Anybody enjoying Game of Thrones? (HBO TV series)

there is no singular reason why robb was doomed.

there were a few

-he gave slight to the gods by breaking his vows > freys turned sides
-he got betrayed by theon and lost the north and more importantly his heirs
-he did not deal with the karstark/jaime/catelyn matter appropriately


all these things together, he was losing the war because his men were dwindling, he could not strike at tywin because Edmure tried to be a hero, so bolton added up 1+1 and decided it was time to turn cloaks. he wouldnt have if the North was winning. The freys are just crazy but I doubt he would have killed Robb if he didnt realise that the boy was lost.

Robb was doomed because he was not a main character to the long-term story arc. GRRM's trick was making us think he was, just like he did with Ned. The true main characters are immune to death until the final book. Namely:

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Tyrion
Jon (Does anyone seriously believe he's dead?)
Dany
Bran

yes... ofcourse, if you go meta like that sure. you studied literature for sure no? XD

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

yes... ofcourse, if you go meta like that sure. you studied literature for sure no? XD

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Nope, history. I just find it a bit odd to argue about what a fictitious character could have done differently to change their fate.

I've been reading the book series since they launched. Most fantasy series start with the orphan raised by a relative who teaches them some great tricks or they inherit a magic item ie Luke Skywalker raised by his uncle, Frodo is also adopted, as is Rand al'Thor and many more.

All GRRM has done has started at the pre-orphaning stage for some of the characters. Some are already orphans being raised by uncles. Some like the mother of dragons are more along those archetypes.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Jon Snow is in all likelihood Ned's sisters child. It does not make sense for a poor fisher woman to give gold to look after a noblemans bastard. So either he is a heir to the Dragons or the Deers.

My wife started reading the books after a friend of hers started raving about the TV series. Our new born daughter was named after one of the characters. I'll let you guess which one at your leisure.

Spoilers:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Jon Snow isn't dead, Azor Azhai and all that. Probably Rhaegar and Lyanna's child.

OK, best Red Wedding reaction video on the web (link, not embedded due to scene's bloody throat slashing. so umm, yeah, some violence/gore)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6AjgR7D3yg

Bravo! :applause:

Got linked this on facebook.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbEhByk4Icg

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

My wife started reading the books after a friend of hers started raving about the TV series. Our new born daughter was named after one of the characters. I'll let you guess which one at your leisure.

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Arya?

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Originally Posted by Tiaexz

True. Though I bet Jaime will finally be home. Probably the only thing majorly that would occur.

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Got it right :thumbsup:

So season finale....
Not big on action, but lot of big decisions to set the story for the next season. Tywin and Tyrion were awesome as usual.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For once I regret Tywin gets killed. I'll miss watching him stare people into submission

Next Arya and the Hound. Full of win.
And it all ends with Dany the rockstar :clown:

The Ramsay Bolton scene was hilarious. "You think I'm some sort of savage?" :laugh4: As was Tywin, sending Joffrey to bed without supper. And did anyone else notice the gasps from the ladies when Podrick went to summon Tyrion to the Small Council? His reputation precedes him!

So no big reveals, mainly just clean up and character positioning, but I think they had fun with it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I guess next season gets us Coldhands, Stoneheart, and Oberyn. The Littlefinger and Lysa love story should be amusing, we get Joffrey's wedding, the war at the Wall, and Dany at Meereen. I'm thinking they might need to go a little past A Storm of Swords for next season, there might not be enough good stuff left to cover 10 episodes.

Compared to The Walking Dead finale; Game of Thrones gets a Bajillion/10

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Originally Posted by johnhughthom

Arya?

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obviously Eddard.

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Originally Posted by johnhughthom

Arya?

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Correct.

I LOVE this show. One of the best shows on TV today in my opinion.


What do you guys think of Game of Thrones .vs LoTR however?

In terms of books vs books, tv show vs movies, or just general lore vs lore?

TV show .vs. movies and the lore .vs. lore.

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Originally Posted by drone

The Ramsay Bolton scene was hilarious. "You think I'm some sort of savage?" :laugh4: As was Tywin, sending Joffrey to bed without supper. And did anyone else notice the gasps from the ladies when Podrick went to summon Tyrion to the Small Council? His reputation precedes him!

So no big reveals, mainly just clean up and character positioning, but I think they had fun with it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I guess next season gets us Coldhands, Stoneheart, and Oberyn. The Littlefinger and Lysa love story should be amusing, we get Joffrey's wedding, the war at the Wall, and Dany at Meereen. I'm thinking they might need to go a little past A Storm of Swords for next season, there might not be enough good stuff left to cover 10 episodes.

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I think the only hands will we see will be Tywin.

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Correct.

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damn :S i had all my money on Neddard :S

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Originally Posted by FoxLeLay

TV show .vs. movies and the lore .vs. lore.

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in its scope i think LotR (if you include Silmarillion and the Hobbit) is unprecedented. But it is a pretty straight black and white story of good and evil, in that sense Got/SoIaF appeals to me more because alot of times you get new info that can completely change your view of a character. It is more grey. What I like about both is that in magic is pretty much relegated to the background and is of secondary importance (more so in GoT/SoIaF, but even in LotR, Gandalf the mighty wizard often fights with his sword). All in all, i'd say that LotR is the better/bigger Epic, while GoT/SoIaF is the better intrigue/thriller. Im a fan of both.

