Printable View
Blasio replies, Legatus, the only reason the consuls have been appointed is that no one is of rank able to become a consul. However, do not worry, for I am proposing a change in law next session allowing even legatus to run for the job. At that session, I will also step down as dictator and we will elect two new consuls. And as the rules already state, yes they can be impeached.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
Tiberius stand and applauds slowly and deliberately, nodding to both Tribunus Scipio and Legatus Longus.
"Dictator Blasio, it is good of you to renounce these powers in due course. We understand that when the Res Publica was young we had not enough experienced men to govern her; but with each passing year those numbers are growing. I support Legatus Regulus' statements and your acquiesence."
"Thank you, and new plans have been drawn up already has to how things will be run here in Rome which will be unveiled in 263 at the Congressional Council."
Servivs joins Tiberivs in applause for Blasio.
"Dictator, I respect your decision to return some of these powers to the Senate. It is an action truly worthy of an honorable Roman such as yourself. My respect for you has grown tremendously, and i am eager to serve with you further in the Roman republic."
"Thank you Legatus Longvs, I too believe in the Republic."
"On another note, while I support securing the north, there has been a bit of talk about taking the Gallic city of Mediolanium. For my remaining time as dictator, I do not wish to allow an attack on their lands. The barbarians, as they are nothing more, have still been civilized enough to honor the truce we have with them.
However, I do ask that support here be rallied for an attack on Sicilia. Call me a hypocrite if you will, but they have blatantly harrassed Messana with their forces and their truce should not be upheld any longer as it disgraces us, and we now know they have been spying on our business in Rhegion."
"Blasio, I must agree with you. Recently, the Carthaginians have essentially violated our alliance with their most recent military presence in our territory. Perhaps a preemptive strike would not be such a bad idea, as Blasio suggests. I am in favor of an attack on Sicilia now, and i am against more fighting in the north. It is too costly at this point in time, and as Blasio says, they have not violated the truce, so let's not violate it instead. Turning our attention to the south would be best right now, as of Carthage's most recent maneuvers."
Cotta stands.
Gentlemen, although I personally am in favour of completing subjication of the entire north, I suppose I will bow down to what seems to be a majorityive (?) feeling among the senators. We have taken Patavium, and have secured an alliance with Massilia; that is enough for now. However, the enemy is still numerous enough to worry me. I suggest we post a legion in the north for protection against these Celts, lest they see that these newly conquered territories are no longer stoutly defended, and decide to have a quick shot at them.
As for Carthage, I think it's a big leap to just declare war on them with no warning. I suggest sending a diplomat to the Carthaginians on Sicily, demanding that they remove their troops from Messana territory, on pain of cancelling our alliance. Should they not comply, I regret it may be necessary to show them our threats are real.
(OOC: Send a diplomat to Lilybaeam (sp), leave him there for a turn or so as if he was in talks with them, and then if the Carthaginian force has not retreated, then cancel our alliance with them using the diplomat. The turn after that, (so once the alliance canelling has taken effect) we can begin to invade Sicily-though I suggest attacking the Carthaginian force first, before thinking about taking cities.
Avlvs rised
We should not just go to war with Carthage without diplomatic negotiations, I agree with Dux Cotta. A good part of our wealth is brought by Carthaginian trading ships. A war on Sicily would be long and brutal. And we'd need to build up a naval fleet that can match theirs, or they would pillage our coasts.
(OOC: I agree with Bean, and furthermore I'd suggest, when the first Punic war is brought upon us, we RP it also by creating ships. I suggest again: IF we intend to attack Carthage in Afrika in remote future, our ships need to win at least 3 naval battles against the Carthaginians.)
(OOC I agree with barber's roleplay suggestoin)
A message is brought into the Curia, and is read out loud for the senate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Message
Cicero begins writing a message as a reply to Regulus' letter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cicero's reply
"What of the Italic rebels in Kalabria? Send forth Legio III Campania to deal with them as we are the furthest south at this time."
