17th century

From the Tsar,
No, you bribe my citizens with promises of riches you don't have! You say you will give the boyars more land, but in reality all you will be doing is decieving them into voting for your fool puppet ruler. You have insulted me by invading me and now you do not have the humility to leave things the way they were? You cannot invade, decide to back out yet think you are the one who should be making requests. Nay, it is the other way around. I will be the first to suggest peace, but never will I abdicate my throne, especially to a Polish pretender. I am in a position to make demands, not you. I do not have a giant army of savage Turkish warriors poised to wreak havoc on the heartland and destroy my cities. If I am correct, that is you. Apparently, you hold very little to sway my mind. I advise you to rethink your proposition. I would like you to know that I am an incredibly stubborn ruler, so this constant suggesting of the same proposition does no good. Revise your deal!

Fom his most Holy Majesty, The Emperor of the German Nation.

So called "brother", that is the king of Spain, the time for bandying soft words was past long ago, when you betrayed us by withdrawing support for me when I protected the road through Julich-Kleve on you're request.
Do not presume that we have respect enough for you (if any at all) to allow you to condescend to us as a mediator.
As for that man with a false throne, the pretender to the Russian throne, I would have expected you to denounce a man who lost the election for the throne, as you seem to wish peace. As for any claims on behalf of that traitor of Brandenburg, did you not hear his accusations? That I was falsley elected? That I had brought a holy war onto the lands of Germany? The fact that I had not demanded any support, but merley asked, as I would wage war through my own inherited lands, did not spring to anyones minds. Indeed that fool of a Russian imediatley sprang upon me. Niether did it come to you're esteemed Lords that he was infact a traitor to his Emperor. Has it niether come to you're attentions that I was most generous to the people of Bohemia? That I spared everyone and allowed them to practice their religion? Yet I am deemed the instigator, when I had done nothing to Brandenburg, indeed I was going to leave him alon, since he had withdraw support from the rebels.
But, as per usual, France and Russia's greed for Imperial land made them willing to accept the lies of Brandenburg. I offered him a fair trial, by which I swore my honour. Yet he scorned me. What am I to do? When France threatens me with war if I do not protect my honour and Empire. I a Hapsburg am to be made to heel to a Frenchman!
You who so wish war upon me, will have it, but not before you're soldiers fear the night they sleep on German lands, not before the people turn them into women, crying for their mothers.
For we true Germans detest nothing moret han the foreign heel upon German soil.

Do the Nations of Europe see how we are stopped at every proposition of peace? The Muscovite Vasili has time and again rejected the olive branch the Poland has offered to avoid further conflict. We can still fight, don't think that we will bow before the pressures of three nations so easily. We seek to avoid further conflict, war, famine, destruction, and a larger war, so that we don't smash our heads into a wall, and ruin our country in the process.
I've been approached by the French, with an offer to mediate a peace deal. I have accepted that offer.
My request are:
Swedes return conquest and sign a five year armistice, for a 1000 ducats/skalders
Ottomans officially proclaim ending of the conflict between us, and I will do everything within my royal power to curb the Cossacks of the Dnieper, the Zaphorojans, and keep them from your homes and borders.
The Boyars be assembled in Moscow, and they hold an election. The French or Spanish moderate this vote. Cease-fire is in effect for the entire election. The Polish will withdraw from the city. Whoever is elected shall rule Muscovy, and the other will leave Muscovy. Then a five-year armisitice is signed to ensure peace between our nations.

This is a plea, a call, to end this bloodshed where it started, my fear of the Muscovite threat. Their boyars, soldiers, warriors, who stand at my borders.
Nations of Europe, support this fair, judicial, and constitutional deal. Vasili has my word, if he gains the throne, The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth will withdraw their candidate and troops. May the Lord Almighty send a thunderbolt to kill me if I don't stand by my word.

Oh Vasili, why do you fear your countrymen? Why do you fear what the Almighty God decides in their minds? The Polish and Russian throne will be kept seperate, and if Wladyslaw takes the throne, he will be disinherited by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, another man on another throne.

We appeal to the Boyars, call on Vasili to join in this election. Do you want to see more bloodshed, more famine, more warfare sweep across your estates? For one man's stubborn hubris? We will carry on this war as long as Vasili does, but if you desire peace and comfort, call on him to end this war!

