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Spvrivs Clavdivs Flamen, welcome to the curia. I see you're a sharp-witted man, we need that here to compensate Tiberius Claudius Marcellus. He laughed. No sorry, Tiberius, a bad joke at your expense.
Take a seat, Spvrivs, and feel free to confide your opinion whenever you feel like it.
Uh...I spoke first in the massive silence...therefore I was the first person to speak. It's not a title. Calm down, Senator. And I have to also say, if one does not learn anything after fighting in wars, when will they ever learn?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooks
I do not remember having a discussion to get rid of the consuls. The consul elections will come within time. It is not a matter to discuss presently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooks
Blasio, after a brief absence, reenters the Curia, he smiles toward the newcomer...
"Tribunus Flamen? I am a great friend of the Clavdia and it is an honor to have you join our good senate. I trust you have been made to feel welcome. Do not let these senators tempt you in any direction Blasio laughs.
Well then, down to business. I have been discussing our issues with military and financial advisers, and taking your opinions into account, and have been persuaded to attack Epeiros indeed. We will keep Carthage at bay for now with our rocky treaty. And at our next congressional session we will discuss a tactical plan of attack.
If I am so honored as to be elected once more for Consul, then I will be requesting a commission of our first Consular legion. (OOC: Ill also be proposing that Imperial Legions be changed to Consular Legions) If that is accepted, we will have another mighty force of strong Romans to invade them with.
So let us discuss Epeiros and how best to go about attacking them, so that our congressional council can be more speedy."
Should we attack Illyria, I think it would be best to install puppet governments for the time being. It will greatly improve the ordinary people's opinions of us in Illyria. They are not overjoyed at the alliance with Epirus, but they are not particulary against them, seeing as they have largely kept out of their country. I think if we came as conquerers, they may rise up against us. Far better to control the government, which in turn controls the people, than to try and control the people and the government ourselves.
Illyria is rich with precious metals, and we can extract a hefty tribute from the puppet rulers in return for independence and protection by Roma. I also believe Illyria will act as a power buffer between the barbarians to the east. If we can control the rivers and mountain passes, we can hold off an invading forces for weeks; enough time for a legion to be dispatched to deal with the problem.
True true. And apart from that Illyrian soldiers would be a good support to our Legions in the future.
Well, even if a diagree with the capture of Illyria for reasobs I wish not to mention I agree that a puppet state there could be of great importance. I'm wondering what this would imply to the other nations of Greek though. The Macedonions are strong and the recently created Greek league a big threats, but even greater trading partners. I am unsure. Anyhow, thankyou once more for a kind welcome Dux.
An old Roman, wisened with age and battles enter the Curia and takes a seat next to Spvrivs. After a whispered conversation Spvrivs stands.
My family retainer has just informed me that a postition of Aedile of Segesta is open. I know not of the private meetings between men but I am wondering if this spot is still open. If so I wish to apply. That is all.
For what reasons do you apply and what have you acheived yet, so that you consider yourself worthy of this rank, only a few days after you've been elected to the Senate of Rome? Not, that I had objections, but I wonder....
What have I achieved? Apart from my acceptance to the Roman senate, top marks in the university whilst being a plebian, quelling revolts and serving time in a regional army, (Trait Ex Tribunis Milita, which I take as serving in a small regional force) I am determined and a great public speaker.
I try not to brag but I cannot deny to myself that I have a certain amount of charisma and this would help the citizens of Segesta get used to Roman rule and hopefully recognize them into the Republic. I am unselfish, all profits made would go straight to either the citizens of Segesta or directly to Rome.
My loyalty is unfaltering, you can be sure of no Ligurian uprising in the near future if I do become Aedile. Spvrivs chuckles lightly. I also believe no one else has applied so I wish to fill the spot. If anyone else wants anymore reasons feel free to ask.
Finally, Mamercvs I do not doubt your intentions at all.
Well roared, lion. You know, since much Roman blood has been shed on that soil I wanted to be sure, that no wrong man would govern those lands. I see, your appointment to this senate occurred with good reason. Let's hear what reasons others have to allege.
Like I stated before I did not doubt your intentions of asking me in public for my reasons and also like I mentioned before, I do like to speak publicly.