Senators, it is time to decide where to send our armies next.
Yes it is.
(OOC: Before these orders are carried out, I will use the rebels to kill off one of the RGBS whose gotten too old.)
"Legio III, march in force against the rebels, it will be easy hunting to raise the moral of your men who may be getting tired of waiting. Forgive me, but at the moment we have not had a place to send them. The next congressional sessions is only four seasons from now, I think we can wait till new objectives are brought up. For now we can continue to discuss this Carthage issue."
(OOC: I agree with the diplomat idea for attacking Carthage)
Cotta stands, and clears his throat, ready for a lengthy speech.
I agree that Legio III should be used to quell these rebels. My sources tell me they are a band of Samnites that have chosen to bring their well known disagreements with Roma into the military arena. However, there is no doubt in my mind that any Roman force need worry about a few petty mountain boys that don't know when they have been beaten. Though, of course, if the Legate of the Legio III thinks he needs an entire legion to put them in their place, so be it.
Let us move on to future matters of state, gentlemen. The Senate, as always, seems to be split down the middle, the phrase used in it's most lose form anyhow. We still harbour grievances against Pyhross in Epirus, and of course we can all see some benefits from sending good men to their deaths in a foreign land for a simple purpose of revenge. Who couldn't? But there is also the delegation against the maritime empire of Carthage, of which many of the Senate argue that we should declare national war upon for disregarding our treaty made some years ago. This is, of course, where the loose use of the phrase 'Down the middle' derives. It is well known that some Senators who voted for a war with Carthage last congressional session also wanted a war with Epirus. Aside from feelings of inactivity, power lust, or a true patriotic but rather short-sighted view that Roma can afford multiple foreign wars against several existing or potential allies, I can see no good reason why these certain figures expressed their views this way. We must choose one path to follow, regardless of whether it may be the 'right' one; we must strive to better ourselves for the good of the Republic, so that we may strengthen our truest power-belief in Roma and the Republic for which it stands.
And so, this brings us to a renewal of the debate of who to go to war with. I think we can all agree on at least one issue. This is a simple choice; Epirus, or Carthage.
For the moment, I stand as first speaker, thus I will conduct myself in the manner of said position and for now give both sides of each argument, so that every Senator can decide for himself who Roma makes war with next.
First of all, however, let me sum up our militaristic and economic standing. We have at this present moment in time, three active legions in service. Legio I Apulia is stationed in Massilia, and may be required to stay for perhaps the rest of this year, possibly longer. Legio II Latium is stationed in Patavium, and will be ready to deploy anywhere within the Republic within a matter of weeks. Legio III Capua is marching south to dispatch a few farmers of their lives and freedom in Kalabria. It is therefore plain to see our military strength is, for the moment at least, spread out across the Republic.
Our economy is the richest it has been in history, with gold literally flowing into our coffers daily. We do have enough to create a fourth legion should the Senate see fit. However, that is a separate discussion. What is slightly worrying, though, is the amount of wealth Roma gains through trade with Carthage and her territories. It would have a noticeable effect on our economy should we break trade agreements with them and declare war.
This, of course, brings me on to the discussion between Carthage and Epirus. Carthage is a great maritime power, and it is more than foolhardy to disrespect the absolute ability it gives them to supply, transport and raid against us; a luxury we cannot enjoy at this time, gentlemen.
We may be able to enjoy victory on land, should an invasion of Sicily be voted for. However we cannot hope to protect our coastal settlements, or even our legions' backs, to an enemy fleet movement. Our people would suffer beyond measure, completely at the enemy's mercy; as helpless as we are to help them.
But then again, Carthage has completely disregarded our agreement with them. We all know of their movements around Messana, their diplomatic agreements with our one time mutual enemies in Greece, and the complete monopoly in trade they enjoy with our port cities; the tycoon merchants taking full advantage of our lack in even the most basic fleets. We should send a representative to threaten them with war, and not be afraid to carry out our threats should they not heed our warnings.