As for the movies/series, I'd rule more clearly in favor of the LotR movies, almost completely because of the awesome and huge battlescenes in 2 and 3. But for a series GoT is awesome!

GoT has no lore to speak of. It has some 'recent-history', but compared to LotR, the mythos is as good as non-existent and what is there is an unexplained, confusing wreck. At least up until now.
Hopefully with the winding up of the stories some of the mysteries will be cleared up.

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Originally Posted by rajpoot

GoT has no lore to speak of. It has some 'recent-history', but compared to LotR, the mythos is as good as non-existent and what is there is an unexplained, confusing wreck. At least up until now.
Hopefully with the winding up of the stories some of the mysteries will be cleared up.

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If you're talking about the show, absolutely true. If you're talking about the books, I vehemently disagree. The world of Ice and Fire has vastly more lore and depth to it than all of Tolkien's books combined.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

If you're talking about the show, absolutely true. If you're talking about the books, I vehemently disagree. The world of Ice and Fire has vastly more lore and depth to it than all of Tolkien's books combined.

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I dont know if I would say a lot more lore, but definitely comparable. And of course the TV show doesnt go into a lot of lore, they simply dont have time for that as they already have to fit in the current event stuff.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

If you're talking about the show, absolutely true. If you're talking about the books, I vehemently disagree. The world of Ice and Fire has vastly more lore and depth to it than all of Tolkien's books combined.

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OK, as far as I know GoT lore is limited to -
First men come and kill Children of the Forest who spent their time battling giants.
The Others come and kill both the First men and Children of the Forest.
Some unknown hero either from Asshai or Westros somehow manages to kill others. Variations of the legend involve the sword Lightbringer.
Andals come and subjugate first men.
Meanwhile on the other side of the world the Ghiscari Empire is doing something. Then something is happening in Valariya. Ghiscari and Valariya keep fighting. Somewhere in between the Faceless Men begin their work in the tunnels of Valariya.
Ghiscari empire falls. Doom come to Valariya. (What the 'Doom' is is never explained).
Aegon subjugates the Andals and unites the seven kingdoms.

Add to this a few odd tales pertaining to the various great houses about Brandon the Builder and whichever Lannister lost the Valariyan sword Brightroar et cetra and some vague prophesies about the Prince that was promised, Azor Azhai, the Old Gods and R'hllor and that's basically the extent of GoT lore.
Tolkien on the other hand has an entire alternate mythology in his books. Maybe when GRRM finishes the entire story and he explains everything about the Great Other and such similar mysteries he'll have something comparable, but until then everything is too much of a mess.

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Originally Posted by rajpoot

the Prince that was promised

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Ser Pounce, the Puss that was Promised.

Isn't Cersei's generally the puss that gets promised?

anyone noticed how arya killed the frey soldier? its how she killed the guard at harrenhal in the books :P

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Originally Posted by rajpoot

Add to this a few odd tales pertaining to the various great houses about Brandon the Builder and whichever Lannister lost the Valariyan sword Brightroar et cetra and some vague prophesies about the Prince that was promised, Azor Azhai, the Old Gods and R'hllor and that's basically the extent of GoT lore.
Tolkien on the other hand has an entire alternate mythology in his books. Maybe when GRRM finishes the entire story and he explains everything about the Great Other and such similar mysteries he'll have something comparable, but until then everything is too much of a mess.

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There is an unbelievable amount of depth to the lore and history of the Ice and Fire universe over the previous 500 years or so; pretty much everything since the Targaryian invasion of Westros. The amount of detail on the houses, their histories, and their actions is very very deep. I am including the Dunk & Egg novellas as part of this lore, btw. You are correct that all of the really old stuff is very vague, but I believe that is intentional. That stuff has actively been forgotten by most people living. With the exceptions of some northmen, people in Westros actively believe that all that stuff is myth and legend. Hell, when the books start magic itself is popularly thought to be a myth as well because it had been gone for so long. Tolkein created a world in which immense magical beings live for eons and never forget anything. Martin created a world populated almost exclusively by humans, and humans die quickly and forget easily. Just look at the library at Castle Black. That right there is a storehouse of massive amounts of knowledge about the history of Westros, but no one cares about it. That's why you don't hear much about the Andals or the First Men. People living in the Ice and Fire universe simply don't care, at least not yet. That's not a fault of the writer, that's intentional and it's one of the things that helps to build the world. If you want to compare the Ice and Fire lore to Middle Earth lore, pretend that all of your Middle Earth lore has to be learned from the Hobbits.

In any case, I far more enjoy Martin's very rich recent history than Tolkein's amorphous irrelevant legends. The history that Martin gives us is detailed, explains how the various characters in the world got to where they are now, why alliances exist, and why certain place names are significant. Having read the entire Ice and Fire series, you can look at a map of Westros and know something interesting about pretty much every little town and castle on the map. The same cannot be said for Middle Earth.

thats not really true either, if you read the hobbit and silmarrilion you can do pretty much the same for middle earth, but as you say it is a different approach chosen by each writer. martin has his lore become available through the eyes of the humans living in Westeros, while Tolkien made the lore and legends available as stories in themself which you can read about in the appendix or in other books.