Kingdoms SecuRom discussion - forum rules only

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Originally Posted by centurie

some of you people make me sick.............have you not noticed the state of pc gaming this last year or so???games are being released with so many bugs that many are unplayerable.
i have just returned to playing M2TW because my old pc found it a struggle, now that i have a high end pc i can now play this everything maxed out, and i have to say it looks and playes fantastic.

Now what does this have to do with this thread....well due to games being jack sparrowed games developers are just throwing out un-optimised games without bothering to spend the time makeing them good.securom is not to stop the jack sparrows but to stop the casual player lending games to friends and using simple dvd copy software from copying the games.

i have never had any problems with securom i don't use daemon tools or anything like that so its never been a problem for me.

if you people keep going on about boycotting games , then in the end you will not have any games to boycott, i was looking farward to three new titles this year........kingdoms.............empire earth 3 and opposing fronts.

i only purchased kingdoms because the other two were nothing short of a rushed mess........many people like me own £1000s of pounds worth of pc hardware only to play crap pc games, the total war series is one of the exceptions that makes pc's worth the price............

so i say too you , go ahead and boycott because in the end when good game developers give it up for the console market you will have nothing left to boycott.

and one more thing........deamon tools .game jackal ..alchole 120.......are all legal but we all know they are used by jack sparrows.......so if securerom stops them working all well and good. just because you have legal software does not make it right. its legal to marry someone for his or her monet ,devorce them then gain half there wealth.........its legal but wrong.
i say anyone who uses that software are using it to pirate games.

i will be buying every expansion that comes from this series..i will always support a good company who makes great products...without them the pc as a gaming platform will go under.

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Oh well so much ignorance I dont know where to begin:
Kingdoms was cracked a day after release: 24 HOURS...read again 2 4 H O U R S
So Securom wont stop people that download this game EVER at least not until the net is tamed through harsh nazi-like laws...
Also sites hosting cracks are based in 0 IP law countries that the western state law enforcement CANNOT touch...
What Securom achieved? Is losing MORE customers while earning 0...
Ive removed Securom and enjoy Kingdoms have a nice day...

Edit - \/ \/ \/ I just saw what you were talking about in the other post. 'Wow' is the only thing I can really say to that. Sorry about jumping you like that marrow.

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Originally Posted by Whacker

marrow, you need to relax mate. I was being extremely sarcastic when talking to Antiochus about Daemon Tools and P2P, I use those tools myself.

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Oh, yeah, I know mate, no worries, I was addressing centurie who just grated on me a little is all.
Ha ha I do actually have a sense of humour lol don't take me for a grim git mate! 'spect

@centurie

well it smakes me sick that it makes u sick that someone else might have a different opinion than yours

does that make any sense :dizzy2:

Slightly off topic - but what the £$*" is a "jack sparrow" & what does it mean?
It sounds a bit like something Dick Van Dyke would say in Mary Poppins!!

Henri

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Originally Posted by Henry707

Slightly off topic - but what the £$*" is a "jack sparrow" & what does it mean?
It sounds a bit like something Dick Van Dyke would say in Mary Poppins!!

Henri

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Pirate, I assume (it's a reference to the character from the Pirates of the Carribean movies)

Just popped by to see if SEGA or CA had chosen to do the right thing and provide an uninstaller. Seems not, so I will return to my boycott of TW games.:skull:

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Originally Posted by gardibolt

Just popped by to see if SEGA or CA had chosen to do the right thing and provide an uninstaller. Seems not, so I will return to my boycott of TW games.:skull:

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I enjoy Kingdoms without the Securom rootkit...learn to google...

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Originally Posted by hellenes

I enjoy Kingdoms without the Securom rootkit...learn to google...

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It's not productive to send a message to CA/Sega that we don't care if they use invasive DRM, because some players can figure out how to remove it. Not all players are going to want to go that far, or are comfortable doing it.

The message we should be sending, is that we won't buy games with invasive DRM, or DRM that isn't uninstalled with the game, in the first place. No sale... no soup for you, unless you treat your customers with some respect. That's especially important with the new Empire game on the horizon. I suspect there are many here that won't be buying that game if they do what they did with Kingdoms.

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Originally Posted by Zenicetus

It's not productive to send a message to CA/Sega that we don't care if they use invasive DRM, because some players can figure out how to remove it. Not all players are going to want to go that far, or are comfortable doing it.

The message we should be sending, is that we won't buy games with invasive DRM, or DRM that isn't uninstalled with the game, in the first place. No sale... no soup for you, unless you treat your customers with some respect. That's especially important with the new Empire game on the horizon. I suspect there are many here that won't be buying that game if they do what they did with Kingdoms.

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Very well said, completely agree.

Btw, mods, please don't use such posts as excuses to close this thread. :bow: Single posts, if deemed violating the forum rules, can be cleaned out of the well mannered thread, you know.
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Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

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Very well said, completely agree.

