The Will of the Senate - Senate Deliberations III

Rome is slightly discontented at the moment because of high taxes coupled with having no military garrison or governor, it is not because of a 'discontentment with architecture'.

To rob Roman coffers of 17,500 denarii that could be used to build improved governmental buildings in any one of our several cities that need it, namely Ancona, Arretium, Ariminum, Paestum, Bononia, Ancyra, Sardis and Athens, wouldn't really be beneficial to the situation of the Republic.

The situation in Rome can be fixed with the garrison Velites we are training there now and a small temple, already under construction. The situation in these other cities will require much more expensive buildings to maintain the order, or squalor will soon take hold and ruin the prospects of maintaining a significant level of happiness there.

However, I too have realised the need to have a visible, permament display of Roman advancement throughout the empire, that all our neighbors may see we are truly the greatest people in the world, capable of structures unheard of in their lands.

I had planned the following.
1 - Large stone walls, the likes of which have yet to be seen in the world, to begin being constructed around the three greatest cities of the Republic, Rome, Carthago, and Pergamen. Not only will they be the most defensible walls in the known world, but their sheer size will place a sense of awe and wonder in their populace, ensuring them that they are safe, and increasing public order through their symbolic display of Roman strength.

2 - Extension of our Legionary training abilities beyond the Italian Peninsula. By the last season of my consulship, the cities of Massillia, Patavium, Apollonia and Pella will be well enough Romanized to merit the construction of a Provincial Barracks in each of them. This will greatly increase our ability to supply the legions with soldiers of true, Roman citizenry much closer to the far ends of the Republic than having to ship the legions from far across the seas.

3 - The construction of at least 5 arenas throughout the Republic, in places where public order most requires their usage.

4 - The construction of a Great Forum in Rome, and academies in Pergamen and Carthago.

While the idea of a Hippodrome and Amphitheatre in the city of Rome are quaint ideas for the people of the city itself, they hardly help to be of any use to the vast majority of the Republic's population.

I would advise against this motion, and instead, allow me to carry out my original plans for construction.

Let us concern ourselves for a moment with the north. You may recall that the Consul abandoned Viberi to allow a threatening Iberian army to pass. This was merely the latest of a long list of Iberian provocations, which, like most others before it, was handled poorly, by appeasing the Iberians. This stops now.

Motion 12.04: This house instructs the Consul to re-occupy Viberi with no delay, and to never again abandon it.

Motion 12.05: This house instructs the Consul to prevent the incursion of any Iberian army into Roman territory by any means at his disposal.

Senator Coruncanius if you really desire war with Iberia so much, then why don't you simply motion for it?

That's what your motions will bring to the Republic.

No, that is what your appeasement will bring. Every incident only emboldens the Iberians. When they finally eliminate the Germans, which they will do if we keep aiding them, then they'll have no reservations about attacking what they perceive as a weak Rome.

Well then let me put this clearly to you senator, I have authorised enough battles in the east under your goading and prodding and that filthy Greeks' (ups's) treacherous misconveyances of the true Seleucid strengths to last a lifetime. I will not go to war with Iberia because you're afraid some barbarian far off to the west thinks "his daddy can kick your daddy's behind".

If you want war with Iberia, then go fight alongside the Germans.
This is my decision. I will not be manipulated by your taunts.

{Cornelius Saturninus}

Motions 12.04 and 12.05 must not pass Senators. At first, I was confused and thoroughly against the Consul's act of abandoning Viberi, but upon further consideration and explanation, I see that it is a sound plan in at least delaying war with Iberia until we're ready. The town itself is too far away from any of our others to be practical to defend, and it extends our borders awkwardly to the North.

As for the second motion proposed by Senator Coruncanius, it is absolutely ridiculous! Why not propose straighforwardly for war indeed! The situation around our Republic must be stabilized, borders secured, no more expasion, and our legions must be resupplied and reoutfitted. Then and only then can we look to war with Iberia, and this I believe is necessary. I don't assume there is any argument from anyone in this senate that a conflict with them is avoidable.

I should also like to be moved out of this Asian atmosphere soon Consul. I've given enough speeches to subdue unruly masses for a lifetime. Once again I must reiterate that my abilities are being wasted rotting away in towns and cities. I still carry the Legio I banner, I should have a legion to call my own.

Senator Saturninus, as soon as I can, with Pergamon becoming more and more keen to Roman rule almost daily, my brother Marcellus will soon be able to relieve you at Smyrna.