Nations of Europe see how I try and beg for peace that is better than having a war that the manpower of the Poland-Lithuanian Commonwealth can drag on. Our manpower pools are a well to your barrels of men. We seek a mediated peace between the main aggressors, the two who started the conflict, not to end a war with his allies who only seek to gain land at the Commonwealth's expense.

The Tsar says he is considering your more descriptive proposal, but he will not sign an armstice with the "Holy" Roman Emperor.
Matthias, we all have our short comings, yet do not judge the King of Spain. In every one's mind he is a fair and just man, with no need to break treaties without a perfectly good reason.

This proposal is Commonwealth to Russia, Sweden, Ottomans.
The Holy Roman Emperor is not involved in this dispute, and has nothing to say on this matter.

Much better! The Tsar is still thinking this through.

His most Holy Lord, the Emperor of Germany.
Why should you, false lord upon a false throne wish any armistice with us, whom you are not at war with? Again you show you're willingness to stea German Lands. My Lords, may wish to not attack Ottoman lands, that is their due, yet the Holy Roman Emperor shall not wither from such a task.
To the French, note carefully, that if you declae war on us next year, we shall not be so merciful as we were to the Bohemian rebels.

Praise be to Allah, the merciful and compassionate for He has once again seen it fit to have peace between his children! ... However may he also grant strenght to all those who feel threatened and who oppose the despoty of the Kaiser. May the almighty's retribution be swift and terrible so that this tyrant shall never again threaten his brothers!

OOC: I accept the peace offerings...

OT:What about decisions for the next chapter?

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth commends the Sultan for his wise judgement to end this conflict.

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Swedes return conquest and sign a five year armistice, for a 1000 ducats/skalders

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OCC: Payed by you to me?

Sweden also demands that poland return her conquests in Livona to sweden.

The Tsar agrees to the Armstice! A joyous day for all!

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Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar

His most Holy Lord, the Emperor of Germany.
Why should you, false lord upon a false throne wish any armistice with us, whom you are not at war with? Again you show you're willingness to stea German Lands. My Lords, may wish to not attack Ottoman lands, that is their due, yet the Holy Roman Emperor shall not wither from such a task.
To the French, note carefully, that if you declae war on us next year, we shall not be so merciful as we were to the Bohemian rebels.

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Oh glorious Augustus!

All nations bow in front of your wisdom.
France will not declare war after the next turn. If you read 328, you see that this is already done!


To all:
France is glad to hear that the conflicts around Poland and Russia are going to be settled. This news is the best wedding gift!

Just a small point re tsar treaty - apart from voting who should hold the Muscovy city, does it also apply to who owns the other cities that were part of the Muscovy faction? Because Vasili would at this time know that he can't be entirely sure of winning the election, so the peace offer from Poland is dangerous...

I'll be back to answer all questions etc. in a few days

The Spanish/French will have a hundred troops there to ensure peace and correct voting procedure.
What Polish conquest in Livonia? All the land is ours. I'm paying you for war problems, since we only fight for money and allies, not because of any actual problems.
So we have Russia, Ottomans, and maybe Swedes. Everyone please send a PM to Legio, halting all troop movements, attacks, etc.

The King of Spain has agreed to send 500 men to ensure there are no pressures from either side in the great city of Moskow. He counts on the honour of the King of Poland to ensure that these men get to the city and back to Naples safely, and requests that both candidates to the throne leave the city for as long as the election process is going on.

His Catholic Majesty is glad to hear that the conflict will have a peaceful resolution. We would like to suggest, that whoever loses the election for the crown, is granted a place in the Duma to be able to contribute to the affairs of the country in the future.

To the HR Emperor, Matthias, what is wrong with you? Is it war you seek with me? I tried defending your best interests that were mine, but when I got involved in war you failed to assist me yet you expect me to protect your borders? Do You think I'm a fool? Now when I remove myself from this conflict in the best interest of my realms and serfs you accuse me of treason! I will not tolerate such an uncanny lack of decency.

If there is another insult directed to the King of Spain, my troops will march into Germany. You are not welcome at the wedding party anymore!

