Printable View
1C and 2C...although I'd avoid going too far away from the Bight in the search of those ships. I'd actually settle for a limited search of them, while at the same time pulling back a bit. 1D might be lucrative, but I have a feeling that it is heading north towards the British mainforces. So we better stay away from it.
1)C
2)C
We need to destroy more of the British fleet for the losses we have sustained. By catching those two Battleships alone and far from help we can make up for our losses and turn ths from a tactical victory which will likely be Pyrrhic to something that aproaches a strategic victory.
The minesweepers were German. Remember it was your light cruisers that asked for help with he survivors and the sweepers answered that call.
I think we've just won a Phyrric victory as well. We had three operations planned: the Hartlepool raid with the Emperor's forces, the Dover raid with Betruger and the attack on the British fleet at the minefields with our main force. The first is a dismal failure, the second was cancelled when we realized we overstretched ourselves and the third is a success, albeit not as big as it could have been. We have lost one lesser and one stronger battleship; the British lost three lesser and one stronger battleship; losses in light forces are about equal: not bad in itself, but the British got twice as many ships as we do. In addition, most of our fleet is damaged while the British still got an unharmed fleet at Scapa Flow. Also, the Emperor is not going to be pleased at all with the failure of his little plan. Victory? Yes, but another such one and we are undone.
Bearing this in mind, I am all for going home, but I'd like to have a go at those two battleships that sunk Prinzregent Luitpold if they are not to far away. We are too close to Scapa Flow for comfort and searching for the missing ship (I assume this is Barham's consort) will lead us that way also. So I guess my votes are:
1C But don't pursue them too far
2C: Much as I would like to know what is going on nearer to Scapa Flow, neither the zeps' AA guns nor their speed will be sufficient to protect them from the Furious' planes
Also, I think we should be more carefull about sending out light forces during important operations: if things go wrong it is hard to send out support because everyone is focused on the main objective (and I realize I am 100% guilty here :embarassed: ).
Hmmmmm, only 15 Torpedoboats and 7 Light Cruisers left. I have a feeling that we can't afford to disperse or waste any more of our light forces. We also better make sure that we keep them close to our capital ships to ensure the safety of both.
I think our only possible strategy now is to do raids down the channel with our undamaged ships, but due to low numbers of our light forces we should stick to rather small raids.
Anyways lets see if we can catch those two battleships before heading to harbor to think things forward.
I am severly tempted to say I told you so. The night action has been disastorious. We have managed to sink 1 more battleship while loosing 1 of ours and having severe damage to at least 1 more. If we had broken off and just attacked with the Betruger and a few torpedo boats, we would have damaged 3 battleships at the cost of a couple of torpedo boats - a far better balance sheet than the current one. If we had supported the landing force it could have landed, done a bit of damage but created a political storm. With luck the battlecruisers might have caught the Furious as well. We have missed a great opportunity here.:no:
:coffeenews:
Sad news, in deed. We should learn the lesson and concentrate our forces.
1) The battleforces
C: Break off the chase and begin to search for the two heavies that mangled your rear.
:skull: revenge:skull:
2) The zeppeliners
C: Send them off to find the rogue British ships. Perhaps it will also keep them clear of any intervention from Furious.
I agree with the majority: 1c and 2c.It makes me really sad to see how well Betruger managed to decieve the British. We really should have used it on the original confrontration in the Bligh.I think that the results could have been devastating.
In my dispondancy, I forgot to put up my options. I think I would go for 1C and 2C. The 2 english ships I assume are damaged from the battle and we may be able to overwhelm them. It might just make the tally sheet look a little better.
Yes, but would the Betruger have fooled them as much if they hadn't been pursued and under mental pressure? Although a night battle was against tactical principles I don't think this one was a huge disaster. It wasn't good, but not a huge disaster either. In the worst case raid and landing would have lost us all of the escorting light cruisers but in return dealt no damage at all to the British... So I think the biggest mistake in the last two chapters probably was our decision to not trap the British more aggressively against the minefield in the first engagement. And one more thing we must learn from the last four chapters - no more night battles!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
I don't think our decision to pursue was that bad: no doubt we dealt a lot of damage to the British as well and we managed to take out a QE-class. What really went wrong in my opinion was the loss of Prinzregent Luitpold and the Emperor's force.Quote:
Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
Kraxis, I do take it that option 1C means that the slow and heavily damaged ships will be send home? I don't fancy chasing QE battleships with a slow force; especially as we might bump into British reinforcements.
