Askthepizzaguy Mafia II: The Revengening [Concluded]

Here are all of Visorslash’s posts of substance, minus a couple of jokes and stuff. Note he missed the first couple of days of the game.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Hi. Back. Will participate frequentlier.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Quills to myself.

Wll be actually betting later and voting for other items to other people later as well.

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Why the need to reassure people that you will be around to do the other votes later? The first post is excusable under the circumstances, the second looks, as God Emperor noted, like you’re just trying to show you’re acting like a proper townie.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Bet: 1 credit on.......... Major Robert dump

Comp is dead so don't really like the idea of typing item votes out to people cause it will take ages. If I have time to waste, tonight I shall do so.

And I will respond to god emperor as well.

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Posting from phone = scum.

More seriously, this comes right after Romanic’s long accusation post (like five posts later). You can’t find a single word to say about that, but you *can* spend time to explain why you’re not making any other item votes?

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Ya what? I missed day one, night one and day two cause I was away. Just saying that I will be participating in the daytime. I haven't been active because of that absence. Usually when I am active I get lynched.:laugh4:

But yeah, I will be participating as well as I can.

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The promised response to God Emperor.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

We could organise it I suppose.

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Response to my suggestion that people try finding out if resurrection is their hidden power. My don’t you sound enthusiastic. And what’s to organize?

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Sword of kahless to myself.

Bet: 2 credits on MRD time to die scum.

Anyone want the others?

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Yes, everyone can. But that is neither here or there. Vote for MRD.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Hey MRD, you reckon I should switch to voting earthling? Cause he looks scummier than you ATM, and at least you'reattepting something, even if you did lie.

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Well that’s a bit of an abrupt switch, but OK.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Earthling. We need info and soon. Otherwise I'm voting for your lynch.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

If he ain't dead tonight, he's gonna be lynched.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

You claim or we kill.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Earthling, please, answer me this:

WILL YOU CLAIM?

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What the heck was the point of all this? Chaotics have cover roles. His claiming his role would prove nothing one way or another. (Claiming his *actions* might be useful, but that’s not what you’re asking.) You’re just flogging something that doesn’t matter, over and over. Why? Just to make Earthling look bad if he doesn’t answer fast enough?

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Make me feel better. Cause then I know who I'm killing before I kill em.

Well that is if he tells the truth. ;)

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This is the post that elevated Visorslash from person of interest to major suspect to me. It’s the last sentence, which seems to have been added in an edit. With that sentence, Visor seems to be trying to deflect any idea that he might already KNOW that Earthling is telling the truth with his role claim, which would be the case for chaotics (more or less, barring any further serial killers or whatever) but not for regular evils.

Thing is – why should it even occur to you that you would need to make such a disclaimer? Clearly you wrote that first part, then had a moment of “oh :daisy: I just said something I shouldn’t have”, but how many townies would it even occur to that they’d said something suspicious? My guess is not a whole heck of a lot.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

I mean if he isn't dead tonight. I have no kill ability. :(

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And then this, 15 minutes later, a further disclaimer that oh no you didn’t mean you would *kill* Earthling, of course you’re just talking about the lynch, haha.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

I've been lynched over jokes before.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Vote: Santa's Vodka, Tannoki Suit, Lucky Badge, Security Forcefield to myself.

Bet: 2 on Earthling

Willing to trade item votes for any bulletproof ones. ;)

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And I’ll stop here. Any particular reason you’re so interested in bulletproof items, Visor? More to the point, any reason you didn’t *say* why you’re so interested in bulletproof items? You’d think someone who’d been attacked would be trumpeting it from the heavens. I assume the vig(s) did follow through, but failed.

Save Logic!
We need it to make right decisions!
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Oh.....its Backwards Logic?
Why we need that?
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He's evil?
Good enough.
Vote: Santa's Vodka, Tannooki Suit, Lucky Badge to Backward logic

If it turns out that fluffy and backwards logic are scumbuddies or at least on the same team, I'd like to say I called it.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

If it turns out that fluffy and backwards logic are scumbuddies or at least on the same team, I'd like to say I called it.

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NO U.

Mythmonster2, minus fluff:

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

Ah yes, the fun of the first day.

Bet: 1 credit on choxorn
How ya doin, buddy?

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

It's a wall o text... on the first day with no serious accusations. Granted, it is about betting and the tactics thereof, but a good as reason as any, I suppose! Certainly better than my vote on choxy.

Fold; Bet one on Earthling

Do note my confidence in the bet.

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So mythmonster is one of the people who contributed to the lynch-Earthling fund on day one, when Seon was in trouble. What I find interesting about him in particular is that
1. He changed his vote to do so; and
2. He disclaimed confidence in his new vote.
Both of these are what you might expect from a Mafioso trying to sneak in a teammate-helping vote without drawing too much notice. “It’s as good a reason as any!” = FAKE.

(Note also that I don’t think mythmonster has said boo in this thread since I first pointed out the possible Seon connections of him and a few other people, which reminds me of Husar in VotA.)

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

When did Byzantine state that? (The pro-chaotic part, not the picking on a new member)

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

Yo, Byzantine; no hard feelings from me to you. I dunno about you. You might still think me suspicious. Also, Texans FTW!

Besides that, why was Captain lynched anyways? I don't see anything particularly bad he did, but then suddenly people started placing 10 credit bets on him.

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Byzantine had had a bet of a couple of credits or so on mythmonster at some point day one, before moving it. And mythmonster needs to reassure Byzantine that *he* doesn’t have any hard feelings from it? That’s what you call snuggling in the mafia trade, and it is extremely scummy.

The last bit just looks self-conscious.

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

What I think is going on is that if you bet on a person, they get lynched, and they're anti-mafia, then you get a positive return. Also, betting more credits gives more chances of that person being killed. Two people betting 50 each would beat 5 people betting 5 each, if I have this down correctly.

