That is why I started to suspect him, which is why he thought it was me in the QT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
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That is why I started to suspect him, which is why he thought it was me in the QT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
Does this mean we cannot eat Pepperoni on our pizzas?
Not that I care, I like pastrami way better.
Also, DE your lynching was not intentional on my part, I miscounted votes and did not expect you to change your vote. I changed my vote to stay unpredicatble. Your demise was actually the first nail in our coffin.
OMG I was right. I was right? OMG.
Er, that is all.
OMG.
Four. To Pepperoni the first night, to Sausage later on, then right back to Pepperoni, then to townie. I'll have a lot more to say tomorrow.Quote:
This was an insane game. How many times DID you get converted or de-converted, Renata?
Alright, I have a bit to say, since I had, of course, all insights into the Pepperoni Cult and a pretty deepl level of insight into the Sausage Cult.
This will not be a commentary in a traditional sense, more my take on a few aspects of the game but it might be a bit long-ish so bear with me, if you will.
First of all: Here's the real Pepperoni QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/n6tKnGK2g4m3d
Now as for my comments:
The Setup:
Well, this was a very difficult game for the cults I think. We never knew who we could trust and, as it turns out, we couldn't trust anybody. I think two competing Mafia factions will always be hard for the Mafia and very benefitial for the town and, in this game, this was aided even further by the fact that it didn't make much sense for a townie to "betray/backstab" the town and hope for recruitment but it made much sense for the recruits to backstab their recruiters, as is evidenced by i.e. Renata. IMO adding the town recruiter might have been a bit too much but, ATPG, don't understand this as negative criticizing, rather feedback or my opinion.
What's very interesting about the setup is that a lot of activity took place in various Quicktopics and Chats or PMs, even more so than in other games I think. The activity in the thread was at times just an outlet of what was done in private. An indicator for this is the very low post count of the game.
In the end I have to say it is a setup that can provide a lot of fun, I think. Inactivity was a bit of a problem at times, I think with a player base that was a bit more active the game might have been even more fun to play.
My "Schemes":
It all really just started out with us (MRD and me) deciding that we would recruit me as round 2 recruit to give me an "alibi" as a mere recruit. We decided on our first recruit, which was a wrong decision, but more on that will follow later. The first night ended and I got the PM that I was recruited by the Sausages. Interesting. Immediately I began to weave my plans and then we started to put them into action.
First I entered their cult as a usual recruit but upon round two we stuck to the plan of recruiting me to the Pepperoni. I then told the Sausages that I had been recruited (All that is in the original Sausage QT which was closed before GH was recruited) and wanted to be recruited back by them. They did recruit me back and I gave them access to our (all fake) QT.
I also tried to hide my identity as the Propagandist by changing my posting style. I did make these ellipses in the beginning but stopped quite soon. I faked american spelling for words like favor/favour, while usually I always use british spelling. Both MRD and me tried to mix up our posting times. I even made a few posts as "Boss". They had practically no real content and were only there to pretend he was online at times where MRD never was. I did things like calling GH "The General" and ATPG "Pizza" which I usually don't do. Overall I think this worked quite well, given that possibly Renata was the only one that I couldn't fool.
Later on, after I vote switched from Seon to Romanic and it was obvious that I "betrayed" them, I told Secura that I was an inconvertible townie that tried to play both cults against each other. I don't know how much she believed me at that point but before that I was trusted by the Sausage leaders and, believe it or not, it was a painful experience to backstab them, even though I didn't have a choice.
Quite a few times during these private discussions and the course of the game I almost felt "disgusted" by myself. I realized that I am a much better liar than I want to be. If I had been recruitable, it's very likely that I would have never betrayed those that first recruited me but since my allegiance could never be changed to begin with, I took my chances and did what I could to help the Pepperoni.
Figuring out the Sausages/other players:
Honestly, this part of the game was the most fun to me. Doing the detective work to dissect their QT and find out who was behind the masks of "Diamondeye" and "Cult Leader". Quite a bit of that process can be read in the Pepperoni QT. I had Secura pinned quite a while before she was confirmed by a little mistake she made, in creating their second QT with her own QT-username. Important hints were her posting times, her british spelling and some other things. It's all in our real QT. I had GH as a suspect for the leader for quite a while, actually until Secura told me they had recruited him N3. After that I had to search for others. MRD had mentioned that he suspected Romanic to be the leader and that Romanic wanted to get me lynched because they had discovered I was a traitor. It made me look out for Romanic and so I was pretty sure it was Romanic, also quite a while before Secura confirmed it to me. I don't think he actually wanted to get me lynched though. Romanic can probably confirm or deny this but I guess it was a pretty good distancing tactic for the day that my cover would be blown and the pepperoni would realize that I was a sausage after all.
Why we lost:
There's a bunch of reasons.
MRD apologized to me via PM yesterday, making it look like it was his fault and I heavily disagree. I think MRD made only one big mistake during the course of the game and that mistake wasn't game losing. He changed his vote in the round DE was lynched and that got DE into the tie where we lost him. I think DE was a legit recruit but he might have been derecruited anyway and, as I said, that's not what lost us the game.
Then there was the revealing PMs, where MRD sent out PMs to Renata and Seon, to get the to vote with us on the round we lynched Romanic. Probably there was also a PM to GH that round that revealed him. I have no idea how the content of the PMs was and how incriminating they were but the fact that they were sent out was rather my fault than MRDs. I convinced him to do this because I got nervous after Seon switched his vote and put himself in the lead. We probably should have sat it out. I don't know if Renata would have voted with us but since Seon didn't vote this round at all it would have probably been better to lose him (if he even was on our side at that point) than to expose MRD. I'm to blame.
There's one thing that stings me in this matter. I asked MRD is we could send them an anonymous PM, asking them to change their votes and maybe even convincing some sausage cultits to jump ship but MRD told me it was against the spirit of the game or against the rules and I agreed. I don't know who used the anonymous account device later in the game but it did disturb me a bit. Maybe someone could tell me if it's actually against Mafia rules to do that or if it can be done, for the future? :yes: That said, I have no hard feelings against anyone, it's just something I'd like to know.
I made a few mistakes in my cover. One of them was the ellipses and Renata called me out on it. I also made mistakes in strategizing, as I said, it would have probably been better to lose Seon that round and not even blow my cover that early. The Sausages would have probably killed classical and so on... I'm not going to spin this any further or I'll get upset with myself again ^^
There was also some bad luck involved. We lost DE on a tiebreaker. We recruited Renata who proved to be unreliable. Then we stole the one recruit from the sausages that wasn't really a recruit and now, in the end, it just figures that the switch back to classicall occured past the deadline. I can't remember everything but a lot can be read in our QT.
I do think that my mistakes in this game were much fewer than in my two other games as Mafia but in the end I'll just have to put this in my collection of "games I almost won".
Thanks everyone for playing and thanks for hosting ATPG! It was a fun game!
MVP: Renata - You were the one we couldn't fool. It seems you had your doubts in the end but your conviction was enough to push the town over the edge for the win. Very well played! :bow:
A few questions:
@Secura/Romanic: Why did you kill me? Did you actually figure me out as opposing cult leader and was it part of a strategy, thinking you might still win or was it basically retaliation?
@Seon: Why did you almost commit suicide the round we lynched Romanic?
@Romanic: Could we add a %losing list for the statistics? I'd like to make the top of at least something xD
Gah, I wanted to prolong MRD's suffering! Sorry to classical_hero, but I thought an alternate bandwagon might give the Pepperoni a slender hope of winning. :P
Well, Romanic gave me three options for the kill, claiming that you were all possible candidates for the Pepperoni leadership; yourself, Major Robert Dump and classical_hero. It was I that chose who died after that point, and for me there was only ever one real option... I guess to most it would look like revenge, but it's so much more than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastDays
You see, by that point I'd been having doubts about your claims for a considerable amount of time; the way that we wasted a turn recruiting you back for what amounted to minimal information, your lack of posting in the opposing QuickTopic and how you posted/the Propagandist posted, the fact that there is no mention of me in your QuickTopic beyond brief consideration as a recruitment, your evasive nature during private conversations and your eventual switch to Romanic even when it was in better interests for you to maintain your little masquerade. You revealed your hand too early.
Regarding the "might still win", I knew from the start that we wouldn't; not only was it my first game as a cultist and the odds stacked against the cults, but the very nature of the game was deception (moreso than any other game I've played) and unfortunately I'm not all that good at it. I reiterated to Pizza several times that we would lose, so far as predicting myself as the first kill... but I didn't give up, I merely followed Romanic's lead for much of the game (hence why I was so ready to trust you, that was at Romanic's suggestion), and the only times I struck out on my own ended in disaster.
I think that a town victory was the best outcome, albeit the most boring due to the ease of it compared to winning as cult; I stand by what I said about the Pepperoni Leader's behaviour, there's no need for language like that, staged or otherwise.
As I stated, I realize I made quite a few mistakes in that aspect. I partially blame my uneasiness with lying in that way, especially in private conversations. I hope no one hates me for it and I don't think roles like this are a perfect match for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
I can't really comment on that. It was MRDs call. In the beginning I actually didn't think it was a good idea at all but then I realized that this infight with himself was probably what pushed him down below classical on your top suspect list. I agree though that the way of the argument was probably a bit over the top.Quote:
I think that a town victory was the best outcome, albeit the most boring due to the ease of it compared to winning as cult; I stand by what I said about the Pepperoni Leader's behaviour, there's no need for language like that, staged or otherwise.
EDIT: I also wanted to state that my post about "retaliation" was merely a question because I wanted to know. It's fair enough I guess :yes:
You said earlier I was undeserving of victory and you would explain it later, and then in your last post you said the language was uncalled for. Was that why? Seriously? Over a few F bombs?
I think that you played rather well, given the circumstances... were it not for your sudden u-turn on Romanic, our early fears might never have resurfaced and you could have passed by without being our kill target. In that case, I'd have gone for MRD, as by that point he was going to be a thorn in the side regardless of his alignment.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastDays
Actually, the reason why I believe that you were undeserving of victory is because the host was compliant in your deception; by intervening in the leader/Not MRD argument, which was apparantly staged entirely by you, Pizza made it look as though two elements of your cult were at loggerheads when that wasn't the case at all. Your little act gained alot of credibility as a result of his call for better behaviour and the threat of stopping the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
But yes, despite the fact it was all staged, the F-bombs were uncalled for, as were the personal attacks; I like to think that you wouldn't talk to real mafia/cult partners in that way, though. :3
Who made the dummy account?
I just want to come to ATPGs defense here. I didn't really realize it but obviously ATPG thought that me and MRD were fighting in the QT. I didn't realize that until he asked me via MSN if we were doing alright and why we were fighting. I then explained to him but that was, obviously, after his posts in our QT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
There's really no need to defend Pizza, I have full faith in him and know that he would never have made those comments in your QT if he was aware of what was really going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastDays
It doesn't change the fact that his posts about the matter added a sense of validity to proceedings, though; prior to that, Romanic had told me that he felt the argument had been staged.
ATPG wasn't complicit and he was aware that TLD and I were posting as one another on occasion and he had no way of knowing who was who. Furthermore, the argument was not mentioned in the other QT. I was very surprised when he intervened, and in no way have any control over what the host does.
As far as being a jerk to others in the QT, it was my way of setting the stage for MRD and TLD "the recruits" to eventually mutiny and to invoke sympathy from infiltrators into the QT. As I already stated, there was nothing -- absolutely nothing -- to illicit a recruit to stay loyal and I have no reason to believe that being Mr. Nice Boss would have kept anyone from betraying the cult. Nonetheless, I still wasn't going to kill my own recruits.
As far as the F bombs and language in general goes, I am sorry if it offends you, but it was a private QT. I knew it would be compromised, therefore my colorful language was a subtle middle finger for all prying eyes. Anyone special visitors who were offended could just not visit, but you all were just to interested in the trainwreck that you had to keep coming back.
**Also, the edit in the self-argument towards the end was me posting as the wrong person. apparently 2 ppl were subscribers who got emails, and I am curious who it was, as I was unable to edit the content/username of the message, only delete it. So I made the subsequent email as "whiny boss" to cover for the fact that the deleted one was "boss" so I could at least claim a typo if someone produced that email.
I'd like to add some postgame commentaries but my dad just brought us pizza. True story.
