Hopefully I'm wrong. Isn't the first and won't be the last. Its just my best guess based on our current situation combined with factoring in all the expanding some people want to do.
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*edit*
Also, what exactly is a "senor"?
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Hopefully I'm wrong. Isn't the first and won't be the last. Its just my best guess based on our current situation combined with factoring in all the expanding some people want to do.
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*edit*
Also, what exactly is a "senor"?
I believe it is spanish for sir, only it's missing some accents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
yeah, it needs a ~ on the n but i didnt feel like doing that. i like to say senor every now and then for mister. big deal lol
I think you should look at the other side of things. You are offering your opinions on the game's mechanics and state that's been agreed by the other players through consensus, and when others go through the trouble of explaining why the game is at its present stage, you say that is being defensive? From what I read, I find that you are the one being defensive about your opinions. It is like only you can defend you opinions and anyone else countering them is defensive.
What OK is saying about bring stuff out into the IC is that those stuff you are bring out here, like indefensible borders and not enough revenue are IC stuff that can be used to develope the IC storyline and your avatar's character even more.
About the Teutonic Crusade, that is another IC/OOC decision to weaken the human players. It was suggested by Stig and undertaken by his avatar, he has no problem leading his avatar deep into Russian territories without possibility of reinforcement or retreat, the rest of the players agreed to let him do it. Strategically, this is probably similar to a blitz, striking the enemies rear to disorient him and force him to be on the defensive, Karkov operation of WW2 ring a bell? Or the fail attempt at the Battle of the Bulge.
Just my 2cts, I am not a player, just a participant in the OOC thread.
I never meant that everyone was being defensive. But, I have percieved some of the replies to be defensive and dismissive. As for me bringing up things other have agreed to, how am I to know they agreed to it? I tried to read up as much as possible but there is a limit because alot happens over the PM system. If they do not want new players asking basic questions about things that aren't posted, then they should not accept new players. As for myself being defensive, I have tried not to be. It started with me offering opinions. I perceived some of those opinions to be dismissed out of hand by some on here so I reiterated in order to be clear. Then I tried to rebut point for point where I disagreed with others. I started getting impatient because I felt that I was having to bring up the same points over and over. Its almost as if some people only read the last post you have posted and not the ones before. There are many on here who have disagreed with me but have been quite nice and polite about it. Others have come off combative, defensive, and dismissive.Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneCold
Again these things were never meant to be brought up IC. They were meant to be evidence to support my point. And I have felt that in some cases, telling me to bring things up IC was a way of dismissing what I was saying. Are we even allowed to talk about the game OOC? Do we always have to be IC?Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneCold
Again I have no problem with the Teutonic Crusade. I was simply using it to support my claim that poor strategic moves were being implemented on purpose. Storywise, I think its a great idea. On a pure strategic level, it has the makings to be a real cluster!@#$%.Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneCold
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Move along gentlemen, there's nothing to see here...move along now.:book:
"These are not the droids your looking for"Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
"Ahh, these are not the droids we are looking for. Move along now."Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
"You can go about your business"Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
So Privateerkev,
I'm going to call you PK from now on if that's ok.
You've certainly generated some discussion since jumping on board, so welcome and well done for getting the boy's to engage you in debate. :balloon2:
I'd certainly get your points into the IC section rather than hammer them out here.
Roleplaying your point would be an excellent move. Saying you don't want too because of character reasons simply means it would be a greater challenge to do so.
You certainly pass the Star Wars quote test PK good job fella :balloon2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Thank you! :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
"credits will be fine..."
I need some help from anyone out there.
I'm not able to see the saves so a map would be really helpful.
I would like to do a story on Arnold and I realised I don't even know where he is.
Is it possible for someone to take a few screenies and post then up?
As Duke I'm not even able to "sound" like I know what's going on, and there's only some much roleplaying I can to do cover that up until I start looking like a moron :beam:
Sorry I can't help with the screenshots because I am at work. I just realized that I never answered your other post so let me take the oppurtunity to do so.
PK is certainly fine with me. I've already started referring to many of you by abreviations. Well, thanks for the kudos. I love healthy serious debate and I don't have class this summer so its been lacking in my life. All because it would be a challenge to argue these points IC doesn't neccessarily mean that I should make my character do it. Here are my reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
1.) I do not see how Jan would even know about most of this stuff.