Actually the biggest mistake with hindsight was the fact that we decided to send out the landing force. Without them being out the battle on the Bight might had been decisive and it would had allowed us to keep more torpedoboats out on the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
But to be honest I wouldn't call this night action disastrous. We did well and even managed to sink Barham, which means they're down to 4 QE-class battleships. Also the surviving 7 battleships will propably be found on a drydock. While the damage our fleet has taken will stop it from sallying forth in strength in the next few months, it won't stop us from doing limited raids with our undamaged battlecruisers and battleships. We have actually decent amount of fully battleworthy ships left. :2thumbsup:
So I'd say things are not that bad really. Actually it just dawned to me that Oldenburg wasn't a light cruiser, but a dreadnaught....that makes the ratio a lot worse...
I also vote 1C and 2C. Those two British heavies might be QEs and we may still have a chance to sink them.
I also think that while we suffered more than I'd have liked, we still have hope. Many of our ships are damaged, but for the most part the damage isn't that serious and should be repaired soon. The Prinzregent Leopold is the hardest loss to swallow. If only we hadn't sent out the landing force so soon, but waited till the battle for the Bight was over. That decision just keeps coming back to bite us.
1c 2c
I don't think the battle went to badly but it could have gone better of course. This is war and there are going to be casualties.
Much as I would love to continue the main chase, I think the best risk - reward balance is 1C. They are damaged from the earlier combat, and we heavily outnumber them. This gives us the chance to go from 4 sunk from 11 engaged to 6 from 13 engaged. If we continue the current chase we may find ourselves facing reinforcements before we have chance to react, and these two battleships will still be in our rear.
For the zeppelins, maybe keep one to help hunt down these two battleships, but otherwise they need to be got out of the way. And as we haven't found Furious, we need to warn the Zeppelin base to be on alert for possible air attack after dawn.
And whichever direction we go for, we should pass on the last known location and course of all the enemy forces to the U-boats, in case they can make a lucky strike as they did last time.
I think we should lobby to the Kaiser the importance of placing the U boats under our command. They could be important in our attempt to cut the channel link.
That I support. And 1C so that we could crush the two supposedly damaged British battleships before they could join the main forces and add to the weight of the British forces. Hunting the main fleet is over; the reinforcements would soon arrive in droves for the British.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius Clemens
If nightfall brings no result from the hunt, however, turn home. Or if engaged by the Scapa Flow force, then turn home, too.
Moaning and crying over the losses do us no good; what really went wrong was us spreading our forces. More united we could've dealt stronger damage. It is not so much "I told you so" as much as "we should just do one thing at a time."
Also, the Light Forces will be recovering if the ships we've ordered some time ago join us--or, is it just my misunderstanding and all the newer ships are already in our forces?
2C. Without this choice the hunt for the two British battleships would be much harder and slower. We cannot afford that.
Also, prepare the Zeppelins base for a possible air raid.
Some actions would be nice:
1) Tell the subs that some damaged RN ships are on their way home. (I doubt that we can get control over the subs.)
2) Let's make a new passage through the mine field. We might need it. And I guess right now the sweepers can work without interceptions.
3) Get the airbases allert. Can we get any cover from our airforce?
P.S.: Do not worry too much about the Furious. This is WW1!!
I think we should get those Zeps with the AA guns on flying patrol over the base from dawn. We should start thinking about these - Kraxis, could the guns engage surface targets? - might help even up the light forces miss-match.
I think those 77mm guns would barely scratch their light forces..
