true, its just there for referense (we have 12 turns to go), and yeah our capitol is babylon. I will put that on there.
I wonder which royal army is going to hit us first?
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true, its just there for referense (we have 12 turns to go), and yeah our capitol is babylon. I will put that on there.
I wonder which royal army is going to hit us first?
lol see this coming? you buggers are the first of many revolts.
Alright, seceding on my first turn!
LET US FINISH WITH PTOLEMY YOU BASTARDS!
damnit you buggers pick the worst times...
Treacherous bastards. Have you no honour?! :brood:
Oh, and yeah, everyone is right: you're not independent rulers yet, you're just rebels, which beyond what he says means you can't call yourselves "Kingdom of the Crescent" yet. Your land is simply "rebel realm".
... and you can't recruit or build anything. Bwahahahaha!
and how is the time that rebels can't build/recruit stuff calculated? perhaps if Ibn is here, he might explain how it's calculated, inless he already told CDF.
It's the declarer's IG influence. That's CDf's character who has 0 influence, so that's 8 turns. Hah!
By the way, have you actually captured the settlements you claim?
actually, we have a general in all the cities we claim, so yes.
and TCV is right, but apparently the time is 12 turns now.
and I just realized you have to change the capitol now! thats going to go over REAL WELL with the cities in the far west and far east, (public orders already low, I can feel the ramifications of this are going to be huge)
and TCV, I dont need any recruitment or constructions to take you down! I learned a few tricks as chancellor, including. stuff you cities full of enough soldiers to take out a royal army and basileus in one shot! (fine, we are just "Rebel Realm", make me waste all the effort I put into that thread......)
ohh and in the council I was expecting more impotent rage, whats wrong TCV saving it for when your armies dead! :clown:
Something tells me that rage wouldn't go over well with everyone. It would be too good of an excuse... And aside from moving the capital, where does the council actually take place? Presumably in the capital, so maybe it should be moved?
takes place in antioch. I suggest we don't move the captiol till they like 6 turns or something. Gives us a chance to try and take it back.
dont worry TCV cunobelinus will probably stand with you for awhile still. You really havent been a tyrant... yet.
the whole thing is ridiculous as far has Sarpedons power hungry. the "rebel" side has no concept of the word King or Tyrant or what the Arche itself was. We live in a bureaucracy under a King, most of the time...a God King. So to say our voice isn't being heard is exactly right, we are all simply advisers and minions to the Basileus. We accept our place in royalty, middle class, or lower class and we do what is best for the Arche as well as personal gain. When i say we i mean of course our avatars. So anyway, i just think the whole thing is a tad anti-roleplay like.
edit: dont mistake the AS for a democracy of any sort, nor a republic.
yeah but it was either this or have absolutely nothing happen. honestly I could not think of what else to do (Patrokles is loyal and unselfish, so what the heck was I supposed to have his reasoning be?). I was bored and this is the result! :clown:, maybe it only makes sense to me... honestly I dont really know....
ya...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cultured Drizzt fan
"there was a dream that was once the Arche Selukeia... It shall be realized. These were the wishes of a dying man" *thump*
Lol! But the dream just happened to be of a monarchy, and I didn't kill my father! :grin:
... which reminds me of something I've wanted to incorporate ever since Ibn made me his heir: an assassination system. The problem is I don't know how to make it work. Perhaps we can take a look at the RPGs (no, not rocket propelled grenades, you warmongering bastards!) and go with a die roll of some sort.
Like, you send a PM to the GM telling him who you want attempt to assassinate. The GM then rolls two die and if it succeeds, the target dies. If it doesn't succeeds, he rolls one dice (or two, but I suggest one) to see if the assassin reveals who sent him.
If that system is adopted, we just need to decide how likely a roll should be to succeed. If we do it with two die for the first and one die for the second as I proposed, the possible outcomes would be these:
Roll 1: 2-12
Roll 2: 1-6
I'm thinking in the first roll we should normally have 2-8 mean the assassination fails. If my probability calculation is correct (please, challenge me on that!), it should be about a 36% chance of success. Or we could have 2-9 mean it fails, making it a 27% chance of success.
For the second roll, perhaps we have it like 1-2 means he gets away/dies before talking, 3-4 means the GM can decide whether he dies/gets away or supplies false information, and 5-6 mean he reveals the truth. Again, probability...
No Information: 33-66%
False Information: 0-33%
True Information: 33%
(The precise probability for NI and FI depends on the GM at a case-to-case level.)