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Being helpful to a bow-wow-wow question about why ever bet more than 1 credit. The first part is wrong, but half the game seemed to have that impression for a while there. “If I have this down correctly”? Of course you do have it down correctly, MM, you just made a comment about Captain Blackadder’s lynch that presupposes that being the case. FAKE.

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

Meh, I don't see anyone particularly trustworthy of the items, nor do I expect myself to be able to use any of them. Also, dead people talking makes me confused. As for the lynch... not quite sure yet.
Vote: Abstain

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Oh, you’re confused.

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

Vote: a completely inoffensive name

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This is the day before the big bandwagon on ACIN; it’s only day two.

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

Yeah, kinda expected that. Sorry for not providing any support for the vote; I only had a minute and I just wanted to get my vote through, since I (correctly) predicted I wouldn't be able to get on for a day or so. His vote was only bandwagoning (the Renata one, by the way, I find very weak) and then he instantly went OMGUS on the first person to speak against him.

However, if this scan is true, then we should go after who we have conclusive evidence against.

Fold; Bet: 5 credits on YLC

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Fluffy gives him a “ur doin it wrong” macro for the content-free vote and in return we get mega-flinch:
 “I knew I was going to be in trouble” (really? People make content-free votes all the time and never get called on it, why so self-conscious?)
 apology when it’s not needed
 excuses when they are not needed
 vote change when *it* is not needed

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

So then. Who was it that scanned YLC?

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Stirring the pot against B-ray once YLC turns up evil, but never follows up.

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

Agh, this back and forth between Earthling and Major is making me head hurt. At this point, I'm inclined to say they both are innocent. As usual, I am being completely out of the loop, not being able to find any threads that are sufficiently thick enough for me to condemn someone to death.

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Oh, he’s confused again. More to the point, it’s awfully easy for a mafioso to call innocents innocent, isn’t it? Just to keep his own hands conspicuously squeaky clean while the town destroys itself?

(I do think Earthling is innocent.)

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

Romanic sure seems to be retaliatory and perhaps protective of Subotan. Honestly, 30 credits? A bit much, don't you think? I'll give you a reason to start explaining.

Bet: 8 credits on Subotan

Also, time I get into this "item" thing.
Vote: Red shell to myself

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As I complained at the time, this is a horrible vote – nobody should look at Romanic’s vote there and think there’s any way it could have been intended to save *Subotan*. ACIN, maybe, but not Subotan. (Jolt, wasn’t it you who did this too? Neutral Jolt? LOL) I think mythmonster just seized on this as a reason to add some credits to what was otherwise a rather cruddy bandwagon.

As an aside, it’s interesting this is in fact his very first item vote all game long. It’s hardly a strong scum tell in itself, but I *have* noticed that sort of behavior before in scum in the item-heavy NOTW games. Item votes are difficult for scummers. You have no interest in giving stuff to townies, and your instincts are going to be backwards even if you try (you’ll be wanting to give them to the worst possible recipients, not the best). You don’t want to vote stuff to your teammates, because you don’t want to draw more connections between you. So you just don’t vote for items at all; you rely on the regular lynch votes as an indicator of your participation.

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

Dear God, I leave for a day and this happens. Honestly, this is bloody despicable. All I can tell is that this night will be very, very, interesting.

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Last comment: “you townies sure suck” (for the civplayah lynch). Hell of a comment form someone who hadn’t even had a stake in what was happening all day.

Vote: Santa's Vodka, Tannooki Suit, Lucky Badge to Backward logic
Not sure yet who to bet on, will do that later.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Mythmonster2, minus fluff:

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Ooh, me, me next!

fold, bet 40: mythmonster

Writing it all out like this I'm significantly more suspicious of mythmonster than of visorslash. Visor has a general suspicious look due to self-consciousness and one OMG did you just say that post; almost every single one of mythmonster's posts is scummy in one way or another, plus there's a potential link to Seon.

I'm also curious if his butt got singed last night, metaphorically speaking.

I'd like some bets on him.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

If it turns out that fluffy and backwards logic are scumbuddies or at least on the same team, I'd like to say I called it.

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BL is already a confirmed innocent.

Speaking of which, why isn't he getting all or near all item votes???

Eh it was more a jab at how he was giving him items I myself wanted than actual suspicion. Anyway he might not be a townie, remember the town is evil; glorious light doesnt sound very evil, he could have been revived and recruited from a good aligned faction.

Vote:

30% bulletproof chance. Rudolph's (TANOOKI SUIT)
10% bulletproof chance. Psycho Andy's (LUCKY BADGE)
10% retaliatory kill chance. Psycho Andy's (OMEGA VIRUS SAMPLE)
10% bulletproof chance. Rudolph's (SANTA'S VODKA)
10% bulletproof chance. Bane Anded's (SECURITY FORCEFIELD)
To backwardlogic

10% vigilante kill chance. Claire Raval's (CUSTOM BERETTA)

To DiY

Custom Beretta would be nice :yes:

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Speaking of which, why isn't he getting all or near all item votes???

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Giving him the passive item stuff seems to be the best, because ultimately he has a maximum action number per night, so for example giving to him a bus driver item, role block item, vig item all in one go wouldn't work out. At the same time however, stocking him up with so many items will likely just end up with him being a prime steal target, but anyway, a 60% bulletproof chance with a 10% retaliatory should be enough discouragement for murder.

Bet 3 Credits: Mythmonster

Interesting case laid out, worth pursuing.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

I think people shouldn't be flocking to certain people for advice who have a track record of not delivering.

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:inquisitive:

Vote:
10% bulletproof chance. Rudolph's (SANTA'S VODKA)
30% bulletproof chance. Rudolph's (TANOOKI SUIT)
10% bulletproof chance. Psycho Andy's (LUCKY BADGE)
10% bulletproof chance. Bane Anded's (SECURITY FORCEFIELD)
10% retaliatory kill chance. Psycho Andy's (OMEGA VIRUS SAMPLE)
10% investigatory chance + FACTION SCANNING ITEM. Bane Anded's (JEDI HOLOCRON)
To Backwards Logic

I think an investigation item would be much more useful for him than vig items, since we got plenty of people with vig items already. I am not sure about the evidence on Mythmonster, will have to read more it and vote later as always :embarassed:

Bet: 10 credits on Mythmonster

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Originally Posted by Believer

What's the point? We're already down a lot of Evils.