I am not so sure, in WW2 heavy guns were mounted in planes and were effective against shipping. The Mosquito had a 57mm fitted and the B25 had a 75mm fitted - both had success against shipping. I am only thinking about attacking destroyers - in WW1 these were small fragile ships and any armour would be on the sides, not horizontally, so the plunging fire from the air could be very effective. The only question mark would be if the 77mm guns had suitable ammo - or did they only have someform of airburst AA round.Quote:
Originally Posted by AggonyDuck
If we expect an air raid, our Zeps should leave the bases, maybe.
I am actually wondering how the two battleships could get into our rear. Haven't our zeppelins fanned out over the North Sea? For some reason I presumed that they would automatically cover our base (and thus give ample warning of any aireal attack originating from Furious).
Re-reading the account of Kraxis's last installment, I think the 2 heavies were part of the force of 11 we originally engaged. During the night, the English changed direction and probably they split off 2 ships to help cover this move. our weaker ships are at the end of the line, so an attack on where our rear might be made sense - they were lucky to bump into the landing force.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludens
One thing comes to mind was that these forces were at the hole in the minefield - I wonder if the english challenge is to get inside and actually attack our base - they have shown some signs of this in the past. The tactic seems a bit hairbrained - why throw away 2 of your best ships on a one way mission? - but our oppolents have not shown a great deal of tactical sense in the past. The previous night action seemed to be getting the 2 super light cruisers through our defences to possibly attack our base.
Has anybody else got any thoughts on this idea?:2thumbsup:
I suspect that the main British objective is to either:
A) Cripple our fleet so that it's not a threat for the rest of the war, or
B) Keep us bottled up inside our home base.
Perhaps they believe that a direct strike on our shipyards will help them accomplish A. In this they may be right; I really haven't thought of the implications of a possible attack on the base itself. Still, I wouldn't want this consideration to put us on the defensive - I maintain that we must be aggressive in order to have a chance of success.
Our stance has been defensive in that we are outnumbered - perhaps they think that by attacking us we will sortie out to retaliate or that by destroying our port facilities they will remove our naval forces as a threat. It is obvious that we must be aggressive to put the English on the back foot (sorry - cricketing metaphore!) - so let us plan a strike at a Channel port or the Hartlepool raid so we gain the initative. I assume that the English will put some forces to sea to come to the aid of the fleet we attacked - our recon indicated about half the fleet in Scarpa as steaming up ready to go to sea.. Once they withdraw, we should strike soon. If they put another force in the Bight, we should strike at that - we must have control of the Bight to take the offensive.
Ideally, the whole fleet should sortie under cover of darkness and strike at a Channel Port really hard - I think we could get to Calais, level it and get back in port before the English can get down from Scarpa.:2thumbsup:
Yes, I agree with that. I'm wondering - weren't a few of our landing forces infantry possibly captured in the night battle? Then the enemy would expect us to hit Hartlepool next. If that's the case, a raid on some other target, like Calais, with our full fleet, would be very good IMO :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kurt
I agree. The captives of the Hartlepool raid will tell the British of the Emperor's plan, which may induce them to scatter their fleet further. This may help us, especially if we hit Calais instead of Britain. Despite this, I fear that the Emperor may withdraw his troops once he learns what a botch we made of our first attempt. Perhaps it would help to send him a suitably edited version of events first thing when we reach port.Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kurt
Still, I think we should read too much in the British night attack. IIRC the former crew of the Betruger indicated it was just a raid on our minesweepers; carried out with a poor selection of ships.
Kraxis, does option 1C include sending our damaged and slowed ships home? I don't see much point in chasing QE class battleships with slow ships; and I certainly don't want to be caught in the open by British reinforcements with a slow fleet!
The damaged ships (as in slowed or less than ready for battle) will form their own little force and sneak home. They should be strong enough to defeat any small force of British heavies, but if any larger selection of heavies find them, it can get nasty (since your more fresh units will be running around looking for the two sneaky ones).
Your remaining units will split up into groups strong enough to defeat any two damaged British battleships. In terms of speed you will never have a chance of actually catching a QE if it is fresh and ready. They can sail 24 knots while most of yours can't reach 22. But there is indication the two ships were damaged in the battle with Prinzregent Luitpold.