U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

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Did you know McCain personally clubbed baby seals to death? He did, from the start of his career!

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Damn I must have missed that , I thought with him being representing Arizona he wouldn't have had to pander to the fishermen so much for their votes , but it just shows that he does think of his appeal to distant communities as part of his bigger campaign .

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Originally Posted by CountArach

There is NO WAY IN HELL that Obama is out here on the Far Left.

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We know you're not from America CA, where everything is shifted to the right.

I think Obama doesn't even know himself what he stands for.

What he wants, is the presidency. He is driven by sheer ambition, not political conviction. I think he really is a sort of BushIII in this respect. Like W, his planning stretches to January 21st, not beyond.
Once he makes it to the White House, he'll walk around the premises a bit, look at the old paintings, feel up the China, marvel at the discomfort of those antiques, and, once bored with all that, look out the window with a stupid look on his face and think: 'uh, what to do next...'

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Originally Posted by discovery1

We know you're not from America CA, where everything is shifted to the right.

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Its happened down here too. All I am saying is if Socialist = Far Left, then Obama is not Far Left. Edwards was out to Obama's Left and there are plenty of others out here, like Bernie Sanders and Barbara Boxer.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

I think Obama doesn't even know himself what he stands for.

What he wants, is the presidency. He is driven by sheer ambition, not political conviction. I think he really is a sort of BushIII in this respect. Like W, his planning stretches to January 21st, not beyond.
Once he makes it to the White House, he'll walk around the premises a bit, look at the old paintings, feel up the China, marvel at the discomfort of those antiques, and, once bored with all that, look out the window with a stupid look on his face and think: 'uh, what to do next...'

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Ah, I must disagree with you here Louis. Bush is an incompetent man-child surrounded by ambitious people. Obama on the other hand is an ambitious and clever man surrounded by equally ambitious and clever people. Obama most certainly knows what he wants to do and he will pursue his goals swiftly and without mercy. :evil: However, no one besides him knows exactly what his uber plans are.

My guess.... Anti Christ or nothing baby!!!.



Joking aside, Obama is much less appealing to me now then he was a few months ago. However, I still think both him and McCain would be competent leaders so I'm still happy about our choices for prez.

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

I think Obama doesn't even know himself what he stands for.

What he wants, is the presidency. He is driven by sheer ambition, not political conviction. I think he really is a sort of BushIII in this respect. Like W, his planning stretches to January 21st, not beyond.
Once he makes it to the White House, he'll walk around the premises a bit, look at the old paintings, feel up the China, marvel at the discomfort of those antiques, and, once bored with all that, look out the window with a stupid look on his face and think: 'uh, what to do next...'

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Anyone catch the link I posted a while back that compared Obama's campaign to Bush's?

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Anyone catch the link I posted a while back that compared Obama's campaign to Bush's?

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And McCain, and Kerry, and Clinton, and Dole, and H Bush, and...:sweatdrop:

Damn, U.S. politics blows...:shame:

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Damn, U.S. politics blows...

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Look on the bright side , it could be worse .

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Look on the bright side , it could be worse .

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A pessimist and an optimist are drowning...
The pessimist says "This situation couldn't get any worse."
The optimist says "Oh yes it could!"

This is the most amusing take I've yet read about Johnny Mac's campaign swing through Colombia:

The most reassuring theory I can come up with is that McCain intends to bring back a couple of sixty pound suitcases that the Secret Service will hustle for him through Customs. And soon Obama's big lead in campaign finance will have vanished. And there won't be anymore questions about McCain being too old to have the energy for the job as he starts campaigning 96 hours straight.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

The most reassuring theory I can come up with is that McCain intends to bring back a couple of sixty pound suitcases that the Secret Service will hustle for him through Customs. And soon Obama's big lead in campaign finance will have vanished. And there won't be anymore questions about McCain being too old to have the energy for the job as he starts campaigning 96 hours straight.

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https://img78.imageshack.us/img78/61...lsmileyec4.gif

As usual, the media as a whole and many of us "handicappers" as well are trying to slam these candidates into neat little one-sentence descriptions. A brief pause suggests that such evaluations aren't accurate for either man. They both bring to the party/embody many themes and experiences -- some of those contradictory to one another. Most of us have to resolve such belief/value disparitities for ourselves on an ongoing basis. Is it less likely that McCain and Obama are doing the same?


Most profound single comment thus far (THANKS Don Corleone!):

"Outrage, and not religion, is the real opiate of the masses."


This explains so much of the recent media approach -- all forms -- that it's scary.

A good article on Obama's swerve to the center:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070302451.html

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A Man of Seasonal Principles

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, July 4, 2008; Page A17

You'll notice Barack Obama is now wearing a flag pin. Again. During the primary campaign, he refused to, explaining that he'd worn one after Sept. 11 but then stopped because it "became a substitute for, I think, true patriotism." So why is he back to sporting pseudo-patriotism on his chest? Need you ask? The primaries are over. While seducing the hard-core MoveOn Democrats that delivered him the caucuses -- hence, the Democratic nomination -- Obama not only disdained the pin. He disparaged it. Now that he's running in a general election against John McCain, and in dire need of the gun-and-God-clinging working-class votes he could not win against Hillary Clinton, the pin is back. His country 'tis of thee.