Regarding the Russian Election:

France offers his assistance. However, we would like to know more before we decide how to help,

Who is allowed to vote? I guess only a limited number of noblemen, right? Do they come to one place to vote at a time? Does it have to be Moscow? Could there be another place, that is easier to control. Maybe even a meeting abraod? Is there a discussion before or during the election? What should be the role of the French/Spanish troops? Observation or securing? Some hundreds of soldiers may not be enough to protect the meeting.

I assume that both Russian sides guarantee safety and supply of the French troops. I also expect that the safe march to and from Russia will be guaranteed.

From theThe Tsar:
I would know like to tell the boyars that if there is no Vasili, there will be no Mikahil to keep Russia safe. I strongly urge all the boyars to vote for Vasili! A vote for me will serve the country, not to mention you! (Hell if GW Bush got reelected, why can't Vasili?) I ask of you to not be ruled by a Polishman, but by a fellow Russian.
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Also, the Tsar wants to reform the Boyar system! He wants the Boyars to have more of a say instead of being just advisors. The Tsar acknowledges his mistake in making such haste to fight Poland. All wars will now be voted upon. Every year, all Boyars will vote for the foreign policies. The Tsar also wants to point out that he will not have a vote, rather, he will act as a moderator during these votes. The Tsar, though, will still have control of military strategies, yet he will listen to the advice of the Boyars.
I am not sure if I can safely enter Moscow currently. I suggest Novorgood, for I can control it definitely and provide safety
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Kaiser, your rigid foreing policies are making you extremely unpopular with all. It seems as though you are trying to start wars so that the other Catholic nations will be excommunicated and only you will recieve the blessing of the Pope, but know this: Russia and the Ottoman Empire have no religious boundaries against war with you! You seem to be obsessed with poking the Lion with a stick, knowing that soon its cage will be opened.

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Originally Posted by IrishArmenian

why can't Vasili?

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Before you took command over Vasili, he got to power by killing the former tsar False Dmitriy I. There has been a long civil war, including the quite turbulent time of Boris Godunov followed by almost total chaos during which the many False Dmitriy pretenders appeared and several tsar pretenders thus fought for power. In the middle of this mess, the boyars, as was common for nobles and powerful people of the time, saw a chance to exploit the weakness to strengthen themselves, by assisting whichever side granted them the best offers. Vasili was one of these boyars. He was initially supported by many of the Russian boyars because they believed he would grant them more advantages than the previous Tsar, but his supporters quickly changed sides when they saw an even better opportunity of pressuring more advantages, especially after Vasili had gotten too powerful for their tastes. They knew that a Polish puppet on the Tsar position would be easy for the boyars to control, since the Polish would consider it excellent to see Russia as a military threat (more for their numbers, economy, difficult logistics to conquer through normal campaigning, and future military potential than for their tactics and troop quality) out of the picture. In return, the Russian boyars would get peace during which they could pursue their interests more actively - so the treaty would gain both the boyars and the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. Historically, the Polish king at the last minute decided to not have his heir convert to orthodox faith, and instead tried to take the Tsar position from himself, something that resulted in a disaster for the Polish. After the Polish forces run out of economical support for their campaigning, unpaid troops and desertion was followed by a big Russian revolt led by some of the poorer Russians from Nizniy Novgorod destroying the 6,000 man strong Polish Muscoy garrison by besieging them within Muscoy.

Secondly, the "nobles gaining influence" thing of the era was (unlike the institutions which also allowed a voice for merchant classes and even peasants) hardly any form of democracy or idealism, as the nobles often wanted different things than the people - strengthened rights at the expense of freedom to own land etc. for the peasants working for them, often resulting in near slavery or at the very least a proletariat without almost any rights at all. This set off something that could have become what the French, American and Russian revolutions were already during the 17th century. There was one major Russian revolt during Boris Godunov, which was defeated not without trouble, and a very large Polish revolt (a few decades after the current time of the Interactive), which played a major role in the gradual Polish weakening which ended their era of greatness. In many ways, the earliest cases of absolutism in Europe during this period could often even be more benefitial for the peasants and other poor than oligarchy consisting of the nobility usually was.