I was wondering when the position was going to be filled.
"Indeed well said young tribune. As no one else has offered an application...I hereby appoint Tribune Spvrivs Clavdivs Flamen to the position of Aedile. Governing settlement: Segesta. Serve Roma well friend."
(OOC: Make sure you read in the rules what you are to do, or not do, as an Aedile)
(OOC: yeah, especially the part where you lose the rank, when you leave the province...)
Congratulations young Senator
On his way from Segesta to rejoin his Legio, Servivs stops in quickly after hearing news of the newcomer's promotion. It was only a quick visit as he had to get his legio and remove the rebels from Roman territory.
"Congratulations Tribvnvs Flamen, I am confident that you will serve Roma well. I look forward to your further involvement in the Republic."
Servivs smiles at him and then leaves. Hoofbeats could be heard as Servivs sped off to his Legio.
A man of average height and build steps forward from the front of the galleria. He is dressed perhaps slightly better than your average clerk in the Curia, but nothing particularly stands out other than the Hellenic design along the trim of his toga. He walks toward Aedile Flamen and makes a short bow of his head before delivering a sealed letter. They engage in a brief conversation and the clerk again bows his head quickly, this time with a simle, and returns to his seat in the galleria where he continues to take notes of the proceedings for his master.
I thankyou all for your kind words and especially you Dictator. I will serve over the people of Segesta well and will obviously follow anything the Senate commands of me.
"I here by declare the fourth Congressional Council open! It will remain open for debate and legislation until January 31, 2009 at 20:00 Pacific GMT; at which point there will be 48 hours allotted for voting."
"I would like to announce I will be restoring power to the Res Publica. Here are the following legislations to promote new law and make the passing of my power so..."
Here are my charters...
CA 3.1: 4.6 House’ Legion/Families Legion
Civil war in Rome may be inevitable as senators are all vying for power here. So in order to not waste away the senate’s legions which the Republic needs to defend itself from foreign enemies, each house/family will be given a legion to call its own. Provincial Legions will be used strictly for defense while these personal legions can be used to defeat your political foes. All personal legions must be kept in a house/families provincial reign until they are involved in a civil war. No offensives on foreign enemies will be made unless it is requested, do not ask to have it put into combat.
In order to gain access to a legion such as this, you must gain cities. All Provincial Governings are granted to you by the Princeps Senatus. Once you have been granted one, you can use your house/families settlement to fund you personal legions. It works like so:
Each city grants a house/family an “invisible” amount of denarii’s. 1 city will give the house/family 1000 denarii’s a season. That’s 4000 denarii’s a year. During times of civil war, each city brings in 1500 a season. That’s 6000 a year. The amount of money a house/family has will be kept track of in a new thread called the Forum Trapezai. (The console cheat, add_money, will be used whenever the purchasing of units is done. So as far as the actual Republic goes, we will not gain nor lose any money as exact amounts per unit will be used. Ex: (Unit Costs: 1000, so only 1000 per one of those units will be added then immediately used.)
Each personal legion can be named however the house/family chooses. All units requested for recruitment will be dealt with by navarro951 through an IC pm so that no one has the power to say “no I won’t recruit them”. Navarro951 will not respond to the message, the recruitment will simply be carried out unless other business needs tending to.
Personal legions have a max of ten units. Each house/family may have 1 legion per city they own. The ten units can consist of any ten units they want.
CA 3.2: 1.4 Game Management
At the start of each turn, the Consul of Finance will post a seasonal report on the events of the last turn, including a save game file for the new turn.
After the seasonal report is posted, players will have 24 hours to download the save, and make their personal moves.
Players can move their avatars, move any army (Consular Legion or otherwise) their avatar commands and fight any battles against the AI that they are capable of fighting with their avatar’s army.
The Princeps Senatus may move any avatar or army that has not been moved in this way as he best sees fit, including moves that result in battles, except that he cannot move a player’s avatar, units on a Provincial Governor’s territory or units under player's control in any manner that player has expressly prohibited.
The Consul of Finance may extend the time limit beyond 24 hours at his discretion, but all players are encouraged to act as swiftly as possible to keep the game moving.