In last week's column, I thought I had thoroughly chronicled Obama's brazen reversals of position and abandonment of principles -- on public financing of campaigns, on NAFTA, on telecom immunity for post-Sept. 11 wiretaps, on unconditional talks with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- as he moved to the center for the general election campaign. I misjudged him. He was just getting started.
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Last week, when the Supreme Court declared unconstitutional the District of Columbia's ban on handguns, Obama immediately declared that he agreed with the decision. This is after his campaign explicitly told the Chicago Tribune last November that he believes the D.C. gun ban is constitutional.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton explains the inexplicable by calling the November -- i.e., the primary season -- statement "inartful." Which suggests a first entry in the Obamaworld dictionary -- "Inartful: clear and straightforward, lacking the artistry that allows subsequent self-refutation and denial."

Obama's seasonally adjusted principles are beginning to pile up: NAFTA, campaign finance reform, warrantless wiretaps, flag pins, gun control. What's left?

Iraq. The reversal is coming, and soon.

Two weeks ago, I predicted that by Election Day Obama will have erased all meaningful differences with McCain on withdrawal from Iraq. I underestimated Obama's cynicism. He will make the move much sooner. He will use his upcoming Iraq trip to finally acknowledge the remarkable improvements on the ground and to formally abandon his primary season commitment to a fixed 16-month timetable for removal of all combat troops.

The shift has already begun. Yesterday, he said that his "original position" on withdrawal has always been that "we've got to make sure that our troops are safe and that Iraq is stable." And that "when I go to Iraq . . . I'll have more information and will continue to refine my policies."

He hasn't even gone to Iraq and the flip is almost complete. All that's left to say is that the 16-month time frame remains his goal but that he will, of course, take into account the situation on the ground and the recommendation of his generals in deciding whether the withdrawal is to occur later or even sooner.

Done.

And with that, the Obama of the primaries, the Obama with last year's most liberal voting record in the Senate, will have disappeared into the collective memory hole.

Obama's strategy is obvious. The country is in a deep malaise and eager for change. He and his party already have the advantage on economic and domestic issues. Obama, therefore, aims to clear the deck by moving rapidly to the center in those areas where he and his party are weakest, namely national security and the broader cultural issues. With these -- and, most important, his war-losing Iraq policy -- out of the way, the election will be decided on charisma and persona. In this corner: the young sleek cool hip elegant challenger. In the other corner: the old guy. No contest.

After all, that's how he beat Hillary. She originally ran as a centrist, expecting her nomination to be a mere coronation. At the first sign of serious opposition, however, she panicked and veered left. It was a fatal error. It eliminated all significant ideological and policy differences with Obama -- her desperate attempts to magnify their minuscule disagreement on health-care universality became almost comical -- making the contest entirely one of personality. No contest.

As Obama assiduously obliterates all differences with McCain on national security and social issues, he remains rightly confident that Bush fatigue, the lousy economy and his own charisma -- he is easily the most dazzling political personality since John Kennedy -- will carry him to the White House.

Of course, once he gets there he will have to figure out what he really believes. The conventional liberal/populist stuff he campaigned on during the primaries? Or the reversals he is so artfully offering up now?

I have no idea. Do you? Does he?

Shall I point out McCain's flip-flops that take him to the right?

Oh, and Obama didn't flip-flop on Iraq - he said the exact same thing that he has been saying the entire election.

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Originally Posted by CountArach

Shall I point out McCain's flip-flops that take him to the right?

Oh, and Obama didn't flip-flop on Iraq - he said the exact same thing that he has been saying the entire election.

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Here's the problem, CA.

I was listening to NPR the other day, so I don't have a link, and I heard Obama say that he would visit Iraq and maybe revise his plan in accordance with what the generals say.

He then proceeds to say that his plan hasn't changed and we will start a pullout that will last 16 mths.

What if the generals say soldiers are needed for another 3 years? Is he going to ignore them?

I'm not bashing a timetable, although I don't think it's a great idea,but I'm not seeing how it goes together with following our generals' advice.

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Originally Posted by Kush

What if the generals say soldiers are needed for another 3 years? Is he going to ignore them?

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The CIC is supposed to set the overall strategy. The goals and ideals, if you will. The commanders are supposed to advise on tactics, and speak up when the strategy is insane. I don't see how listening to commanders is incompatible with setting an overall strategy.

And this is part of why I always found President Bush's "I'm just doing what my commanders say" duplicitous. Firstly because we know damn well he would replace any general who didn't tell him what he wanted to hear, and secondly because the CIC sets the strategy, not the commanders.

I love the way it's rarely about the content of the flip-flops - the thing that sticks in the mind and is emphasized in the media is that someone flip-flops. But any politician worth his salt does so. I'd be worried if they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S

I love the way it's rarely about the content of the flip-flops - the thing that sticks in the mind and is emphasized in the media is that someone flip-flops. But any politician worth his salt does so. I'd be worried if they didn't.