He was though, even though he didn't realise it! His posts massively changed our perspective, because prior to that Romanic believed that the entire debacle was staged. This snippet from our private conversations shows Romanic stating that the whole thing had to be legit because of Pizza's intervention:Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
I think, in the end, we stuck with the belief that it was legit, but this was probably the only time I was right about anything over the course of the game; more often than not, I opposed Romanic's ideas, particularly when he wanted TLD lynched as soon as he learned my identity via the QT mistake, since I felt Roman was contradicting something he'd earlier stated to me, when he suggested I should trust TLD and keep talking to him privately. Really, if I had deferred to the better player alot more, things may have gone alot differently than they did. :3Quote:
Originally Posted by Romanic & Secura, via MSN
Oh, and the language in the QuickTopic didn't particularly offend me, I just... don't see the point, really.
I agree that it was an unfortunate turn of events in that ATPG confirmed a ruse without knowing. There was nothing to be done about it though. Maybe MRD shoul have notified the host of what he was about to do but that's all there could have been done.
As I stated above I knew your identity quite a bit before that QT mistake. That was an unfortunate event too though. When I said we (Pepperoni) were struck by bad luck at times I was actually not implying that you (Sausage) were lucky, quite the opposite. I guess in the cult vs. cult setting we were more favoured by luck but in the overall course of events I'd say the town was fortuna's favourite this game :wink:
Back. Mine had PEPPERONI on it. And enough Garlic to kill off a thousand rats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondeye
Also, this is my 2000th post, woohoo :beam:
Because I typed in proper English, right? I'll pretend to be American more often. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by TheLastDays
Congratulations. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamondeye
I wear it with pride.Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
Ironically I would have been much more likely to work with you if not for that ruse in which you made my name public -- as I mentioned in my Sausage QT one time I think, it made it all but impossible for me to work with you, because I had no safe way of telling you when I had been recruited to the other side.
I did try with Romanic and Secura with their setup, but they woudln't give me what I wanted.
I'm sorry, but I don't have a clue what you mean; what did you want from us, exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Renata
I'm guessing it must have been something that Romanic was unwilling to budge on, whatever it was. :S
Can someone link the Sausage QT?
This is the original QuickTopic, though it's mostly me either getting things wrong or attempting to mislead recruits, with TheLastDays attempting to mislead me in turn. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by classical_hero
The second QuickTopic is here, though it's not as interesting as Romanic and I had taken all discussions onto MSN by that point and it became completely defunct once TLD's deception became apparant.
Congrats, DE! :bow:
Yep, that was part of it. Other parts were your post times that suggested Europe and your mentioning of Seon announcing his inactivity in the Lassara OOC thread. I figured that not many non-players would read that OOC thread. The rest was intuition until you opened that QT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
Also, where's the Sausage QT with Renata? :P
I'm afraid I don't have it saved to My Topics. :3Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastDays
I decided against showing the "worse of" lists because not everyone likes to appear in these lists and I don't want to discourage anyone from playing here. These stats are meant to be fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastDays
You wouldn't appear anyway, not enough games yet (you need 10).
Renata wanted information. Unclear if she would have been satisfied until we revealed our identities to her. Anyway, in a game like this, you cannot satisfy a recruitable player this way. Renata was being difficult because she's like that. You won't get a candy until you gave her one first. :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Secura
ATPG - I'll be waiting for you to list the winners before entering this game in the database. I'm not sure who was what in the end, and if the remaining Pepperonis are considered to have reverted back to Town, since the last lynch ended the game.
1) Amazingly, ONLY DIAMONDEYE died while actually cult.... everyone else was de-converted or not converted before their deaths, other than the cult leaders!
That's a sad point for Diamondeye, as technically that makes him the only townie to lose the game; but cults are cults.
2) I had no clue the fight was staged between Dump and himself. The fact that he fooled me about it makes me kinda glad he's dead. :laugh4:
No trick game host. Bad mojo.
Yeah but at least it was funny. I accused myself of having white trash kids. Comic gold.
Oh, entertaining and very amusing, indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump
You're a strange one, Major Dump. You're the king of kooky thoughts.
*breaks into a Grinch-like song*