Players may not move avatars or armies into the territory of a neutral or allied faction without the permission of the Senate.Nor may they attack the settlements or armies of neutral or allied factions without a declaration of war from the Senate or an Edict.
CA 3.3: 2.2 Gaining and Losing Provinces
All conquered settlements belong to the Senate of Rome.
A Provincial Governorship can be given to any player by the Princeps Senatus during a Congressional Session as he see fit.
Princeps Senatus’ can take away a Provincial Governorship from the Player only if 2/3 of the 'Senate' agrees with it.
Since the Princeps Senatus is the “primus inter pares” he decides, for the game will be more fluent. The senate has the right to vote about this matter, if a majority of senators wish it.
CA 3.4:
Promagistrate (To Replace Heres)
Requirements: Must be in-game Faction heir. Must be elected by the Senate of Rome.
Influence: 2 + 1 Stat Influence
Powers:
(1) Owns one Consular Legion. If he becomes Provincial Governor he can not have Provincial Legion.
(2) Can propose unlimited edict/amendments per 'Congressional' Session.
CA 3.5:
Princeps Senatus (To Replace Dictator)
The Princeps Senatus is the “primus inter pares”. That indicates that the person so described is technically equal, but looked upon as an authority of special importance by his peers.
Requirements: Must be the in-game Faction Leader. Must have been elected by the Senate of Rome to be the Promagistrate before.
Influence: 3 + 2 Stat Influence
Powers:
(1) Can propose an unlimited number of Edicts or Amendments per 'Congressional' Session and their Edicts and Amendments do not need to be seconded.
(2) Can call Emergency Congressional Session.
(3) Owns one Consular Legion
(4) Twice per full 12 turn Consul term, can prioritize one building in any settlement.
(5) Once per full 12 turn Consul Term, can force a transfer of one retinue member/item from any Player to themselves or any other Senator.
(6) Can veto one Edict or Amendment per Congressional Session
(7) Can ban Senators from a Congressional Session. Banned Senators cannot speak or propose legislation, but they are permitted to vote.
(8) Can give the title 'Provincial Governor' to any Player he wishes during the Congressional Session. Once done that he can take it only if 2/3 of the Senate agrees with it.
(9) Once during his reign, the Princeps Senatus can automatically assume the post of Consul. The Princeps Senatus must declare he is exercising that right at a Congressional session; he will then be appointed Emperor of Rome with no election. This right can only be invoked once.
CA 3.6:
3.6 War
All declarations of war must be authorized by an Edict by the senate during a Congressional Session.
CA 3.7:
3.9 Democratic Republic
Note: For realism purposes the senate rules the people of Rome, however because he is backed by his consular legion and praetorians, the Princeps Senatus may override all powers of all players and claim himself Emperor if he so wishes. Civil war, however, is a possibility.
CA 3.8:
4.2 Standard Legions
Standard Legions will consist of a minimum of 5 infantry cohorts, 2 ranged and 1 cavalry cohorts.
For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ Bodyguard units do not count as cavalry cohorts.
The Princeps Senatus will decide who commands it, but it is upon the Senate to decide where it is to move (if at all), and whom to attack.
Standard Legions can be created only during a Congressional Session by the Princeps Senatus or by the Senate using an Edict for that.
All Standard Legions are marked with a number corresponding to how many Legions stand in Rome and where the Legion was created: 'I Legion of Roma, II Legion of Kyrene , III Legion of Bonnonia etc.'
Standard Legions can be disbanded only during the Congressional Session, by the Princeps Senatus, or by the Senate through an Edict.
CA 3.9:
4.4 Dux Campaign
If so ordered by the Senate, a Dux can lead a Campaign consisting of at least 2 legions or more. A chain of command will be used in commencing this campaign. It all plays out like so:
(1) Senate declares war on Averni and requests Dux Gaius Julius to lead the I Legion under Legatus Flavius Julius and the II Legion under Legatus Marcus Julius in an invasion into their territories.
(2) Both Flavius and Marcus are now under complete control of Dux Gaius if he agrees to lead the campaign. The Dux will be aloud to form his own strategy for both his legion as well as the two player’s legions now placed under his command.