Touche, Legio. But I stand firm! I must have peace and the Russian throne!
By the way, when is the next chapter?

I would allow Tver. Troops and diplomats can assemble there from both sides, since it is between the two nations, it can be access by both. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth asks that the Spanish and French take ships to either Novograd or Ryga, then the Poles or Rus will secure your transport to Tver.
The French and Spanish are there to defend the Duma assemblage building from any rebels, and secure the officiality and fairness of the vote. The Poles and Rus will not enter within a mile of the City, and the armistice will be extended from now on. No more warfare, combats, fights or intentional sort between the Polish and Russian troops.
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Wladyslaw has issued a proclimation to all the Boyars of Muscovy, Novograd, and the lands of the Rus.
I am here to ensure peace, tranquility, and domestic prosperity for the nation of the Rus. The Boyars will be given rights such ability to elect Tsar of Russia. Boyars will be given the rights that are held by the nobility of the Commonwealth. The Right to Religion, Right to Veto, Right to own serfs.
My heritage of Polish-Lithuania will be revoked by my father, and I will become a Rus if I am elected. Rights wil be maintained, and the Boyars may call the Duma together whenever they chose to address problematic issues.
I will be baptized by the Russian Orthodox Patriarch, and will become an Orthodox Christian.

From the Tsar:
To ensure good peace, I will send a diplomat as a hostage to the meeting where he will be transferred to Polish hands for the duration of the meeting and more time if needed, but not too much for he has a family and will be needed elsewhere. If I attack you, feel free to kill him, but I must have the meeting in Novorgood. Tver is full of squalor and death from the recent sieges. Novorgood has yet to be touched and currently I have to look after myself. Also, one last request, if I loose the election, I would like to stay as an advisor and a Boyar. No more, no less, just a common Boyar.

Very good, Novograd it is.
You will be allowed to become a boyar, as Wladyslaw if he loses.

The Commander of the Hispano-French force, Don Francisco Laso de la Vega, will take control of 500 spanish soldiers, and join with the french force of 500 men and sail from El Ferrol in Spain, to Brest and then following to Riga. After that, He will wait in port for Polish supplies and guidance to escort him and his force to Novgorod.

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Originally Posted by Marshal Murat

Very good, Novograd it is.
You will be allowed to become a boyar, as Wladyslaw if he loses.

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Thank you, Wladyslaw will be a much respected boyar at that. Probably in charge of Russo-Polish relations. And thank you for saying yes to Novorgood. The thing about Novorgood is that I can currently guarantee safety for you, and I can only do that in few other cities. I assume you accepted the hostage too?

I'm back now, and have answered all unanswered questions I could find. If I forgot some question, just ask it again. Re status of this turn, I'm still awaiting decisions from
BRANDENBURG, ENGLAND, OTTOMAN EMPIRE, SWEDEN, TRANSYLVANIA
correct me if I'm wrong!

Re the Polish-Russian peace, I'll give both sides some appropriate options to choose from next turn.

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Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix

I'm back now, and have answered all unanswered questions I could find. If I forgot some question, just ask it again. Re status of this turn, I'm still awaiting decisions from
BRANDENBURG, ENGLAND, OTTOMAN EMPIRE, SWEDEN, TRANSYLVANIA
correct me if I'm wrong!

Re the Polish-Russian peace, I'll give both sides some appropriate options to choose from next turn.

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So many?! :inquisitive: Come on guys, you've had enough time! :whip:

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Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix

I'm back now, and have answered all unanswered questions I could find. If I forgot some question, just ask it again. Re status of this turn, I'm still awaiting decisions from
BRANDENBURG, ENGLAND, OTTOMAN EMPIRE, SWEDEN, TRANSYLVANIA
correct me if I'm wrong!

Re the Polish-Russian peace, I'll give both sides some appropriate options to choose from next turn.

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I'm pretty sure I sent you my decisions.:smash:

@Csar: yes you are correct! I found your options, but in another place than where I thought I put it ~:) however, your reply for the options 1 and 4 was missing. I remember that you did choose an option there, but it has disappeared from my notes through my clumsiness. Has to do with how I had to go away for a week... All other options for all others should be intact though.

I just sent my actions...

Yep, I've received them ~:)