*Marcellus Aemilius walks in, and pauses at the body of UPS Maximus. He gives it a kick, and then relieves Fed-Exus, who looks glad to get out of the building.*

Senators, I cannot second any motion so far beyond 12.02. Our finances are needed elsewhere, and we should not provoke war with Iberia. Instead, I propose this alternative:

Motion 12.06: The next time there is an Iberian incursion into Roman territory lasting more than one season, the Consul is instructed to send Augustus Verginius into Iberian territory for a counter-incursion. However, no military action is to be initiated by Romans unless the Iberians attack. Senator Verginius' force is to be recalled immediately after the Iberians return to their territory. This motion is rendered null if Senator Verginius dies.

It is a bit wordy, I know. But it is a better alternative than Senator Coruncanius calling for war.

I would not be objectional to this.

I second motion 12.06

{Cornelius Saturninus}

I must confess I do not understand the purpose of the proposed Motion 12.06. I'll withhold judgement on it until better explained as to why we would send troops on long marches into enemy territory while enemy forces are in ours, where in case of attack, our men would have to be recalled and march back to take care of the intruders. What good would our presence in Iberian lands do, other than to provoke unecessary hostilities?

I am in favour of Quintus Libo's proposed Consitutional Amendment 12.A. However, I cannot quite second it until there is a little more clarification of the purpose of the position.

The First Consul has very significant duties and responsibility to the Republic, and each of us Senators is needed to give voice for the various areas in which our expertise lies. However, at present the position of Tribune seems simply to be a negative and short-lived position which will act only to slow down our ability to pass legislation for the good of Rome.

I propose that there be an addition to Senator Libo's amendment 12.A, to the effect that the Tribune be given equal voice to the First Consul in the expansion of the Republic. Specifically, that there be a separation of powers between the military and the economic, so that the Tribute rather than the Consul will have the power to determine and initiate all building projects throughout the Republic. In this way there will be a balance between the primarily military considerations of the First Consul, and the primarily cultural and economic considerations of the Senate.

I further propose that this power of the Tribute begin at the start of the next consulship, so as to not disrupt the current Consul's well-thought out plans.

For the good of Rome I must say this is a foolish conjecture!

Regardless that you propose such an ammendment not start until after I have left office, seperating the choice of military and economy is nothing but a problem in the making. Who is to decide what is more important in critical times, temples or men to quell rebellion? Who is to decide where troops building facilities are most needed, in the west or in the east? What amount of monetary division is to be agreed upon for construction and for recruitment? There are far, far too many points for conflicting ideas between a consul and tribune for this to benefit the republic.

If two men must run the Republic, then let them run it as a co-consulship, as my grandfather and his co-consuls have set forth as an example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lucjan

Well then let me put this clearly to you senator, I have authorised enough battles in the east under your goading and prodding and that filthy Greeks' (ups's) treacherous misconveyances of the true Seleucid strengths to last a lifetime. I will not go to war with Iberia because you're afraid some barbarian far off to the west thinks "his daddy can kick your daddy's behind".

If you want war with Iberia, then go fight alongside the Germans.
This is my decision. I will not be manipulated by your taunts.

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I don't quite understand why you took my motions to be some sort of a request to you, when, in fact, they have little to do with you. You will do what the Senate orders you to do! It remains to be seen what that will be, but whatever it is, you will do it.

Still, even though I don't need to convince you in particular that these things proposed are the right things to do, and even though you have been extremely impolite in your responses, I shall attempt to reason with you in a civil manner.

Do you not realize what you have done? If you had abandoned Viberi at some other time, for strategic reasons, then that would have been a strategic withdrawal. It may have been a good strategic decision, it may have been a poor one. It doesn't matter. It would have been a strategic decision of some sort. But you had not withdrawn. In your defensive plan outlined to the Senate in the Spring of 254, you clearly indicated that you planned to occupy Viberi, and build a defensive network of forts around it, and this you proceeded to do. Only when the Iberians showed up in significant numbers, and wished to pass, did you order a withdrawal allowing them to do so. Calling it a withrdawal is being too generous, I'm afraid. You retreated in the face of the enemy.

Did Quintus abandon Apollonia? Did Marcus Laevinus abandon Scodra? Did Augustus Verginius abandon his post at the Valley in the face of an egregiously overwhelming Macedonian force? I'll stop listing examples now so that my speech doesn't take all night. Roman history is filled with instances of Roman armies standing their ground against the odds. During day and at night, in rain and snow, against twice as many and three times and five times. Romans do not retreat. And you, you retreated without actually being attacked!