2.) Even if he did know it, I am not sure that he would even care. For now Jan is quite content to be wandering around the Holy Land doing what he thinks is God's work.
3.) I try not to "metagame". In case anyone doesn't know, metagaming is taking OCC knowledge and applying it IC. If you PM'd me OCC and said you were thinking about trying to impeach the chancellor, it would be wrong of me to IC PM the chancellor and warn him. While a certain amount of metagaming is inevitable, I try to keep mine to a minimum.
4.) I'm still new at this and am trying to feel my way around before I get into the rough and tumble world of the Diet. While I feel quite confident debating OCC on here, I want to get the lay of the land before I debate IC.
5.) IC I need to keep in mind what my father, duke, King, and Kaiser want. It would be politically unwise to start a massive debate IC before I knew where others stood on these issues IC. This goes even more for me since I am new and should develop my character and prove myself before throwing rocks at the hornet nest.
6.) I was only trying to hammer them out here so I could get a better grasp of the game mechanics OCC. Noone told me that we were throwing the game on purpose so I had to find out the hard way. Now that I know, I can better participate. I see no reason at the moment to have Jan hammer these same points out in the Diet.
*edited grammer*
Yeah so? It's just a game, sides it will stop the Russians and it will be great fun to see if Ansehelm survives.Quote:
On a pure strategic level, it has the makings to be a real cluster!@#$%.
I know its just a game. I never said not to do it. I am not sure how many times I have to say that. I think it will make a fine story and I wish you luck. Whether it will stop the Russians is doubtful in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
Why won't it stop the Russians? The goal is to destroy every Russian it meets. There's only one rout into Russia, so it will destroy every army (or die doing so). And the Russians barracks are located all the way back in Bulgar, so it will meet every army heading for Thorn.
I am not confident that you can make it all the way there and back with the forces you will have. And even if you could, I am not sure if the Reich could spare those forces without making itself weaker elsewhere. Like I said, good luck and I look forward to reading the battle report/storyline thread. No matter what, it should be exciting. :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
I can think of a few blokes who asked the exact same question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
http://www.solarnavigator.net/histor...s_portrait.jpghttp://www.evilscale.com/evilscale/images/hitler.jpg
:laugh4:Quote:
I can think of a few blokes who asked the exact same question.
But they had the winter against them, I won't
@PK, the army will be reinforced by mercenaries, against an AI that will easely do as it doesn't use the tactic a player will use.
TinCow: And those two didn't invade Russia until they had all/most of Continental Europe conquered. :laugh4: The Eastern Front is by far more interesting to study in WW2 history than anything the US did in my opinion.
Well I've seen the AI use mercs too so I'd hesitate before relying on that. Plus they drain the piggybank extra fast so I try to use em sparingly. Unless they are really really cool like Panzerfaunts! :beam:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
Stig's going on a suicide mission for the Reich PK :balloon2:
He's going to have a great time doing it and go down in a blaze of glory in the end more than likely.
Good luck to him I say and more importantly most of the players here are going to remember it and talk about it long after he's gone.
Just like Ituralde's-Leopold, Econ's-Henry, GH's-Heinrich, Igno's-Sigimund, Kag's-Dietrich, TC's-Mandorf and OK's-Otto.
And I remember them because they roleplayed their characters and did great things. If there's a game where you can live by doing great things and not by playing by the "Numbers", then this is it.
As I mentioned before and this is for everyone;
If you have great idea's and grand roleplaying plans then do them, the game provides the framework for it and that's the whole point for me.
Just make sure your plans don't involve ending the game as soon as possible or the the framework is suddenly gone :yes:
Yeah I figured it was a suicide mission. It will be sad to see the character go but if thats what the player wants to do then he should just have as much fun as possible doing it. I too agree that this game provides the framework to do awesome things. And I also don't want the game to end by playing it more by the numbers. I think what happend was I kept stating things that were very obvious to everyone else but very new to me. Lots of confusion all around. Seems to be straightening itself out now though. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
Well yeah, maybe the AI uses them, but the AI doesn't use proper tactics. I will let the AI attack me, let him come to me, use tactics against them.Quote:
Well I've seen the AI use mercs too so I'd hesitate before relying on that. Plus they drain the piggybank extra fast so I try to use em sparingly. Unless they are really really cool like Panzerfaunts!
