If you don't, it'll still look like you were making it up even if Beskar actually is mafia.
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Beskar has already claimed to have no killing ability. So if you can show that you did steal one, that's all you need. "Waiting" for him to list his abilities is absurd.
The only non-killer in the writeups (other than the protector) is the person who roleblocked Grayblades. /is helpful
I think I can almost mark you off as innocent now, Rebel Jeb. :laugh4:
Well, there's still a fair while to go today, and I was planning on waiting until later before telling what I know. I've given up hope of survival (and, thus, victory), so ATPG might as well kill me tonight. My proven innocence will at least show up Beskar for the liar he is.
But, since everyone seems so keen for me to reveal it right away...
On night two I used my Metamorph ability on Beskar, and gained the Plasma Cannon ability, which kills with a Fire-Based attack.
Of course, now that I've said this, the obvious response is that I had this ability in the first place, or that I learned it from someone else. So I don't see how it changes anything, other than to make Beskar's life a little bit easier.
I hate this whole issue.
Ditto.
I should add, for when I'm dead and proved innocent, that I have told the truth throughout, while Beskar has lied time and again. (I'll make a list later on, if I can be bothered).
Why? I'm quite enjoying it. Especially if it turns out I was right about Beskar and AtPG sittin' in a tree, etc. (Sorry, Winston, you being mafia would not be nearly as satisfying. I only had one little ping on you. Pity we never got to chat; if we had I'm sure there would have been more.)
Fun though it may be, its starting to drag on a bit.
pizza, aren't there many other responses mafia can try when you threaten to kill them? Like just claiming their role and trying to seem innocent? Why would going all out in an attack on beskar be a natural response?
Probably the only way beskar will be lynched is by a winston town flip though.
You see how I've ended up here, then. From the moment I started seriously suspecting Beskar, I couldn't give way to his two-man shakedown with pizza. I gave him every chance to stop this from happening - to the point of waiting nearly six hours with the IM window open. I knew that going public would mean my death (one way or another), but just bending over while Beskar and pizza move from player to player pulling the same stunt was not something I could stomach.
I am not sure, Sasaki. But if one was trying to avoid being killed OR being scanned, one might try to push the focus off of them and onto Beskar.
Why Winston waited this long to answer a simple question baffles me; the only thing I can see is that he's attempting to wait out the suspicion storm, and then defend himself, so we will change our minds and not kill him tonight.
As for can he describe it, we've already discussed describing other various abilities, such as the investigation abilities. There's also nothing in the rules saying describing it is illegal.
This is the only rule which could apply here. But he's not quoting, he's paraphrasing.Quote:
The rules are fairly simple; standard affair for mafia games.
-During the day, you vote for someone to be lynched, using the format Vote: Chaotix. If you want to change your vote, use Unvote: Chaotix first or else your original vote will be the one counted.
-You may NOT edit your vote out of a post. You may edit a post with a vote in it so long as the edit does not affect the vote.
-You may Vote: Abstain to show you are present but wish to refrain from voting.
-Vote: No Lynch is NOT allowed.
-Dead players can participate, but may NOT vote or reveal previous night actions or sensitive information they knew before their death.
-Private communications are allowed.
-Quicktopics, chatrooms, etc. are NOT allowed unless given express permission by the host.
-Dead players cannot communicate privately unless given express permission by the host.
-You may quote PMs from other players, as they can be forged. You may not post screenshots, chatlogs, etc.
-You may NOT quote PMs from the host or your role PM, unless given express permission by the host.
-You must PM all night actions to the host personally.
-If you have multiple defenses, you must choose one and PM that to the host; otherwise your defense will be chosen randomly.
-Clarifications to the rules will be posted by the host if perceived to be unclear. If you are unsure or think I might have missed something, please don’t be afraid to ask questions!
Also, for those that gain several defenses, note the second bolded line. Would be a wise idea not to forget this important point.
hmm, you know day 1 a few people were convinced that beskar was mafia (myself included). Then they tried to kill him and tincow went after him. But actually the didn't try and kill him...pizza did. Who is now buddy buddy. And tincow would try and get the opposing mafia lynched.
...
Man this thing just kills me.
@ Sasaki --
Me too. :) And I have this kind of grudging admiration for Winston's level of stubbornness. It's rather beautiful.
He stole my Force Corruption ability and he's going to make himself a little cabal of evilJediSithGF townies.
If you tell me who you are in private, and agree to be inactive tonight, I will scan you rather than kill you.
Otherwise this principled stand against cooperating with a serial killer sounds a whole lot like rubbish. People come up with some awfully bizarre and one-game-only principles when they're guilty.
And.... there we go. At last, Beskar is finally undone by his impatience in revealing me after N1. If he had just waited a single night to report his mafia partner's result, he could have at least claimed the 'detective' had scanned him. But he didn't, and his relationship with the 'detective' made no sense. And he got scanned by a townie for it. And now he's dead.
Like I said, mafia fratricide FTW!