You, as the First Consul, may think you are appointed to run the Roman state for some time. To conduct war, to build buildings, and to train troops. I find that those all are secondary to your main appointment: to uphold Roman honor. This you did fail to do. In the process, you betrayed yourself, your familiy, the Roman Senate, the Roman People, and Mars, and others.

Our honor, Servius, is all that we really have. We like to claim we're superior to the barbarians, and the Greeks. This is how we justify our wars. We say, we are helping them by turning them into Romans. But except for our honor, we have little moral high ground to stand on. We kill people! We slaughter them like cattle. We take their land and their homes. We tear them down to replace them with grand Roman works, which we finance by taxing whatever they have left, if anything. That goes for our own people too, except the slaughtering part. We take their money, we build pretty buildings such as this one we're in right now, and we train armies and send them off to war so that we'd have something to discuss in these buildings! But they are still better off, because they are Romans. They have honor, you see? A Greek may stab you as soon as you turn your back to him, just to take your money. A barbarian may do so for fun. But not a Roman, no. A Roman will only do so over a matter of honor. Any that do so for other reason are considered murderers and are hunted down by other honorable Romans.

I guess I've digressed somewhat. My intention with the motions proposed was to try to undo some of the damage that was done. To show the people of Viberi, and all other people, including our own, that we are Romans. To show them, in case they forgot, what that means. I hope you have not forgotten.

Senator Tiberius, I realise far more greatly and consciously what I have done than you ever could. And then for you to continue on to call me a router, that I have retreated in the face of the enemy is preposterous. I should not have to remind any man amongst these proceedings of my personal involvement with Carthage. I HAVE NEVER RETREATED IN THE FACE OF THE ENEMY! You blatantly fail to see that Iberia is not yet an enemy of Rome. Though they are an inconvenience, right now they're much more like a noisy neighbor. The feud across the fence has not yet begun, and for as long as I have something to say of it, it will not begin. Unlike you, I have not forgotten the true meaning of what it is to be a Roman, and let me assure you, it is not the example you would vaunt yourself to be.

Your quest for blood and glory has dilluted your senses senator. I once respected your intuition on the battlefield and made you an integral part of our repelling forces against the Seleucids when they threatened to overrun the Republic, now you baselessly call me a coward, dishonorable, and a traitor. Though I have not always been in the best of the senate's graces due to some serious problems that ended here. *Servius points to the rotting clerk's corpse.* All of these men can tell you that I am the farthest thing from a coward that you will ever set your eyes upon!

I care not for what the rest of the senate may say of this transgression against me, but it is not an insult I will tolerate. You have continued for many years in your open rejection of logical thought in lieu of blind pride, your disgust for the opinions of the rest of the senate which, be they good or bad in any man's eyes, are worthy of some form of respect, and have continued most affluently in these past years in your disdain for human life, prefering men be treated as animals and hosts for you to leach yourself on.

Senator Tiberius Coruncanius, I am hereby stripping you of your legion.

Cornelius Saturninus will inherit the banner of the Roman Field Army I. At least he is a good, decent Roman.

You, you are just a sick and twisted old man whose only solution to our problems is bloodshed, conquest and slaughter. Honestly senator, what would you do, if after finding that you have conquered the world, you have left nobody in it to rule? Because that is the path you would have us take.

You make me sick. I am done with you, get out of my sight.

I fear the consul is suffering from delusion caused by the extremes of temperature that he has been exposed to. I hope he recovers his wits soon. In the meantime I will disregard his ravings.

If the consul carries out his threats against the august Tiberius Coruncanius, I will withdraw from active service myself. He might also find himself impeached on grounds of power-abuse.

I will second Motion 12.01, 12.02, 12.03, 12.04, 12.05 and 12.06.

I stand with Senator Lucius Aemilius. If the Consul strips Senator Coruncanius of his well-deserved command, then I too shall withdraw myself from active service and seek impeachment. If you cannot tolerate opinions that differ from your own, I suggest you stay away from the Senate until these proceedings are completed.

