Hmm...donuts...:yes:
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Hmm...donuts...:yes:
Why you arent voting?Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraWar
Who is suspechous for you?
Say something, or I will be forced to think you are hiding something
Not playingQuote:
Originally Posted by Caius Flaminius
LOL, he is playingQuote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
Ok, Pannonian first suggests a complex mafia-hunting system, but says he won't be participating intensely. Well, how can he go wrong with that suggestion? He gains trust and risks nothing.
However, he says that there are four mafia, as if all the players knew this to be a fact. Let's face it, this slip up is only reason you have been halfway forthcoming. But that's the problem... halfway forthcoming. You claim that pevergreen's PM confirmed your suspicions... honestly, what good is that to us? If I trust you in the first place I'd believe you... if I suspect you then you will still be suspicious to me. Again, this is a case of apparent guaranteed gain vs. no risked loss.
Add to this that if you ARE the detective, you are revealing your role after presumably ONE investigation... you must admit this is a deviant behavior. Also add in that you gave faulty info when you claimed that noone had bought anything from the shop. Again, your explanation was basically to say that you have a credible source but that, after you have made this assertion, it turns out that the info was just wrong. Something is not right with this explanation... yet you've made it appear not to be a detractor to yourself.
I'm not willing to give you so much power without a decent explanation. So,
Vote: Pannonian
I'm not sure if I'm ready to lynch you, but you need quite a bit more pressure put on at the moment.
TheStranger 3 (Blackaxe, Ichi, TS)
Pannonian 4 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust)
Warluster 1 (Stig)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Well, in that case I invite those who trust me, including those to whom I've given the information I have, to switch their votes to me and end this farce. I've given my explanations, offered concrete statements against which information in the public thread could be measured against, and offered numerous methods of corroborating my statements, been as open as I could without prejudicing my aim of flushing out falsehoods. But that's not enough. So, to move the game on, throw me off the cliff please.
Unvote: The Stranger
Vote: Pannonian
TheStranger 2 (Blackaxe, Ichi)
Pannonian 5 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust, Pannonian)
Omanes 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Well its time to apply some pressure on the those claiming to have information but only provide limited to no information so that the town can begin to narrow down the possible mafia players.
To apply that pressure I will have to change my vote to see if something breaks so that we can either identify an important townie to center upon, with protection groups or to stir the conservation some more so that we all can get a better clue toward whom to steer our efforts on. I am not really comfortable with the conservation so far, its very vague and full of possiblities but no actuall clues.
And then there is Ichigo distractions which lead me to want to lynch him, just to have it stop. But to stir the conservation farther.
unvote; Vote: Pannonian
I want clear information in order to develope possible mafia suspects, which at this time is soley lacking.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
However I suspect that many who voted for Pannonian should be added to possible suspects because of the nature of the game. Especially if he actually begins to provide the group with hard information versus bits and pieces.
The question that everyone must ask, which townie can lead the group to victory over the scum, so far I see no one stepping up to take a role, myself included. Until the group decided to mafia hunt - its going to be a crap shoot.
The problem Pannonian is that you constantly cloud your arguement behind such a stance. Provide me actual information not this type of arguement as a defense. Its a problematic defense because it leaves a cast of suspecion upon yourself because you are not actually answering any thing directly as far as I can see. Hinting toward others having information but not sharing it with the group leaves it open for mafia players to counter your postion very nicely. Which is exactly what is happening right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
If you want hard information, here's some.
Pevergreen uses white crane style.
Twilightblade uses praying mantis style.
CountArach uses praying mantis style.
HughTower uses praying mantis style.
IIRC this information is not publicly available, but the above can confirm or deny as they wish.
I've given statements which can be concretely corroborated or refuted (the scientific method), but people still accuse me of things which are demonstrably refutable from the public thread. If logic doesn't serve, then I hope Kommodus will save you again.
Right, now we're talking
Now remove that desperate "I want to save my sorry ass by voting for myself"-vote and you've got your first unvote.
What you said made sense Pannonian and a living 100 % sure innocent is needed in this game, to coordinate actions in private, since the dead cannot pm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
But voting for yourself is, well, it looks scummy.
Here you talked about organising a townies network. A very good proposition, a very useful tool. But also a very dangerous one if infiltrated by the mafia... If one of the 5 "board" members is mafia, the town has a problem. You didn't say you wanted to be the organiser or member of "the board", you named other players for that. Franky, I would have trusted you more if you would have proposed yourself.