Btw, mods, please don't use such posts as excuses to close this thread. :bow: Single posts, if deemed violating the forum rules, can be cleaned out of the well mannered thread, you know.
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Did I violate any rules? Because Ive removed an invasive rootkit that was compromising the finansial security of my bank account?

Its also worth noting that under UK law this sort of software is probably illegal, either under the Data Protection Act (as it is designed to gather personal information without the subjects consent) or under the Human Rights Act (as it is an invasion of personal privacy).

Its probably not practical to try and sue the retailers for selling software without informing their customers of the existence of this software in the product. However, it is worth the cost of a telephone call to your local trading standards office just to flag the issue with them and hopefully prompt a government funded investigation into a breach of their own legislation.

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I did not say anything particularly about you Hellenes.
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I love rootkits, since they appeared my PC is a lot more stable. :2thumbsup:

I've been lurking through this thread for a while now, although I feel that it may be time to voice my opinion on SecuROM.

SecuROM is something I have had on my machine for six months. I must admit that I have had only one insignificant problem that may have been related to the system, but that isn't the point I wish to make, its more the fact that a item of software has existed on my machine for so long without my knowledge that frustrates me.

The first thing which alerted me to SecuROM on my machine was something I found in my registry when cleaning up R:TW. I had no idea what "SecuROM" was at the time, and, understanding everything else stored in my registry, I innocently decided to look into it.

After realising that I was "infected" with the software I decided to try and diagnose the games which contained it. Using ProtectionID, I found the games which had inserted the program into my system rather quickly - Caesar IV (Sierra) and The Settlers II 10th Anniversary Edition (Ubisoft).

I then decided to scour the EULAs of both of these games. I'm one of those people who is stupid enough to just flick past the EULA when it comes up during installation - I know I'm never going to break it in anyway, so I don't really see the point of wasting fifteen minutes upon it. Anyway, after reading through them, I was dismayed to find that neither of them told me that they were also installing SecuROM v7.2 on my machine.

I then un-installed both the games - I finished playing them weeks ago, so I didn't really need them any more. I did this hoping it would remove the system. Despite the fact that Kingdoms doesn't delete the files after un-installation, I was pleased to find that that these games did "politely" clean up after themselves.

For me, it wasn't the fact that SecuROM was what it was, it was its existence without my knowledge or consent. Don't get me wrong, I do dislike having intrusive software like SecuROM on my system, and it does discourage me from buying, but I do feel that the former factor, knowing what I'm getting, is more important when I buy any game.

Edit: I take what I said about the games cleaning up after themselves back - I've just found some SecuROM entries in my registry. I'm not very please about it, I must say.

God, I hate hate lawyers, I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. But you know what? When you need one nothing else will do.

The companies that bundle these non-security devices into their products should have F. Lee Baily knocking on their door. Actually, in the US the DoJ should be all over this. It isn't just a thing with games. If there are any lawyers reading these boards please contact me if you want to file a class action suit. I want to be part of it.

It is a good way for a young lawyer to get very wealthy and famous.


On a related note, I'd like to see companies be forced to stop placing install limits on legal copies of software. I replace my computer every 18 months. I have a hard drive that is dedicated to Windows and nothing else and format the drive and reinstall Windows every 6 months. (If you don't think this will improve stability and loading times you haven't tried it) I get tired of having to get a "special authorization code" from Bill & Melinda. :wall:

I am a lawyer, but I have no desire to get involved in class actions. Plus, you hate me.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I am a lawyer, but I have no desire to get involved in class actions. Plus, you hate me.

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I saw that one coming a mile away! :hide:

"If the DRM is unfit, you must not buy it."

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Originally Posted by hellenes

I enjoy Kingdoms without the Securom rootkit...learn to google...

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I have enough calls on my time that I have no desire to spend it researching and removing something that should not be there in the first place. It is much better to just not buy Kingdoms until it is released in a clean state.

You might want to go and tell them that, and join the .coms legions of whiners who swear on their computers screen that they will never buy another total war game but end up hanging around and annoying everybody and buying it anyway, then starting the cycle again. It dosnt really matter to me if CA and SEGA want to protect their games, even with all these other conspiracy theories about spyware and the like. It doesnt harm me or anyone else and when it does, CA will be hearing from a few people. Big style.
My:2cents:

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Originally Posted by Copperknickers

You might want to go and tell them that, and join the .coms legions of whiners who swear on their computers screen that they will never buy another total war game but end up hanging around and annoying everybody and buying it anyway, then starting the cycle again. It dosnt really matter to me if CA and SEGA want to protect their games, even with all these other conspiracy theories about spyware and the like. It doesnt harm me or anyone else and when it does, CA will be hearing from a few people. Big style.
My:2cents:

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haha sorry but to me that sounds like leaving u wallet out in the street and saying

"ok if u r brave enough try and steal it, but be warned i will cause some big noise when u do"

obviously u r pretty confident that u PC and personal data is secure (unless of course you have nothing worth stealing)

i dont think anyone of us has a problem with CA "protecting their games" but unfortunately the only ones affected seem to be ppl like us who actually do pay for it.