Furthermore, I am greatly disappointed in your attitude towards Motion 12.03. Roman citizens should not need military force to keep them pacified. We are all citizens of Rome and we should not forget why we are fighting in the first place. We do not fight for the benefit of Greeks or Gauls, but for the improvement of the Roman condition and for the benefit of the Republic. Already many cities within the Republic rival Rome in size and glory. This is unacceptable. The citizens of Rome, the very men whom we have lead to all corners of the world, deserve the fruits of their labors. If we do not give them proper rewards for their sacrifices, we are no better than tyrants. Do not forget, Consul, that the Senate exists to serve the Roman people, not the other way around.

*raises his eyebrows*

This attack on the Coruncanii does not go unnoticed by their devoted adoptee. Tiberius Coruncanius has what is left of honourable Roman blood running through his veins, something that the First Consul seems to be lacking at the present time.

Yes, Servius. Though young, I have been your supporter on the matters of Asia Minor and the Iberians. I have looked up facts, charted courses, considered and weighed and debated when the tide of opinion was against you. But after this last outburst in which you have plainly crossed the line between Roman stoicism and outright greed for power, I must denounce you and suggest that you think about your words before they betray your true leanings even further.

You speak out against the motion to install a Tribune, saying that such a position would hamper the running of the Republic. Yet we all see through this, to the bare fact that you cannot tolerate any opinion but your own. You are not acting out of a will to do good for the people of Rome, but to do good for your own house and your own comfortable retirement!

My adopted family have me at their side in this matter. I will sit as Achilles in my tent outside of Halicarnassus until such time that this Agamemnon we have before us ceases from his arrogance!

Senator Verginius, honestly, think about your proposal. A hippodrome and an ampitheatre? These buildings offer the city of Rome nothing. They don't provide it with anything else that it doesn't already have and are a significant waste of hard made denarii.

As for my "ravings", grandfather, they are hardly such, and I am hardly a power hungry tyrant. I would like for you to cite one instance, one, singular instance where I have gained from the course I have taken. Everything I have done has been done for Rome, and for you to stand by and agree with this creature's vile and baseless accusations against me is only an insult to your own sense of honor.

Senator Barbetus, good for my own house? For my own retirement? Senator think about what you're saying. My own house has abandoned me, and when I leave this consulship in two and a half years there will be nowhere for me to go but back to my legion to wait. Every time I propose anything, it is outright and violently attacked, but in 20/20 hindsight I dare you to say that anything I have done has not benefited this Republic moreso than had it not been done. I can tolerate any opinion Appius, but that does not mean that I have to sit here and take these groundless attacks.

Good Senator, you may argue all you wish, but you will speak politely in this house, or I'll remove your tounge myself!

As for my command, you can have it. I'd rather not risk being ordered to do something foolish.

Hm, more of the same. Threats from the man who first spoke impolitely, lectures on ettiquette from the man who first saw fit to ignore such an idea.

But, you will keep your command. Given the recent display I fear the fate of Rome should I be forced to leave the consulship prematurely.

Um, whoa. Can we have a little civility here?

First of all, I do object to the stripping of Senator Coruncanius' title. Though we have rarely ever seen eye-to-eye on issues, I do respect his ability as a commander. This man did bring Greece under Roman control, after all.

However, that said, I must once again disagree with him on the issues. His motions regarding Iberia have only one eventual outcome: war. And a war with Iberia is not the best thing we can have right now. Need proof?

a) In terms of logistics, if we conduct a war against the Iberians it will be the largest war we have fought, outpacing those against Greece, Macedon, Seleucia, or Carthage. The reason is that we border Iberia in so many places, and they share borders with few other factions. Who knows how many troops are in their homelands?

b) I do not believe we have adequate commanders in the area should a need for them arise. The first, Augustus Verginius, is a legendary barbarian-slayer, but is unfortunately of advanced age. It would not be the best thing for our forces if the Senator's legion is suddenly left leaderless in the middle of a campaign against Iberia. The second, Quintus Naevus, is an Upper House Senator, and thus, as Marcus Laevinius and Gaius Rutilus have proven, unfit for command.

Motion 12.06 is designed to avert war but still flex Roman muscle. The Iberian incursions into Roman territory have been numerous, and we have showed little resistance. They know that a war with us would be equally destructive on both sides. It is time to let them know that we are ready for one (OOC- Kind of like the Mutually Assured Destruction principle of the Cold War).

And as for Roman honor, I'm afraid that there are indeed more important things. Mainly survival.

Now excuse me Senators, for I am needed elsewhere.

*Marcellus departs the Senate floor.*

Senators!