Mentioning the fact that there are 4 mafiosi was a non-intended mistake I guess.
Were you re-reading or plannig to edit your post when BZK posted this, only five minutes after your post?
You probably didn't expect somebody to react this fast, did you? Twelve minutes after BZK, you come up with this:
What a weird role this is. But you seem to imply others have this role as well. Omanes said he knows someone who has the same role.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
Why don't you tell us your role name and let Omanes' contact confirm this by PM'ing him and maybe three or four other players who can vouch in the thread that the name of the role you give is indeed correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki
So: Pannonian : you post the role name; Omanes' contact pm's several people to confirm this and if at least 4 players post in the thread that you are telling the truth, the town can believe you and the networking can start.
If not, you get lynched.
Interesting. Can they confirm this is true?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
Again an angry defense does not bode well in figuring out what you know. You have also claimed that you know information that was provided by others to you, but that information is cloudy because you want that individual to actually state the information in game. I learned a valuable lesson in Capo - and that is to distrust such a tactic because it does not focus the group, but distracts the group from what actually is going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
Knowing the fighting styles would normally equate to information that should not be readily available to a mafia player in my opinion. But I still have not seen an adequate response from you concerning this statement.
For examble who is this reference to.
Then I wonder why this little defense state from Omanes which adds him to the same list that I include you in. People who are withholding critical information from the town.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian from post#407
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=390
The key to a town victory is sharing of information, and with the ability to protect each other like this game allows - to protect each other. that requires someone taking a leader role and organizing the townies. I see lots of talk of such a stance by several to include myself - but no real effort to do so.
You made the one of the initial suggestions for just this but you also basically refused to do so. So that leaves you having to share more information to the group so that a leader can step forward and organize the townies.
Unvote: Vote: Omanes still awaiting an adequate detailed explanation of information from him also.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I would gladly volunteer, but it is not allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
The GM is harsh, very harsh.
The dead are not allowed to send nor to receive game related pm's...
So don't even bother to send pm's to me. It might get you WoG'ed...
Well, given from what I have read over these fast posts, I do not think that Pannonian is guilty simply because I don't think mafia would risk being wrong through the fighting style and also, a mafia wouldn't be as quick to put up a vigourous defence. I will instead Vote: Xehh because he is continuing to lurk and has only made one post for no lynch after joining.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Btw, I am taking AP exams this coming week and the next so I will probably not be very active for around one and a half week since I have to cram for the tests.
I know there are 4 mafia in the game - it was mentioned in my role PM. That was why I suggested setting up a board of 5 - so that even if all the mafia get on the board, there would still be an extra who could confirm the protection groups were set up appropriately. The system I suggested was meant to circumvent the possibility (probability?) of mafia getting onto the board, by ensuring they couldn't seal the process off entirely, by ensuring that someone would be able to blag if they tried to falsify the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Erm, what am I supposed to answer in response to that? I gave the entire explanation of my train of thought - I mixed up what's in the public thread and what's in my PM. Once I realised this was so, I came clean and revealed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
I'm not going to reveal my role name or the extent or limits of my role, as that will allow the mafia to make use of the alibi (which I've already tested against others). I've already prepared for my lynching by giving up all the information I already have to others who might make use of it afterwards. So get voting and get it over with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
What if 1 of the 5 board members is mafia? And after the networking is done and all the orders are given, one or two board members die, thus making the system collapse, because dead cannot pm? Meanwhile the mafia board member has alot of useful information...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
No?
I'm just trying to say that the town should be very carefull with who to trust.
Alibi? What do you mean? Can you explain to me what you mean by "alibi"? I don't understand what you are trying to say :sorry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
And what's wrong with giving the role name? It's clear you are able to do some sort of investigation to figure out the fighting styles of other players. Another possibility is that you already tried to make some sort of network for training during the night and that those players mentioned by you told you there fighting style.
Bah, sorry Pannonian, you shouldn't be upset by this inquistion, you have asked for it by making the "there are 4 mafiosi" remark. You might as well reveal everything. If you are telling the truth, you'll receive protection during the night and the role can continue to serve the town through the game. It sounds like a very useful and important role, so if you are telling the truth, we cannot afford to lynch you.