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I support and always will support the status and issues concerning those known as phalburgii.

Now for some real evidence of what we all already knew.

Obama is the anti-christ

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Originally Posted by CountArach

Now for some real evidence of what we all already knew.

Obama is the anti-christ

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Ahem.

Lemur's Disease: It's Spreading.

So get vaccinated the only way you can.

CR

Oh no! The Lemur's disease - she is catching!

*Starts sucking on needles*

Wow... the innuendo there... just shcoking...

Not news of the weird, not worthy a seprate thread, too funny to let it go to waste, so I'll sneak it in here.

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Bush sorry over Berlusconi insult

The White House has apologised to Italian PM Silvio Berlusconi for a briefing describing him as a political "amateur" who is "hated by many". The "insulting" biography was included in a press kit distributed to reporters travelling with President George W Bush to a meeting of world leaders in Japan. He was "one of the most controversial leaders" of a country "known for governmental corruption and vice".

Mr Berlusconi was a key supporter of the US-led war in Iraq.

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What's incorrect about that press kit anyway? ~:confused:

Gah! In his first term Bush got his foreign intelligence and policies all wrong and he ran around with the attitude of a rabid gorilla, estranging half the globe with it. In his second term he has got his foreign intelligence and policies all correct and now he's all timid and apologetical about it. :wall:

Every dollar raised by this donation drive will go toward a cure to Lemur's Disease, so please, give now and give generously.

Meanwhile, what the **** is going on in Senator McCain's campaign? I haven't seen back-biting and pointless turmoil like this since Senator Clinton's campaign. I hope Johnny Mac can get on top and pull his competing groups together ...

It seems none of the competing advisers working on Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign can actually agree who is in charge.

The New York Times reports "it is becoming clear that his campaign is once again a swirl of competing spheres of influence, clusters of friends, consultants and media advisers who represent a matrix of clashing ambitions and festering feuds... His orbit remains filled with people who have been demoted without being told they are being demoted."

In fact, this morning on Fox News, McCain himself denied that Steve Schmidt now runs his campaign -- despite his recent promotion -- saying "Rick Davis is still the guy in charge." He added that Schmidt has simply "taken on some more responsibilities."

So Mike Murphy is not in charge? Or is he?

McCain offered Murphy the strategist's job. "Before he left for Mexico and Colombia, McCain informed Murphy that when he returned, there would be changes in the campaign, that Davis would be demoted and that Schmidt would assume some operational control of the campaign, and that he wanted Murphy to serve as his chief strategist, as he currently didn't have one," a friend of McCain's told me. "Murphy didn't say no," the McCain friend went on. "Murphy expected that to happen." When I asked why it didn't, the McCain friend replied: "As usual, chaos took over."

A new one for the anti-Obama hysteria files. So Senator Obama comes out with a service-for-tuition scheme, which is unexceptional. Sounds a bit like a watered-down ROTC program, with much less money for much less service.

Here's what Obama said:

For college students, I have proposed an annual American Opportunity Tax Credit of $4,000. To receive this credit, we'll require 100 hours of public service. You invest in America, and America invests in you - that's how we're going to make sure that college is affordable for every single American, while preparing our nation to compete in the 21st century.

Yawn, right? But not for the screaming hysterics on the right. Check out Jonah Goldberg's reaction:

There's a weird irony at work when Sen. Barack Obama, the black presidential candidate who will allegedly scrub the stain of racism from the nation, vows to run afoul of the constitutional amendment that abolished slavery.

For those who don't remember, the 13th Amendment says: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime ... shall exist within the United States."

I guess in Obama's mind it must be a crime to be born or to go to college.

In fairness, Goldberg also attacks Senator McCain in the piece, but it lacks the frothy over-the-top teeth-gnashing, hair-pulling drama of equating Obama with a slavery advocate.

Four thousand dollars for a mere hundred hours light labor? What a bunch of bull.

CR

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Four thousand dollars for a mere hundred hours light labor? What a bunch of bull.

CR

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I'm glad you join me in my indictment of CEO wages :wink:

Seriously though... I do like Obama's plan, though I think that College should be free this is a step in the right direction.

CEOs get paid a heck of a lot more than $40/hr. Plus they have to, you know, think, unlike most volunteer jobs.

And college shouldn't be free. Students should have to work to earn there way through college, to attach a cost to it. Now, scholarships to smart people from poor backgrounds are one thing, and the current high price of college should be brought down by cracking down on costs.

But kids shouldn't be able to spend thousands of dollars of taxpayer's money without investing a good deal of their own effort.

CR

But society ultimately benefits, so why shouldn't society pay for it? Further, why should someone have to pay extra for information?

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Originally Posted by CountArach

But society ultimately benefits, so why shouldn't society pay for it?

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There's no guarantee that the kids going into college will get anything out of it, especially if they know that they're not paying anything. I know as a taxpayer I wouldn't want to shell out even more money so some snotnose brat can essentially live Animal House for real.