As there appears to be no Speaker present I will call for some calm here.

Consul, your threat to remove my elder from command is unlike you and not welcome.....regardless of what cause you felt at the time warranted such an act, I strongly request that you reconsider this matter.

Over these past years I have considered you friend, I trust that you also consider me the same. We two, span our two great families and I hope that both families will see eye-to-eye for the good of the Republic.

Now, Elder father, whilst I agree that the abandonment of Viberii was and, still is, a smudge on the Repubic's honour I understand that it was nessasary at the time. The Consul did not wish to start a new War nor loose nearly a Legion for little or no gain.

IF there had been more significant re-enforcement nearby, then the Consul would have ordered otherwise. However, there was not and abandonment was all that was open.

Surely, as a wise Elder of my family, you can see the validity of this act. I know this does not sit well with the Consul, perhaps he even feels as bad and agreeved as you do on the matter.

However, I do not believe that Motions that bring us directly into conflict with Iberia without supporting Motions to allow the raising of additional troop formations are folly.

I will propose the following:

Motion 12.07 - The Senate instructs the Consul to ensure that three Legions full are stationed along the Republic/Iberian borders.

Motion 12.08 - Upon approval and completion of Motion 12.07; the Senate instructs the Consul to not permit any more Iberian incursions into Republican territory to go unchallenged. So, any more incursions are to be met with Force and expelled by any means nessasary.

I hope, that these motions balance both Tactical prudence and a hardened attitude towards our Barbarian neighbours.

A war is coming with Iberia, weather we want it or not, I want the Republic to be united AND ready for this. The East is stable and subdued, our view must move West again whilst Afrika is completed.

I have come back from a year of hard fighting and many victories, my Consular Legion and myself will be willing to be transported to our Western border to again, defend the Republic.

However, I forsee a war with Iberia and I would like the Senate to seriously consider what they would want the Consul to do when hostilities open - what aims should the Republician armies have?

Manius, I do consider you a friend, and you have been a valuable one in the past years. As I have just said, Tiberius will not be stripped of his command. My personal grievances with him are not worth the loss of the consulship.

I will second motion 12.07. We need better defences on our Iberian border and I have been working to bring this to fruition, but more must still be done.

However, while I agree war will eventually come with Iberia, it will not come during my consulship, I will see to this as best I can, and therefore I cannot support any motion that would place us in direct conflict with them.

[SENATE SPEAKER]: Ah... I am glad to see that civility has returned to the Senate ... and that the guards have finally cleaned up the ... err... mess.

The scribes have collated the motions proposed so far:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...38&postcount=1

Please advise me of any errors. Bear in mind that a motion requires two seconders in order for it to go to a vote. The deadline for motions and their seconding is Tuesday 6pm UK time.

Senator Appius Barbatus: you proposed a re-wording of Constitutional Ammendent 12A. May I suggest you either prevail upon Qintus Libo to accept your re-wording or that you propose your own? Regardless, two seconders will be needed if it is to go to a vote.

I second Motions 12.03, 12.06, 12.07, and 12.08.

{Cornelius Saturninus}

I will second Motion 12.07, a fitting proposal for the current situation. Motion 12.08 however, another chance for a rushed war we may not be ready for, although I suppose with three legions in the area it would be a start.


The war with Iberia is coming, we all know this. The only question is how we are to handle it, how ready we will be when it starts, and what our situation is along the rest of our borders.

Therefore I propose Motion 12.09, that before any hostile action be taken against Iberia by ourselves, our situation in the East must be stable, in that there will be no more expansion and there will be at least two legions (three if possible) stationed there for purely defensive purposes.

I do recommend myself to participate in the campaign against the Iberians based on my previous submitions as to why I should, namely the knowledge about them and their style of warfare I've picked up in my studies at Greek academies and libraries where I've been travelling around and stationed at for years.

Cornelius Saturninus,

As I stated in my message, as far as I am concerned the East IS stable now. There is no opposition against us that I can see from my vantage point at our most Eastern border. It is true that there are still some minor settlements to encompass before we can achieve full stability in the East but there will be an arrival of another Consular sized army very soon. That, coupled with the two Legions that are to return, will be more than sufficient to settle this matter within the next year. My own Consular army can be used to construct any require fortifications we need whilst this is being undertaken and defend the border at the same time.