The alternative is Epirus. For this it is doubtless we may require at the very least to requisition a fleet of merchant ships to be able to deploy our forces across the sea. This would also majorly affect our income, due to the loss in profits the merchants, followed by the state, would receive, and the subsequent insurance we would have to pay to the merchants for the loss of their profits. I also believe that by deploying into Greece at such an early stage in our Republic’s history may bring us into a much wider theatre of war that we cannot yet hope to handle. War with Epirus, supposing we are victorious, will doubtlessly lead us to war with Makedonia and the free Greek city states. We will also most likely attract attention from the semi-civilised barbarians to the north, the Thracians, Dacians and Getai, who may sweep into Greece, decivilising and exhausting its remaining resources, or they may threaten to invade Italia itself, which our armies fight on in a foreign land.
Of course there are good points. Should we be victorious, we will greatly improve Roma’s standing in the world; militarily, economically and politically. It will provide new riches, fighting ground and glory for Roma’s soldiers and plebs alike, and will improve the life of every citizen under our influence. However, I feel invasion of Epirus may be a step too far at this stage. I would prefer to denote their influence in Greece by invading and attacking their supporters and allies in Illyria. We would hit two birds with one stone this way. Attacking Epirus indirectly by removing them of soldiers and funds, along with their influence and strength in Greece, leading to a far less likely future invasion of Italia, and also we would be able to root out bases of the Illyrian pirates that plague our eastern coast.
All in all gentlemen, we must be realistic. Although we have recently reached a boom in our economy, we must face the fact that Roma can no longer hope to exist as a land power only. We must expand our forces and knowledge of battle as well as our territory and influence. Although we may not hope to compete immediately with giants at sea such as Carthage, we can learn, and learn fast, from our mistakes, and will one day be all the better for it.
I thank you for your patience, gentlemen. Let you all now cast out your own opinions.
Cotta sits, drinking a little wine to wet his throat, and waits for the first Senator to reply.
"Dux Cotta, you speak with such wisdom, you are a man to be admired and trusted. The Legio III has made it clear that we would rather not fight in the north. We do not agree with the benefits, but if we are required to we would fight there with the boldest determination. However, eliminating these rebels would be good for my Legio. We have been sitting in Capua for far to long, my thirst for battle.
As for our next target, I think Carthage. As you said, they have completely disregarded our agreement with Messana. This should not be tolerated. But, as you said, their navy is incredible and surely a war with Carthage would be expensive. At this point in time, my vote lays with Carthage."
"Thank you to both Dux Cotta and Legatus Longvs as well, you support puts you very much in my graces. I too am tired of this blatant disrespect the Punics have shown us by imposing forces, no matter the number, so near to our border.
Come next congressional session, I will lay down many of my powers to the senate and take on a different title, rather then dictator that is. We must all come to agreement on this issue, as I have said before, whether it is now or later Rome and Carthage cannot share this world!"
It is clear that a fourth legion is needed, I propose the Consul of Legions begin recruiting at once.
I support an attack into Illyria. Our old enemy Pyrrhus even now is expanding towards our borders in the northeast, his forces have siezed Dalminion and even now my sources inform me the Epeiros raiding parties have made it as far as Segestica, but a month's journey from our border. Illyrian pirates raid our eastern coastline with impunity. It is time we dealt with this situation before it gets out of hand. Epeiros must be driven back from Italia and the Illyrian pirate bases must be neutralized. Not only would we secure our eastern border, but we will gain control of the vast Illyrian mines making this expedition self-funding.
I therefore propose the following:
1) Legions II and III be dispatched to Illyria.
2) Segestica, Dalminion, and Epidamnos be captured and Romanized.
3) A Legion be permanently stationed in Illyria to guard our eastern border.