(3) He will then report to the Consul of the Legions and the Senate which settlements he wish’s to conquer. (2 settlement min. and 5 settlement max.)
(4) The Dux will have this command until he has completed his goals or determined he can no longer continue the campaign. Should he utterly fail in his campaign, he will be stripped of the title of Dux and be demoted to Legatus.
(5) If at anytime the Senate and Consul of the Legions feels the campaign is no longer needed or is destined to fail it will be called off with no harm to the Dux.
In all to be in command of such a campaign as a Dux is one of the highest of military honors in Rome and if you fail you will be punished accordingly, but should you succeed, you may see yourself as consul or dictator yourself one day.
CA 3.10:
4.5 Forming a House/Family
Once you have gained the rank of Quaestor and have been granted a Provincial Governorship, you will want to befriend a standing Praetor and create a family/or house. A house must consist of at least three members including the Quaestor. To form a house, you must be given a Praetors “sponsorship”, announce the name of the house and which region it hails from, and what it stands for. Have your sponsoring Praetor announce the fact that he is sponsoring your House/Family in the senate and then you can get creative. Explain what your House/Family will stand for politically, militarily, and economically.
A house will create huge advantages for the players in it. You will all be able to vote more powerfully during Congressional Sessions and also will be to place your members in better seats of power through your influence. Each house will have its own thread to discuss its own agenda.
(Confirmation with the dictator removed from rule 4.5)
ALL CHANGES IN BOLD!
CA 3.11: That the following Rank be Made
Tribune of the Plebs
Speaks for the Plebs and lower ranks of the legions.
Requirements: Must be elected to position.
Influence: 1+1
Powers:
(1) Can propose one edict/charter amendment per congressional council; plus one more edict per actively serving tribune.
(2) Can veto one edict/charter amendment per congressional council.
(3)The Tribune of the Plebs term is two Consul Terms long. (6 years)
Penalties:
(1) May not lead an army of any sort as he is still a tribune.
(2) Cannot Run for Consul
For the Tribune of Plebs, Tribunes may also run in this council here and now.
CA 3.12: That it be changed so Legates can run for Consul. For the purpose of this, legates may be able to run for Consul this turn.
CA 3.13: That Provincial Dictators now be Provincial Governors.
Edict 3.1:That the commissioning of Consular Legio IV Roma be proclaimed under my own leadership if the senate will have me.
Edict 3.2: That an invasion be mounted to take the major economic points of the Epirote kingdom.
"Lastly, if I may have the honor, I will be running for another turn as Consul of Finance. And I nominate Consul Cicero for another term as Consul of the Legions. I feel we have done our jobs to the best of ability and will continue to better Roma."
A messenger comes into the Curia, he carries a letter bearing the seal of the Legio III.
"A letter from Legatvs Longvs, commander of the Legio III." He proclaimed. The messenger broke the seal and looked down on the letter. Raising it slightly so he could better project his voice, he read:
"Good senators of Roma. As you know, the Legio III has been sent to remove some rebels from our lands in the south. It has been many days and finally, we have cornered the rebel farmers at the coast. Several times they have fled from us, their complete lack of honor is despicable. The Legio III has worked long and hard for this moment to kill these rats, and yet, the Republic beckons us back for the Congressional Council. With your permission, senators, I would like to keep the Legio III here so we can squash the rebels. It would be such a waste to have come this far and have to turn back, my men need blood on their swords. Give us a few more days, senators, these rebels have no where else to go.
Legatvs Servivs Sempronivs Longvs, Commander of the Legio III Capua."
The messenger stands awaiting the reply of the senators, Longvs was getting frustrated with the rebel cowards for running like little children.
Avlvs rised
Very well! Long live the republic, the senate and people of Rome!
I second CA 3.1, CA 3.2, CA 3.3, CA 3.4, CA 3.5, CA 3.6, CA 3.7, CA 3.8, CA 3.9, CA 3.10, CA 3.11, CA 3.12 and CA 3.13 - which are all CA, but for reasons of officialism I just wanted to make it clear.
Concerning the Edicts:
It's a good proposal, but at the wrong time. I think we should take Illyria first, to realise your edict more efficiently, provided a Legatvs proposes it.Quote:
Edict 3.2: That an invasion be mounted to take the major economic points of the Epirote kingdom.