With a bit of luck Ansehelm will make it to Moscow, if not I will always have the option of retreating him unless he gets past Novgorod.
Believe me I won't let the AI beat me that easely
Well thats certainly true. The AI cant fight its way out of a wet paperbag. And I never thought Ansehelm would die easy. It just seems like he's a cool character and would be a shame to lose him so soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
Heh, I've played one proper SP campaign myself (I get bored quickly, hence why I play MP, there you don't have the bad diplomacy). In it I had a crusade army which arrived to late, and me being excommunicated directly after it (I forgot to unblockade a port, bastardy pope) had to send it back 12 turns through hostile land. And it came back, yes I admit, only the general did survive, but he came back. ~D
Well, well, seems like much has been going on here. I finally worked my way through all of your posts and I must say we seem to be getting quite bored to start an argument about some OOC issues, that really aren't there to begin with.
I understand privateerkev and that his initial observation regarding our current strategic status. We are in a precarious situation, and would I have played, or probably anyone else here, the entire game, it would indeed look quie different. But as econ21 mentioned this is the goal of a PBM, to come in contact with different play styles and see the result.
Where I believe you are wrong though privateerkev is your assumption that in fact one person, or an elite group of person, has actually planned the current development via backroom deals. What you see now, is the result of several random factors and people's personal interests.
Of course there have always been backroom deals but so far they have all ben rather obvious and all the measurements that have led to our current situation have been reached to open plan discussion in this OOC thread. The only greater sheme I am aware of at the moment would be TinCows secre society, or rather Lothar von Steffens involvement with it. It's a rather new thing, I think, and I have decided not to delve to deeply in it, lest it ruin some surprises later on.
So, my take on the subject seems that you are taking some of the things a tad too seriously, and I hope I could clarify some things through my post, instead of just igniting an old debate.
If I have not added anything new to the discussion, I apologize and if there has been some grand OOC conspiracy going on from the beginning, well then shame on me for not noticing it.
And while all this discussion may be entertaining, I believe this Chancellorship is lasting quite long. I know Warluster, that you are currently a little busy in Real Life, but still a little speeding up would be much appreciated.
Cheers!
Ituralde
Heh, my bet is on it that that's the one that stopped Ansehelm from going to Russia ~DQuote:
The only greater sheme I am aware of at the moment would be TinCows secre society, or rather Lothar von Steffens involvement with it.
It does make it more interesting tho, and frustrating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuperman
Warluster, any chance of posting a new save - i.e. playing out 1246 and pressing end turn? Stig posted his save about 35 hours ago - we are aiming for some progress within every 2 days as a minimum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ituralde
No problem. What you've said is jiving with alot of what I have been hearing all day. And that is: A general consensus to make the game harder so it goes on longer and is more fun, a democratic structure that makes it difficult and unwieldy for a cohesive strategy, some people's attempts to add spice or whatever to the game by using their power to upset the apple cart, and everyone assumes that everyone else already knew all of this. The only problem was that I did not know it and operated under the assumption that not everyone else knew it too. Everyone else thought I knew it so I can see how my posts would seem extraneous and off topic. I can only imagine what it was like to see my later posts as it seemed like I was beating points home over and over again. But I was only doing that because I thought some people were not actually reading all of what I was posting. I am coming to the conclusion that the game result we have now is a hybrid of all of the factors discussed. Since I have never disagreed with the actual game result or the mechanics we have chosen, I was taken aback at some people's reactions. I simply was trying to understand what was happening. You guys don't exactly have a "new players" handbook hanging around. There's alot of threads and posts but not everything is in those. There is exactly one reference I could find in the rules to making the game harder and that had to do with giving other factions money. If I was taking anything too seriously it was because it gets frustrating to keep hearing people say your wrong only to eventually hear people grudgingly admit that your kinda right. So, hopefully we have all gotten a slightly deeper understanding of how things work around here. I know I've learned alot. So, if I haven't alienated all of you with my long opinionated encyclopedic posts, then game on! :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ituralde