I completely agree that the Carthaginians' actions are troublesome, but it would be even more troublesome to be heavily engaged in Sicily and have a Epeiros army sweep down into Italia again. The Illyrian mines will give us the income to build a navy to deal with any future Carthaginian aggression.
March east!
"As I have said before, I agree with action against both Carthage and Epeiros. As I am soon going to restore power to the senate, I will side with what the majority believes is best, and give my own opinion as well. If taking Epeiros to gain money means holding off to attack the Carthaginians then so be it. But for now let us discuss, no action can be taken until the next session."
"Senatores, I've little time to remain in Roma to discuss these matters, as I must attend to the final preparations of the Legio III Campania to restore order to Kalabria. Dux Cotta, you have stated our situation in the world most accurately, and your appraisals of the enemies of the Res Publica are succinct. Nevertheless, I feel quite strongly that your statements in regards to the Third Legion bode ill for the Res Publica and reveal, yet again, your true intentions and your disdain for those who command Legio III - as I have argued before these fine Romans here in the Senate.
"First and foremost, I shall lead whence the Senate commands the men of the Third Legion, be it Carthago or the forces of Anax Pyrrhus. Secondly, I feel that you insinuate that Legatus Longus is either ill-prepared for his duties or lacks the confidence required to lead men into battle with your statement,"Furthermore, you continue to assault the honor of the men of the Third Legion and our senate-appointed mission by stating,Quote:
Originally Posted by _Bean_
Is silencing insurrection and rebellion beneath you, Dux? Why would you infer that our fine soldiers are murderers on the loose unless you either wished to diminish the importance of their Commanders for your own glory, or you secretly wish the traitors success, that they might overthrow the Senate and install you as their new king? You know first hand the fate that befell the traitors of Rhegium. Do not hesitate to think for one second that the Senate lacks the will or the power to issue that end yet again to these or any future insurrectionists."Quote:
Originally Posted by _Bean_
Tiberius begins to pace as he speaks, his hands gesturing to the members of the Curia, turning to look them in the eye, and occasionally walking over to those close to the floor to place a hand on their shoulder and speak as a confidant, winning their trust.
"This is not the first time I have brought forth evidence from your own mouth that you wish to be our King, Dux Cotta. Nor shall it be the last. I submit for the appraisal of the Senate yet another exerpt of the speech you just gave as further proof."For now Dux Cotta? For now? Just what do you mean by that? The last man to install himself as our ruler was dealt with accordingly. Our noble Dictator is on the verge of surrendering his powers back to the Senate that the will of the people of the Res Publica might be better served, and here you have the audacity to all but claim the title Rex....or shall I dare say it, Imperator!?!?!?"Quote:
Originally Posted by _Bean_
Tiberius is visibly angered, his breath coming fast and furious. The malaise towards the would-be usurper of the Res Publica is palpable, and other senatores begin to talk loudly amongst themselves of the potential evil that stand before them. Remembering the sanctity of the hallowed halls in which he stands, Tiberius takes a glass of water and downs it. He recomposes himself, takes a long, deep breath and continues.
"Dux Cotta, you have proven your worth to the Res Publica through your campaigning. You have attained the rank of that which your predecessor, may the gods nestle him in their bosoms, had attained. I implore you to rethink your actions and scheming. The Res Publica can not withstand turmoil from within, should you dare presume to make yourself a king over us. Indeed, the Res Publica will not stand for it. It must not, as we are free men, in a free society. Your sage advice regarding our enemies is duly noted and indeed much appreciated; yet heed my advice to save you from yourself. We will have no king."
Visibly cooled, yet still upset, Tiberius Claudius Marcellus takes his seat. The surrounding Senatores lean in toward him and begin speaking in hushed tones, some glancing at the Dux, others placing a compassionate hand on Tiberius' shoulder with a brief rub. Tiberius' eyes never once leave those of Dux Cotta.