Well if you live in the UK you may as well install Securom now, as all your personal data has already been given away to criminals by the government!

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Originally Posted by Copperknickers

It dosnt really matter to me if CA and SEGA want to protect their games, even with all these other conspiracy theories about spyware and the like.

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Sorry CK but I just want to correct you on the above point which seems to imply that the spyware functionality of SecuRom is somehow unproven.

In fact, there is no doubt that Securom has the potential to gather marketing information on behalf of its owner. If you visit www.securom.com and read through the optional features being sold to securom customers you will see that the ability to gather marketing data on the usage of the PC it has installed itself on is a key value added option which is being used to sell the product by Sony.

The actual wording of the sales pitch is as follows:

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n-CD Solutions

The n-CD concept is the next step towards 1 : 1 marketing. It connects existing, offline digital media directly with specific websites on the internet. By pairing a "Secure Web Link" together with an unique identification number (PID™), only "original CDs" are granted access to specific websites and to specific premium content designed for your disc customers. This unique concept makes your optical media more interesting by creating additional value for your customers.

Your Benefits

For the first time ever the n-CD concept makes it possible to add value to conventional optical media. Only this technology developed by Sony DADC guarantees the user the advantage of accessing specific content which is directly linked to a specific original CD or DVD. Postscribed-ID (PID) allows identification of a specific disc by checking the disc's unique identification number. Organizations using the new n-CD can now implement new marketing tools:

• Link a CD directly to a specific webpage and to specific premium content - secure and unique!
• Collection of bonus points (e.g. per CD)
• Lottery games (e.g. 10 out of 100 CDs win a prize "online" or get privileged web access)
• Automatic online registration (e.g. for software publishers)
• Collect valuable customer data for 1 : 1 marketing activities

Product Features

The overall n-CD offering from Sony DADC includes

• CD production / replication
• Unique identification number (PID)
• Secure weblink (CD - Internet)
• Online authentication process
• Online marketing promotion concept (bonus points, voucher concept, lottery games)
• User statistics & CRM data
• Customer specific portal site (optional)
• Online shop (optional)

For more information visit http://www.n-cd.com

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As you can see the n-CD option uses SecuRom to gather marketing information on behalf of its owner, but not only that it has the potential to do a lot more. for example it could detect everytime you insert a specific CD into you CD Drive and automatically link you to the owners website to inform your of their latest special offers, it could in theory monitor everytime you use the CD and charge you on a per play basis. It can allocate bonus points per play and then inform you of rewards you have earned through consistent customer loyalty. It could be used to promote new products by linking the user directly to a promotional website when they next insert the game CD into their PC, and offer them the chance to pre-order or buy.

These features are not based on a conspiracy theory they are based upon the product specification as explained to prospective SecuRom customers.

For those with enough interest its also worth following the crumb trial provided by the www.n-cd.com link as this leads eventually to this site http://www.sonydadc.com/anzeige_ncd/ which gives you some actual examples of online marketing campaigns undertaken using this technology. Note: that in most of these examples the functionality has been secreted on a dedicated CD distributed by a company specifically for marketing purposes but essentially the technology is the same as is the trigger mechanism.

Good find, Didz. This also goes a good ways to explaining why companies are going with this product. I imagine the marketing guys at the publishers are beside themselves with the possiblities of using this stuff. They only thing they need to determine is how much of this the customers will put up with, and how quickly they can get us to accept it.

I have to say tolerance for this sort of stuff is pretty low. For example: I am known to curse everytime I have to wait for that damned news pop-up to finish loading after you have booted msn messenger. So, the throught of having to wade through a series of promotional websites everytime I want to play Totalwar fills me with dread.

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Originally Posted by centurie

I don't believe that there have been any confirmed cases of copy protection software having overtly negative effects on the hardware, or software, of the consumer, and I would appreciate it if someone would provide such an example for me.

I don't believe that such schemes hurt anyone except the pirates

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~sapi

Obviously a Sony shareholder.

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Originally Posted by Didz

Obviously a Sony shareholder.

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Or a games company employee taking control of his Org account via one of those Securom installations he has on one of his five hard drives! :laugh4:

by the way I have Daemon tools installed and I am not a :pirate2: - I find it useful for a number of things involving my legitimately purchased CDs and DVDs

There are already, in this very thread, multiple examples of Sony's copy protection software causing everything from minor to severe problems for user's PCs. Centurie clearly has not read the thread or done even the most basic research on the subject. :wall:

:egypt:

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We may be feeding one troll under different identities... Post reported.
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