The victim of the attempt would not know the actual result of that second roll, so he wouldn't know whether he could trust the information he got (if any) or not.
If the assassination attempt fails, only the victim shall receive the information (if any). He can then decide to make it public, to keep it secret, or only tell a select few - and he can of course choose to lie about it completely. For example, he can say it was revealed to him that X did it even though the assassin escaped.
We can also have it so that IG traits that increase or lower personal security matter, if we can figure out a good and balanced way to implement that. Perhaps have like a fixed sum like a character that has 3 or higher overall personal security score ("PSS") mean an attempt to assassinate him would have the 27% chance of success (2-9 = fail), a "neutral" PSS (where the PSS is between -2 and 2) have a 36% chance of success (2-8 = fail), and a -3 PSS or lower would have a 46% chance of success (2-7 = fail).
I hope I have explained it sufficiently. What are your thoughts about this? Do you have a better system, or do you have an opinion on mine? I will suggest it in this Council Session if we can come up with a good way to do it (or this way is accepted). I also think that this is something that even the rebels should be allowed to vote on, even though the rules forbid it.
I rather like the idea. Although you do realise this means that now (or as soon as you implement this) someone is going to try and assasinate you, right?
or he might assassinate one of us rebels...:oops:
Of course. I want it in because it adds another political aspect of the game, and since I missed it when I wasn't the king, I'm not going to be hypocritical and rob you guys of that as well. ~;)
However, I think we should have a limit on how often you can do it, and add extra protection to the Basileus (no, this really isn't self-serving ~;p), the Kleronomos Basileios and the satraps, as they would have a tighter security for them. Perhaps the PSS is enough for the B and KB, but satraps don't get any for it, right? They should have some addition then, but it should be lesser than both that of the B and KB.
IIRC in LotR there was an assassination system, right? How did they do it? I remember something like that vaguely, from a poll that I think limited so that you couldn't try to assassinate someone you were actively fighting (that is, were at war against). Perhaps we should have it like that as well.
I am cool with it, sounds intresting.
and guys is my rebellion that illogical? I would like to know, cause I dont want to seem cheap. I just felt that trying to justify it would be better than outright just saying I wanted power (or OOC to just shake things up, we were all talking about rebellions ande it looked like no one else was going to take advantage of it)
We all know you were hungry for power! Stop trying to justify it.
In my eyes it makes sense, upstart chancellor of the Empire, sees his chance at becoming big. That's how history will see it.
yeah, but the masses dont know that. Ever new dynasty in history has gained support by condemning the one before it as corrupt and vile. look at china, and the mandate of heaven. it just didnt make sense for me to just expect the babylonians to help me unless I stirred up revolutionary sentiments. mehhh, maybe I was just really tired when I thought this entire things up..... honestly I am running on empty right now....
Naturally. Can you think of anyone who took power through revolution and didn't claim a moral right beyond "I can, so I will"? It's not so much poor RP unless you prior to this role-played him to be loyal. The traits only dictate your RP to the extent that you allow them to.
Remember, though: the offer of a full pardon if you surrender may not be available forever. :devilish:
I was kind of trying to show a build up of rebellous thoughts in my stories, but I probably failed :sweatdrop:, not the best writer, even If I like doing it.
and sorry, but I want to ride this out, I like the whole kingdom idea and I want to see how it ends. if I die then so what, I will have tried to accomplish something, I have been building up to this for a while, so lets see how it ends! I want a huge climactic battle, not some pardon.
well if you die quickly, you can have my son as your next avatar.
I am not sure if thats an insulting or touching.... :clown:, but thanks I may just take you up on that. although I sincerly hope I am able to survive through this civil war, I think the diplomacy that will go on if we survive will be really intresting, if we manage to get a peace treaty on our terms then it will present the Arche with the need to find a way to send troops east and west, through our land, either that or build up a navy in the area. it should be fun. and I think as long as my fellow rebels dont go turncoat we have a chance of actualy living through this, just need a plan, (hint, hint, nudge, nudge, guys I want ideas darn it! :clown: )
try and get the lydian satrap to rebel. Perhaps A galatian large rebellion lead by a well known celtic general? *rolls eyes*
The above has now been implemented.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
No, we never did anything like that. One of the most basic rules I've learned from WotS/KotR/LotR is that it's rarely a good idea to allow the death of an avatar without giving the player who controls that avatar the ability to prevent it in some manner. There's a balance between realism and entertainment, and often that line is crossed when it comes to avatar death. Given the amount of effort people put into developing their avatars, it can be extremely unwelcome to have that avatar killed of by a mechanism that was entirely out of your control.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
That said, I think this is the thing you were referring to. It's a limited type of assassination that gives people methods to harm other avatars without actually killing them (for the reason listed above). Feel free to poach whatever you want. Any rules I write of any kind for any Throne Room game should be considered 'open source'.
CDF when i'm home tomorrow, I'll look at the save and come up with a plan dont worry ;-)
As for justification of our rebellion... we only 'justify' our action to appease the common men. They need these things in order for them to support us.
Us noblemen, know better in that we ALL know this is about power only. So dont worry about RP, it's fine.
I just joined because I like mischief and to create havoc.
Every game hs builders and destroyers.. I'm the latter ;-)
Good point, TC, and you're right about that hashashin thing: that's exactly what I was thinking about. However, if everyone agree with my suggestion, then everyone accept that it can happen to his, err, their character as well. If people don't like the idea, then we could change "kill" to something less dramatic like you apparently had it.
However, we should probably reduce the likelyhood of a kill even if it pass, and I think I have thought out a way.
If the initial roll is successful, another dice roll will be made to see if it actually kills the victim. If the result is 1-5, the character will be wounded and cannot move IG for as many turns as the number of the dice. Only if that dice roll gives a 6 will the character die.
So, lets say that I order an assassination attempt on "Karl Gustav" and the initial, 2 die roll yields 5+6 = 11, then it is a success and continues to step 2 with a new, 1 die roll. The roll is 5, so "Karl Gustav" can't move his character in game for 5 turns.
This is just a suggestion: we can simply make it 1-3 gives 2 turns, 4-5 4 turns, while 6 kills or something like that. Or we can do it completely differently. ~;p
We should also make it so that you can only ask for x assassinations in y turns (perhaps dependant on rank and/or influence?) and a character can also be a victim of max z assassination attempts per n turns.
We can (and should) of course also include the LotR-type "assassinations" as well.
hmm..I don't really like the idea that our characters could die without ourselves having any influence in the process (although that's the whole point of assassination). I would prefer for example if their ancillary was stolen, or they are given a train IG like "confined to bed" to give him disadvantages in movement.
and also there may be a problem of players over-using the assassination system, but this could be moderated by the GM.
you did ask for 'everyone's opinion.
yeah everyone and Tincow have a point, it would kind of stink to just come on one day and find out you had five assasionation attempts on you and one finally slipped through.... maybe the limited one would work better.
and if anyone who is active could just put a post saying so that would help me a lot, I plan on updating the library in a couple of days and need to know who is still here.
and mini, I like to think of myself as a builder, I just use the shattered ramains of the former regime as my building materials!
I think it'd be bloody annoying to come on one day and have someone try one time and have your precious character dead. especially if your character is watchful or something.
I would also not be in favor of an assassination system. It would make far many more people mad then it would make happy. But I'm all for sabotaging units/buildings/retinue. Might spice things up a bit.
indeed. anyone seen kingsnake around lately? I'm contemplating taking the satrapal army myself and finishing off the ptolemy. He would have done it himself already i figured.
so TCV, are you going to extend the council session? it seems like you guys haven't actually got a plan for dealing with the rebellion. which was the point of calling a Emergency council session.
Who says we haven't? :devilish:
ooooohhhh good point, you all could be having a secret council behind my back. :clown: I cant wait to see how this works out.
nice now I am completely of balance, I can only imagine your horrifying plan for me.
Well, you have no representative in the Council, nor are you yourself there, so you can IG have no idea of what was said there, unless you have some rat left - like you were in BtSH.
As for my plans for you... hehehe... you may not wish to know, but have you seen the show Dexter? It's worse than anything he could ever do. :evilgrin:
true, good point. I was thinking all of that as I read the council thread but I realized I had already though of most of your possible attack routes. and knowing what you were going to do wouldnt change my defense plan one bit, (or it wouldnt if we even knew our defense plan....)
and I am not sure if the rat part was a joke or not, sounded kind of hostile. Sextvs actually really respected Pvblivs, next to Cotta you were a shining example of the republic.
I know the premise of the show, but I still know no fear! victory!!!! or Retreat! (I was going to say death, but then I realized some of my fellow rebels may not appreciate the thought of their own deaths... a backstab could really kill us)
Don't worry, it was a joke. But seriously, you must see Dexter, it's definitely my favourite show right now. Can't wait for the next season to start...
Ah well, I'm off to bed now. G'night.
good to know, I would watch it, but hell MY DVR is so full Right now I cant tape a thing, I already have far to many shows to watch... well good night TCV.
I thought that I will share this so that there wouldn't be any confusions on how things should be handled. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn-Khaldun
Something just struck me. Do we have a policy regarding the rebel's use of agents, particularly assassins? Assuming they achieve Independent Kingdom status, I don't see why they couldn't train a bunch of assassins and kill us all :sweatdrop:, except that it wouldn't be very covert because we could see the agents coming. This might be a moot point because I can't remember if a factions assassins can kill their own generals, but clarification would be appreciated.
I think we should have a poll on the assassination thing.
Yes, you may lose your character... boohoohoo. Personally, if my character's gets a second smile, courtesy of one of my peers, i'm not going to grab my marbles and leave. Yes, I worked hard to build that character... not like it's a bloody masterpiece anyone's going to remember. It's a game, this is not Rodin's Thinker I'm working on. But the guy responsible better look out, his portrait'll be in black and white as soon as I have the resources.
If your character kicks the bucket, you'll automatically get another one, anyway. Yes, you'll lose the traits, it doesn't take years to get them back (not real ones anyway).
So I propose a poll.
no you cant assasinate your own generals, so yeah moot point.
You can't assasinate them as per game mechanisms, but with what TCV suggested you could have them otherwise terminated... removed from the scene, as it were.
Like you kill RBG's, for example. Am I right?
I was responding more to this. It would be completely ok for TCV to propose a rule change and have us all vote on it. And if enough people wanted to have assasinations like that then its fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Incitatus
I think people are hesitent because it has a very high chance for to be abused, like I said, it would stink to come online and learn that you just had 10 assasination attempts on your life, and they finally suceeded. Its a touchy subject, many people get very attached to their characters. so if you guys want that kind of system then hold a vote on it. I would personally prefer one similar to LotR, though one that had a very small chance of killing the avatar too would not be overdoing it.
ohh and I just got screenshots for the library, will get it done in a few days. I am going on a camping trip to west point tomorrow though and wont be back for a day or two so I wont be online obviously. (mini if you could move our armies that would be great)
We could easily make it so that you'd have to have been inactive for a long time to "just come back and see you've had 10 assassination attempts on you". Like I suggested, we could make it so that you could only be the target of 1 attempt/8 turns, and that you can only order 1 attempt/12 turns or whatever. We could fine tune it to best effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cultured Drizzt fan
Could someone do me a favour, though, and take a picture so you see the whole family tree, like Ibn did for the library? I can't see the whole tree myself, so I'd appreciate some help.
If the chances of killing an avatar stay low then it should be ok. If lower ranks have 1 attempts per full Chancellor term and higher ranks 2 then this should eliminate these "just come back and see you've had 10 assassination attempts on you" moments. Unsuccessful attempts should affect characters also (perhaps they can not be moved 1-2 turns because character is trying to find other assassins who could want to kill him).Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
This is just a suggestion but perhaps instead of one huuuge family tree we could have only one small with Basileus and his family and the second one with Heirs family. It took a looong time to put together that FT that you can see in the Library at the moment(there is no in-game button that could do it like that unfortunately)!
so what are we going to do about the capital? although I am quite happy to allow all the arches administrators enterance to our little "realm" (leavings another matter however)
Capital should be moved now. This will cause a lot of problems in east. Also, capital can be moved but Sarpedon must be present in that city.
If people wanted to spice up this game then they have succeeded. :yes:Quote:
(10) Can move the Capital at any time, as long as the new Capital is controlled by the Basileus.
After the capital is moved by TCV then whoever(currently MerlinusCDXX) ends the turns should pay attention to towns that might rebel to Eleutheroi. They may cause CTD but they don't have to. Although, I think you all know that.
Good point, I-K, but I think I have a decent "tax margin" on most places east to prevent ctd-rebellions. But, for the love o' the gods, try to convince TCV to go to Edessa and make it the Capitol, cause if I have to severely lower taxes everywhere East of Susa, we r gonna be BROKE, lol.
Do I really have to be present in the city? Do I not control the settlements neither the rebels nor the satraps own well enough?
If not, you have no choice but to change it to Antiocheia for now. Please do so for me, because I can't be running away without my army in the middle of a civil war. :sweatdrop:
By the way, I want my hypaspistai trained! Please move them to Alexandreia and do it next time you take the save.
TCV, do you want me to reset the Capitol and send the Hypaspistai off to Alexandreia for retraining? I wasn't sure if you were talkin' to me or I-K. Are you still having the comp problems you mentioned a while ago, and unable to make your moves?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
no hurry for the reply though, since I won't be taking the save for another 12 to 18 hours.
rather strange isn't it? a rebellion is supposed to cause a loss of income, but with around a full stack of units being a 'rebel army', it means the burden of upkeeping it is removed from the normal income, and the rest of the arche gets around 7k more mnai per season, than if there was no rebellion.
not that I don't like it.
The irony is sweet, huh? :mellow:
I can take the save and do moves myself, but not with the computer supposed for it. I'm using my laptop as a backup, and I don't want to take the save when I don't have to because of that. So, well, yes, please do that for me. I should've been more clear about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinusCDXX
Yes, you have to be present.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Celtic Viking
I know this system is not perfect but I just did not know how else I have to solve this money problem( Gah! Money always cause troubles! ).Quote:
Originally Posted by everyone
Just thought that I would point out that it's time for another Council Session. This should give Sarpedon an upper hand in his war against rebels since they can not vote or do anything in Council. They can however make their declarations and give speeches in Agora.
Hey, I-K, I've been kind of off the schedule here for a bit, is it time for the council this turn or in the next few? (need to know how many turns to end before closing the save)
It's this turn - Spring, 248BC
Hey, can anyone upload the WotB mod installer somewhere? I had to re-install my OS and lost the backups I made. The mediafire link is dead.
http://files.filefront.com/WOTB+Modr.../fileinfo.html
this is the one on filefront
nice, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by everyone
uhhhh, I am back. And god am I tired.... think I might sleep a few days, so library might take a while to get done. I now have a much greater respect for USA army officers....
apparently the first year at west point is like hell....
I wish we actually had a declaration, what are we going to say Join the rebellion we have no money and a huge army eating all our income!!!! heh... fun times, fun times...
Hey, if you do it before Monday, could you take screenshots of the family tree? No need to make it into one picture, just so I can see who is where.
yeah actually, as soon as MerlinusCDXX takes the save I will make my moves, take a few pics of the whole family tree (I will try and put it together, but I don't know). and get the library together. all rested up!
CDf - You have to update your Kingdoms finances as well to help Merlinus. I think you haven't done it in this turn.
well, Upkeep hasn't changed, and we don't actually get any money for another 10 turns, so I wasn't sure what to change? or do we get the money, but just cant spend it?
Yes you still get the money what is left after upkeep. You just gather it so that once you can build/recruit then you have the money for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cultured Drizzt fan
Also, in the rules there is this point:
I planned to use Influence for it but since Patrokles didn't had any then I forgot to mention that before.Quote:
The amount of starting money the Rebel will receive will be determined by Ibn-Khaldun.
ohhh, ok will update it then. yeah, my influence kind of stinks, so what do you think the starting treasury should be. I would think having access to the former capitol of the arche would be a plus, but then again I am a biased :clown:.
I would've used: 1 Influence= 2500 mnai
More Influence= more contend people= more money= more soldiers
Sarpedon should hope that Aratos wouldn't turn against him! :clown:
that makes sense, hey Ibn, does destroying buildings add money to rebel treasury?
and how are we going to handle PVP sieges? also during a PVP is it possible to withdraw?
ibn, you would do well to be quiet...
for no reason... *shifty eyes*
note to self, help TCV bomb estonia
Wow how completely unsuspicious :clown:
why dont we just loot some arche cities cdf? ;P
Actually my army is outside of edessa right now, knocking on their doors! (I am not Besieging it yet however, so no battle)
And TCV, will get that family tree to you today, as soon as we finish painting the kitchen.
OK, bit late with it, but here is the tree (split in two parts)
https://img55.imageshack.us/img55/44...ytreepart2.jpg
https://img55.imageshack.us/img55/85...ytreepart3.jpg
Still formatting it, but for now that about it.
Thanks.
By the way, I saw Che: Part One today, and it reminded me of this game and your little rebellion. It really made me love my position as the evil emperor even more. :evilgrin:
hey TCV, I was going to write a story from Liatus's point of view, so is Liatus under house arrest or in the big scary dungeon?