"Tribunus Marcellvs, I respect what you are saying, but not as a friend, but as a member of this senate I can vouch for Dux Cotta as a good man of Roma. He in no way wishes to be king. Even he is in support of me returning more power to the Res Publica, so lets not take words out of context.
Legio III Campania, nor its leader, is any way looked down upon. I, as do all of us, know it will serve us well in battle. I extend the luck of the Gods toward Legatus Longvs in battle against all our enemies. So let us keep the peace we have returned to now in this Curia young tribune. For if we become enemies to ourselves, what chance do we have at all?"
Cotta, who had drifted off to sleep after the usual dribble that was coming out of Marcellus' mouth, woke with a start.
...sngh..uh..ah! Sorry, I was having this awful dream that someone was...ah...never mind.
Yes, Marcellus, we all know you have an obsession with me; the constant spying on me in my most private chambers in an attempt to hear reckless inner thoughts spoken out loud about how I wish to murder all the Senate and install myself as evil emperor of the world. It's all the same. I grow bored of your tiresome questioning and misinterpretation of my speeches.
For now , quite simply, means, For now I will give both sides of the argument, and not express too much of my own opinion, of which I will relate later. You must work pretty hard to find these lines that can in any possible way be related to me wanting to become king. This is just blatent jealousy; I, a Man of the People, having higher social and military status than you deeply offends you. Well, all I can say is that I am truly sorry, but for the Gods' sake's, grow up. I think everyone is just getting a little bit annoyed with your constant whining and spoilt ways.
Oh, and I am well aware that there are many lines in this speech that you could use to portray me as a rude, unjustifiable Senator that can't handle the powers that he has. But to be honest, go ahead. Everyone expects it.
Avlvs spoke
Dux cotta's sight is clear and he speaks the truth. Illyria would be the best target, I said this before and say it again. It's easier to capture than Greece or even Carthage, but still would give us many advantages. Wealth, Soldiers and our enemies are cut off their allies. Also, if we'd intend to invade greece itself, we'd be able to attack from 2 sides.
As for Marcellus' speech, it does not bear witness to great wisdom. Do you really see a king in everyone, are you that paranoid? Don't look at my hair, maybe it has the shape of a crown. He rolled his eyes. How can you speak of kings, now that our dictator announced to lay down some of his powers. We're a Republic. And a Repubic is what we stay.
A timid young man enters the Curia. He is dressed simply and from his hurried whispering to an older man it is clear that he is nervous and frightened. The older man nudges him and he finally turns to speak.
I am, err, Spvrivs Clavdivs Flamen, of the noble Clavdia. I am sure many of my cousins are here in this room and I bid thee greetings. I have been recently admitted to the Curia as a senator and I have decided today that my appeareance be neccesary. My family retainer will be present at all times, so I hope it bothers no one.
Cotta, smiling at Marcellus' silence, turns to the new comer.
Ah, another Claudii. Take a seat, quickly. We are discussing important matters.
Yes, I will. I trust that a scribe will be appointed to update me.
Who gave Cotta the title of "First Speaker" ? My arse he's objective, he would use his influence to sway the senate one decision or another just as soon as the rest of us. Military victories, however great, which they were great, does not give a person wisdom.
I also do not see the need to change the consuls. I can see no errors with the consuls we have right now, and I plan to re-elect them when they time comes if they decide to.
Perhaps senators, if we decide to bend to plebians wishes, and have our revenge on Phyrros. We can send one legion north of their territory, and one south. As a giant pincer we shall destroy them. (OOC and I dont want another incident like Asina happening)
Welcome Cladius, make yourself at home.
Thankyou for the welcome Scipio. I however do not believe that a pincer move on the Epirotes would work as you say. They have inland provinces as I'm sure you are all aware and war in after the mountain passes would be slow and hard going, not to mention long supply lines. The legion would be cut off without support and would likely be surrounded, not to mention the fact that many more borders with foreign powers would be opened.