I think town would be likely to reveal you. Why would mafia destroy you if he can influence you and isn't threatened by you?Quote:
Secondly, when I revealed to Beskar, he didn't reveal me immediately to the town, as most ordinary townies or mafia would. If he were a Samus mafia he'd have an interest in destroying me, especially since I told him outright that was my mission.
Not all of the mafia have to attack.Quote:
There are writeup clues which prove that he was elsewhere when the Samus mafia and Dark Samus mafia were attacking.
The mafia have abilities.Quote:
His claim to me, which only happened under pressure, reveals that he has some abilities and they are verifiable. I can have him scanned to make certain, but I also see them in the writeup, so I don't need to.
I do have a concern that mesomorph sounds like a scum ability. I suppose it is possible that we are sitting on two scum. But mostly I'm leaning to saying pizza should scan someone or kill frozen, and then we should lynch beskar.
Blah, Pizza, you know better than that. "Be inactive or else" threats only work when your target is actually threatened by it. You got lucky with me because I actually could NOT both be inactive and have Dark Samus out killing. If you're wrong about Winston, it is the trivialist of trivialities for Samus to simply refrain from killing for one night and extend the WIFOM about all of you for another day.
If you're that suspicious of him, just kill him and live with the consequences.
Edit: well, all righty, that works.
That may be good too. I'm feeling happier and happier with "they're both scum".
You claim that death is the end of the road for you, but you're not willing to describe an icon, or be inactive for a single night, to save the game for you.
Well mister Winston, I do believe one of two things is likely here.
1. You are indeed mafia, and you absolutely cannot be caught inactive tonight.
2. Your claim is at least partly true, and I take you at your word. That means you're a recruitable person with a steal ability and a kill ability.
You've given me no reason to leave you alive. No one should shed a tear for you, not one more than they would shed for me.
Read you or not, your story if true, is still enough to make you burn.
Oh he never did describe the icon.
Ugh, I am falling behind. From my jist of things, Winston is likely not team Dark Samus, though the cases on him being other things vary in other degree. This would have all worked out better if I had successfully killed you on the first night... :wall:
I don't get the case on Frozen on Ice at all, can someone make it in clear terms here?
Kill Beskar no matter what. Because even though there is an entire line of argument that he is nothing more than a mouthpiece, he is a major distraction. One of the 'good' townie deaths if he dies.
I'm reading that Winston "stole" a power from Beskar. Is this right, or is it rather a copy?
In others words, according to you Winston, will Beskar still have the Plasma Cannon ability?
Keep in mind, I am just looking for excuses not to kill this guy, because even if he IS a recruitable with steal/kill, it's possible for him to prove outright that he's not Samus. And it would even be possible to prove he's not the one doing the killing at night. All I want is a way to prove he's not Samus/corrupted pikachu/etc. Even if he is scum or potential scum, he's still not as high a priority target as the most powerful mafioso in the game remaining, or actively killing mafiosi, who are the ones who started out as mafia.
It doesn't matter if he's recruitable if the actual mafia are wiped out; he will be less powerful than the starting mafia and he's already exposed. They're a priority. He's less of a threat than the unknown.
So you scan him, and winston stays inactive? Sounds good. Even if the mafia frame him they have to skip a kill.
I could have just killed you without asking questions.
As it stands, you're admitting that you're recruitable, have the power to copy abilities, and have a killing power, and that's if I take you at face value. Even if I decide not to kill you, this stuff is better off being known by the town, because that puts a huge dent in your ability to harm them if you do get recruited.
You're going to need to die eventually, like me; probably after Samus dies, and pikachu dies. But I'd be willing to put off such a death if you'd be willing to... be inactive.
Maybe it's just me but if I stole a Plasma Cannon from Beskar, I would have kept my mouth shut about it and gone PEW PEW PEW on Pizza or Beskar tonight. :laugh4:
The whole point of this is that a truly innocent townie has recourse, and, even if I'm dead wrong about everything, we either learn something, or there's one less death.
In fact, there's one less death that's very important to Winston; his own. Which he claims is his top priority. Why wouldn't he be willing to agree? Principles?
People are willing to die for their principles, and I'm willing to kill an uncooperative recruitable person with steal and kill powers. No matter what happens, everything I've done has been a good move this round.
Winston hasn't agreed to go inactive.
Except you would have had to explain a dead townie to the mob tomorrow.
And the penny begins to drop...
Nah. The only reason for me to live is so I can use my ability to learn something about someone else tonight (I already have a target).
I don't know of any ability called Plasma cannon. :shrug:
Cool. So when I explain the dead townie tomorrow, I'll point out that you weren't willing to clear yourself of being Samus.
Which, by the way, you sound an awful lot like; see the ability you describe is EXACTLY what the description for "fire strike" is. I have "fire strike"
I also know of someone else who has "fire strike" and it matches exactly.
But for you, it's called "Plasma cannon". Why is that?
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Beam
The icon you're talking about appears in this article.
Now, if you're telling the truth in all this, and your character doesn't match a Samus-like character such as a Metroid bounty hunter-type, then there is no reason for the name change.
That would also mean that Beskar is likely Samus. I'm willing to find out one way or the other.
You know someone else who has a killing ability? :sweatdrop:
And I suppose you will tell us this person is Town.
Ack, how would winston be able to describe the icon but get the name wrong?
Yeah, that matches with you saying it's an ability that hasn't been used so far.
Given the context of the game and the wide array of characters we've seen, I've come to the conclusion that Winston is telling the truth about his Metamorph ability and that he is probably Kirby or Ditto.
Neither of those characters fit the description of Sasaki's killer on Night Two, who was of similar height to Rundas and able to look at him with "beautiful red eyes" and kiss him passionately before vapourising him with fire-based attacks.
Sure, there's cover roles, but have we seen a cover role yet that doesn't correlate with the character that it's masking? Just look at Ridley's cover, another draconic character, or Cloud's, which was essentially a brown-haired mirror image. Who would be a cover for Kirby/Ditto?
Winston claimed to have stolen the Plasma Cannon ability on the same night Sasaki died, meaning that he is affirming that he was actively doing something else rather than being the murderer; this claim doesn't clear him in the eyes of the living town, but should it really be acted upon so impulsively by the vigs/serial killers?
I believe you should refrain from killing Winston for now; scan him first, as his ability could be extremely useful if he is town and it's not something that we want to lose so easily.
Should you learn nothing constructive, consider killing him then; just give him a little time.
On any occasion where you hedge your bets like so, I will pop up and remind you about this statement... :P
JGHBKL KHFYGFSHAKSFYJHAVD UDIASI (a la Sasaki!)
EXCUSE ME! Did the vilainous dragon say he knew someone else with the Fire Strike ability? I want to hear more about this!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053241436
Night one, shadowy figure with Red eyes (bolded) attacks and kills Pit AKA Reenk Roink.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053242319
Night two, figure with delicate arms and Red eyes (bolded) attacks and kills Rundas, AKA Sasaki Kojiro.
Beskar has claimed credit for both attacks, and although the attacks are different, he also claims he has both ice and fire strike.
Notice the description of the attacker matches in both cases, and that the figure is described as delicate and feminine, with red eyes.
There is no plasma "cannon" being used here. But it is believable that someone with "fire strike" who is who Beskar claims to be would attack with "fireballs" as I have also attacked with "fireballs" with "fire strike".
Finally, this shows that Beskar was elsewhere during all of the Samus kills. It also shows he has a cover role.
Beskar is NOT Samus. What he is, is Princess Peach. What alignment he is, he claims to be Hero, but I have doubts.
Now, I still have some doubts that Winston stole "plasma cannon" from Beskar. That's why Beskar called bull, because although the accusation was close, it was also off; off enough to sound like a lie, so he asked for the goods, and Winston stalled. Beskar's ability does not sound at all like "plasma cannon". Why the name would change in Winston's hands, is unknown.
I'm not sure exactly what is going on. But, there is enough to cast doubt on Winston. Beskar is another story.
I know for sure he's not Samus. The proof is in the write-ups.
My theories on him are twofold:
1. He's Samus' accomplice; Samus' "hunter" word is also in Bold Red. However, only Beskar's character talks, and in bold Red.
2. He's something else he claimed to be, which has a reason for a cover role. Peach/Jill Valentine being third party would explain a lot.
If Winston is mafia, I believe that he's gunning for Beskar pretty hard because of "Mafia Fratricide" as Tincow put it. He believes Beskar is mafia, very much so.
I tend to think that Winston is either mafia himself, or he's going to be mafia via recruitment; I find it hard to believe he's Samus if Samus is in the writeups killing. He could be Samus' accomplice, but that means Beskar is innocent, because Beskar could only be Samus' accomplice. He cannot be Pikachu or any other visible non-Samus accomplice and his color is all wrong.
So, if Winston flips Samus mafia, Beskar is innocent.
If Winston flips Dark Samus mafia, Beskar is either third party or Samus mafia.
If Winston flips innocent, he was indeed recruitable and an eventual threat, but the real threat is elsewhere.
Beskar is not Samus. I do believe his protection at night should be removed, and for now, given to Seon.
You decide what you want to do with this information.
I believe we can gain a lot of information by killing, or investigating, mister Winston. But he doesn't want to cooperate, even when he might be able to help us. I am skeptical he's REALLY town, but man, if he would just stop being such a stubborn sam, we could get some **** done.
No, I'm revealing tons of juicy info that you will indeed find useful.
There is still reason to suspect Winston, because of what's been happening. But I, for one, would be willing to let Winston live to test him out. If only he would GO INACTIVE LIKE I ASKED.
Done and done. :bow:
Did you seriously just claim that the red eye killer is pro-town?
Nah, third party probably, but given how Beskar is squirming under pressure, I admit there's a very real possibility he's Samus-ALIGNED.
In fact, if Beskar does not tell me who his partner is, I'm going to suggest that's what he is.
But I am still trying to wrench workable information out of Winston. I have all the time in the world to take one suspect and hammer it against another suspect. There will be blood, and it will likely be mafia blood.
You're saying he killed reenk and me? WHY ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT THIS.
DEAD. NOW.
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LOL Beskar killed Sasaki!!!!!!
What a day! ahhahahahaha