!!!:jawdrop:!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
When did you get that infomation pannonian?
I can say that is correct for me and Twilightblade.
And i did train him last night. His pitiful score...Mine isnt much better :laugh4:
Edit: Just as a side note, i deleted my role pm to make room for Battle Royale.
Here were the mechanics of what I proposed. Someone, whoever doesn't mind doing the work, randomly sorts the names of the living and sends the list to the board of 5, plus the organiser. People in the public thread then post numbers in that range, which correspond to the individuals in the night action. The organiser gets the names together, sends out PMs to the relevant individuals about what they should do. That's a powerful role prone to abuse. However, there's a board of 5 who were also sent the list of names, and they're able to check the orders that were sent out against the orders that should have been sent, by matching their name lists and the numbers called out in the thread. Any of them can point to discrepancies, if there are any, and publicise them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
Claimed roles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
I'm as paranoid as the best of them - see my treatment of Hughtower in M6. If I give precise information about my role, including rolename, extent, and limits, the mafia can make their own counter-claim. I was approached by people who claimed townie roles. I didn't believe them, and pressed them for more details. However, they satisfied me that their claims were genuine, when they gave information of a kind that would be difficult to falsify. I'm not prepared to give the mafia any chance to make similar, but false, claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres
I've already given my defence, and all the information I'm prepared to publicly reveal. That information includes stuff which can be specifically refuted. If any of the 4 named martial artists say I'm wrong, you've caught me out on a falsehood, and you can lynch me for that. Or you can do as you're going to, and lynch me anyway. You can ask me for more explanations if you wish, but don't ask for more details about my role, I'm not going to give them.
Vote: Pannonian There seems to be alot against him and he doesn't have that much of a defence, so I change my vote.
I see no reason to act serious. And even if I did no one would pay attention to anything I'm saying.Quote:
And then there is Ichigo distractions which lead me to want to lynch him, just to have it stop. But to stir the conservation farther.
Well, pevergreen confirmed your statement. Apparently, he also knew about TB's fighting style, which means two of the four posted results are correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pannonian
You said there are 4 mafiosi, so both CA and HT should confirm as well to be 100 % sure, but I think we can give you the benefit of the doubt for now.
Would you be so kind to unvote yourself my friend?
While we are waiting for HughTower, TwilightBlade and CA to confirm all this(but me, personnally don't think that is strictly necessary, but for the sake of those suffering from paranoia, they definitely should), we can focus on other suspects now.
I do believe it's too late. 8 to lynch.
Eh, this is what I meant with lazy townies popping up and voting without having read everything. Didn't you see Pannonian revealed information which is not public. Pevergreen confirmed this information and made it clear he never told Pannonian his nor TwilightBlade's fighting style, so Pannonian's claim is probably genuine...Quote:
Originally Posted by Xehh II
If that's your current attitude towards .Org mafia games, why did you bother to sign up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
We didn't listen to you in CN II, true. Frustrating? Hell yes. I can tell from experience: Midgard Saga, remember? Andres is scummy, he is guilty, lynch him, don't listen to him, he is guilty... blah, blah, blah... I got over it. So please, Ichigo, forget the past and enjoy the game.
If the last tally was correct, Pannonian only has 6 votes now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
Pannonian, please unvote yourself.
You need to explain this Ichigo. Why are you attempting to claim a vote of eight for lynching Pannonian when the current vote tally is six? You have committed a very scummy tactic that should get you lynched in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo
Unvote; Vote Ichigo
TheStranger 2 (Blackaxe, Ichi)
Pannonian 6 (Roadkill, Orb, Stig, Faust, Pannonian, Xehh)
Ichigo 1 (Redleg)
Redleg 1 (ByzKnight)
BlackAxe 3 (Kommo, Sapi, CF)
Xehh 1 (Xdeahfire)
Unvote: Pannoina
Need to rethink who to vote.
Xehh II is clearly acting very suspicious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xehh II
1. He has been lurking for the whole game except when to vote.
2. He bandwagoned on Pannonian even though pevergreen just confirmed that some of what he was saying was correct.
3. He did not try to say anything about me just randomly voting him for lurking.
I miss counted. Geez freak out.:end:Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Tsk Tsk an inadequate response. Attempting to counter by saying I over-reacted by asking a simple question and pointing out your error. It seems you are indeed scummy in this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichigo