with this trade good
e.g. Mercenary Arquebusiers
5. National units in homelands
- most of units in the mod
+ of cource 'normal' mercenaries possible to hire in INN.
This way some provinces are going to be very important even though they
do not offer high income, good provincional titles or else.
Dead Moroz
I used the names from the webside to which You got the link.
if I understood right, in the middle of 17 century it was much more then number of streltsy (traditional Russian infantry).
----In the 1663 the Russian field army against Poland consisted of:
- 42 Infantry regiments - 24,377 men
- 8 Dragoon regiments - 9,334
- 22 Reiter regiments - 18,795
- 2 Lancer regiments - 1,185
- 1 Hussars - 757------------- these are only the numbers of 'western' russian units, and it was after crushing defeats in 1660.
----About russian arquebusiers - they can have the unit, but will not be able to build mercenary arquebusiers or any other mercenary 'western' units from 'early'.
I UPDATED UNIT LIST (PAGE 7) ADDING NATIONAL NAMES - PLEASE CHECK.
For now I added two types of Russian conscripts, but maybe I'll remove
'chosen' units.
BTW - I asked the guy who wrote the description of XVIIth century russian army and according to him russian husaria was using 'wings' as well.
Regards Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
This pic may be useful for description of nomad warriors:
1. Adygei (Northern Caucasia)
2. Nogay
3. Kalmyk (Volga basin)
http://www.ruslan-com.ru/zotov/turk_5.jpg
Hetman
Why is Georgia in a list of the factions, which won't be in the first release? :)
Regards, Datka
nope maybe if we have a lot of room over for more varied units but youre right it really isnt necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...gc-curtain.gif shhh im coming for you
what else can I do o mighty leaders?