Concerning Legio III:
I agree, those rebels are to be exterminated, and since it won't take long it would be just unreasonable not to chase them down.
Avlvs sat himself.
I also second the complete list of CA's and Edict 3.1.
I would like to proclaim the edict, or rather expand on Edict 3.2, that we conduct a Dux Campaign in llyria. I propose that we should take the cities of Segestica, Dalminion and Epidamnos and their surrounding kingdoms. Once completed, we should build a wall of forts to protect the crossings over the rivers to the east, to prevent surprise incursions by the Dacians, Thracians and Getai tribes there. We should also protect the mountain passes into Epirus and Makedonia, to prevent a strong counter attack while we solidify our hold on the conquered regions. Personally, I would like to take Legio II Latium into central Illyria, to attack the kingdom of Dalminion. Legio I Apulia would move to take Segestica; the two legions would hopefully reach their targets at the same time. Legio III Capua would cross the straits between Italia and Epirus, and besiege the city of Epidamnos. Legio IV Roma will, once completed be able to protect the Republic's borders.
Therefore, I proclaim Edict 3.3-Conduct a Dux Campaign in Illyria, targetting the kingdoms of Segestica, Dalminion and Epidamnos, using the Legio's I, II and III.
That's what I'm talking about, thank you, Dux Cotta. I second your Edict 3.3
*Scipio returns after being summoned back after having marched all the way to eradicate the bandits on the via appia. The bandits are still there. He proceeds to read the newest charters, obviosly wanting to discuss them as much as possible, and not blindly agree to them*
While the CA may or may not be up for debate. I wish to add my input or questions or maybe some suggestions of improvement to them. If you are inclined, feel free to ignore them.
CA 3.1: 4.6 House’ Legion/Families Legion
While I agree with the overall content of this. I do not think that just because you are in a house you have to serve in that particular legion/region of the houses sphere of influence. Thats not my main point though, how does a house initially gain a region? Say 4 legions gain control of Spain and a house wants to call it their own, how do they proceed to do that and what if another starting house wants it also?
CA 3.2: 1.4 Game Management
I agree on this one. Im only commenting on it because I think it'a good that you need a following in the senate to say....do what Caesar did or something to that degree.
CA 3.4:
The only use for a heir I see is that you own one legion and can make unlimited edicts. Is this merely a legislative advantage? Would a character have to return to Rome to be a heres?
CA 3.5
I think the dictator should only be there when there is intense political strife/or someone declares themselves a dictator by being overly powerful through influence in the senate or army. I do however see the good navarro does this early on. With the consul of finance and army though I dont see much of a point in having one pretty soon though.
CA 3.8:
4.2 Standard Legions
If a commander is ordered to say, attack the mainland of Carthrage. How much control will the senate have over its actions? Will it be guided step by step by the senate? That seems stupid to me.
CA 3.11
Werent the tribunes of the plebs the wild card of ancient roman politics? I think it would be cool if you gave them more power over legislation and the like, but penalties on future careers. Just a thought
*Scipio is finally done with his comments on the charters. No doubt boring the majority of the senators, but he feels its necessary to establish whats what in case of future snags. He goes on to say what he thinks of the edicts*
I agree with edict 1.1. Though what are the limitations to the movement of the 4th legion. If its under the dictators personnel command, how far is it allowed to go? Only inside Italia? Is it going to be in a fort near Capua? How is a dictator going to serve his primary purpose if hes on a campaign?
Edict 1.2 is going to be passed whether I agree on it or not.
I agree with edict 3.3 as proposed by Cotta. Though I ask for legio III be on the eastern spear of the attack, as it has yet to prove itself in battle and is eager to do so against the Epirotes.
Cotta frowns.
I misunderstand, Scipio. Legio III will be in the most southern attack; on Epidamnos, near to the Epirites homeland. It is a most dangerous area of attack, and if the legion feels it is in too much danger it may wish to swap with another legion. However, the attack on Epidamnos, and the subsequent job of that legion to protect the mountain passes will be a difficult, and thus most noteworthy of honour and celebration should they succeed.