Truth is, that the Consul has pledged that he will do all he can to avoid a war with Iberia – however, I impress upon the Senate that they understand the wording of my 2nd Motion. It stipulates that the Legions proposed under my 1st motion be in place BEFORE it takes effect. I strongly believe that three full Legions will be more than sufficient to both eject any Iberian incursion and defend our border against them when the war starts.

I am NOT proposing they be used in the offensive, or move into Iberian held regions. That would weaken our border significantly. We would require a “free” Legion or a Consular army to take the offensive against them.

What I AM calling for in my 2nd Motion (Motion #12.08) is that we make it concrete, make it clear, that we will no longer withdraw from the Iberians – when we are prepared. I am not calling for a rushed war, only that we ensure we are prepared for the war when it comes AND initiate it on OUR terms, namely, by ejecting an Iberian army from OUR lands!

I want it clear that the Iberians will start this war, not us. THEY will again “invade” our lands, to what ends who knows, but this time……this time, we will be ready AND have the full support through the Senate to ensure these Barbarians are dealt with and sent home with a clear message that we will no longer tolerate such encroachments.

Should the Iberians then take it upon themselves to test our metal against their skin….then I say we let the Three Legions in place show them the folly of their ways. Let them crash upon our defences like waves against the rocks, let them bleed their biggest and best armies upon the swords of our entrenched Legions and then….then, Senators, we can take the offensive and end this matter like we did with the Gauls all those years ago.

------------------------------------------------------------------

As the issue of my health has been brought up, I would like to point out that I am considered to be a hale and hearty individual. I feel as full of life now as the day I first entered the Senate, perhaps even more.

*in a low voice to the Senators around him*
The secret, my friends, is regular 'exercise' with my barbarian slave. The Gauls are fearsome creatures in battle and their vigor applies equally to other areas!

If I may be so bold, Manius, in regards to your mention of a "free legion", there are already three praetorian legions on the borders of Iberia. It might mean sacrificing the promise of 40,000 denarii a season before the end of my consulship, lowering it perhaps to 35,000, but I think it would be worth it to consider the following.

War with Iberia is inevitable, the question is, when it comes, how prepared does the senate want to be?

I propose a double measured plan to deal with this issue.

Firstly, the three praetorian legions in place now will be upgraded to consular sized forces. They will be stationed at their current locations of Gergovia, Comata, and the Luvavum bridge. Like you said, this is most certainly a good idea.

Secondly, I propose motion 12.10. We recruit an additional two praetorian sized legions which will be stationed at the coastal cities of Massilia and Palma.

While we do not yet hold Palma, my feelings have brought me to consider wresting it from Carthage's hands before the end of my consulship, its tactical significance could break the Iberians before the war even starts.

The purpose of the Praetorian legion in Massilia would be to allow one of our consular sized forces in Comata or Gergovia to leave their station and advance into Iberian lands for the purpose of field engagements and a counter invasion, while the Massilian force relieves their position.

The purpose of the Praetorian legion in Palma would be to maintain a tactical strike force to hit Iberia in it's heartlands at Arse or Carthago Nova while the war rages further north. I have conducted strikes like this in the past against Carthage with enormous success in terms of battlefield victories, catching their armies unprepared, tieing their forces down, and generally sowing so much chaos that they can't properly operate.

Consul,

Whilst your plan has a great number of merits I, personally, believe it too cautious. What has experience told us about the military capabilities of the Barbarian tribes? Mainly that they can out number us 4:1 and we will still prevail with ease.

Has not the historical battles against the Gauls and the more recent battles against Carthage and with my own force against both Seleucids and Ptolemites again proved this once more?

What you are proposing is certainly safe and outstanding but.....THREE Consular sized Legions!

I do not believe the cost is warranted in the slightest. What is needed is a review of the Praetorian Legions already in place, to ensure they are at the fullest strength and have the latest weapons and armour. Then perhaps ONE free ranging Consular sized Legion in reserve should hostilities breakout and to be used as the Senate sees fit.

Offensively or defensively.

Besides isn’t there a restriction in the Constitution to limit the number of Consular Legions? I believe this is in place to limit the ultimate power of the Consul but I have not reviewed the older laws for some time.

I agree with you that Palma, perhaps, has a key in this. It is not outside or remit of war against Carthage to take it, my only concern would be supply via the sea but our navies are much stronger than they were when you first entered office so this is not such a concern now.

Therefore I second Motion #12.10

(OOC: Obviously I have OOC reasons for wanting to limit the number of Consular armies….they’re just TOO strong!)