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And what makes you so sure she is evil?

Oh, I have a surprise for town that I found:
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/wir45gHgQPKk9

Should be pretty easy to win from this point on.

Hover over link, and what do we find. You can't catch me, I'm the pizzaguy man.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Hover over link, and what do we find. You can't catch me, I'm the pizzaguy man.

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I will if I send Mr.Peanut after you! :laugh4:

After speaking a bit with Renata, I will cast another 10 in the mythmonster, pool.
Bet: 10 on Mythmonster

Town deserves to lose, not going to bother anymore.

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Originally Posted by Jolt

Oh, I have a surprise for town that I found:
http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/wir45gHgQPKk9

Should be pretty easy to win from this point on.

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https://i1110.photobucket.com/albums...g?t=1304711778

Oh hey, a bandwagon against me. I was actually gonna drop out of this game, but this will work too! Hell, while we're at it, let's do some public revealing! I have a weapon that gives me a 10% kill chance. My personal goal is to kill two people with that weapon. Also, interesting how Renata starts voting against me... after (s?)he got me to attempt to kill some people. Oh wait, (s)he didn't mention that, did (s)he? Ah well, looks like my last day here. If there are any Psychotic Mafia buddies, give me a PM, just so I can know.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

And what makes you so sure she is evil?

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Innocent until proven guilty. Or atleast a hint of suspicious behaviour would be nice. Present me something, right now it looks like a barely active player is grasping at straws to get an active player lynched. Hit me.

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

Oh hey, a bandwagon against me. I was actually gonna drop out of this game, but this will work too! Hell, while we're at it, let's do some public revealing! I have a weapon that gives me a 10% kill chance. My personal goal is to kill two people with that weapon. Also, interesting how Renata starts voting against me... after (s?)he got me to attempt to kill some people. Oh wait, (s)he didn't mention that, did (s)he? Ah well, looks like my last day here. If there are any Psychotic Mafia buddies, give me a PM, just so I can know.

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Enough people knew you were one of my volunteer vigs, mythmonster. Is that supposed to exhonerate you or something? There's a reason I didn't let you in on my real suspects and only sent you after lurkers. Nice timing to show up again now.

@ Believer -- I'd love it if I could say that Kagemusha has ulterior motives, but he's actually dead. Unless he's just poking at me for the lulz, he's serious about suspecting me.

Actually, I was just planning on stopping playing Mafia all together. I've even stated it over on CFC. So if you're gonna go ahead with this plan to kill me, just let it be known you're wasting this town's precious days. As for why I'm not dropping out... hell, do I really want to put some poor schmuck into this situation?

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

do I really want to put some poor schmuck into this snafu?

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Fixed

Depends. Is the "fu" part directed to me, implying that you are with Renata on this one, or in this whole game in general?

?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/snafu

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–noun
1.
a badly confused or ridiculously muddled situation.

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It's just a funny word that fits the situation... when there is an opportunity to use 'snafu' and make sense, that opportunity should always be seized.

It also stands for Situation Normal All :daisy: Up

[Language please - GH]

How about you address some of my actual arguments, MM? I'm at 2/3 on the "pity me" argument here, not to mention Earthling, and I've about had it. It's not get out of lynch free. Defend your actions, including your failure to respond to my vig-request PM but quick arrival here post-accusation.

I can get behind Renata's case on mythmonster.

Bet: 10 on mythmonster2


Current tally, after my vote should be:

111 Earthling (Visorslash 2, dcmort 40, Psychonaut 39, Greyblades 30)
73 mythmonster (Renata 40, DIY 3, Believer 10, God Emperor 10, Romanic 10)
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?? not voting (everyone else)

Right now I am leaning towards betting on mythmonster because Renata does make a decent case here. However, the town is in a somewhat bad shape. 14 townies have died compared to just one confirmed chaotic so far.

If this next lynch turns out to not be chaotic, we really needs to start changing things up. Some people are hardly talking. MRD for all of his useless posts kept talking about how incompetent we are in ignoring those that hardly say anything.

Not to put pressure on anyone, but I would like to hear more talk/contribution from Crazed Rabbit, landlubber, Red_spy, Subotan, Robbiecon, B-Ray and Ironside. obviously not all of these guys are going to be chaotic, there is a good chance none of them are chaotic. However, the more someone talks, the easier it is to catch them slipping up with their words. We can't afford to have the townie to chaotic death ratio hit 20:1.

Beskar seems to have given up on the game, but I'm not. I will play along with your reasoning Renata, but if myth turns out to be innocent, I'm not placing any trust in you anymore. kage seems to think you are a good lynching target and I want him to give his reasons why either this day phase or the next night phase.

EDIT: Also, if Earthling could do the exact opposite and be more quiet this next round, that would be great. He is 99% likely to be innocent in my book and this whole debacle with MRD filled us all up with lots of noise that distracted us.

Bet 4 on Mythmonster. I'll follow Renata's lead but honestly those huge bandwagons don't make a lot of sense to me.

Vote: JEDI HOLOCRON to myself

It has sentimental value.

The rest of this stuff looks like a whole bunch of nonsense.

Bet: 3 credits on Renata

I have no idea what is going on or what we are trying to lynch people based on anymore. Thread skimming FTW.

Vote: Lucky Badge to Renata

Because I am a fanboy.

Posting from phone is scum? My computer was dead, I had no laptop and I was actually using an iPad. I'm not going to give up on playing this game because my comp is dead. Don't believe me? Ask the guys at the hotseat forums. I missed the first couple of days and nights, then my comp crashed and then I got myself a laptop.

I often check the thread from my phone but i can't post. I believe the reason it says that this is posted from a mobile device is that I'm also logged in on my phone. That tag on the bottom of this post is absolutely useless

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Posting from phone is scum? My computer was dead, I had no laptop and I was actually using an iPad. I'm not going to give up on playing this game because my comp is dead. Don't believe me? Ask the guys at the hotseat forums. I missed the first couple of days and nights, then my comp crashed and then I got myself a laptop.

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Getting a bit riled up over this, are we?
Bet 20 on Visorslash

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Originally Posted by Link

Getting a bit riled up over this, are we?
Bet 20 on Visorslash

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...Didn't you just do the same thing a few pages ago?

Bet: 5 credits on Mythmonster

Tanooki suit to Shlin
Santa's Vodka to Backwards Logic
Lucky Badge to Backwards Logic
Omega Virus to Backwards Logic
Security Forcefield to Backwards Logic

Should help if the confirmed innocent gets attacked again.

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Originally Posted by Believer

Innocent until proven guilty. Or atleast a hint of suspicious behaviour would be nice. Present me something, right now it looks like a barely active player is grasping at straws to get an active player lynched. Hit me.

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No. Sorry but in mafia.It is guilty until proven innocent. I get all the same vibes from Renata, as i did in the Star Wars game, when she was a Sith. She is doing lot of orchestrating and driving lot of cases, with not any kind of results in the orchestrated actions, also she has serious tendency of flip flopping in her cases, which tell me that she is coming up with those in order to appear innocent rather then actually trying to find the Chaotics.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

No. Sorry but in mafia.It is guilty until proven innocent. I get all the same vibes from Renata, as i did in the Star Wars game, when she was a Sith. She is doing lot of orchestrating and driving lot of cases, with not any kind of results in the orchestrated actions, also she has serious tendency of flip flopping in her cases, which tell me that she is coming up with those in order to appear innocent rather then actually trying to find the Chaotics.

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I see.
Please supply me with more of the actual behaviour and not your vibes. Voting for her based on your vibes requires too much trust, I'm not willing to give that away so freely.

@ Kage -- Changing votes is not a scum tell. Changing votes is not a scum tell. Changing votes is not a scum tell ... Argh.

@ ACIN --

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I will play along with your reasoning Renata, but if myth turns out to be innocent, I'm not placing any trust in you anymore.

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Right. You never gave any indication of trusting me in the first place and in fact have no reason to considering I spent a whole day accusing you. I also don't see a bet, for all the "I will play along" stuff.

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Originally Posted by Believer

I see.
Please supply me with more of the actual behaviour and not your vibes. Voting for her based on your vibes requires too much trust, I'm not willing to give that away so freely.

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Seriously, Believer, did you miss that Kagemusha is dead? You can trust him all you like unless you think he's doing this for the lulz; the question is his judgment. He's wrong about my behavior in that game. I was innocent for about 2/3 of it, and once recruited spent about 24 hours posting up a storm then all but disappeared into "don't look at me" mode.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Seriously, Believer, did you miss that Kagemusha is dead? You can trust him all you like unless you think he's doing this for the lulz; the question is his judgment. He's wrong about my behavior in that game. I was innocent for about 2/3 of it, and once recruited spent about 24 hours posting up a storm then all but disappeared into "don't look at me" mode.

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Yes I missed that.
But isn't it his judgement that I'm questioning? I'm asking for more of a case and less of his "feeling". I'm all for voting you, but not because someone just had the wrong/right feeling. I'd rather trust my own feeling over that of another, unless they can convince me.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

Posting from phone is scum? My computer was dead, I had no laptop and I was actually using an iPad. I'm not going to give up on playing this game because my comp is dead. Don't believe me? Ask the guys at the hotseat forums. I missed the first couple of days and nights, then my comp crashed and then I got myself a laptop.

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:stare:

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Originally Posted by Choxorn

:stare:

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You call that a serious face?
GAZE UPON MY SERIOUS FACE.
https://i1110.photobucket.com/albums...g?t=1304725131

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Originally Posted by Renata

@ ACIN --

Right. You never gave any indication of trusting me in the first place and in fact have no reason to considering I spent a whole day accusing you. I also don't see a bet, for all the "I will play along" stuff.

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Meh, don't really care you spent a whole accusing me. You have accused a lot of people, so I don't really take offense to it.

Also, I forgot about doing the bet when I typed it up. Bet: 15 credits on mythmonster

So, there you go.

Unvote: Lucky Badge to Renata
Unvote: Jedi Holocron to Diemondieu (Diamondeye)
Unvote: Santa's Vodka to Visorslash
Fold

I'm not placing any bets or voting items untill this gets a better solution.

Vote: Santa's Vodka to Renata
Vote: Gag to Renata
Vote: Tanooki Suit to Renata
Vote: Lucky Badge to Renata
Vote: Omega Virus Sample to Renata
Vote: Custom Beretta to Renata
Vote: Jedi Holocron to me
Vote: Killer Rabbit to Renata
Vote: Security Forcefield to Renata
And with that, I call it a day. See you all after I'm dead.

Fold.

Vote: All items for Renata

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Everything but the holocron?
WHY.

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Originally Posted by mythmonster2

Vote: Santa's Vodka to Renata
Vote: Gag to Renata
Vote: Tanooki Suit to Renata
Vote: Lucky Badge to Renata
Vote: Omega Virus Sample to Renata
Vote: Custom Beretta to Renata
Vote: Jedi Holocron to me
Vote: Killer Rabbit to Renata
Vote: Security Forcefield to Renata
And with that, I call it a day. See you all after I'm dead.

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....

Oh.

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Originally Posted by Renata

(I do think Earthling is innocent.)

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Hate to call out something like this, but this is one of the scummier statements here in a while. You need to explain to me (fortunately it sounds like the sort of thing that can be explained in private) why this is the case. This whole time including through last night, Night Four, you relentlessly called me a liar and implied I was scum. I'd like to hear what changed your mind last night, it could be that you or some contact of yours followed through on a detective scan or something mundane. But you wouldn't just abandon a case and pursue someone like mythmonster randomly so what you're saying does not add up today Renata, especially when your former target was me.

(and the cases on Mythmonster and Visorslash are kinda shabby. I don't know what process you went through, if your goal was to only read their posts alone maybe that's how you arrived at your conclusions. I don't see how you could have arrived at accusing those two and not several others whose behavior is the same if not worse, Warman, Rabbit who showed up late and have just been in about one bandwagon, etc... Those post by post attempted breakdowns emphasize what are probably null tells in points like minor parts of the first lynch on Seon - well Seon and MRD are dead and you weren't in the clear there yourself - or item votes to oneself which a zillion people have done.)

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Originally Posted by Renata

There's also a player I think is very likely innocent whose name hasn't really come up as such in public yet (and I'd like to keep it that way). Shlin knows who it is. I'd like to get a bulletproof item and transfer it to him.

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Something is extremely wrong here. There is no indication such a thing is possible, at all.

Here's my item votes. Is that it seems rather likely that shlin, who I of course rather believe is Innocent, revived BL, and as such should have future revival ability attempts, so he needs to be kept alive. Not trying to give the chaotics help here but it's obvious enough if it is true, from his faction claim on thread, that the chaotics would figure it out. So he should get some more defense too, might be even more important than BL because he can continue to revive others. And I've got nothing against the Evil Faction, it's only a couple like South Park, Cosa Nostra (sp?) and any unknowns who remain most dangerous for disguised killers (I know nothing about who Cosa Nostra could be and South Park strikes me as where that "strange being" who is a multiple-time nightkiller would fit as a guess) and dooming the rest of the town for their selfnishess rather than factions with many of their evil members dead. But might have a little more to say later about that in general, as I've said in the past I think folks like Bow-wow-wow sharing their info they must have could help the town.


vote: SANTA'S VODKA to Backwards Logic
GAG to shlin
TANOOKI SUIT to Backwards Logic
LUCKY BADGE to shlin
OMEGA VIRUS SAMPLE to shlin
JEDI HOLOCRON to Backwards Logic
Security Forcefield to Backwards Logic
CUSTOM BERETTA, KILLER RABBIT to Backwards Logic

I suppose I should vote, but I don't encourage the mythmonster bandwagon at all, not going to waste the town's credits like that with him and me being the alternatives. I'd love to not have us all lynch a guy who's been surviving night attacks from bad guys (though the one it seems was Jolt) you know but killing another person for no reason is no better. Pending what I might hear from Renata I still suspect Bet: 5 credits on Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by Thefluffyone93

Everything but the holocron?
WHY.

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YOU WILL NEVER KNOW! AHAHAHAHAHAH!

I've never though you were likely scum, Earthling, and I have never encouraged your lynch or your vigging, though I haven't fought very hard against it until now that you would otherwise be the default candidate and I have people I'd much rather see get some credits put on them. Ask ANYONE who I have dealth with privately what I've said to them about you. You just frustrate me beyond all reason.

What I have not done is allow you to distort the record with falsehoods, where I could manage it. And for the most part I haven't defended you in public until now, only corrected a few mistakes like Jolt's yesterday, because having done so innumerable times in games in the past, I have learned that the aggravation I inevitably get from all sides for doing so is not worth it. I'd rather be lynched than spend the amount of time and effort on it it always takes. I can't deal with the drama any more.

You were the alternative candidate to Seon for most of day one. I have a hard time believing that, if you were both scum, other scum would not have flinched in a big way in there somewhere. Nothing like that happened; the moves that look most like potential flinches all came from now-proven innocents. As well, I know you, and this behavior in general, right down to lying and all of that, is typical of you and not a scum tell. But the Seon near-lynch is the biggest thing.

I had some thought earlier today that your apparent role as the Black Knight might possibly indicate a neutral role (Black Knight was 3rd party in that CFC game, not mafia; the mafia were the Knights of Ni), but wasn't one of the early deaths the Killer Rabbit from that game? If so that theory doesn't hold water either.

That's where I am on you right now. I'm not going to talk about it anymore unless someone asks me about it directly.

It is possible to transfer items from player to player; someone I talk to brought it up and I asked about it yesterday. The details are finicky in places, so ask before you do it.

As far as my cases being shabby ... yeah. I don't suck at this game, that's all I'm going to say about that.

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I don't suck at this game, that's all I'm going to say about that.

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But you do when trying to determine whether I am scum or not. Twice you've done this to me and twice you've been wrong (This being the second time). :P

I have never played with a lot of you, so I don't know almost anyone here, I don't know how anyone plays. (Except for a couple of people.)

To be fair, you and other people are just wrong, I've only lied like 3 or 4 times in at least the past 10 games and everyone who pays attention knows it. That reminds me I actually should ask if people are being serious about asking about my roleclaim or just lying themselves (like Jolt) or plain not paying attention, because I've claimed ability, item, role & faction, and even my playing card in the thread already. Visorslash should ask nicely for a summary if he couldn't be bothered otherwise. But I'm really not lying about anything more this time just like always, it'd just be a repeat of "nope, he can't be Innocent, he's lying." After the lynch: "oh, I guess he was" next game: "Hey Earthling remember when you lied about being Innocent last game..." I already explained that I did lie on purpose about Skooma, first to you in private, but it was for a decent enough reason if only for our factional interests alone, and was also just bad luck, if I'd guessed that Skooma was Clippy instead of just guessing 50/50 he was Rudolph people might still be believing I was a full detective guy or something and the scum would be confused about me even more instead of that I'd just heard of a faction scan. And anything else as I said is completely unimportant or nonsense that you can hardly call anything any more than the Texas jokes.

The one thing is a good point and I would be honest to say I don't know how I could disprove it. It's actually a reasonable hypothesis - a wrong hypothesis, but one nevertheless that could sound decent to a random townie on a random unrelated faction, that I could be a neutral role, the cover/neutral guy on the Python faction. I'm not and I want to clearly say I never said I was, but I could understand if people who (had) tried to accuse me at tried to think of something plausible like that at least. However as I continue to want to help the town and not being easy for the scum to nightkill I know has got to a be a pain for them it would still be a bad reason to go after me even if you did think that. Really it would be great (for me of course anyway) to hear from any remaining Pythons because I would personally worry if there are more out there that they would be the cover roles, though we could only have four total, that's all the possible characters listed anyway.

And yes, I don't really have a motive to get in the way of another random lynch today and like ACIN said I'm not gaining much by talking here so I'll recognize that. But I will say I do not personally believe the case on mythmonster is that great. Between the two I'd even say Visorslash is better. Betting credits on who I think is scum and really hope we get the items to those Innocent evil guys today, so there's that.

Bet: 19 credits on Earthling.

All you said about MRD was wrong.

CR

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Why the need to reassure people that you will be around to do the other votes later? The first post is excusable under the circumstances, the second looks, as God Emperor noted, like you’re just trying to show you’re acting like a proper townie.

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Because inactivity is bad? Just kinda saying that I will be kind of actively doing stuff, not just lurking and random posts.

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Posting from phone = scum.

More seriously, this comes right after Romanic’s long accusation post (like five posts later). You can’t find a single word to say about that, but you *can* spend time to explain why you’re not making any other item votes?

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It wasn't a phone, it was an iPad. And my computer WAS dead. Ask the hotseat fellas. (Second bit) Cause I'm lazy with typing on that damn thing. :P

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The promised response to God Emperor.

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Yeah.

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Response to my suggestion that people try finding out if resurrection is their hidden power. My don’t you sound enthusiastic. And what’s to organize?

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I don't see people organising a reviver. Couldn't we hand some credits to someone to revive townies? At least that was my thinking about that. But I'm probably wrong, as usual. :P

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Well that’s a bit of an abrupt switch, but OK.

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Fair amount of posts inbetween those though. And the comments from the people made me doubt MRD's scumminess. But the bandwagon was rolling too far ahead, and I didn't want to waste credits. PLus there was always a chance I was wrong, as usual. :P

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What the heck was the point of all this? Chaotics have cover roles. His claiming his role would prove nothing one way or another. (Claiming his *actions* might be useful, but that’s not what you’re asking.) You’re just flogging something that doesn’t matter, over and over. Why? Just to make Earthling look bad if he doesn’t answer fast enough?

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Uh... yeah. I have a really, really bad memory at stuff like this. I can remember dates, numbers and stuff, but I completely forgot about this. But it would've been nice to see it. :P

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This is the post that elevated Visorslash from person of interest to major suspect to me. It’s the last sentence, which seems to have been added in an edit. With that sentence, Visor seems to be trying to deflect any idea that he might already KNOW that Earthling is telling the truth with his role claim, which would be the case for chaotics (more or less, barring any further serial killers or whatever) but not for regular evils.

Thing is – why should it even occur to you that you would need to make such a disclaimer? Clearly you wrote that first part, then had a moment of “oh I just said something I shouldn’t have”, but how many townies would it even occur to that they’d said something suspicious? My guess is not a whole heck of a lot.

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Yes, it was edited in. I don't understand what you're saying. :(. I wrote the second bit after reading someone's elses post about a cover role.) Well I have a habit of saying crap that gets me lynched. And thinking ahead in mafia games ain't really my strong suit. *Example: THe CHamber).

I am pretty self conscious of what I type, yes.

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And then this, 15 minutes later, a further disclaimer that oh no you didn’t mean you would *kill* Earthling, of course you’re just talking about the lynch, haha.

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Well I don't have a kill ability. SO I can't really.

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And I’ll stop here. Any particular reason you’re so interested in bulletproof items, Visor? More to the point, any reason you didn’t *say* why you’re so interested in bulletproof items? You’d think someone who’d been attacked would be trumpeting it from the heavens. I assume the vig(s) did follow through, but failed.

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Wait, were you getting people to vig me?

I want the bulletproof items cause I don't want to die at night. :D Or at day for that matter, but I'm not a particularly good avioder of being lynched.

If the previous tally was accurate, the currtent tally of bets stands as such:

100 on Earthling - (Visorslash 2, dcmort 40, Psychonaut 39, Greyblades 30, Crazed Rabbit 19)
87 on mythmonster - (Renata 40, DIY 3, God Emperor 10, Romanic 10, 4 DiamondEye, 5 Skooma Addict, 15 ACIN)
20 on Visorslash - (Link 20)
5 on Crazed Rabbit - (Earthling 5)

Renata's case against Visorlash was more convincing to me than the case against mythmonster, especially after myth's (apparently legit) revelation that he was already planning on dropping mafia altogether. But Visor clearly isn't going to get lynched at this point. Earthling leads the bets and has been a controversial figure pretty much the whole game. He seems sincere about trying to find the bad guys, but he's made some contradictory statements and is way too talkative for my tastes.

So for all practical purposes, it's down to Earthling and mythmonster now. And either way, a lot of people's credits are going to be wasted. I think Earthling is the better lynch right now, and since he's already leading, I'll put my credits there.

bet: 10 credits on Earthling

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

If it turns out that fluffy and backwards logic are scumbuddies or at least on the same team, I'd like to say I called it.

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They aren't on the same faction, I know that for a fact.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Anyway he [Backwards Logic] might not be a townie, remember the town is evil; glorious light doesnt sound very evil, he could have been revived and recruited from a good aligned faction.

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I had thought of this possibility, too. What if one of the Chaotics can use revive to recruit previously dead players? Even if not, there's got to be some drawback or special requirements to reviving. Perhaps it's a one-time only ability? This is the only revive we've seen, after all. Regardless, I don't really suspect Backward Logic just because he's been revived, but I am curious why we haven't already seen any revives until now.

EDIT: Also...
Vote: SECURITY FORCEFIELD to myself

Earthling, can you just not be like this one game? Please?

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Renata's case against Visorlash was more convincing to me than the case against mythmonster

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What about my defence? Why do you think I'm scum for?

For what its worth, I do think that pursuing Earthling's case is just a gigantic distraction. Jolt was most likely killed to further frame him, particular since Jolt was one of his critics.

In any case, its evidently working, people are wasting credits voting Earthling, and those who are voting myth (or for that matter any other alternative suspect) are forced into betting higher.

This is turning into another mini MRD vs civplayah, but I'd wager that there's at least one chaotic on the earthling wagon trying to push it so that everyone's credits get wasted.

I mean like if you spend 20 credits as a scumbag and manage to force a mislynch, you've just wasted more than a hundred credits, the ratio is frightening.

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But Visor clearly isn't going to get lynched at this point.

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There is still more than 24 hours IIRC

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dcmort 40, Psychonaut 39, Greyblades 30, Crazed Rabbit 19)

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These people need to explain truly why they are voting so high. Just because Earthling was wrong about MRD isn't going to cut it, people are wrong a lot in mafia and if Earthling truly was a Chaotic then going after MRD for multiple rounds and just thrusting himself into the spotlight was just plain silly.

I mean coming up with a very public scheme on round one just to attract attention? Which by the way got quite a few people voting him just for it? Come on. His teammates would have been yelling at him to keep quiet, but what's happening?

Not to mention, he's been attacked multiple times already (assuming he is the black knight) at night, at least one by a figure who has been killing. A quick recheck shows that on night 2 an unknown assailant blasts his hand off, and on night 3, a fellow with a motif of power in the write up tries to attack him, likely the person that killed B-Ray on night 1.

Hence I'm inclined to think that at least one of the attacks on B-Ray was a chaotic.

Listen to Renata for once. You people are wasting your money on Earthling. He's always like this.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

What about my defence? Why do you think I'm scum for?

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*shrug* Your defense wasn't bad. I didn't feel strongly about you being scum in the first place. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, of Renata's two cases, the one against mythmonster was weaker, but it's the one which has gained popular support. Earthling seems more suspicious than either of you, and I'm voting for him, not you.

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Originally Posted by B_Ray

*shrug* Your defense wasn't bad. I didn't feel strongly about you being scum in the first place. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, of Renata's two cases, the one against mythmonster was weaker, but it's the one which has gained popular support. Earthling seems more suspicious than either of you, and I'm voting for him, not you.

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Oh come on now, people, think. You have absolutely, absolutely nothing on Earthling. Nothing at all except that he talks too much.

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Originally Posted by Visorslash

What about my defence?

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I don't think it's a great case either but mythmonster has given a reasonable defense, and not complying with Renata trying to control others' night actions for her own goals (who is being vig-targeted anyway?) isn't a good reason for me to go after him. There's not too much of a case on you again as I said, but between you and mythmonster, but for the purposes of lurking/not reading the thread and lying (like you keep ignoring that I actually roleclaimed)/bandwagon voting you're not one of the more Innocent looking either. You'll notice I'm not really encouraging anyone to go after either of you, I'd much prefer a couple other candidates.

(bolding here just to help people notice as appears to be a useful convention)

That does remind me to point out to B_Ray that less than halfway through the day there's nothing a sure thing at all though, that's lazy. You do realize that just two people could basically outbet all the wagons so far today. In fact, that's a significant worry today, we're at the point where if people like Bow-wow-wow (or Renata again) are hiding scan info just to make gains for their teams they could show up late at the last minute to kill some other guy/factional enemy with a couple big bets.

Death is yonder, I am strongly of the belief now that Jolt, neutral half-killer or whatever he was, attacked me the second time, he was clearly a Jedi/Sith Lord and that clearly triggered his random rants about Jedi Power and whatnot. First one I have no more knowledge on who it was than anyone, and I don't really have an idea of who the green-eyed guy or winged-mace guy are supposed to even be as characters either; already commented on a couple others again. As I have no clue how much vigging or attempted vigging is going on that further throws guesses off though, except those two characters come up again and again so are probably the chaotic killers.

had to edit this in crosspost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL4iVQyp9L4

Quite honestly, even I think the case against Earthling is weak. I'd rather me die than him. Hell, if I could, I'd bet on myself just to have him live. Actually... can I do that?
Also, for what it's worth, my vig targets were Link (last night) and Greyblades (night before that, but I couldn't go through with it due to getting in orders too late).

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Originally Posted by Zack

...Didn't you just do the same thing a few pages ago?

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No, I didn't.
Now what in the hell is this about me getting vigged?

Ask Renata about it. She has reasons, though I'm suspecting it was just a false lead she gave to me to distract me.

I tend to agree. I'd really like to know what is going on, Renata claimed that Believer for instance gave her at least one scan result very early in the game and Believer's recent posts in thread seemed like subtle backscratching to distance himself from Renata. Believer, why so critical of Renata today if you've been feeding her scan results all along, presumably no awesome reason behind that cause you couldn't have revealed much in private, unless maybe you found out you were faction allies.

Also, fluffy, care to answer if it's true that Renata/Believer/someone they knew scanned you as Bizarro? You've never even addressed it though if it was a false scan claim from Renata you'd think someone would be all over that. If you're just an evil Bizarro guy it's already in the thread so not much use hiding it, just as with Skooma, and you might as well work together then. I will be serious that I as a Python am willing to forget about factional conflicts though, we need to focus on the chaotics. Except whatever network Renata thinks she has going on is probably hiding info and plans from the town without a lot of results or any reasons I know of, that shouldn't be going on just to benefit one or two factions at this point.

actually real quick, mythmonster, you claimed you were Psychotic Mafia, but who are the Psychotic's enemies for the rest of us who wouldn't have a clue? If you really don't want to share don't but it can't do anything but help you assuming you already made a true claim there, and could really help explain other people's actions/responses now or in the future, if they are just after factional infighting.

I will not betray the Psycho Mafia, no matter how insignificant the info.

Also a little experiment.
Bet: 50 on SkoomaAddict

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Originally Posted by Earthling

Also, fluffy, care to answer if it's true that Renata/Believer/someone they knew scanned you as Bizarro? You've never even addressed it though if it was a false scan claim from Renata you'd think someone would be all over that. If you're just an evil Bizarro guy it's already in the thread so not much use hiding it, just as with Skooma, and you might as well work together then. I will be serious that I as a Python am willing to forget about factional conflicts though, we need to focus on the chaotics. Except whatever network Renata thinks she has going on is probably hiding info and plans from the town without a lot of results or any reasons I know of, that shouldn't be going on just to benefit one or two factions at this point.

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As far as I know, I was never scanned.
But reveal I shall!
GAZE UPON MY EPICNESS.

https://i1110.photobucket.com/albums...g?t=1304741789

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)/bandwagon voting you're not one of the more Innocent looking either.

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I actually voted on suspects BEFORE the bandwagon started. So that's not right?

Myth, we should go full out on Renata instead for suspecting us. :P

[QUOTE=Death is yonder;2053308353]For what its worth, I do think that pursuing Earthling's case is just a gigantic distraction. Jolt was most likely killed to further frame him, particular since Jolt was one of his critics.

On the contrary, at best it eliminates a Mafioso, at the very least it eliminates a liar who killed a townie and is persistently confusing town.

In any case, its evidently working, people are wasting credits voting Earthling, and those who are voting myth (or for that matter any other alternative suspect) are forced into betting higher.

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Originally Posted by Death is yonder

This is turning into another mini MRD vs civplayah, but I'd wager that there's at least one chaotic on the earthling wagon trying to push it so that everyone's credits get wasted.

I mean like if you spend 20 credits as a scumbag and manage to force a mislynch, you've just wasted more than a hundred credits, the ratio is frightening.

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Then you have two choices: Either you keep at it, waste your credits, and Earthling turns out Evil, and you get narrow the suspect list down to a handful of people who had the highest bets on Earthling or betted high, late in the turn.
Or you can lower your credits and lynch Earthling. The benefits range from best possible to good.

There is still more than 24 hours IIRC

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Originally Posted by Death is yonder

These people need to explain truly why they are voting so high. Just because Earthling was wrong about MRD isn't going to cut it, people are wrong a lot in mafia and if Earthling truly was a Chaotic then going after MRD for multiple rounds and just thrusting himself into the spotlight was just plain silly.

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What? He counter-claimed MRD's true role on purpose. He wasn't just wrong. He pushed for MRD's lynch with any means available, even counter-claiming a true role, which as you may imagine, you simply do not do if you're townie.

Except that didn't happen. Much more fun even to listen to Seon than a dead, lying neutral. A full Day before MRD's (edit - near, Day Three that is) lynch I claimed (in private to someone who should have been sympathetic for factional rivalry reasons, by the way) that Skooma was the Rudolph role. Yes, I only knew of a faction scan that he was Bizarro so it was just a guess and a lie. This happened before MRD claimed anything or anyone that I know of knew anything about him, and after he claimed, was not part of anybody's reason for trying to lynch MRD and nobody said it was. You weren't paying attention or didn't read the thread.

I don't like either of these lynches to be honest. Earthling, at worst, is neutral/serial killer due to his contradictory statements and his view people should spend a lot of credits to lynch people. Since I've played a few games with him, I know he's always this talkative and, at times, this annoying. I doubt he's chaotic, but given his track record this game it's a nice thought that he is.

The mythmonster wagon I don't buy either, though I'd take this case over the one on Earthling. So I'm going to present another option, and a direction I feel is very much worth pursuing.

Given MRD's and Earthling's back and forth for seemingly the entirety of the game, I've felt the chaotics would have had a very, very easy time blending in. After all, it's exactly what I would have done - blend in with the noise and buy another day. With my limited time, I began going through the thread searching for people who made, more or less, seemingly worthless posts by either jumping on a bandwagon, saying something inconsequential, or something similar of the sort. And I came up with one name that I think is our best chance yet.

Autolycus.

One, he's made all of six posts this game, most of which involve bandwagoning of somesort. Numero Uno:

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Originally Posted by autolycus

I'd like to at least have an outside shot at keeping my credits, so I will Bet: 2 credits on Subotan.

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Subotan was leading at the time, sure, but it's been established that only chaotics or neutrals allow someone to either earn or keep their credits. It just seems out of place. You'd only keep your credits if he turned up either or, but you made a bid of two on the first day. Just odd.

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Originally Posted by autolycus

Vote:Desert Eagle to myself
Bet: 2 Creds on Renata For the moment, El Gigante is the best guide I've got.
Will vote items to others for reciprocity.
Also, for whatever it means, the clubs are getting mauled.

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Another tack on vote to Renata. Once again, a small bet when others are voting 5 and upwards. No reasoning here, and that's after others said to spread the votes out a bit. The very definition of a tack-on vote.

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Originally Posted by autolycus

I like this case on MRD
Bet: 10 credits on MRD

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*yawn* C'mon, really? At least try to add something.

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Originally Posted by autolycus

Renata can have the gag
I'd like the Rope
Beskar can have the shell

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Interesting item votes. More bandwagon tack on for the gag to Renata, a 'vote the bus driver item' to yourself, and a retaliatory item to Beskar, who from what I can tell didn't have any votes to his name at the time. Why the votes? What was the reasoning? And since the first day lynch of MRD didn't work out, and everyone still thought he was guilty, we have...

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Originally Posted by autolycus

Bet:20 credits on MRD
I'll put in an item vote later.

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For the record, you never did put in another item vote.

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Originally Posted by autolycus

Vote: Santa's Vodka, Tannooki Suit, Lucky Badge to Backward logic
Not sure yet who to bet on, will do that later.

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Thanks, appreciate it. Obvious votes are obvious. Can't choose a lynch suspect then, could you? Disappointing.

So, there you have it. I like it much better than any case against Earthling or mythmonster, so that's where my credits are going.

Bet: 50 credits on Autolycus.

And I've decided I want the vig items for myself, so...

Custom Beretta and Killer Rabbit to me (Backwards Logic).

(I have an insanely busy next two days coming up. If I don't get back to this or your PM's, it's why. Back-Back-Back 14+ hour days will do that to you...)