I have devised a necessary plan of action and strategy in Illyria; I only await complete confirmation by the Senate of this edict before I share my plans with the legion commanders.
Cicero returns to the Curia after a rather long absence up north with Legio I Apulia.
he enters without attracting much attention and has a short chat with his clerk over what has happened in the Curia for the past few days.
he then rises.
thank you Princeps Blasio for nominating me as the Consul of the Legions again, I shall do my job well if elected to consul and I bid others who also wish to be consul luck.
and I second Dux Cotta's Edict 3.3 (together with the whole list of CA's but I think it has already been seconded enough times), we need the legions to cooperate well if we are to take Illyria quick. However I would like to inquire on the number of legions to be on campaign, which ones would be? And if a naval invasion is required, I think we now have enough funds to send a few transports or so to ship our troops across the Adriatic; however I would think that such an invasion on two fronts would surely leave the Epirotes confused and unable to defend themselves.
Also, I had intelligence reports that those Epirote cities are weakly garrisoned (OOC: by double-clicking the city, I know it's sort of exploiting the FOW), though I have no information on the field armies there; but I can believe most of their troops are stationed in faraway Thrace.
and Sentaor Decimus, I believe that the Princeps Senatus may bestow upon Quaestors or Praetors a province to govern, and those men may eventually request a province or so be brought under their governorship, and a few of those men may wish to band together to form a house. so it is not a house that uses legions under its control to conquer new lands, but it is those lands that have been conquered that may be brought under the house's command.
I spoke of the outline of my strategy a moment earlier, Cicero. The basic information is here; the legions involved and their destination. Their battle plans, the routes of movements and the deadlines of their movements will come when I release my overall strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by _Bean_
ah thank you, my apologies, my assistant seems to have missed out that part while taking the minutes.
(OOC: actually it's because I read too fast and kept scrolling around the page)
and I would say it seems to be a sound strategy; I believe all our commanders have the competence to ensure all goes as planned if this edict is passed
Pvblivs walks into the Curia, dressed in a toga and looking confident in his strides, yet uncomfortable in his clothes. He walks over to a scribe, shares a few whispers and then stands up to speak, turning first towards Blasio.
"So you're finally doing it, huh? Good... if only a little late. However, I have some points to make regarding some of your Amendments.
First off is CA 3.3. Why should the "Primus Inter Pares" decide himself? Why should the senate have to pass a vote first if they wish to vote on it? Are you trying to engineer a long and complicated process in order to keep your dictatorship but in different clothes? There is no need to be swift when granting provinces to senators, so there's no reason why the senate shouldn't have all the say in it.
Then CA 3.4." Pvblivs snorts. "Why should he own a Consular legion? Shouldn't they, as their name implies, belong to the Consuls?
CA 3.5 suffer the same critique as CA 3.4, and more. If he should truly be equal, as you say he should, then why should he be allowed to make unlimited edicts and amendments when everyone else can not? Why should his edicts and amendments not need to be seconded, when everyone elses need two? Why should he be allowed to mingle in infastructure as he pleases, with no need for the senate to agree? I can go on with this, but it is obvious that you are not willing to let go of being dictator. You wish not the name, but you still act like one.
CA 3.7 just proves my point. You wish to remain dictator while not suffering from the drastic PR that title gives you. Not only should you keep a consular army even if you're not a consular, you wish to legaly be able to use that to install yourself as a dictator the second your front as a "republican" falls. Anyone who opposes your will is to be an outlaw. How ingenious of you.
If there still are people wondering whether he really considers himself an equal, look at how he separates himself from the senate in CA 3.8. "The princeps senatus or the senate can..." Hmpf.
If you have any intention of appearing legit, you will adjust your propositions accordingly.
Now I wish to propose an Edict as well:
Edict 3.4: One unit of Hastati from Legio I Apvlia should be replaced with a unit of Triarii, and one Accensi from the same army should be replaced with Leves.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Lastly I wish to announce that I will be running for the position as Consul of Finance."
Hmm, some good debate. I agree to a lot of the Edicts so far but I will incline to comment untill a later date. Finally I wish to impose that:
Edict 3.5: The Roman Leadership line of traits be removed from the game and then released.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read: