Visor's Small Mafia Game [Concluded]

Looking at other universes was what got me in trouble on day three. I've been saying Newyn/Khaan all along and I'm reluctant to second-guess myself again.

I did look at El Barto's day three catch-up while I was compiling votes. Feel free to take a look yourself, but it felt good tone-wise. El Barto's been on the right side of wagons when he's been on them and IIRC was the first person to vote Pizza back on day two.

I don't think Newyn and El Barto are w/w -- that "howsabout BSmith or ElBarto tomorrow guys" with Pizza on the brink of lynch looked way too sincere an effort for me.

The problem I see is that Khaan-Newyn has become much less likely. Khaan would have been better served making no vote yesterday - what happened to the 4-posts rule anyway? - than voting you. If he is scum and not partners with you, that's a terrible move.

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was the first person to vote Pizza back on day two.

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Very briefly. He also voted Stork for a short period. If null, then it's just further screwing around and/or a vote on the recent sub for its own sake. If scum, then just to register activity against the subbed partner (replacing Wytch, who posted all fluff in her time other than to read DP101 as "most villa"!)

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

The problem I see is that Khaan-Newyn has become much less likely. Khaan would have been better served making no vote yesterday - what happened to the 4-posts rule anyway? - than voting you. If he is scum and not partners with you, that's a terrible move.



Very briefly. He also voted Stork for a short period. If null, then it's just further screwing around and/or a vote on the recent sub for its own sake. If scum, then just to register activity against the subbed partner (replacing Wytch, who posted all fluff in her time other than to read DP101 as "most villa"!)

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If you want to vote El Barto I will vote with you there, too. I might not like it, but I have no choice. El Barto will surely vote against you, and of the two of you, I'll take you.

I do have Newyn over Khaan in my own personal ScumoDex for a reason, but we're way into WIFOM here. There's no reason for you to be alive if Khaan is scum. There's no reason for me to be alive if Newyn is. Unless they thought that our deaths would lead automatically to votes on our top suspects and decided that making us second-guess ourselves was the better option. I don't know. I don't know why scum Khaan votes in Pizza's favor yesterday with no comment. Newyn's got himself set up to do so based on his vote at end of day three, so that's not a problem. El Barto was happily off wagon on day three -- his vote sucks, I'm banking everything on tone.

Why do you have Newyn-ElBarto as an option but not Khaan-ElBarto? Is there evidence somewhere?

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Why do you have Newyn-ElBarto as an option but not Khaan-ElBarto? Is there evidence somewhere?

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I was speaking from the Khaan-town scenario: two of Newyn-Renata-Bart. I didn't yet insert full considerations for you.

Can you link the Bart post you have in mind? I'm not sure what to look for.

I don't think Newyn and Pizza ever directly address each other, the whole game. Even when Pizza does his scummy little monologue on Newyn's mafia talents, Newyn says nothing. Same might be true of GH/Khaan and Pizza,but I don't remember GH's contributions as well. I know Pizza and El Barto spoke to each other at least once. Will find.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

I was speaking from the Khaan-town scenario: two of Newyn-Renata-Bart. I didn't yet insert full considerations for you.

Can you link the Bart post you have in mind? I'm not sure what to look for.

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Oh right. Which post are you talking about? His vote for you, or something else?

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I know Pizza and El Barto spoke to each other at least once.

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Most of yesterday was them riffing off each other; before, that, a few posts of Pizza being dismissive toward Bart.

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Oh right. Which post are you talking about? His vote for you, or something else?

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When you referred to a "catch-up post" while you were compiling votes.

Oh, not a post but posts. I'll get them, be right back.

I'm still having trouble with multiquote. It starts here and goes for his next ten posts. Khaan and Pizza are both under pressure at this point I believe.

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Originally Posted by El Barto

It's just a four-letter word.

‘Get off it.’ :martass:



:stare:

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Vote: Renata

:knight:

Hi Khaan. I like your little knight.

:norway:
:on_yell:

:skull:



:charge:
:quiet:
:embarassed:

Why did you post a Norwegian flag, Khaan? To symbolize your allegiance to Pizza?

Trolling aside, do you not have anything to say for yourself?

Norwegian Pizza spew dead, Khaan quiet quite embarrassed?

!

:charge:
:quiet:


:norway:
:argue:
:england:
:driver:

He's saying he's been silenced, I think. Is that the Danish flag?

Come on, Monty, look at those posts of El Barto's.

Khaan quiet. Norway England argue - driver?

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He's saying he's been silenced, I think.

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Then he wouldn't be posting at all, surely.

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Come on, Monty, look at those posts of El Barto's.

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I don't see anything notable about the tone, which is consistent with his other posts. At that point the count increased, as he seemingly made up for lost time on D1-2, when his presence had been barely top-10.

Khaan and Pizza are both under pressure when he posts. His first comment of note is to ask me why I moved my vote off Pizza. He follows up with brief, fluent reads on Al Sips, ATPG and I think novice, complete with post numbers he must have had to go look for. The vote on you is the only shitty thing about it, and even that requires me to assume you're town. My meta on El Barto is mostly five years out of date, and I can't tell the difference between unhelpful townie and scum townie El Barto anyway, but is that sequence in his scum range? It reminds me of flashes I saw during the Sherlock mafia game I followed, in which he was town tracker.

Ugh this is painful.

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complete with post numbers he must have had to go look for.

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:/

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but is that sequence in his scum range?

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I don't know, he might be more aloof as scum. On the other hand, for apparent personal reasons he only shows up in this game the same few hours every day. I don't think his tone, certainly not meta-tone, is going to mark him as scum or town in this game.

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Originally Posted by Renata

He's saying he's been silenced, I think. Is that the Danish flag?

Come on, Monty, look at those posts of El Barto's.

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:wall:



:wizard:
:charge:
:rtwno:



:norway: :hmg:

:belly: :hmg:

The only part I got is shooting Norway/Pizza and shooting lady = Renata?

What is wizard dragon? Post thumbs-up if that's referring to a role affecting you, Khaan.

:shrug:

I have a really hard time believing in the honesty of anyone who's voting me at this point, even if Khaan looked townie otherwise. There is no f-ing way I can post like this as scum. The votes, sure, that's the easy part. It's everything else. I mean, I was pissed off when Pizza started pulling that 'stop with the BS, Renata' crap on me, and it showed, even though I didn't want it to.

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Originally Posted by Renata

I have a really hard time believing in the honesty of anyone who's voting me at this point, even if Khaan looked townie otherwise. There is no f-ing way I can post like this as scum. The votes, sure, that's the easy part. It's everything else. I mean, I was pissed off when Pizza started pulling that 'stop with the BS, Renata' crap on me, and it showed, even though I didn't want it to.

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:belly:
:soapbox:
:coffeenews:

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Originally Posted by Renata

I have a really hard time believing in the honesty of anyone who's voting me at this point, even if Khaan looked townie otherwise. There is no f-ing way I can post like this as scum. The votes, sure, that's the easy part. It's everything else. I mean, I was pissed off when Pizza started pulling that 'stop with the BS, Renata' crap on me, and it showed, even though I didn't want it to.

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:wine: :charge:

You guys are out to personally torture me, aren't you.

He's saying he isn't impressed.

Enough with the charades. If you won't speak English outright, at least follow a letter-substitution code.

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

He's saying he isn't impressed.

Enough with the charades. If you won't speak English outright, at least follow a letter-substitution code.

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:no:

:charge: :skull:

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Originally Posted by Renata

You guys are out to personally torture me, aren't you.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SDGlDo0Lng

:) Monty.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Waiting for El Barto to show up and vote Monty and ruin my life.

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Seriously? Well then, vote: Montmorency. I was right before and I am right today as well.

But also seriously.

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Originally Posted by seireikhaan

Vote: Renata

:knight:

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:stare: vote: seireikhaan

You about gave me a heart attack there, Mr Barto. I thought I was going to have to argue with you and I'm about all out of argue.

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Originally Posted by El Barto

But also seriously.

:stare: vote: seireikhaan

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:inquisitive:


:belly:
:norway:
:thwack:
:driver:

Look, for the record, as I posted a gazillion times yesterday, it's atpg plus Monty plus Newyn or seireikhaan (both have voted to save pizza, both have been faffing about). Now, four is too much, people somehow seem completely disinclined to vote for Monty, so it's Newyn or 'khaan. Your cardiac problems notwithstanding, we must vote within those three people to win.

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Originally Posted by seireikhaan

:thwack:

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Oh no you bloody didn't.

btw I was more willing to lynch Newyn than 'khaan (failing to lynch Monty, of course) until the latter a) voted Renata and then b) fish-slapped me. Grrrr.

I'd still rather vote Newyn myself. You, me and BSmith would make three, but we'd need a fourth to get the lynch out of rand. Monty doesn't seem inclined, unless he comes down on the you/Newyn camp at some point as being a likely idea. Newyn obviously isn't going to go for it. Khaan seems to be happy voting for me and is my top pick for Newyn's scumbuddy anyway, so I could hardly trust him.

I'm confused why you would go with Khaan if you think Monty is for sure wolf and is voting for Khaan. You seem to be accepting you could be wrong about Monty, but that's not what you're saying.

Oh, I completely missed Monty's vote on Khaan.

I think Monty bussed pizza yesterday, tbh, (I'm still sure it's him plus EITHER Newyn OR 'khaan) so that's not much of a tell. Right now it's 3-1 in his favour so at best you go to RNG provided Monty somehow busses 'khaan who'll flip scum… which wouldn't make sense unless they have another two kills or something like that, so we'd better vote Newyn because Monty is not voting Newyn and Newyn voted to save atpg twice while 'khaan only did it once. Noticed how everyone shut up, almost as if askthepizzascum had said ‘let's eat the lynch’. Maybe they were hoping for another last-minute switch and Newyn was really gullible (twice?).

OK, my head hurts.

The paranoia is horrible right now.

Argh, I posted before time.
At this point I am sure that, if we forced them to, 'khaan and Newyn would vote each other. Monty votes one and we vote the other. Of course, Monty will play mind games with us and switch his vote. Or not. >_<

Khaan did vote to save ATPG twice. He was on the Al Sips wagon as well, in fact he started it.

Both twice…? Let's see, Newyn twice, including his EOD switch, 'khaan yesterday and when else? ach, there are no links from Visor to his updates, but if you say he was there I'll take your word for it. That's 2-2 instead of 2-1 as I thought. I still want to see what the hell shenanigans Monty pulls.

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Originally Posted by El Barto

Argh, I posted before time.
At this point I am sure that, if we forced them to, 'khaan and Newyn would vote each other. Monty votes one and we vote the other. Of course, Monty will play mind games with us and switch his vote. Or not. >_<

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Townies can't force suspects to vote each other at LYLO. I mean I guess presumably 3 townies voting together could force them to bus or face a flip that increases their risk at final 4. But if it's not 3 townies there's no chance. I want to believe you and Monty (and BSmith) are all townies and therefore we can't go wrong, but I am so freaking paranoid.

I need a break. I'll be back this evening.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Townies can't force suspects to vote each other at LYLO. I mean I guess presumably 3 townies voting together could force them to bus or face a flip that increases their risk at final 4. But if it's not 3 townies there's no chance. I want to believe you and Monty (and BSmith) are all townies and therefore we can't go wrong, but I am so freaking paranoid.

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You and BSmith, practically sure (unless I've completely misread the game), me, certainly (obviously), that's three. Monty's scum. One of Newyn and 'khaan is scum. If we can come in and vote tomorrow then we're practically set. The other scum is exposed, game, set, match.

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Originally Posted by Renata

I need a break. I'll be back this evening.

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Ep, missed this. See you later then.

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Originally Posted by El Barto

btw I was more willing to lynch Newyn than 'khaan (failing to lynch Monty, of course) until the latter a) voted Renata and then b) fish-slapped me. Grrrr.

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:no:

!

:belly:
Attachment 19248
:norway:

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Originally Posted by El Barto

Argh, I posted before time.
At this point I am sure that, if we forced them to, 'khaan and Newyn would vote each other. Monty votes one and we vote the other. Of course, Monty will play mind games with us and switch his vote. Or not. >_<

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This is a good way to have town running in circles while mafia dictate the lynch.

It's difficult to imagine a townie proposing this sort of logic at endgame.

Would you rather we lynched Newyn, 'khaan?

vote: Newyn

C'mon, here's your chance to prove to Renata that you're not the scummo and we all vote Newyn. This will last until I'm done watching Miraculous Ladybug.

Well, today's episode is over, so let's go back to vote: seireikhaan

Pizza has taught you well.

Vote: seireikhaan
I think Pizza bussed like hell yesterday to bring Renata completely out of the suspicion list as he knew he was going down but if Renata's scum, we're not winning this anyways since he has the rest of town pocketed.
None of you remaining players really know me but if I was scum, I'd never have made that switch to save Pizza unless it literally wins the game right there.

You're mentioning the fact that he once posted his one-hour only let's all vote Monty? He wouldn't have bussed you, Montscumency. Not really, and you know it. He would have just -regreftully and accidentally of course- mislynched as amny townies of possible. I was right about him and I was right about you. Wanna switch votes, Ren, to deprive Monty of his allies? I suppose I'll be back later tonight; if not, tomorrow (thank Visor for the lack of hammers).

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Originally Posted by Newyn

I think Pizza bussed like hell yesterday to bring Renata completely out of the suspicion list as he knew he was going down but if Renata's scum, we're not winning this anyways since he has the rest of town pocketed.

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Where the hell are you getting that Renata's scum?

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Originally Posted by El Barto

You're mentioning the fact that he once posted his one-hour only let's all vote Monty? He wouldn't have bussed you, Montscumency. Not really, and you know it. He would have just -regreftully and accidentally of course- mislynched as amny townies of possible. I was right about him and I was right about you. Wanna switch votes, Ren, to deprive Monty of his allies? I suppose I'll be back later tonight; if not, tomorrow (thank Visor for the lack of hammers).

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I'm not sure what you're even talking about in this comment. As for what I was saying, I notice that you're faffing around with votes and reasoning in a way reminiscent of Pizza.

Monty, every time I accuse you of being scum you either ignore it (just as atpg did) or copy-paste ‘Get off it’ into your posts. Now it seems that you are resorting to the slightly more advanced ‘NO U’ tactic. I accuse your scumpartners of being scum and faffing about and then you say now, El Barto is faffing about. Seriously, man. What gives?

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Monty, every time I accuse you of being scum you either ignore it (just as atpg did) or copy-paste ‘Get off it’ into your posts.

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Not since Day 2. As for your accusation, you don't really have one beyond "you're scum".

Do I have to restate every post I made regarding you?

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Do I have to restate every post I made regarding you?

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You already have, I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by El Barto

Where the hell are you getting that Renata's scum?

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Look at my posts, I havn't felt good about him for a long time and he was sort of subtly nudging Atheotes to save Pizza at eod when I made my biggest mistake this game.

That said, if he's scum, we're losing today not tomorrow since I see no world where he is scum with khaan.

Both of you -- Monty and El Barto -- should really be switching to Newyn right now. El Barto's voting for the guy who according to his logic would have to have been bussing his partner the whole game including up to now. Which OK, fine, but the reasoning isn't really there. It should make more sense to go with Newyn. And Monty's only possible scum team that doesn't include Newyn is the one that includes me and El Barto -- for him to believe that he'd have to believe I'm scum -- might as well vote with Khaan in that event because then you don't have to convince Khaan to switch. But I don't think Monty really believes I'm scum.

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Originally Posted by Newyn

Look at my posts, I havn't felt good about him for a long time and he was sort of subtly nudging Atheotes to save Pizza at eod when I made my biggest mistake this game.

That said, if he's scum, we're losing today not tomorrow since I see no world where he is scum with khaan.

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I'm female, btw.

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Originally Posted by Renata

And Monty's only possible scum team that doesn't include Newyn is the one that includes me and El Barto -- for him to believe that he'd have to believe I'm scum -- might as well vote with Khaan in that event because then you don't have to convince Khaan to switch.

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It could be Khaan-Renata, sure enough. :/

Go back and look at me twisting novice's arm to get him to vote Khaan with me on day three. It's not me and Khaan.

Under these circumstances you may just get your wish.

If El Barto and BSmith vote with you, and the rest stay their course, then I won't vote to tie you with Newyn.

I'm not sure I understand.

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Originally Posted by Renata

Go back and look at me twisting novice's arm to get him to vote Khaan with me on day three. It's not me and Khaan.

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I agree with Renata here. It's never her + Khaan unless they agreed beforehand to a bus the day khaan tied to gain late game credit for Renata.
Which is why I think either lynch today probably loses the game but I can't do much about that since if Renata didn't get lynched yesterday with a confirmed scum on her, she ain't getting lynched today.

I would need your actual vote for Newyn, not just you not voting for me. Are you offering that?

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Go back and look at me twisting novice's arm to get him to vote Khaan with me on day three.

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What I have to say, as we should all be aware of by now, is with Pizza as scum don (not a role claim), we don't even need bussing as a factor for why you might temporarily wagon against your partner.

If you aren't counted, then its Khaan-Bart-Newyn, and I would not want to lynch Bart today just because he's a common denominator amongst higher suspects.

Bart-Newyn
Renata-Newyn
Khaan-Newyn

All are weakened at the moment. At their expense, non-Newyn teams rise to the fore. I'm doubting now that Newyn is scum singularly or in combination, so Khaan is the superior candidate; I see him as scum individually, and in multiple teams.

Fine, you know what? Screw Barto.

Unvote: Khaan

Vote: Newyn

OK. I can't quite follow your reasoning, but I'm not going to argue.

vote: Newyn

BSmith, when you get here, please say if you'll be available near end of day (which is 37 hrs from now).

I'm basically taking the easy way out: Pizza carried his team and it really is the most straightforward arrangement for his partners. I take a hard bet that you aren't scum with Bart, who maybe just hasn't made much commitment this time around.

Every time I think about the vote going for one of those three I get paranoid about it actually being the other two. This is what sucks about mafia when too many people don't fully play the game of interactions and talk. You're left with nothing to go on. I mean, this is what there is for El Barto reads coming from Khaan:

"El Barto: Like I can read this guy either. Next. "

How do you do anything with that? But maybe I'd feel like this anyway.

On the plus side, this is a masterpiece.

"Newyn: Gave a weird read on the first page which he didn't follow on, and kinda lazed into a DP vote by the end of D1. Low-ish on activity. On the surface, seems scummy, but the reads cannot have been that serious so early in the first day, which makes me suspicious of those latching onto this case. Was correct in his argument with Stork about night choice kill and the wolf discussion. Decent town lean. "